View Full Version : Optic Suggestions - Anyone used eotech xps2-1?
I'm completely new to optics so I decided to do some experimenting.
The function I'm looking for is home defense/close range with the potential for added magnification. I know I'm looking for some type of RDS. I recently got an EOtech 512 with the LaRue mount. The only issue is my eyesight. I didn't know the reticle would be so blurry (I'm 20/70 in my right eye). I can distinguish the center dot without my glasses, and its perfectly clear with my glasses but I'm concerned with how effective I would be if had to grab my rifle quickly with no time to get the glasses. Its just one of those things that's gonna get to me.
As an alternative I was looking at aimpoints, specifically the Micro H-1 and Comp ML-3. Is it correct that people with poor eyesight do better with aimpoints? How do these optics compare to the EOtech when shooting with both eyes open?
Can anyone comment on these two, or provide any other ideas?
All help is appreciated.
Grunt Medic TXARNG
02-06-11, 22:17
I'm in a similar situation; I'm nearsighted in my dominant eye and have issues with resolving RDS and ACOG reticles. My short term solution will most likely be to go with a contact lens for that one eye (my other has normal vision) - and eventually looking into laser vision correction.
I have a 512, and get what you are talking about. I wear contacts, and I made my right eye for reading, since I'm right handed and use my right eye with pistols. The dot and circle isn't perfect, but when I turn the intensity down to where it's just bright enough to be useful, the blurring goes away almost entirely. I think a lot of people make the dot way to bright, which also seems to take your focus off your target, and onto the dot. Try dialing it back and see what you think.
There are a couple of threads here somewhere regarding what optics may work better for particular eye problems, but since every situation may be slightly different the best solution will be to try a variety of optics.
This could be done by visiting a local range and checking-out some other shooters rifles. I would particularly focus on the 3-gun type matches. Most shooters would likely allow you to try-out their optic, maybe even fire some rounds. I have personnally let many shooters try my rifles.
If that tact is not feasable then try to locate a well stocked dealer in your area. This has helped for me in my search, but it can be challenging to find a gunshop that stocks a lot of higher-end optics because of the costs/ money tied-up with the inventory.
Choosing an optic can really be a trial and error situation. There are many well informed and experienced members here. Although, it can be time consuming but reading through some of the older threads can be very educational. I would particularly pay attention to Failure2stop and Army Chief's comments. There are other good sources here but those two come immediately to mind.
I have spent close to $2K in the last year and a half on a variety of optics and several aimpoints. Sometimes, it can take some actual experience to really know if the optic is right for your particular need/ use.
In my quest, I have learned that at least for myself, the Aimpoint in whatever flavor is very effective and fast up close. You can also hit targets much farther away than one would think.
The Eotech is supposed to have a slightly blurry reticle and is similar to the Aimpoint. But, I would still suggest trying an Aimpoint first before moving further to something with magnification (pretty easy to find used/ or look at in a shop). Then consider a magnified optic or an RDS with a magnifier if it doesn't address you needs.
Just my thoughts.
Good luck in the search.
SkiDevil
The reticle is collimated to focus at infinity so you'll need the same vision correction to see the reticle clearly that you need to see the target. Uncorrected, you won't see an Aimpoint 2 MOA dot any more clearly than the Eotech 1 MOA dot. IMHO.
I have never used an Aimpoint, but I do have the Eotech 557 and magnifier on my rifle now. My eyesight is still good so I can not relate to that but I do know that even if the reticle is a little blurry to you it should not greatly affect your use of the rifle at close range. The great thing about the Eotech is being able to look at your target with both eyes and have the reticle super-imposed on it. Even being a little blurry, I think the HWS you have would fit the bill with a little practice. Just my .02.https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=7344&stc=1&d=1297054824
garrett686
02-06-11, 23:13
I just bought a Trijicon TR24 1-4x (green Triangle) and as for my means and anyone building a SHTF/Self Defense rifle i think you should look no further. This optic allows me to engage targets at a distance and put precise shots at 100 yards with the ability to keep both eyes open while doing so. Quick target acquisition and no batteries required. Only con is the price (close to 750).:eek:
I now have astigmatism and find Eotech/Aimpoint reticles increasingly distorted and difficult to use.
Optics w/a focusing ocular can correct for that, making both reticle & target crisp & sharp.
The Leupold Prismatic ($325) is a 1x optic that works well plus I'm using a Burris 1-4x Tac30 ($300) that at 1x I find to be as fast for me as anything else I've tried plus has the option of magnifcation.
