View Full Version : So, what's the best pistol (in 9pm & .40) IF...
I've been wondering something the last day or two, & will post the question here for additional input:
IF liberals in Congress had their way and instituted a ban on high capacity magazines (any magazines over 10 rounds), what pistol would you recommend in either 9mm (note: sorry, the "9 pm" in the title was an Apple autofill typo) or .40S&W as the "best?".
In other words, what pistol currently on the market is the best low capacity pistol in those two calibers?
One of the primary reasons for the resugence in popularity of the 1911 was the AWB. People, perhaps rightly, reasoned that if you were going to limit capacity you might as well carry the biggest bullet you could.
I suspect that, if there were another ban of some sort, you'd eventually see designs geared towards carrying the maximum legally allowed number of rounds in .45, and then perhaps producing guns in smaller calibers that would then be artificially limited.
It might be nice, in this theoretical system, to see a fullsize gun designed around 10 .45s, and then a compact version of the exact same design that was made on the premise of 10 9mm.
In 9mm, I'd still recommend the Glock G17 and/or G19.
In .40, I'm more equivocal. The only .40 I've retained in my battery is my FN Hi-Power; while I'm quite pleased with it, I'm a bit hesitant to recommend it as the "best" in its caliber. I'd probably recommend either/both the Gen4 Glock G22 or HK P30 (caveatted to say I personally have had no personal experience with either to date ).
Best, Jon
Business_Casual
02-06-11, 10:01
A G19 with 11 rounds isn't that much different from a G19 with 16 rounds, so I would stay with the platform I know.
B_C
If absolutely stuck with 10 round mags, I'd go with the M&P, full size in .45, compact in 9mm as a BUG, both with CT grips.
I would likely still keep a full size 9mm with neutered mags for training.
You would have to shoot a number of pistols and decide for yourself which platform works best for you. As long as you choose a good quality manufacturer, Sig, HK, Glock, Smith M&P, Beretta etc., you should be fine. As someone said earlier, for most of us, the difference between ten rounds and fifteen rounds is negligible. Also, no one can choose a weapon for you. Everyone is different, so you need to choose for yourself. I would say one thing though, there a number of uniquely qualified people that post here and elsewhere regarding different weapons, you might want to research those as you're trying to decide. Research, do a lot of shooting and you'll find what works best for you and your situation.
I'd carry the same thing I am right now, H&K P2000Sk LEM 9mm.
Rayrevolver
02-06-11, 13:47
What about the G20 or G29?
10mm can be bought at screaming fast 135gr or 230gr woods loads.
That said, these days I stick with a G26 and 11 rounds of 147gr Ranger Bonded.
Thanks for the input so far. Just to clarify, this is -- hopefully -- an academic exercise based on what I hope is an extremely unlikely eventuality: the implementation of a ban of all "high-capacity" magazines based on the ongoing efforts of anti-gun advocates. Also to clarify, this isn't a typical newbie "what gun should I buy" thread. I consider myself a pretty experienced shooter, and am not really asking about shopping advice (though I appreciate the standard well-intended "try lots out & see what works best for you" advice). Finally, I'm not tortured by the "only 10 rounds" quandary; I'm pretty comfortable personally with a "tool" (gun) that only carries that load (10-11 rounds, as opposed to a 15-33 round load). To reframe the original question: what full-sized pistols currently out there in 9mm and .40S&W meet the requirements of a ban environment, without using neutered magazines?
I agree that the .45, either in the 1911 style or in a pistol like the HK 45/45C is probably the best choice, given those parameters (full-sized, 10 rounds or less, without neutered mags). That aside, as I look around at what I would consider to be the major players, I don't see a lot of pistols on the market that currently fit those parameters in 9mm, .40S&W, and other "lesser" calibers. Therefore, that solution set aside, what choices are out there right now (based on a perfect-storm scenario of unexpectedly fast-moving legislation and a brief grandfather period) in lesser calibers, suitable for shooters who don't like or can't handle .45, or for those who'd like a lower-costing ammunition choice?
One more thing, by way of background explanation...
My next gun (in a perfect world) will probably be an HK 45C, anyway. I'm comfortable with the pistol's strengths and weaknesses, but I'm still bothered by the fact that I think my wife will have some reluctance to shoot lots of .45 herself, and that the cost of maintaining live-fire proficiency with .45 is significantly higher than with 9mm and .40S&W.
