View Full Version : Tactical Ropes Day Scheduled - Portland - April 23rd
since this thread is getting long/cluttered, i'm editing the first post with pertinent information as well as the roster.
intent:
day to practice rappels- tactical and/or E&E (escape and evasion)
necessary gear:
as i've said, it depends on what YOU want to work on. if you just want to have fun and learn straight up rappelling, then i'd suggest either renting a sport climbing pack from a local climb shop- probably $25 for the day- or buying a harness, 'biners, belay device, etc. if you rent a sport climbing package, you'll have everything you need. CORRECTION- you still need to bring your own leather gloves.
so loadout for tactical rappel, to buy:
- harness $45-$90, for a good sport climbing harness, or $150-$300+ for an authentic "tactical" harness (not recommended). any climbing shop, and REI, unless you want the fancy shit- then you need to check out Yates gear online
- HMS locking carabiner $10-$20, any shop, REI
- belay device... some suggestions-
.....ATC - $12-$16 at REI,
.....DMM V-Twin - $25-$30 (no longer in production, but US Outdoors in portland still has some- these are very good devices for rappelling, as they don't get hot)
.....figate - $3-$15 (also doesn't get hot, and is the traditional standard, but can be difficult to control, they twist the rope, and are generally considered obsolete outside of the tactical community) available for $3 at Climb Max in portland, or you can get the supposedly better (i've never tried it) Super 8 at REI for like $15.. they probably have regular figates too.
.....Grigri - $75ish at REI - these, and similar devices, are sort of cool for rappelling where you know you'll need to make a lot of lock-off stops or have to **** with gear, etc.. anything that will require quick stopping or both hands
whatever you do- please don't bring a "tube" or "pyramid" type device... they get way too hot, and i'm anal about heat on nylon. i don't even like the ATC, for rappelling, but it's what everyone seems to have..
- basic thicker leather gloves. in my opinion, from a cost perspective, you cannot beat Walmart's $8 "Wells Lamont" gloves. get a pair that fits close, but not tight.
- helmet if you want (if we get the building, probably not gonna wear it) $40-$140+
grand total: $80 - $285ish+, and you'd be perfectly outfitted at $80. when in doubt, go as basic as you can.
anyone feel free to point out anything i'm missing
for a purely E&E day on the rope-
- 18' of 1" or wider, preferably tubular, rated nylon webbing, available at MOST climbing shops (many don't carry webbing that wide, so call ahead), and REI has plenty. i personally don't trust surplus shop webbing- those places have no problem selling JUNK $5? nothin' -or- you can bring 12-13' of 11mm'ish (don't go much thinner) ROPE rather than webbing, to make a "swiss seat"... price will be about the same
- HMS locking carabiner $10-$20
- leather gloves $8
- helmet if you want $40-$140+
- basic rappel device (I'm going to demonstrate the munter hitch, and probably everyone who wants to will get to try it, but it unnecessarily tears up the rope) - if you're willing to put out the bucks, and you live less than 200' from the ground, then a Grigri is actually a really good investment for an E&E kit. might save your life, if you have to rappel in a panic.
grand total - $25 - $100
feel free to pm me for clarification/whatever
who's invited:
8 people physically fit enough for intense fear and a possibly near-vertical climb back up (depending on location, which is still a question-mark)
roster, thus far:
1. bkb0000
2. tradja
3. misty
4. misty's boy
5. alvin
6. t-bone
7.
8.
where/when:
Saturday, April 23, 2011. currently have Rocky Butte in Portland as our fallback plan, but i'm trying to find a BUILDING or appropriate bridge, for authentic urban rappel
note on gear compatibility-
if you're bringing guns (and you should be), i pretty much suggest you plan to open carry. if i carry during the event, i will likely go to a drop-leg holster and OC, because hip carry and harness wearing don't really mesh well. IWB is especially un-cool- a large portion of your weight will be compressing the gun into your hip, and it's not only very uncomfortable, but probably not a great thing to subject your weapon to. gun in a backpack also works, if you don't want to OC.
feel free to bring your carbine and range loadout. all i ask is that you keep the weapon empty and have an orange chamber flag inserted while we're on the wall. it MAY end up not being a great idea to bust out the hardcore stuff, depending on where we end up and how many anti-gun hippy climber types we may or may not have around us.
disclaimer:
rappelling is dangerous. if your equipment fails, or if you make a simple mistake, you could easily die or suffer serious injury. there will be no instructors on-site- just a bunch of crazy yahoos slappin' each other with the hotmops and shit.
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see the rest of the thread for further details, feel free to PM me or post
I would love to do some of that. I am a rope/rescue tech at my fire department...it would be fun to do some different stuff.
But, Portland is a bit far for me.
You never know, if something does get planned, I might just have to crash the party!
I would love to do some of that. I am a rope/rescue tech at my fire department...it would be fun to do some different stuff.
But, Portland is a bit far for me.
You never know, if something does get planned, I might just have to crash the party!
it'd be awesome if i could get at least one other guy experienced with ropes. one guy tail-braking at the bottom, one guy for instruction up top. that way i wouldn't feel compelled to put up a gay-ass top-rope. where are you located?
I am located about 30 minutes east of Tacoma.
It sounds like an awesome opportunity. Is it goin to simply be rappeling, or other things thrown in there?
I'd have some interest if the timing were right.
it'd be awesome if i could get at least one other guy experienced with ropes. one guy tail-braking at the bottom, one guy for instruction up top. that way i wouldn't feel compelled to put up a gay-ass top-rope. where are you located?
I'm very interested. I'm a casual recreational rock climber and could bring a 60m dynamic rope, 1 medium men's harness, 1 small women's harness, ATC, misc other gear, and could be the bottom brakeman. I've only rappelled using an ATC and a Grigri and would be very interested to learn other techniques (body friction, Figure 8, etc).
I've never integrated my tactical training and my basic climbing skills - they've always been separate hobbies for me, though they are similar in strict safety requirements and attention to detail. I don't readily see the application, but heck, I'd be down for a tactical cooking class. This would be very interesting.
