M&P .45? the Doc is right, IMO!

[wha-tah-hey]

Hi all -

I've been thinking of getting (don't laugh, please!) "my last handgun".
And for the first time in my (long) life, I decided to do some homework rather than just go buy what I saw that I liked.

Like many, I grew up with Elmer Keith and Jeff Cooper as surrogate mentors.
So I've a strong predilection toward 1911s, .45 ACP, manual safeties, and above all else - single-action only!
Wish I had a $ for each time I've quoted Coopers "Double action is an elegant solution to a non-existent problem."
And I already load .45ACP.

I joined this forum after reading many of DocGKR's comments.
And on his cue, I decided to man-up and try a D/A.

Since none of my kids were around to see me fall from 1911 grace, I went to a local gunstore, fondled Glocks, HK & Smiths, then (in for a penny, in for a pound) went so far as to rent an M&P 45 just to see what such a thing might be like.
Awfully light for such a cailber!
Could I keep 'em on the paper even at 7ish yards?

Simply put - I and it astounded at least me.
Not that I'm any great shot - just an average one who perhaps shoots a little more often than average.

But if the target loads ok:
10 shots COM, 3 neck, 5 head.
The 2 in L shoulder are my first ever try at double tap - trying for the "B 27E".
All at what passes for rapidfire for me.

I've never shot a D/A pistol before and admit to a little "stage fright" when I went to the line.
I shoot almost exclusively at my range at home, seldom with spectators, and I've never been to an indoor range, with strangers around to see my work.

Now, this post isn't to toot my own horn, or for pats on the back.
The point is that a run-of the-mill shooter can take what Doc says to heart.
He knows what he's talking about.

I'm sold on the M&P 45 - a resounding "Thanks, Doc!"

(Now I can get rid of my Taurus PT's.):D

regards,

Terry

[Sry0fcr]

I think that most of the guys with the Subject Matter Expert and Industry Professional tags know what they're talking about.

Off topic, the M&P & Glocks aren't DA, they're striker fired. The striker is pre-cocked like a SA hammer.

[wha-tah-hey]

Well, all right then!

Shows the depth of my dumbitude & bias - "It's plastic? Must be DA."
I'm an even better example of why this is a superb forum for learning!

I like the M&P even more. :)

And certainly no slight intended to anyone.

[ralph]

I think you'll find the M&P.45 is the sleeper in the M&P series..I have a Midsize .45, and it is very accurate, and other than some minor issues with a couple of mags I have (I've got 6, and I think these two just have really stiff springs in them) I haven't really had any problems with it, I've probably got close to 3000rnds on it, I've put a Apex DCAEK in it as well as some Heinie Straight 8's It used to have a thumb saftey,but, that's long been removed, and the holes in the frame plugged.. The only other polymer framed .45 I could think of that may be better, would be a HK45c..I'd love to try one..

[wha-tah-hey]

It was, in fact, the mid-size I tried.
The compacts are all a bit short in the grip for me.
In an effort to take my CCW more seriously, I'm looking for a proven gun that's both ergonomic and emotionomic (?!).

I'm still doing homework on this, tho' I really like the safetied M&P.
And the fact that I can later convert if desired is a plus.
I'm drawn to the HK's 1911ish features - exposed hammer, external safety, GI-looking slide release.
If I can find 'em to rent, I want to try an HK45 and USP.

But I'm having fun. :)

BTW - I have perhaps unfounded concerns over 2nd strike capability, probably because I experience more FTF than anything, almost certainly due to the fact that the great majority of my shooting is done with my handloads.
Would I be better served to simply learn to clear anything that doesn't go bang first time?

[gillian_seed]

It was, in fact, the mid-size I tried.
The compacts are all a bit short in the grip for me.
In an effort to take my CCW more seriously, I'm looking for a proven gun that's both ergonomic and emotionomic (?!).

I'm still doing homework on this, tho' I really like the safetied M&P.
And the fact that I can later convert if desired is a plus.
I'm drawn to the HK's 1911ish features - exposed hammer, external safety, GI-looking slide release.
If I can find 'em to rent, I want to try an HK45 and USP.

But I'm having fun. :)

BTW - I have perhaps unfounded concerns over 2nd strike capability, probably because I experience more FTF than anything, almost certainly due to the fact that the great majority of my shooting is done with my handloads.
Would I be better served to simply learn to clear anything that doesn't go bang first time?

If it was me, I would defiantly use those FTFs as opportunities to practice jam clearing.
Also FYI the HK"s have very unique magazine releases that you use your trigger finger to actuate instead of your thumb. Their not bad (actually I prefer them because you don't have to roll your gun to reload and my hands are kinda small), just different.

[rathos]

The striker in the M&Ps resets at a very short distance. If you wanted to try a second strike without clearing the round you can basically do a press check as if you were checking for a loaded round and the striker should be reset in that distance. Or as others have said just practice your clearance drills.


It was, in fact, the mid-size I tried.
The compacts are all a bit short in the grip for me.
In an effort to take my CCW more seriously, I'm looking for a proven gun that's both ergonomic and emotionomic (?!).

I'm still doing homework on this, tho' I really like the safetied M&P.
And the fact that I can later convert if desired is a plus.
I'm drawn to the HK's 1911ish features - exposed hammer, external safety, GI-looking slide release.
If I can find 'em to rent, I want to try an HK45 and USP.