HTH...
Tomac
STG-556 w/Leupold Prismatic:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofLeupoldPrismatic003.jpg
STG-556 w/Burris Tac30:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Tomac/ResizeofTac30Talon30003.jpg
For aging eyes or similar vision issues, there are several low power variables (with true 1x on the low end) that work much better than a RD. Something with true 1x at the low end plus a quick focus eye piece will do wonders.
I've used scopes all my life, but did OK with red dots at reasonable ranges until recently; despite some astigmatism. I've also fought left eye dominance all my life.
Moving to a 1-4 for general use - a Vortex PST in my case - has been the best decision I've made in a long time. Optics without true 1x, or seemingly true 1x to my eye, need not apply. They just don't work for my needs, which includes two eyes open at close range.
I now have astigmatism and find Eotech/Aimpoint reticles increasingly distorted and difficult to use.
I'm curious about that. A competent optometrist or ophthalmologist will prescribe lenses that correct your astigmatism, and a competent optician will grind those lenses accurately to his prescription. You should be able to see that reticle just fine if they have both done their jobs correctly.
For aging eyes or similar vision issues, there are several low power variables (with true 1x on the low end) that work much better than a RD. Something with true 1x at the low end plus a quick focus eye piece will do wonders.
I've used scopes all my life, but did OK with red dots at reasonable ranges until recently; despite some astigmatism.
I'm curious about that too. What do "aging eyes" have to do with ability to see the reticle in an RDS?
I'm curious about that. A competent optometrist or ophthalmologist will prescribe lenses that correct your astigmatism, and a competent optician will grind those lenses accurately to his prescription. You should be able to see that reticle just fine if they have both done their jobs correctly.
I'm curious about that too. What do "aging eyes" have to do with ability to see the reticle in an RDS?
I only need glasses for reading and the astigmatism is only noticeable when shooting w/an Eotech/Aimpoint/Trijicon/etc. I don't see the need to pay extra for "shooting-only glasses" when I can get the same benefit by going to a scope.
Tomac
I only need glasses for reading and the astigmatism is only noticeable when shooting w/an Eotech/Aimpoint/Trijicon/etc. I don't see the need to pay extra for "shooting-only glasses" when I can get the same benefit by going to a scope.
Tomac
OK, I get it. So, your astigmatism doesn't affect your distance vision? It's 20/20?
OK, I get it. So, your astigmatism doesn't affect your distance vision? It's 20/20?
Pretty close (had lasik a few years back).
Tomac
I'm curious about that. A competent optometrist or ophthalmologist will prescribe lenses that correct your astigmatism, and a competent optician will grind those lenses accurately to his prescription. You should be able to see that reticle just fine if they have both done their jobs correctly.
I'm curious about that too. What do "aging eyes" have to do with ability to see the reticle in an RDS?
I wish that corrective lenses could make older eyes young again, but it doesn't work that way. It's not only about seeing the dot - I personally do pretty well with a newish Micro - it's also about seeing the target. Even at 200 yards (maybe much closer) things are a lot different than they were four or five years ago. It's especially noticable in poor or harsh light. Even a small amount of magnification, along with the adjustable diopter focus on a variable, makes a huge difference.
Side by side testing also proved that I do better, two eyes open, at CQB range with a 1x variable. But that's for me, in daylight, with my own specific eye dominance issue - everyone is different.
My perception is the RD at room distance, with it's cleaner single dot illiminated reticle, retains some advantage *for me* in low light. But even that is mitigated with the use of a weapon light. Of course the ability to leave the RD switched on is a big plus in it's favor.
The Micro remains on my SD carbine for now, but if I could only have one rifle/one optic for everything, a 1-4 would be the clear winner.
I'm thinking the same thing about a single dot (Aimpoint) vs the EOtech reticle. I think a 2 moa blur would still be better than a 65 moa blur. I've just seen some other threads where people with poor vision prefer aimpoints.
I'm not familiar with optics and their nomenclature so the more technical and 1-4x arena is kind of intimidating. I like the idea of variable magnification but some of the scopes suggested are a bit bulky for me. I'd like something more light and compact; seems like an ACOG would suit this purpose but they're completely out my price range.
I'm thinking the same thing about a single dot (Aimpoint) vs the EOtech reticle. I think a 2 moa blur would still be better than a 65 moa blur. I've just seen some other threads where people with poor vision prefer aimpoints.