I'd be coming from Bend and would be down to carpool.
I am located about 30 minutes east of Tacoma.
It sounds like an awesome opportunity. Is it goin to simply be rappeling, or other things thrown in there?
gonna depend entirely on who's coming and who knows what. i'd much rather it be a collective knowledge sharing day than a "class." we'd be able to cover more advanced stuff, and move through it faster. but if we just end up with a cluster of noobs, i'm totally OK with that too... we just won't have the time to get past the basics of anchors, knots, and descending. regardless, i want to have plenty of time to run through exercises to some degree of competency... new guys should get at least three clean rappels. i've never been big on "classes" where you're basically just shown a few things you don't understand, given one, maybe two opportunities to rap, then told to get out of the way. quality over quantity.
i'm still in the "that would be cool" phase of planning, though.. i have no course outline or plan of any sort... just gaging interest. as people show interest, i'll start refining my intent.
I'm very interested. I'm a casual recreational rock climber and could bring a 60m dynamic rope, 1 medium men's harness, 1 small women's harness, ATC, misc other gear, and could be the bottom brakeman. I've only rappelled using an ATC and a Grigri and would be very interested to learn other techniques (body friction, Figure 8, etc).
I've never integrated my tactical training and my basic climbing skills - they've always been separate hobbies for me, though they are similar in strict safety requirements and attention to detail. I don't readily see the application, but heck, I'd be down for a tactical cooking class. This would be very interesting.
I'd be coming from Bend and would be down to carpool.
i'm using the term "tactical" loosely... basically just differentiating between what we'd be doing and, say, sport application... although there's plenty of crossover. really, i should call it "E&E ropes day," since that's more what i have on my mind. "tactical" would tend more toward the few various rappelling styles- basic ass-down, invert, geneva... we'll only be covering ass-down, unless we get out there and everybody already happens to know it sleeping.
but definitely will cover improvisation- improv harnesses, improv anchors, improv/other belaying- munter ("improvised" for those of us used to ATCs), 5-'biner brake, maybe figure 8- although i feel the figure 8 is basically obsolete and unnecessarily dangerous, this day and age. i haven't done much with body friction- nothing genuine- but maybe i'll **** around with a couple methods for demonstrative purposes. that IS, afterall, the quintessential "improvised" method.
i'm using the term "tactical" loosely... basically just differentiating between what we'd be doing and, say, sport application... although there's plenty of crossover. really, i should call it "E&E ropes day," since that's more what i have on my mind. "tactical" would tend more toward the few various rappelling styles- basic ass-down, invert, geneva... we'll only be covering ass-down, unless we get out there and everybody already happens to know it sleeping.
but definitely will cover improvisation- improv harnesses, improv anchors, improv/other belaying- munter ("improvised" for those of us used to ATCs), 5-'biner brake, maybe figure 8- although i feel the figure 8 is basically obsolete and unnecessarily dangerous, this day and age. i haven't done much with body friction- nothing genuine- but maybe i'll **** around with a couple methods for demonstrative purposes. that IS, afterall, the quintessential "improvised" method.
Gotcha. Sounds great and I'm in. The improvised gear and techniques would be of great interest to me. Let me know if I can bring any of my limited gear once we get it scheduled.
Would be interested, depending on schedule. I have an assortment of gear from mountaineering days that could be used. I haven't used in in a few years and would be good to do some refreshing of the skills.
i'm back.
anyway...
i'm not sure the spot i had in mind is gonna be a good place, for several reasons.. not least of all, it's a public cliff area, and can get super crowded. usually not, but it'd suck if we roll in and the two walls that are only semi-appropriate for new guys rappelling are being climbed. i think it's unlikely, but possible. it's also pretty treacherous up there when damp/wet... so if it rains at all, the danger level spikes. i'm gonna start thinking about a new venue, still within the portland metro area. if anybody spies any good walls/cliffs/abandoned warehouses/semi-hidden bridges/etc, let me know.
as to the "course outline," we can cover whatever you guys are interested in. MY thinking is to focus on E&E, but let me know what your interests are, and i'll see what i can work out. if nobody has any interest in E&E, we can just do some straight up full tactical loadout rappelling and have fun. let me know what you're interested in.
as to costs...
to put together a full rappel kit will run you probably $60-120 in gear, depending on the type of harness you get.. REI actually has one for about $40- the Black Diamond Bod. plus an additional $150-200+ for a rope, depending on your rope needs. for our training day purposes, you can use my rope. rappel devices vary a lot, but are generally between $12-$90, and you can even get "figates" (figure 8s) for $3 at Climb Max in portland right now (also a great place to get the rest of your gear- very cool, very helpful people).
to put together a full E&E kit will run you probably $20-25 in gear (not including rope).... so there's obviously a pretty big difference in gear requirements.
to RENT a rock climbing package (harness, carabiner, belay/rappel device, shoes (won't need them), chalk (won't need it), and helmet, will probably cost you around $20-25 at one of several local climbing shops
the first two don't include hemlet, which, depending on where we end up doing this, may or may not be required. the biggest concern is falling rock... so if there's no risk of that, we can probably get away without it. but helmets are still always a good idea- dropped gear splits your head open just as easily as rock, from 80' up.. and smashing into the wall head-first also tends to lacerate/abrade head flesh. i've yet to see anyone do the latter, but anything can happen. doesn't necessarily need to be a climbing helmet- ballistic helmets, hard-hats will work fine.. those fancy multi-hundred-dollar non-ballistic head-gear crash helmets some of you guys have will also work fine.
Welcome back.
Any word on scheduling?
A number of years ago, we would use Rocky Butte. Not the climbing cliffs but the man-made stone structure at the top. Not sure if it would even be allowed anymore but a thought.
Welcome back.
Any word on scheduling?
Whenever... probably schedule it out into spring, for the hopes of better weather.
