View Full Version : A push for national firearms carry.
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Police are second responders. The first responders are always we, the people, on the scene as events unfold.
The time has come to insist upon robust restoration of our right to defend ourselves, to keep and bear arms when and where arms might be needed in public places, to forestall these serious known threats to our safety.
It is time to press forward for nationally recognized right to carry and honor and respect the plain meaning of the Second Amendment.
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http://www.ammoland.com/2011/01/31/calls-heard-for-national-firearms-carry/
I am sure Senator Lugar will betray us again and vote against this if it comes up.
DaBears_85
02-02-11, 12:01
That would be awesome if it ever came to fruition, seeing how I live in the only state without a CCW law.
If the feds have the right to grant nationwide carry, they have a right to take it away. I'm fine leaving this to the states as was intended. If you don't like your state laws there's 49 others you can try.
If the feds have the right to grant nationwide carry, they have a right to take it away. I'm fine leaving this to the states as was intended. If you don't like your state laws there's 49 others you can try.
That's a cop out, esp when you already LIVE in a state where you can get a CCW. Of course your "fine" with that.
Yeah, in these financial times it's economically feasible to just "sell your house" and move. No.
If we don't hang together, we will surely hang separately.
If the feds have the right to grant nationwide carry, they have a right to take it away. I'm fine leaving this to the states as was intended. If you don't like your state laws there's 49 others you can try.
Correct...until you travel outside that state.
Example: Utah Resident Permit and surrounding states. It is honored in AZ, WY, ID and CO. It is not recognized in CA, NV, or NM.
There is the problem. Of the states listed, CA, NV and NM are the states I would want to be armed in the most.
[QUOTE]Of the states listed, CA, NV and NM are the states I would want to be armed in the most.[/QUOTE
BINGO....
MW
The solution is to force the recognition of state permits across the country similar to the way drivers licenses must be recognized. I believe it has something to do with "Equal Protection" under the Constitution.
Instead of the fed coming up with its own national CCW, go the equal protection route.
Of the states listed, CA, NV and NM are the states I would want to be armed in the most.
MW
It would be very helpful if we could ever get Congress to pass a law to the effect that the 2nd Am allows only very minimal restrictions on CC such as court rooms, airpport, prisons, jails (not federal buildings - ****ers). That would be recognition that there should be no license needed to exercise any constitutional rights. You do not need a license from the government before you can go to church. Why should you need one before you can carry a gun? Religion is much more dangerous than guns as it has been responsible for many more dead bodies through human history than guns. (but let's not get sidetracked on this)
Religion is much more dangerous than guns as it has been responsible for many more dead bodies through human history than guns. (but let's not get sidetracked on this)
That is actually politics in the name of religion.
But, to not get sidetracked, back in 1994 a bunch of us worked up a bill we tried to get introduced. Our local Rep here in Utah did not want to get involved in gun related issues (and he was later defeated) and it never went anywhere but at the time we had a whole crew lined up across the country to work on this if we could get it introduced. It was namely that any federal building that wanted to prohibit firearms had to provide anonymous safe storage facilities. We were calling it the "keep firearms off the street" law...
That's a cop out, esp when you already LIVE in a state where you can get a CCW. Of course your "fine" with that.
Yeah, in these financial times it's economically feasible to just "sell your house" and move. No.
If we don't hang together, we will surely hang separately.
It's not a cop out. If you want change you need to make it happen on a local level and not empower the Fed Gov to stick it's nose in even more areas where it doesn't belong. Whether or not moving to another state is economically feasible is a personal matter and ultimately boils down to how bad you want it. Don't misunderstand me, I think everyone should be able to carry but in accordance with their state/local laws (whether you like them or not).
Correct...until you travel outside that state.
Example: Utah Resident Permit and surrounding states. It is honored in AZ, WY, ID and CO. It is not recognized in CA, NV, or NM.
There is the problem. Of the states listed, CA, NV and NM are the states I would want to be armed in the most.
I choose not to travel to states that don't recognize my CHL.
It's not a cop out. If you want change you need to make it happen on a local level and not empower the Fed Gov to stick it's nose in even more areas where it doesn't belong. Whether or not moving to another state is economically feasible is a personal matter and ultimately boils down to how bad you want it. Don't misunderstand me, I think everyone should be able to carry but in accordance with their state/local laws (whether you like them or not).
I don't run from a fight. I hold my mud. If we turn tail and run, then ultimately we will run out of places to run. Agreed?
MW
Exactly. If a drivers license has to be recognized then why isn't a state issued permit to carry a firearms recognized?
I wish that all of the gun orgs would band together and challenge this.
The solution is to force the recognition of state permits across the country similar to the way drivers licenses must be recognized. I believe it has something to do with "Equal Protection" under the Constitution.
Instead of the fed coming up with its own national CCW, go the equal protection route.
After NV changed their laws I just decided to get a Nevada non-resident permit.
Between the three I have, I am good to go.
Correct...until you travel outside that state.
Example: Utah Resident Permit and surrounding states. It is honored in AZ, WY, ID and CO. It is not recognized in CA, NV, or NM.
There is the problem. Of the states listed, CA, NV and NM are the states I would want to be armed in the most.
Instead of the fed coming up with its own national CCW, go the equal protection route.
I think the applicable principle is 'comity', which arises from this phrase in the Constitution: "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States."
Examples of comity: Marriage licenses recognized across state lines, driver's licenses recognized, etc.