But I'm having fun. :)

BTW - I have perhaps unfounded concerns over 2nd strike capability, probably because I experience more FTF than anything, almost certainly due to the fact that the great majority of my shooting is done with my handloads.
Would I be better served to simply learn to clear anything that doesn't go bang first time?

[cgcorrea]

I've had a full-size M&P 45 for almost a year now. Great gun. Can't go wrong with it IMO.

[ralph]

It was, in fact, the mid-size I tried.
The compacts are all a bit short in the grip for me.
In an effort to take my CCW more seriously, I'm looking for a proven gun that's both ergonomic and emotionomic (?!).

I'm still doing homework on this, tho' I really like the safetied M&P.
And the fact that I can later convert if desired is a plus.
I'm drawn to the HK's 1911ish features - exposed hammer, external safety, GI-looking slide release.
If I can find 'em to rent, I want to try an HK45 and USP.

But I'm having fun. :)

BTW - I have perhaps unfounded concerns over 2nd strike capability, probably because I experience more FTF than anything, almost certainly due to the fact that the great majority of my shooting is done with my handloads.
Would I be better served to simply learn to clear anything that doesn't go bang first time?

Basically, with what little bit of training I've had, we were taught in the case a round dosen't fire, not to screw around getting a second hit on it...clear the pistol, don't waste what could be very valuable time on trying to get a bad round to fire...clear it, and get a fresh round in there ASAP, worry about the bad round later.

[wha-tah-hey]

The striker in the M&Ps resets at a very short distance. If you wanted to try a second strike without clearing the round you can basically do a press check as if you were checking for a loaded round and the striker should be reset in that distance. Or as others have said just practice your clearance drills.

!!?!!
The kids "helping" me at both stores last night stated that the M&P had no 2nd strike capability!
Didn't need to test it in the few rounds fired, but I took 'em at their word.

Forgive my ignorance, "I am an egg" (Stranger in a Strange Land - R. Heinlein), but what's a press check?
Sounds like maybe a tactile loaded round indicator - release and repress?

And is it in any way a better idea to learn to simply clear an FTF?
Maybe better stated, any downside to that?

[gillian_seed]

!!?!!
The kids "helping" me at both stores last night stated that the M&P had no 2nd strike capability!
Didn't need to test it in the few rounds fired, but I took 'em at their word.

Forgive my ignorance, "I am an egg" (Stranger in a Strange Land - R. Heinlein), but what's a press check?
Sounds like maybe a tactile loaded round indicator - release and repress?

And is it in any way a better idea to learn to simply clear an FTF?
Maybe better stated, any downside to that?

A press check is the action of moving the slide enough out of battery so you can reach with your support hand to see if their is a round in the chamber. If their is the extractor will pull the round far enough out of the chamber so you can feel it, if their isn't a round in the chamber your finger will feel empty space inside your gun. A press check actually isn't a jam clearing technique, it's just a way to see if your gun is loaded.

The M&P does not have second strike, but like a Glock, it's striker is reset very early in the slide's cycle. So if you do a press check you should have moved the slide back far enough to reset the striker.

Does that make sense?

[wha-tah-hey]

Perfect sense - and thanks.
MOF - I've likely always done a visual check - never thought to "press".

Apologies, Ralph - I was still typing my previous when yours came in.

But that's about what I thought.
Just wasn't sure if there is some benefit to multiple strikes in some odd, inobvious circumstance.

'Course, mebbe if it's your last round and the game isn't over......... ;)

[DanjojoUSMC]

Second-strike capability is an advantage but I wouldn't choose a pistol based off of having it or lacking it. If you ever have to actually use it, real life is basically "shanking some one with bullets." You won't realize you used the second-strike capability. If nothing is happening after two or three trigger presses you will yank the crap out of the slide to try to get a functional round in there.

I can't see using a press-check to cock the striker again on a Glock or M&P unless you are at a range doing some slow-fire practice.

[gillian_seed]

Perfect sense - and thanks.
MOF - I've likely always done a visual check - never thought to "press".

Apologies, Ralph - I was still typing my previous when yours came in.

But that's about what I thought.
Just wasn't sure if there is some benefit to multiple strikes in some odd, inobvious circumstance.

'Course, mebbe if it's your last round and the game isn't over......... ;)
The physical check is for if you can't see your gun (but Jesus, if you're in total darkness and your gun is drawn, I'd hope you would know there's a round in the chamber :D). lol

[Coleslaw]

A press check is the action of moving the slide enough out of battery so you can reach with your support hand to see if their is a round in the chamber. If their is the extractor will pull the round far enough out of the chamber so you can feel it, if their isn't a round in the chamber your finger will feel empty space inside your gun. A press check actually isn't a jam clearing technique, it's just a way to see if your gun is loaded.

The M&P does not have second strike, but like a Glock, it's striker is reset very early in the slide's cycle. So if you do a press check you should have moved the slide back far enough to reset the striker.

Does that make sense?


The M&P has a loaded chamber indicator - the hole in the top of the slide that gives you a visual. Providing you have light of course.

[wha-tah-hey]

Roger to all - 2nd strike is now officially a non-issue with me. :D

Fact is, I can imagine that in a real situation, one would keep pressing, 'til it sunk in that nothing was happening.