A number of years ago, we would use Rocky Butte. Not the climbing cliffs but the man-made stone structure at the top. Not sure if it would even be allowed anymore but a thought.
rocky butte is exactly what i had in mind- the climbing area. ropes are prohibited on the "castle" up top now.. we still use it for bouldering, but no chalk and no ropes, is the new rule. and since there's usually about a billion people up there, it's probably best to comply.
rocky butte is exactly what i had in mind- the climbing area. ropes are prohibited on the "castle" up top now.. we still use it for bouldering, but no chalk and no ropes, is the new rule. and since there's usually about a billion people up there, it's probably best to comply.
That sucks. Used to go there 10-11 years ago. There would not be anyone up there to speak of. I guess the climbing thing has become way to popular. Horsethief Butte out past the Dalles has some pretty good cliffs but there were always more people out there + it is a long drive (at least for me it is longer than I am willing to drive).
Anyone have an in on a fire department's training tower? (I know, not likely to be allowed)
That sucks. Used to go there 10-11 years ago. There would not be anyone up there to speak of. I guess the climbing thing has become way to popular. Horsethief Butte out past the Dalles has some pretty good cliffs but there were always more people out there + it is a long drive (at least for me it is longer than I am willing to drive).
Anyone have an in on a fire department's training tower? (I know, not likely to be allowed)
yea.. climbing has pretty much blown up in the last decade. what used to be mysterious is now easily knowable, thanks to the internets... so people are doing shit they never would have otherwise done these days. thats my theory, anyway.
horsethief is definitely far for a day rappelling. there's several spots in the gorge, both OR and WA side, that are half that.. but for just plain rappelling, there's places right smack in the middle of portland- just need to find/decide on one. i can think of several places right off the top of my head that will make due, but i'm holding out for ideal. there's a couple bridges sort of off the beaten path that might make decent spots, as well as a couple abandoned buildings that i want to check out. all right along highway 30 as you leave town. hoping to get time to investigate this weekend.
Bump...any news? I'm still interested.
haven't really been thinking about anything involving ropes while this weather has been so awful. absolutely terrible. perpetually wet and freezing cold. all we need is a spot, and we can schedule... ill start looking again- this weathers got to clear up at some point.
we'll probably just end up going to rocky butte. it's not a bad place, just not ideal for straight up rappelling. there's a really low wall... probably 25'... at the top of the buttress thing sort of in the middle of the bluff that has a pretty easily scalable boulder pile right next to it. i could probably throw one of my fat lifelines down there, and people can jug back up. if we're doing rocky butte, it'd be cool to hit one of the taller walls... the wizard wall would be awesome (absolutely terrifying)... but that would save a shit ton of time, and allow everyone to go down 6, 10, 12 times each, probably. the more the better.
it occurs to me that i have surgery scheduled for the 27th of April and will be in rehab for 6-8 weeks after that... so we should probably get this thing scheduled ASAP.
why don't we just go ahead and schedule it for the weekend prior? April 23rd or 24th. whats better you for guys, sat or sun?
I have asolutely no rope experience, but am very interested in this idea. would I be totally out of my element if I were to come down and participate? if I had to pick a day the 24 would work granted I'd be driving down from Seattle.
the only prerequisite is that you be in decent physical condition with decent to good upper body strength. getting down is easy... getting back to the top is likely what most American men would consider "strenuous." furthermore, backing out over a cliff can be, for people who are not used to such things, terrifying. your adrenaline WILL surge, your heart rate WILL spike... if you have any kind of blood pressure or heart problem, this probably isn't a great activity for you.
and the only OTHER prerequisite is a small quantity of required bare-minimum gear, which i will list with estimated costs and recommended places to buy this evening.
anybody and everybody that has those two covered is welcome.
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i'm gonna have to put this in here at some point, so i might as well do it now- putting all your body weight on gear dozens of feet above a rocky death is not something to take lightly. there is a risk of injury or death, engaging in this activity, and you must recognize this before you come out. the gear and methods we'll be using are sound- so long as you follow protocol and use quality gear, you will likely survive the day unscathed... but understand the inherent degree of danger associated with deliberately dangling yourself above heights the human body is not designed to sustain drops from. i am not a rappel instructor, and so far, as far as i know, there will not be any rappel instructors present.
if anybody has any questions or concerns, feel free to post them, or PM me.
it occurs to me that i have surgery scheduled for the 27th of April and will be in rehab for 6-8 weeks after that... so we should probably get this thing scheduled ASAP.
why don't we just go ahead and schedule it for the weekend prior? April 23rd or 24th. whats better you for guys, sat or sun?
Either day is good for me. Good luck with your surgery!
I have asolutely no rope experience, but am very interested in this idea. would I be totally out of my element if I were to come down and participate? if I had to pick a day the 24 would work granted I'd be driving down from Seattle.
i sort of missed the direct question... so to answer, specifically, you'll definitely be out of your element, but that's half the point. are you afraid of heights? you won't be by the time we're done. :D
well... looks like Easter had to go and be on the 24th. uncanny how that happens.
so the event is scheduled for the 23rd, unless it being easter weekend is gonna prevent everyone from coming out.
let me know. i wanna get a firm head count. it doesn't sound like there's huge interest, but i think we should probably limit it to no more than 7...?, for safety reasons.
Would love to come, but that weekend is out for me traveling. Have fun and be safe!
i found the most kick-ass spot anybody could ask for tonight.. the only way it could be any better would be if it was longer. as it is, i eyeball estimate it at 40-50 feet. plenty good for our purposes. excellent top access, straight wall down, nice landing, and stairs back up.
i know the guy that owns the building, he's pretty cool in general- but i'd say it's about a 50/50 chance he'll let us use it. i'm sure everybody would have to sign liability waivers... but gunslingers like us are used to that. cross your fingies... gonna ask him tomorrow. hell... he's old, but maybe he'll even want to join us.
so who's in on the 23rd of April for sure? tradja, still down? titleist? t-bone? where my dawgs at?
this is a premature post.... but i'm too excited to not post something
i just got off the phone with the guy that owns the building, and it sounds like we're gonna be able to work something out. just so happens, the roof of the building in question has leaks- just so happens, i have almost a decade of construction experience- mostly in roofing.