So, again, what's out there now that fits the parameters I've laid out?
The Dumb Gun Collector
02-06-11, 16:29
Glock 26, P2000 SK, or HK45c if you want to step up.
In a capacity neutered world, I wouldn't carry a .40 at all - I'd rather have 8-10 .45 ACP over 10 .40 S&W anyday.
In any event, there are two ways to look at this. Either (a), you have fewer rounds, so you want to ensure that you can make every one count, or (b) your capacity is limited, so you might as well go as small as possible.
In the first instance, I don't see any reason not to keep on carrying the G19. It would still be the most reliable, lightest weight easily concealable option available. In .45 ACP, I'd go with a 5" 1911 from a reputable maker, once it proved itself reliable.
In the latter case, the G26 is the answer that leaps to mind immediately, though, personally, I find it's "concealability" advantage over the G19 to be minor. The Kahr PM9 is A LOT more concealable, hence it would get my vote in 9mm, for "smaller is better" thought. In .45, the G30SF is an attractive option - not REALLY small, but smaller than the G19, and offering a full 10+1 capacity.
Regards,
Kevin
Pistol Shooter
02-06-11, 16:54
I've been wondering something the last day or two, & will post the question here for additional input:
IF liberals in Congress had their way and instituted a ban on high capacity magazines (any magazines over 10 rounds), what pistol would you recommend in either 9mm (note: sorry, the "9 pm" in the title was an Apple autofill typo) or .40S&W as the "best?".
In other words, what pistol currently on the market is the best low capacity pistol in those two calibers?
I understand and appreciate your question. Let me suggest this.
The President can go after gun control (if he dares, and with his problems, I don't think he will) with the fury of a thousand suns.
But at the end of the day, there are still 262 NRA A-rated Representatives and 50 NRA A-rated Senators.
Thus, Obama has to flip 37 A-rated Reps, get 10 A-rated Senators to decline a filibuster on the issue and get Harry Reid, the Senate Majority Leader (who arguably owes his recent election to the NRA) and another A-rated senator to flip on the last vote.
If and when Mr. Obama has done all of this, he can sign some legislation that will guarantee his party gets a worse thumping than they did in 2012.
I've been in touch with my Senators and Representatives on a regular basis since Mr. Obama was elected and I hope you all have too. :)
A G19 with 11 rounds isn't that much different from a G19 with 16 rounds, so I would stay with the platform I know.
B_C
I tend to agree with this.
I understand and appreciate your question. Let me suggest this.
The President can go after gun control (if he dares, and with his problems, I don't think he will) with the fury of a thousand suns.
But at the end of the day, there are still 262 NRA A-rated Representatives and 50 NRA A-rated Senators.
Thus, Obama has to flip 37 A-rated Reps, get 10 A-rated Senators to decline a filibuster on the issue and get Harry Reid, the Senate Majority Leader (who arguably owes his recent election to the NRA) and another A-rated senator to flip on the last vote.
If and when Mr. Obama has done all of this, he can sign some legislation that will guarantee his party gets a worse thumping than they did in 2012.
I've been in touch with my Senators and Representatives on a regular basis since Mr. Obama was elected and I hope you all have too. :)
Best advice yet.
Next best [IMHO]: settle on a platform you like and buy plenty of mags for it.
RogerinTPA
02-06-11, 17:33
I've been wondering something the last day or two, & will post the question here for additional input:
IF liberals in Congress had their way and instituted a ban on high capacity magazines (any magazines over 10 rounds), what pistol would you recommend in either 9mm (note: sorry, the "9 pm" in the title was an Apple autofill typo) or .40S&W as the "best?".
In other words, what pistol currently on the market is the best low capacity pistol in those two calibers?
If limited to 10 rounds like Commiefornia or the previous AWB, neither. I'd go with the M&P45 middy, with the same size grip and 10 round mag cap as the full size.
I live in California, in civilian classes we've seen a lot of the neutered 10 rd magazines fail to function adequately--particularly Glock magazines. In 9 mm and .40, the 10 rd M&P and HK P30 magazines tend to work a bit better then the 10 rd Glock mags. I prefer using pistols whose magazines were originally designed for a 10 rd or less capacity.