The solution is to force the recognition of state permits across the country similar to the way drivers licenses must be recognized. I believe it has something to do with "Equal Protection" under the Constitution.
Instead of the fed coming up with its own national CCW, go the equal protection route.
This ^^^
Through this
I think the applicable principle is 'comity', which arises from this phrase in the Constitution: "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States."
Examples of comity: Marriage licenses recognized across state lines, driver's licenses recognized, etc.
Also agree that a federal law that restricts the limits states can put on carry areas might work. I am just worried about the states that have/want lots of restrictions getting their way.
I get nervous about getting the Feds involved since they can put such pressure on a state though funding. (drinking age laws for example.)
I tend to consider this a States Rights issue personally but would agree that the Constitution should be followed. (Novel I know!)
Buckaroo
citizensoldier16
02-03-11, 01:47
If a drivers license has to be recognized then why isn't a state issued permit to carry a firearms recognized?
Very interesting point of view, and one I had never considered before. It would be interesting if one state did not recognize another's driver's licenses, not to mention CCW permits.
Although, as I'm writing this, it comes to mind that, at least in NC, CCW permits are issued by the county sheriff, not the state. However, they are recognized state-wide. In NC, they are labeled "NORTH CAROLINA CONCEALED HANDGUN PERMIT" as well as bearing the NC State Seal. This may present an interesting conundrum. Is the permit issued by the county, or by the state? Granted my permit has NC at the top, it also has the county in which I live plainly displayed, and the back is signed by my county Sheriff.
On one hand, if CCWs were issued by the state itself, it could make an argument that they should be accepted across state lines much as a driver's license. However, since (at least in NC) CCW permits are issued by the individual counties, yet accepted by the state...that blurs the line between CCW and DL in terms of multi-state acceptance.
Maybe I'm wrong...I'm just thinking out loud as I type here....
The solution is to force the recognition of state permits across the country similar to the way drivers licenses must be recognized. I believe it has something to do with "Equal Protection" under the Constitution.
Instead of the fed coming up with its own national CCW, go the equal protection route.
that would work :)
The solution is to force the recognition of state permits across the country similar to the way drivers licenses must be recognized. I believe it has something to do with "Equal Protection" under the Constitution.
Instead of the fed coming up with its own national CCW, go the equal protection route.
This is the solution but until the requirements become more uniform it won't happen. Some states require more tonget your CCW and it's all over the place. If we could get states to agree on requirements w/o getting the federal government involved this would be the ideal solution. If everyone (or at least 47 of true states who live in reality) could get together & agree on instruction & qualification requirements I think we could finally long ways for nationwide reciprocity. Getting the federal government involved isn't the answer IMO.
This is the solution but until the requirements become more uniform it won't happen. Some states require more tonget your CCW and it's all over the place. If we could get states to agree on requirements w/o getting the federal government involved this would be the ideal solution. If everyone (or at least 47 of true states who live in reality) could get together & agree on instruction & qualification requirements I think we could finally long ways for nationwide reciprocity. Getting the federal government involved isn't the answer IMO.
Drivers license requirements are not really uniform either (nor are marriage pre-reqs [some states allow non child bearing age cousins to wed for example]). What you describe might be needed for voluntary reciprocity. It is not needed for "comity" through the Constitution.
Drivers license requirements are not really uniform either (nor are marriage pre-reqs [some states allow non child bearing age cousins to wed for example]). What you describe might be needed for voluntary reciprocity. It is not needed for "comity" through the Constitution.
There have been bills introduced to make reciprocity between CCW issuing states and theybalways die because those who vote it down point to lack of requirements of some issuers. If we can make requirements more uniform I think something like this would be much more likely. I also think it's a better place to focus our efforts so the states think it's their idea (read: more likely to not be fought) rather 55an trying to force it down their throats via comity through constitution. The whole thing is idiotic that we should have to even discuss this though. The thought that someone who passes a background and demonstrates proficiency at some capacity is a bad person simply because they reside across some imaginary line is silly. Well, unless they're from California that is. Lol
I find it funny that "keep & bear arms" is a right and driving is a privilege, yet recognition of DL's is required of states and recognition of state issued CCW licenses is not. WTF???
We do not need a federal CCW permit for a right. What we need is a SCOTUS that will recognize the "bear" part of the 2nd Amendment. Then the states would be forced to recognize CCW permits from other states, as well as issuing their own. The rights of the states do not trump the rights of the people.
If the feds have the right to grant nationwide carry, they have a right to take it away. I'm fine leaving this to the states as was intended. If you don't like your state laws there's 49 others you can try.
If it's passed as a law, then yes, you'd be right. If it's derived as a right under the Second Amendment, however, then no, they couldn't revoke it once a verdict is reached.
There have been bills introduced to make reciprocity between CCW issuing states and theybalways die because those who vote it down point to lack of requirements of some issuers. If we can make requirements more uniform I think something like this would be much more likely. I also think it's a better place to focus our efforts so the states think it's their idea (read: more likely to not be fought) rather 55an trying to force it down their throats via comity through constitution. The whole thing is idiotic that we should have to even discuss this though. The thought that someone who passes a background and demonstrates proficiency at some capacity is a bad person simply because they reside across some imaginary line is silly. Well, unless they're from California that is. Lol
The problem is that what Congress giveth (or state legislatures giveth), can be taken away. Legal recognition of comity of CCW makes it much harder to take away through the legislature.
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