HAH!
he's gonna get back to me probably this afternoon with a ye or nay... has to run it buy the "boss" first (wife).
cross your fingers... if we get the OK on this, it's gonna be one bad ass day on the ropes.
so who's in on the 23rd of April for sure? tradja, still down? titleist? t-bone? where my dawgs at?
Sorry for the delay. I've been at Magpul classes the past 6 days and am camping, with only sporadic wifi access on a flaky iPod Touch. I'm in for 23 April. The bldg sounds great, thanks for sourcing a great venue!
I'm driving from Bend and anyone along the way is welcome to carpool. I will bring the meager gear I listed above.
i promised a gear list a few nights ago...
as i've said, it depends on what YOU want to work on. if you just want to have fun and learn straight up rappelling, then i'd suggest either renting a sport climbing pack from a local climb shop- probably $25 for the day- or buying a harness, 'biners, belay device, etc. if you rent a sport climbing package, you'll have everything you need.
so loadout for tactical rappel, to buy:
- harness $45-$90, for a good sport climbing harness, or $150-$300+ for an authentic "tactical" harness (not recommended). any climbing shop, and REI, unless you want the fancy shit- then you need to check out Yates gear online
- HMS locking carabiner $10-$20, any shop, REI
- belay device... some suggestions-
.....ATC - $12-$16 at REI,
.....DMM V-Twin - $25-$30 (no longer in production, but US Outdoors in portland still has some- these are very good devices for rappelling, as they don't get hot)
.....figate - $3-$15 (also doesn't get hot, and is the traditional standard, but can be difficult to control, they twist the rope, and are generally considered obsolete outside of the tactical community) available for $3 at Climb Max in portland, or you can get the supposedly better (i've never tried it) Super 8 at REI for like $15.. they probably have regular figates too.
.....Grigri - $75ish at REI - these, and similar devices, are sort of cool for rappelling where you know you'll need to make a lot of lock-off stops or have to **** with gear, etc.. anything that will require quick stopping or both hands
whatever you do- please don't bring a "tube" or "pyramid" type device... they get way too hot, and i'm anal about heat on nylon. i don't even like the ATC, for rappelling, but it's what everyone seems to have..
- basic thicker leather gloves. in my opinion, from a cost perspective, you cannot beat Walmart's $8 "Wells Lamont" gloves. get a pair that fits close, but not tight.
- helmet if you want (if we get the building, probably not gonna wear it) $40-$140+
grand total: $80 - $285ish+, and you'd be perfectly outfitted at $80. when in doubt, go as basic as you can.
anyone feel free to point out anything i'm missing
for a purely E&E day on the rope-
- 18' of 1" or wider, preferably tubular, rated nylon webbing, available at MOST climbing shops (many don't carry webbing that wide, so call ahead), and REI has plenty. i personally don't trust surplus shop webbing- those places have no problem selling JUNK $5? nothin'
- HMS locking carabiner $10-$20
- leather gloves $8
- helmet if you want $40-$140+
- basic rappel device (I'm going to demonstrate the munter hitch, and probably everyone who wants to will get to try it, but it unnecessarily tears up the rope) - if you're willing to put out the bucks, and you live less than 200' from the ground, then a Grigri is actually a really good investment for an E&E kit. might save your life, if you have to rappel in a panic.
grand total - $25 - $100
feel free to pm me for clarification/whatever
****in wives. i should just say "never mind, dont bother," anytime anybody says they need to consult their wife first.
no go on the building. he says the wife said it's too much liability, and the "wall is too fragile to have people climbing up and down it." as if a wall that cant handle a rubber-soled boot can somehow weather weather.
but i'm at least inspired, now... i'm gonna keep looking. if nothing else, rocky butte is always available, and it's still plenty adequate.
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/rock/IMAG00772.jpg?t=1302131350
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/rock/101_1199.jpg?t=1302131402
****in wives. i should just say "never mind, dont bother," anytime anybody says they need to consult their wife first.
QFT. Whenever anyone says this anymore, I take it as a "no".
In any event, are we still on for 23 April, at Rocky Butte instead? A building would have been great since those of us with climbing experience have rapped rock lots of times, but usually not a manmade structure.
Are there any bridges we could use?
QFT. Whenever anyone says this anymore, I take it as a "no".
In any event, are we still on for 23 April, at Rocky Butte instead? A building would have been great since those of us with climbing experience have rapped rock lots of times, but usually not a manmade structure.
Are there any bridges we could use?
there are some bridges. the problem with bridges, however, is that they're generally verticle rap only. still fun, and a great opportunity for "rap jumping," if you've never tried that, but not great for demonstrating urban rappel techniques, and worse for improvised methods. but there are definitely some bridges i've looked at.
thurman street bridge
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/rock/2839969785_17b6ed1205_z.jpg
washco "trussles"
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/rock/IMGP2151.jpg
latourell creek bridge, east of corbet
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab6/bkb0000/rock/115900-M.jpg
if i look hard, i can find another building. i'm going to be calling two other people today regarding their nearly abandoned, beat up rickety buildings about a block from the building i wanted to do it at. there's a good chance one of them wont need to consult his wife first, and would like to trade labor for access.
if we can find a building, i have a professional climber buddy who wants to come- we haven't talked about it, but i know for a fact he's got SHITLOADS of gear and probably wouldnt mind sharing. he'd also probably be a great source of additional knowledge.
in the mean time, we're still on for RB on the 23rd.
I have no gear and no experience in rappelling, but it sounds like fun. It would be myself and my son
I have no gear and no experience in rappelling, but it sounds like fun. It would be myself and my son
how old is your boy?
see above for a necessary gear list. unless you can borrow two complete sets of gear, you'll have to buy or rent it... there's just no even partially efficient way to share gear, on the ropes.
but there's no experience requirement- just the promise that you're physically fit enough to be experiencing a tremendous adrenaline dump, and potentially "jugging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumar)" back up the wall to the landing, depending on the venue we end u[p with.
