View Full Version : BAD lever or dedicated ambi lower?
When the BAD lever first came out I was fairly skeptical. It looked out of place and sort of jerry rigged to the lower. Following a few negative reviews I completely dismissed it. Subsequently I had planned on going with a lower that had been specifically designed with an ambi bolt release. The new Spikes Biohazard was going to be my next purchase until a recent range trip where I got to try out a friends M4 fitted with a tactical link battery assist (just like the BAD). I have to admit it was fairly awesome. I really didnt want to like it, and kept searching for faults, but after a few super smooth/fast mag changes i was wondering if this $35 piece of gear may be a better option than the $315 lower i was all set to buy. The other feature I really liked about the lever was the quick bolt hold open abilities when clearing the rifle (something the spikes doesn’t have). I got so use to this feature that it was a little annoying to go back to my own rifle. Seems like from the reviews I have read that the levers either work for your rifle and you love em or they dont and you hate em. So what are your thoughts? Lower that was designed for an ambi release, or a cheaper, more feature rich lever that could possibly be a bit of a coin toss?
RAM Engineer
02-06-11, 05:57
KAC SR15 ambidextrous lower.
I haven't met an ambi lower yet that puts the release in as intuitive a location as the BAD. I'd prefer a release like the ACR/XCR/FAL but in lieu of that I'll keep using the BAD, and I actually prefer the version from Tactical Link to the Magpul production versions.
ETA:
I also don't know of any production ambi lowers that allow for the locking back of the bolt on the ejection-port side, which is an infinitely more useful feature than releasing it. Advantage BAD there as well.
I would break down the relative usefulness of the BAD as 25% release and 75% hold-open, meaning that an ambi release-only lower is giving your only 25% of the use at 300% of the price.
I agree with Ram, the IWS complete lower is easily the finest large scale production lower Ive found to date(the best ambi lower or lower period is the MPLA, specifically the very, very, few china dolls) Has the best controls, fit, finish, and for me roll mark....the hydraulic like LMT tube and sopmod doesnt hurt either:)
Personally I tend to refrain from hanging rather large and awkward levers from my receivers but then again my index finger serves as my b.a.d.
http://i53.tinypic.com/sxn0d4.jpg
I agree with Ram, the IWS complete lower is easily the finest large scale production lower Ive found to date(the best ambi lower or lower period is the MPLA, specifically the very, very, few china dolls) Has the best controls, fit, finish, and for me roll mark....the hydraulic like LMT tube and sopmod doesnt hurt either:)
Personally I tend to refrain from hanging rather large and awkward levers from my receivers but then again my index finger serves as my b.a.d.
http://i53.tinypic.com/sxn0d4.jpg
With the ambi lower it still takes to hands to lock back the bolt right?
RAM Engineer
02-06-11, 08:54
It always takes two hands to lock the bolt back. One to retract the bolt and one to hit the bolt catch, be it on the side or in the magwell.
ah, semantics to dodge the question.
Perhaps the better question would be, Does the KAC lower require you to break your strong-hand grip from the pistol grip of the firearm in order to lock the bolt to the rear?
Robb Jensen
02-06-11, 09:11
I have a KAC ambi lower on my SR15E3 and a Lancer lower on my 3gun rifle. I really like both. I use a Magpul BAD Lever on my KAC lower and was using a Phase 5 Tactical lever on my Lancer because a BAD didn't fit correctly. I ended up removing the Phase 5 because it would sometimes prevent the bolt from locking back.
For someone wanting a true ambi lower I'd say wait for the A-DAC lower from AXTS. It's very worth the wait.
And by true ambi lower I mean one that has a safety lever on each side of the gun. One that can be used to lock and release the bolt from either side of the gun as well as can be used to drop the mag from either side of the gun.
The BAD lever is the most useful $30 addition I have made to my rifle.
I agree with Robb's definition of a true ambi lower.
I also like the battery assist type levers and I have been using them for several years. They address my lefty considerations very well.
Good stuff guys. That A-DAC looks awesome! I was totally unaware of it, wish i would have found them at shotshow. Wonder what the price tag will be.... For the time being I think I’ll be ordering a battery assist and seeing how it works out for me. I'll def be waiting for that lower to be realeased though.
Rainier Arms has the v1 of the AXTS ADAC lower on pre sale for $139. AXTS has v2 of their lower in the pipeline that adds right side bolt release just like the KAC e3. Theyll also a matching 7.62. Very cool. Now if I could get them to add an ADAC pin to my e3 I'd be really happy. I have a BAD lever on mine, but I'm not a fan of the bolt on idea.
-T
The BAD lever is the most useful $30 addition I have made to my rifle.
I have to agree with this.
m1a_scoutguy
02-06-11, 22:38
I have to agree with this.