If stuck with a 10 rd mag limit, the following work well:
M&P45 in all variants, HK45c, M&P40c, S&W 4013 single stack version, G26, G19 cut down to accept G26 mags, S&W3913, 9 mm Sig P239 (if you can find one with good reliability and durability); a properly built custom 5" single stack 1911 or a custom .40 Hi-Power are also reasonable choices if a person is willing to invest a substantial amount of funds, effort, and time in getting them set-up correctly.
jasonhgross
02-06-11, 18:43
I carried a glock 19 during the ban, and I carry one now. Add another +1 to the 10 round glock magazines being worthless. All we can hope for if there is a ban, is that pre-ban magazines will be grandfathered. Get what you need now.
I agree with sticking with the G19. G26 would be a very valid answer, except I am far more proficient and confident with the 19. Even in an AWB type of environment, I probably still wouldn't pick a 1911. I love the gun for its history, aesthetics, and trigger. But I don't have that type of dedication that *good* 1911 users have to their guns. A HK 45C would also be a consideration, but only a thought for now, as I don't have any real trigger time with that platform.
With regards to the 10rd neutered mags, I know a lot of those magazines had reliability issues. I would hope in that environment, someone steps up and builds a magazine that would be reliable to the G19/17 platform.
Lets just hope those times don't come back again....
I understand and appreciate your question. Let me suggest this.
The President can go after gun control (if he dares, and with his problems, I don't think he will) with the fury of a thousand suns.
But at the end of the day, there are still 262 NRA A-rated Representatives and 50 NRA A-rated Senators.
Thus, Obama has to flip 37 A-rated Reps, get 10 A-rated Senators to decline a filibuster on the issue and get Harry Reid, the Senate Majority Leader (who arguably owes his recent election to the NRA) and another A-rated senator to flip on the last vote.
If and when Mr. Obama has done all of this, he can sign some legislation that will guarantee his party gets a worse thumping than they did in 2012.
I've been in touch with my Senators and Representatives on a regular basis since Mr. Obama was elected and I hope you all have too. :)
that felt good to read. :)
I think you are right, gun control may still be dead in this county after all. It doesn't work (ie make people safer) and it's caused a lot of headaches and even ruined lives among those of us who enjoy firearms responsibly.
that said to the OP-HK p7! if you've gotta carry a low cap gun, carry the finest one made by man. :cool:
I bought my USP .40 Compact during the last AWB and therefore only have 10 round mags for it. However, I love my little G27 for carry, and its only got 9 round mags from the factory. I do have a few for it with higher capacity. My new favorite is the old 1911. With only 8 rounds there, but in .45 its always a favorite 10 round or less gun.
I bought my USP .40 Compact during the last AWB and therefore only have 10 round mags for it. However, I love my little G27 for carry, and its only got 9 round mags from the factory. I do have a few for it with higher capacity. My new favorite is the old 1911. With only 8 rounds there, but in .45 its always a favorite 10 round or less gun.
yeah the subcompacts are definitely a great choice for carry if you've got a mag restriction to work with, no sense carrying extra grip if it's not full of bullets.
yeah the subcompacts are definitely a great choice for carry if you've got a mag restriction to work with, no sense carrying extra grip if it's not full of bullets.
The counterpoint to that is that having a full grip is an asset for shootability. Whether or not a marginal increase in shootability or that of concealability has higher priority would be the question for everyone to answer for themselves.
For some reason I shoot my G27 better than my USPc. That's with the flat plate mag on the G27 and a pinky tucked under and a full grip on the HK. I shoot my 1911 better than both of them though.
davebee456
02-06-11, 22:34
I think about moving to california once in awhile and I know not all of my current handgun collection could move with me untill they undo their awb..
I would have to get rid of some pistols
I know I would keep the Hk45C, Glock 26 and 1911 (maybe)
sell my glock 19 and 21SF and get a full size HK45 or M&P 45.
so if i was forced to go 9mm I would pick a Glock 26 3rd gen.
if it was 40 s&w I would go with an Hk P2000sk.
If you live in a state with a 10 round mag cap...I doubt you will be CCW'ing unless you are L.E.
but i do not trust neutered mags
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.