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speaking of jugging... i have a fat 3/4" "lifeline" i can use for jugging, but i've only got one ascender that'll work for rope that size. anybody else (tradja) happen to have a shitty old rope and an ascender or two we could use? i've got two ascenders, a couple more would be handy. and since pretty much nobody else in the group climbs, you can be pretty sure you'll actually get them back when we're done. :p
alvincullumyork
04-10-11, 20:35
I have 2 ascenders and a static line along with some other basic gear. I want to come but I need to know the schedule of the day, specifically start and end times.
My son is 21. Where, in the Seattle area, might we rent equipment?
I'm not in the best of shape, but I can handle an adrenalin dump and I'm not afraid of heights. Not in the worst of shape either. When I asked my wife if she'd like to try rappelling, she just fixed me with That Look
Whootsinator
04-10-11, 22:45
Damn this sounds like a great day...
I need to get back to the Pacific Northwest...
I have 2 ascenders and a static line along with some other basic gear. I want to come but I need to know the schedule of the day, specifically start and end times.
havent thought about it.. it's gonna depend on where we end up. or not. probably gonna be 9 or 10am to whenever people start whining about their wives and decide to leave. it's not getting dark till 8 these days.. if we get a good venue, where we can get back up quickly, we can actually probably cover a LOT in the first couplefew hours, then just **** off for the rest of the day.
My son is 21. Where, in the Seattle area, might we rent equipment?
I'm not in the best of shape, but I can handle an adrenalin dump and I'm not afraid of heights. Not in the worst of shape either. When I asked my wife if she'd like to try rappelling, she just fixed me with That Look
well 21 is certainly old enough.. but that sort of puts YOU in "hay, that ol' man ain't gonna ride, is he?" age, doesn't it? :D
i'm not all that up on shops in seattle- i just know what i hear from people.. but i'm under the impression that you guys have more/better shops than we have even down in portland (and we've got a good selection). Second Ascents is a mostly used gear shop- i'd bet they've probably got a good selection of rental gear... i even have their number- 206-545-8810
let me know if you need more help with that- i know a couple climbers from WA i can tap for info.
speaking of jugging... i have a fat 3/4" "lifeline" i can use for jugging, but i've only got one ascender that'll work for rope that size. anybody else (tradja) happen to have a shitty old rope and an ascender or two we could use? i've got two ascenders, a couple more would be handy. and since pretty much nobody else in the group climbs, you can be pretty sure you'll actually get them back when we're done. :p
Sorry, no ascenders and I just retired my old beater rope.
Sorry, no ascenders and I just retired my old beater rope.
retired ropes are perfect for jugging!
...well 21 is certainly old enough.. but that sort of puts YOU in "hay, that ol' man ain't gonna ride, is he?" age, doesn't it? :D...
It does. I just turned 50. But I still have all my teeth and I upgraded to treachery a long time ago
alvincullumyork
04-11-11, 13:48
I am officially in. As far as the wife goes I have found it best to get some form of limited permission, go, then just do what you want and ask for forgiveness later. This is coming from admittedly little experience but its the plan for the 23.
It does. I just turned 50. But I still have all my teeth and I upgraded to treachery a long time ago
some of the strongest climbers on earth are 50-55.
and many of my 30ish year old friends dont even have all their teeth. :laugh:
I am officially in. As far as the wife goes I have found it best to get some form of limited permission, go, then just do what you want and ask for forgiveness later. This is coming from admittedly little experience but its the plan for the 23.
wives should be given the mushroom treatment, when it comes to things that are dangerous and/or expensive.
sounds like you've got some climbing experience?
---
lets get an official tally-
8 spots, so far we have 6 reserved-
1. bkb0000
2. tradja
3. misty
4. misty's boy
5. alvin
6. t-bone
7.
8.
lord vader?
isaac?
hot carl?
i've edited the first post to include all (hopefully?) pertinent information, since this thread's long and sort of cluttered.
let me know if i forgot to include anything important. and make sure you contact me if you have any questions/uncertainty about gear- returns are almost NEVER allowed on rope gear.
alvincullumyork
04-11-11, 18:36
wives should be given the mushroom treatment, when it comes to things that are dangerous and/or expensive.
sounds like you've got some climbing experience?
I would have to agree.
A little bit, mostly sport climbing but I did clean my first trad route over spring break, it was a super intense 5.7:eek:.
I would have to agree.
A little bit, mostly sport climbing but I did clean my first trad route over spring break, it was a super intense 5.7:eek:.
you lead it? i haven't done any trad yet.. i've sort of had to put the breaks on my gear spending, reminding myself that the whole reason i've been learning to rock climb to begin with is to make myself a better mountaineer- NOT a hardcore rock climber. i'll probably skip trad in favor of aid, once the weather starts to facilitate chalk and rock shoes.
alvincullumyork
04-12-11, 11:31
you lead it? i haven't done any trad yet.. i've sort of had to put the breaks on my gear spending, reminding myself that the whole reason i've been learning to rock climb to begin with is to make myself a better mountaineer- NOT a hardcore rock climber. i'll probably skip trad in favor of aid, once the weather starts to facilitate chalk and rock shoes.
Sadly no. I was going to lead the next one but time was short and we had to leave. It was all my brothers gear, its ridiculous how much a couple of cams will run you. I have been half heartily been trying to start ski back-country/mountaineering. Got an AT setup and a beacon, probe, and shovel just need to find some people who want to walk up the mountain not take the lift.:suicide2:
"We don't need no stinkin crampons or axes its June!" How to eat your words.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/alvincullumyork/iceaxes.jpg
Are we still on? Any more details, such as when & where? I plan to head down to REI and find out how much it'll cost to rent gear. Will probably also need to rent a hotel room. Any shooting planned?
Can I bring one more? I have a cousin who is interested and did some rappelling as a kid. He's going to call me tomorrow and let me know if he'll be able to go
still on- still Rocky Butte, right now. and still have room for 2 more
Cool. Where is Rocky Butte and how do I get there from Seattle?