I agree 110% also,,I have both a Magpul and a Tac Link BAD,,they both work great on my rifles !!! I actually prefer the Tac Link one myself !!!;)
motorwerks
02-06-11, 23:24
I have the tac link on my scoped guy. I tried it on my carbine's and hated it but I find that on the scoped gun I tend to set up for a shot and then figure out..... $hit.... I forgot to send it home. So it works great on that rifle.
I've had guys giving me grief for well over a year now about adding a BAD to my issue rifle - but even our range coaches were in disbelief when I was able to clear a legit double feed in the middle of a box drill during our Table III shoot. I had to replicate this during the night fire as well - simply not possible without that BAD on there.
Even the SR15 lower I have wears a BAD. Shooting right handed, no change. Shooting lefty, I can lock the bolt to the rear with the left hand, and send the bolt home with my right hand (mashing the BAD in or hitting the bolt release on that side)
That’s interesting that you would put the BAD on an already (supposedly) ambi lower. I guess that just shows how useful the bolt hold open abilities and versatility of the BAD really are. I actually toyed with throwing one on the Spikes biohazard I was planning to buy just because the lower has so many other cool features. In sight of recent info I think I'll be waiting for the AXTS v2 to come out. On that note, can anyone see any downside to the bolt hold being combined with the mag release? Seems like it could be annoying in certain situations to have to drop the mag every time you wanted to hold the bolt back. On the other hand, you are removing added steps from clearing double feeds and therefore saving valuable time in a tactical situation.
That’s interesting that you would put the BAD on an already (supposedly) ambi lower. I guess that just shows how useful the bolt hold open abilities and versatility of the BAD really are. I actually toyed with throwing one on the Spikes biohazard I was planning to buy just because the lower has so many other cool features. In sight of recent info I think I'll be waiting for the AXTS v2 to come out. On that note, can anyone see any downside to the bolt hold being combined with the mag release? Seems like it could be annoying in certain situations to have to drop the mag every time you wanted to hold the bolt back. On the other hand, you are removing added steps from clearing double feeds and therefore saving valuable time in a tactical situation.
The reason KAC designed a (true) ambi lower is for lefties one would think....and speaking as I lefty, I have no need for a cumbersome and rather large lever hanging on the side of my receiver. It is a completely useless control just waiting to go tits up for myself. The SR15 lower leaves me wanting nothing more in terms of controls once I install a badass 45 throw as lefty.(Triggers aside)
Maybe I should clarify the "supposedly" in my previous statement describing the sr15. I was saying it was supposedly ambidextrous based off of Robbs earlier statement, which I whole-heartedly agree with.
And by true ambi lower I mean one that has a safety lever on each side of the gun. One that can be used to lock and release the bolt from either side of the gun as well as can be used to drop the mag from either side of the gun.
The SR15, though a superb platform, fails to fulfill one of the afore mentioned criteria’s
Seems like it could be annoying in certain situations to have to drop the mag every time you wanted to hold the bolt back.
I don't think you understand how this lower works. You *can* lock the bolt to the rear by holding in on the magazine release button and pulling back the charging handle, but the lower also maintains the legacy functionality of the paddle on the left side so you could lock the bolt to the rear the standard way.
Although as I sit here just halfway into my morning coffee I can't think of a reason I'd want or need to lock the bolt to the rear with a magazine in the gun that wasn't stuck there by a doublefeed. For administrative clearing you'd eject the magazine and stow it, and leave your right hand exactly where it is. After your left hand stows the magazine it would move to the charging handle where it would pull back as the right booger-picker presses in on the button, locking the bolt to the rear as the left hand eases it forward.
Robb Jensen
02-09-11, 05:57
That’s interesting that you would put the BAD on an already (supposedly) ambi lower. I guess that just shows how useful the bolt hold open abilities and versatility of the BAD really are. I actually toyed with throwing one on the Spikes biohazard I was planning to buy just because the lower has so many other cool features. In sight of recent info I think I'll be waiting for the AXTS v2 to come out. On that note, can anyone see any downside to the bolt hold being combined with the mag release? Seems like it could be annoying in certain situations to have to drop the mag every time you wanted to hold the bolt back. On the other hand, you are removing added steps from clearing double feeds and therefore saving valuable time in a tactical situation.
If you don't want to drop the mag when wanting to lock the bolt to the rear on the AXTS A-DAC you can use the bolt catch on the left side of the lower like all other lowers. I can't for the lift of me thing why one would ever do this but it's capable of that.
sargoodwin
02-09-11, 15:00
I started out with a DD AR and slowly modified it, one of the mods being a BAD lever. I then built a light weight "stock" AR. It was just not the same going from a rifle with a BAD to one without. I now have 3 ARs: 2 in 5.56 and 1 in 6.8. All of them have Magpul BAD levers on them. The BAD lever is one of my favorite, as well as cheapest, add-ons I have.
I have a KAC ambi lower on my SR15E3 and a Lancer lower on my 3gun rifle. I really like both. I use a Magpul BAD Lever on my KAC lower and was using a Phase 5 Tactical lever on my Lancer because a BAD didn't fit correctly. I ended up removing the Phase 5 because it would sometimes prevent the bolt from locking back.