CORRECTION TO REQUIRED GEAR LIST- i state "if you rent a sport climbing package, you'll have everything you need"- not true... you still need leather gloves. it's possible to rap without gloves, and every rock climber has, and you're welcome to try, but you will definitely want gloves for what we're doing.
---
as far as needing a hotel room- i wouldn't think that's necessary, unless you've a 8 hour drive ahead of you or something. we'll probably plan to start at 10, and my guess is most guys will be ready to roll out before 6... you can leave any time you want, if you need a head start on daylight.
dont make it too much of an inconvenience for yourself- we're very flexible for this event.
Cool. Where is Rocky Butte and how do I get there from Seattle?
your best bet will be to come down I-5 to I-205, take exit 23A (killingsworth/sandy), go east on killingsworth for about 100m, turn right onto Sandy, and head west on sandy till you get to 82nd.. turn LEFT onto 82nd, and then turn LEFT on Fremont... follow Fremont east till you get to the foot of the hill, and follow the road to the left, then to the right. once you make the curve to the right, you'll be next to the school with the big white dome dorms... find a parking spot right on the road (dont park IN the school lot), and i'm not sure how we'll converge, because i havent even decided on which wall yet.
everyone who's coming should save my number - 503-three-two-seven-four-two-four-four. if you don't see me (does everyone know what i look like?), give me a call, and i'll either come get you or tell you which way to go. the cliffs are on the NE side of the road (left side, if you're looking up hill with the school on your right).
Dont mean to derail this logistical thread with climbing discussion, (though I wouldn't mind learning a few tricks...), but I, too, was annoyed at how abrasive the Munter was to my lines' sheaths. Here's a simple alternative to the Munter in case you weren't aware of it:
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/9295/dsc07669w.jpg
Step 1:
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/2896/dsc07670o.jpg
Step 2:
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/4805/dsc07671c.jpg
Step 3:
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2338/dsc07672.jpg
Pull taught:
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4428/dsc07673n.jpg
Clip in on the bottom biner:
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/4159/dsc07675v.jpg
It's a little faster than a Munter. I wouldn't recommend giving this friction device a shot for your first time on a line. A third biner can be added above the top one for a slight bit of added friction, but I doubt you would notice. If this three biner method is used, you MUST clip in to the middle biner.
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6951/dsc07676kl.jpg
Like a Munter, you can clip onto the line without threading it through from the end. This makes it very convenient. Unlike a Munter, it wont tear your sheath all to hell. Stay safe.
What kind of shoes should we wear?
What kind of shoes should we wear?
pink crocs. :cool:
you can wear pretty much anything... i recommend a calf-boot with good tread. we can't rule out the possibility of ankle-deep mud at the bottom.
pink crocs. :cool:
Dang. All of mine are lavender
pax- that's a good method for slope-wall descents.. as you said, it's pretty fast for a vertical rap. i haven't tried it, but i wonder if small D's wouldn't work, and perhaps brake better, with that method...?
i'd originally planned to cover a couple of different biner brakes, but pretty much concluded that if you find yourself in a situation without a rap/belay device and NEED to get down, the munter requires the least gear, is easy to remember, and works in a pinch.
REI doesn't rent rappelling gear and does not know who does due to liability reasons.
Harness & carabiners for two will be about $200. If we get this gear, will we also need to get rope?
REI doesn't rent rappelling gear and does not know who does due to liability reasons.
Harness & carabiners for two will be about $200. If we get this gear, will we also need to get rope?
woah! don't buy if you don't want to- you certainly dont have to. and no, i'll provide rope. if you DO want rope, i can make suggestions, though.
did you try second ascents? i posted their number earlier in the thread. i know for a fact shops down here rent gear... if you can't find one, i'll make a couple calls tomorrow when they open back up.
---
if you do end up buying, remember you'll need 4 things:
harness
HMS carabiner
leather gloves
belay device - see first post for recommendations
retired ropes are perfect for jugging!
I trimmed the "user" end of my old rope, and the "still usable" remnant is 85 feet long. I'll bring it, and my new 60m rope as well. I can bring a spare ATC and locking biner too.
alvincullumyork
04-17-11, 22:57
I have a spare harness but its buried either in my storage unit or in eastern or. I am going to go dig through the unit tomorrow and will report back. If I have it I will see what size it is if anyone wants to borrow it.
I did not try Second Ascents. I'll try to contact them tomorrow.
If I do buy gear, I guess that'll mean I have to go rappelling more often. I think the wife would be happier if I rented this time
I trimmed the "user" end of my old rope, and the "still usable" remnant is 85 feet long. I'll bring it, and my new 60m rope as well. I can bring a spare ATC and locking biner too.
85' is perfect.. there's only two spots where i figure we'll be able to jug back up, one's not any more than 30 feet, and the other is still probably only 45-50'.
looks like we'll have a total of 4 or 5 ascenders for 7 people.. we'll probably fix the rope at both ends, then have a buddy system for ascension- two guys, one ascender.. and always stick with your buddy. that way we dont need to leave the ascenders at the fixed rope. buddy can pass the ascender down via cord, which i can provide.
you guys are gonna get expedition mountaineering training along with your rappel training. :laugh:
85' is perfect.. there's only two spots where i figure we'll be able to jug back up, one's not any more than 30 feet, and the other is still probably only 45-50'.
looks like we'll have a total of 4 or 5 ascenders for 7 people.. we'll probably fix the rope at both ends, then have a buddy system for ascension- two guys, one ascender.. and always stick with your buddy. that way we dont need to leave the ascenders at the fixed rope. buddy can pass the ascender down via cord, which i can provide.
you guys are gonna get expedition mountaineering training along with your rappel training. :laugh:
:confused: Yeah. What you said
I did not try Second Ascents. I'll try to contact them tomorrow.
If I do buy gear, I guess that'll mean I have to go rappelling more often. I think the wife would be happier if I rented this time
if you're willing to put out an extra $100 or so, you can get 50-60m of semi-static line and put all that gear to use whenever you want. sometimes i'll even string up a line from the top of my cherry tree out front and screw off for a few hours... i'm usually working on something specific- prusiking/hauling/rescue/etc.... but i'll always throw in some fast, hard raps while i'm at it.. scare the shit out of the neighbors, impress the kids.. :laugh:
:confused: Yeah. What you said
don't sweat it- none of that actually has anything to do with rappelling. i'm just describing my thinking for getting back up... getting down a 75' wall is easy- getting everyone back up quickly and efficiently is going to require some logistics. we'll likely borrow from mountaineering, using the "fixed rope." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_rope
---
gonna post some videos and info on harnesses and things later tonight, for anyone interested in getting a head start on improvised methods.
85' is perfect.. there's only two spots where i figure we'll be able to jug back up, one's not any more than 30 feet, and the other is still probably only 45-50'.
looks like we'll have a total of 4 or 5 ascenders for 7 people.. we'll probably fix the rope at both ends, then have a buddy system for ascension- two guys, one ascender.. and always stick with your buddy. that way we dont need to leave the ascenders at the fixed rope. buddy can pass the ascender down via cord, which i can provide.
Sounds great. That way we won't have to monkey around with prusiks.
Regarding the gear sticker shock - in addition to the excellent suggestions in post #1, let me note that I've been running the no-frills Black Diamond Alpine Bod (http://www.rei.com/product/699550) for years and an even simpler one before that. I like the low-profile design, especially for winter use. You don't need a $200 Arc'Teryx big-wall lounge chair or a dedicated tactical :rolleyes: harness for occasional climbing, mountaineering, roof/tree work, or rapping.
Regarding the gear sticker shock - in addition to the excellent suggestions in post #1, let me note that I've been running the no-frills Black Diamond Alpine Bod (http://www.rei.com/product/699550) for years and an even simpler one before that. I like the low-profile design, especially for winter use. You don't need a $200 Arc'Teryx big-wall lounge chair or a dedicated tactical :rolleyes: harness for occasional climbing, mountaineering, roof/tree work, or rapping.
totally. go as cheap as you can, unless you really think this is something you're going to get into. believe it or not, the used market is huge- you can sell off used harnesses, ropes, biners, etc., pretty easily (though i would never ever suggest buying used protective gear).
comfort really isn't an issue, when you're just rappelling- you're not gonna spent much time sitting in the thing... the idea is generally to spend as little time in it as possible.
I find that riggers belts often make the best rappelling rigs. This is not a popular view as they are admittedly less safe than a proper, rated harness. In addition, several riggers belts (read as: decent riggers belts) cost more than a simple harness like the BD Bod.
To me, though, it's a good excuse to buy an indestructible belt from 215 Gear or the like and like bkb said, you (hopefully) arent going to be spending enough time on the line to notice any substantial difference in comfort. I've been stuck on a line a couple of times and noticed my pants really starting to bug me, but that's my own damned fault.
I find that riggers belts often make the best rappelling rigs. This is not a popular view as they are admittedly less safe than a proper, rated harness. In addition, several riggers belts (read as: decent riggers belts) cost more than a simple harness like the BD Bod.
To me, though, it's a good excuse to buy an indestructible belt from 215 Gear or the like and like bkb said, you (hopefully) arent going to be spending enough time on the line to notice any substantial difference in comfort. I've been stuck on a line a couple of times and noticed my pants really starting to bug me, but that's my own damned fault.
somebody who knows what he's doing can get down pretty much anything under 200' with nothing more than a d-ring riggers belt and a 6mm low-stretch cord. but somebody who doesn't know how to keep his weight centered on the belt can get into trouble in a hurry, and i've still never seen a pair of pants with "rated" belt loops (although i'm sure somebody probably makes some).
Ben asked me to post telling everyone that he will be gone from the site a while but that the ropes event is still on for Saturday. If you need further info, his email is bkb0000@comcast.net
Thanks to BKB0000 for setting up and facilitating Tactical Ropes Day.
Thanks also to all who attended. The event was a big success. The turnout of six members was just about optimal for keeping things flowing safely. We covered basic rappeling mostly with ATC devices, though there was one figure eight that went sailing through the air. Though most of our time was spent on this, we did cover some knots, use of ascenders, improvised harnesses, munter hitch, types of rope, improvised anchors and a little climbing. For those of you that left a little early, we found a cave and did a little bit of very novice caving. I believe this about sums up the day. If I missed anything feel free to correct me or add to what I have said.
Good summary t-bone.
I learned that an IWB really wasn't so bad inside the harness all day. I don't know that I'd want to hang in it for hours, but it was fine for what we did. With an intermittent rain of dirt, gravel, fig8s, Gold Dots, and Glock mags throughout the day, I'm glad I had my helmet. :p The vertical cave was a really cool bonus.
Unfortunately, one of the tactical pink rope guards ended up in my pack at the end of the day. I'd be happy to ship it or just bring it to the next event.
Thanks to bkb0000 for setting it up, scouting locations, and for letting us burn up his ropes! Looking forward to the next PNW get together.
So, where are the pictures?
Here's a few. I'm editing together some quick video now.
On the main wall. Tough to say how high it was. bkb0000's 50m rope had about 10' used up in the anchor and about another 10' lying on the ground, so it was pretty high.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/tradja/m4C%20ropes%20day/IMGP9693.jpg
Climbing and rappelling on the second, smaller wall we moved to:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/tradja/m4C%20ropes%20day/IMGP9710.jpg
Demonstrating the improvised hasty harness and Munter hitch:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/tradja/m4C%20ropes%20day/IMGP9703.jpg
The Cave. Hard to get into and out of, but some knuckleheads drew swastikas. Some peoples kids...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/tradja/m4C%20ropes%20day/IMGP9719.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/tradja/m4C%20ropes%20day/IMGP9730.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/tradja/m4C%20ropes%20day/IMGP9734.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/tradja/m4C%20ropes%20day/IMGP9745.jpg
alvincullumyork
04-25-11, 19:35
I made a new thread but I guess I might as well stick this in here.