For someone wanting a true ambi lower I'd say wait for the A-DAC lower from AXTS. It's very worth the wait.
And by true ambi lower I mean one that has a safety lever on each side of the gun. One that can be used to lock and release the bolt from either side of the gun as well as can be used to drop the mag from either side of the gun.
Robb is that system proprietary or could other ARs get retrofitted for that?
Robb Jensen
02-10-11, 06:13
Robb is that system proprietary or could other ARs get retrofitted for that?
The A-DAC is proprietary but only adds one part. There is a rod that's between the mag catch button and the bolt catch. The different mag catch button is used instead of a USGI type on and modification to existing lowers just isn't cost effective.
Some lowers couldn't be modified anyway. A KAC ambi lower and Lancer lower have stuff in the way (right side bolt release) so it isn't possible for the AXTS right side bolt catch through the mag catch couldn't work on those lowers anyway.
Hammertime
02-10-11, 21:37
The BAD lever is a great tool for right-handers. However, in my experience, over time they tend to get loose. On one of my lowers, you can shake it and the BAD rattles. No joke. I am looking to replace mine with a phase 5 one-piece or TLink or something else I haven't seen yet that will hopefully stay tight.
Looking forward to trying something else.
Bryant
sandsunsurf
02-10-11, 23:03
Two comments: First, I've had a BAD on my SBR for a while, using it as a fun-gun and some training. I just completed a precision type AR, and put a BAD on it (because I had an extra sitting in a drawer for about 6 months). Now, I'm positive that I'll be putting a BAD on my work rifle this weekend. I knew I liked it, but wasn't sure. Now I REALLY like it...
The BAD lever is a great tool for right-handers. However, in my experience, over time they tend to get loose. On one of my lowers, you can shake it and the BAD rattles. No joke. I am looking to replace mine with a phase 5 one-piece or TLink or something else I haven't seen yet that will hopefully stay tight.
Looking forward to trying something else.
Bryant
My first BAD rattled immediately upon installation. It was easily and permanently fixed by putting a bit of Loctite Repair Extreme glue on the paddle and installing the BAD over it.
If I have a choice, definitely a purpose built lower designed with fully ambidextrous controls, instead of add ons.
Some of these add on/retrofit parts work very well, some are so well thought out they seem a part of the platform. I have mixed feelings about BAD. It attaches to the bolt stop that was never meant to carry more than its own weight, certainly not a screw on long lever that extends down the receiver and comes out the other side. If it's loose, I'd understand. The bolt catch moves a little bit when sandwiched between the receiver's two anchors, this movement becomes more pronounced when a long lever is attached.
It certainly works, it's simple and effective, but does have a few shortcomings, given the design constraints.
A receiver that already has all the features built in won't have the look and feel of a BMW M3 badge on a Nissan. I firmly believe that the existing receivers without ambidextrous controls will soon be things we collect for old times sake.
Many ambidextrous receivers don't qualify as fully ambidextrous. Having a right side bolt release does not make a receiver ambidextrous.
The AXTS AX556 and AX762 receivers are the only ones that can call themselves fully ambidextrous ;)
axtsweapons
03-08-11, 01:06
If you are interested in a dedicated 100% ambi lower, ETA , Pricing and additional info on the AX556 is now up on our website.:D http://axtsweapons.com
axtsweapons
09-03-11, 18:05
We are very pleased to announce that we are working on our first retail run of AX556’s that will ship on October 3rd. Our website will accept pre-orders for the AX556 at 8:00 AM Pacific Standard Time on Saturday, September 3rd. To give as many people as possible the opportunity to get an AX556 sooner than later we will be limiting the order quantity to 1 per customer for the initial production run.
For those of you whose orders make the first run your card will be charged a 50% deposit shortly after your order is placed (this is to help us determine the number of committed buyers for the first run so we know how many to machine). The remaining balance will be charged to your card when your order ships. For those of you whose orders don’t make the first run we’ll be charging your card for the full amount due when your order ships.
We are offering $20 off every lower receiver BAD ASS selector combo. So whether you order an AX556, A-DAC-F or any number of both you get the discount for each combo.
We have implemented quite a number of design changes improving ergonomics after a lengthy test period and input from many industry professionals. Check out the product page for images of the final design REV.
http://axtsweapons.com/products/AX556
Here is a link to our Facebook page for those interested in the product development process and a contest to get $50.00 off an AX556. Whoever can make the most comprehensive list of changes and the associated ergonomic improvements for each wins!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/AXTS-Weapons/106498542772075
For an in depth review of the A-DAC-F by MM of militarymorons.com
http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.uppers4.html#adac
Here is another awesome photo by STICKMAN of the AX556 in action!
http://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/298327_150359488385980_106498542772075_280041_883431_n.jpg
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