What was planned:
From the original thread, "day to practice rappels- tactical and/or E&E (escape and evasion)." We also planned to cover how to build the Hasty Harness, Swiss Seat, and Munter hitch. The venue was Rocky Butte in Portland.
For a more complete plan see the original thread here.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73271
What Happened:
I arrived about 9:45 and met BKB, t-bone, MistWolf, MistWolf Jr., and tradja got there about 10:00. Two ropes where already set up on a ~150 foot cliff. The basics of rappelling where explained and t-bone rapped down to the bottom to tail break. Then I went to the edge to look at the wall and dropped my figure 8 which hit the wall and then glanced off of t-bone at the bottom. After this BKB went just over the edge and me and tradja helped MistWolf and MistWolf Jr. get started, this was there first time rappelling. Everyone had there first rappel before 10:40 and we walked back up to the top and set up a jugging spot to shorten the walk back to the top. We got two or three more rappels using ATCs, figure 8, and BKB used a GriGri. At the jugging spot we used ascenders or just scrambled up the slope. At around 12 we took a break and had lunch. At lunch we discussed anchor options in buildings, kicking out dry wall to find studs and other options, and problems associated with these.
After lunch we moved a rope to go over a knuckle that was at the same level as the anchors. I volunteered to go to the bottom and tail break for everyone else. I had done several rappels where the anchor is at the same height as the drop off and knew that they are far harder than raps with anchor that are higher. As I backed out over the edge I got everyone's attention with something to the effect of, "When your anchor is low like this it make starting really diffuc" and then I slip over the edge on accident. I didn't drop very far but it was fast and I dragged the rope across a couple of good edges. Their was a little bit of sheath damage and one spot that even melted. Then when I was about half way down I got my shirt caught in the 8 and had to just keep going, it scorched the shirt but it turned out alright. After m debacle the rope was anchor more securely and everyone else made it down just fine and my second attempt was much better.
After everyone had gone down twice we decided to move to a new location to see if we could do a little climbing. At the this second spot BKB showed us how to make a Swiss Seat, Hasty Harness, and a Munter hitch. BKB then used a Hasty Harness and Munter hitch to rap down which was very impressive. At the new location we set up a jugging line and two rap lines and eventually a top rope on a 5.8ish route. We did a couple of simultaneous raps and climbed the route that we had put a top rope on. This is when I had to take off but I think that tradja, t-bone, and BKB hung out and did some more stuff.
What could have been done better:
I did not bring my A game. I dropped my 8 and hit t-bone with it and it could have been a lot worse than just the glancing blow that it was. Not only that but I slipped on the low anchor rap and got my shirt caught. I just wasn't at a 100 percent and it showed.
This was also the first time that I tried rappelling with my gun on. I had it in a Atomic dog holster using some leather IWB loops. Part way through the day I noticed that the rope had melted a nice little streak through the kydex (see picture below). Luckily this had no effect on the holster and rettention is still great. I thought it would be very uncomfortable being on the inside of my harness but it rode lower than the harness and was no issue at all. BKB had his pistol in a drop leg which seemed to be a much better option but he did run into one problem when some rope lodged in between his leg and the mag release and he dropped a mag a good 30 feet. The mag, it was a G17 mag, cracked and spit out a bunch of rounds. I think that a holster that protects the mag release would be a good thing to have.
Other than that it was a great day with lots of good refresher and learning. It was also nice to put some names with faces.
Everyone else with a camera should post their thoughts and pictures as well.
And last but not least a Big thanks to BKB for setting this up and making sure none of us killed our selves especially me.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/alvincullumyork/P1040235.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/alvincullumyork/P1040230.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/alvincullumyork/P1040226.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/alvincullumyork/P1040219.jpg
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/alvincullumyork/P1040241.jpg
http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/alvincullumyork/?action=view¤t=P1040237.mp4
http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/alvincullumyork/?action=view¤t=P1040242.mp4
http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/alvincullumyork/?action=view¤t=P1040238.mp4
alvincullumyork
04-25-11, 19:36
tradja
How deep did the cave go? Deep enough to be pitch black?
tradja
How deep did the cave go? Deep enough to be pitch black?
Not really. I'm not good at estimating vertical distance, but maybe ~30ft down. The entrance hole was very small and east facing, so it wasn't getting much light in the late afternoon. When you turned the headlamps off, it was quite dark anywhere except right under the entrance.
The main shaft T'd out into a slot/trench about 40 feet long, ramped up at one end.
Good AAR!
More vids!
John escaping the Pit of Dim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6h5G_AbfQ4
Ben escaping the Pit of Dim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7UCbbP9tTY
John descending into the Pit of Dim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZoag5EukvU
Ben grisgrising into the Pit of Dim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az1rL9iUAjI
John - stickin it to the Wizard, 100 style
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUv9ZZ8Dzsg
Sean false start on Wiz 100
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxEBk0Lcs1A
Don rapping the Wiz 100
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-z4RsS8GX0
Bow rapping the 100' Wiz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neY6tJ9UHRo
Lee reunited with Hat, on the Wizard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjNm3AvFRCA
Bow hippity hiphop hopping the Wizard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZAb50ceW5Q
Sean dancing with the Wizard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnmPnY6lgoU
Don rapping the Wiz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qze1I_F9rB8
Here's a video from about halfway down the Wizard of the group rapping:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v399/tradja/m4C%20ropes%20day/th_M4C-rappel.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v399/tradja/m4C%20ropes%20day/?action=view¤t=M4C-rappel.mp4)
alvincullumyork
04-25-11, 20:47
Thanks for posting the great pics and video. I wish I could have stayed longer but I got in trouble as it was. whoops.
sounds like a early winer thing, any one in?
sounds like a early winer thing, any one in?
It was a lot of fun when it took place LAST SPRING. ;)
And no, there were no whiners there, early or otherwise. :D
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