I'm not familiar with optics and their nomenclature so the more technical and 1-4x arena is kind of intimidating. I like the idea of variable magnification but some of the scopes suggested are a bit bulky for me. I'd like something more light and compact; seems like an ACOG would suit this purpose but they're completely out my price range.
Burris Tac30 weighs 13oz and costs $300.
Tomac
I'm thinking the same thing about a single dot (Aimpoint) vs the EOtech reticle. I think a 2 moa blur would still be better than a 65 moa blur.
The Eotech reticle is a 65 MOA ring around a 1 MOA dot. So it would be a 2 MOA blur compared to a 1 MOA blur. Or, the XPS series which can be had with only the dot, no ring.
For me, the ring blurs into the dot without glasses, so its basically a 65 moa splotch. Good info on the xps though, i didn't know they had the dot only.
The Eotech reticle is a 65 MOA ring around a 1 MOA dot. So it would be a 2 MOA blur compared to a 1 MOA blur. Or, the XPS series which can be had with only the dot, no ring.
The dot (or cross-hairs) in a magnified optic are not affected by astigmatism - no blur. But you should check that for yourself.
My normal glasses (no line bi-focal) are corrected for astigmatism, but my shooting glass are not and have distance vision lenses only. The shooting glass work better for me.
The 2 MOA on my ML3 dot requires too high a power setting to pick up on a black background was actually a step in the wrong direction. It works great for young eyes per my sons' comments, however.
I've been fighting this stuff for awhile. The PST 1-4 is my first magnified optic with true 1x, (but not my first scope by a long shot). If they ever offer the same reticle in the high end Razor HD line (along with some tweaks on the low light settings), I'm all over it.
Have you attempted to move the positioning of the EOTech back and forth on the rail to see if it gives you a clearer picture? Maybe placing it more far forward?
For close range use it does not seem to matter and you may not need magnification, I would still go with an EOTech. Although I do not have the eye problem, I find the EOTech ring easier to locate under stress than a simple dot on the Aimpoints. So that governs my selection. For close range, under stress, I would not feel the need for magnification.
The problem with EOTech, was that some of their rings were canted it what appeared to be a factory defect. The Hash marks at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock were not level. Although not related to the eye problem issue, I would also check into that possible defect with canting. I changed a lot of rails before seeing others had the same issue. So it was a nuisance trying to get perfection. Hope that problem is resolved now.
On a low budget, I stay away from Trijicon since the years go past very fast and I worry about having to send them back and the long wait to get it back, the expense, compared to a quick battery change.
Eric, maybe I missed it, but can you clarify if this is an issue you're having with the optic at home vs. out on the range?
My first RDS, a diamond-reticule Eotech, appeared horribly pixelated and blurry when I first looked through it at home, hand held. It didn't get a whole lot better when I mounted it up and stared at it at home. It got a little bit better when I was at the range trying to zero it. It wasn't until after I got out to the range and started running some drills with it that I didn't notice the blur at all. To this day my astigmatism causes some degree of blur in every red dot sight I use. How much I notice said blur depends on what I'm trying to do with it. In actual use I don't even think about it.
However, the Trijicon line of optics offer no blur to me whatsoever. I used a 3X compact ACOG with great success for several years. In very bright sunlight it blooms and makes precision shots more difficult, but there are workarounds for that. The Accupoint 1-4x can work equally well. Neither are as "fast" at close range as an RDS, and both cost more, as much as 2x more.
I have found no functional difference between the Aimpoint and Eotech when it comes to blur. The Eotech starts out with a smaller dot so it appears smaller after the bloom as well. Both are mitigated to a large degree by turning down the brightness. For me, in actual use, when the majority of shooting is done at 50 and in, the RDS is still the better option due to cost, weight, and speed.
I think it would have been a problem regardless of the setting. I rarely wear my glasses, I'm actually supposed to wear them when I drive but I usually don't unless I'm going to an unfamiliar area and I need to read street names. Its not like a can't see objects, especially moving ones, I just have a hard time reading text and objects don't look very crisp. I did notice that the EOtech looked clearer depending one the distance it was projecting to and the type of background it was. Looking out into the snow on a sunny day with the brightness turned up made it much clearer than looking at a wall across the room in moderate light even without glasses. I was shooting with my glasses at 50 yards to zero it. Without my glasses, I can definitely see the paper and the black circle but the red center is hard to see. At 50 yards, the reticule eclipsed the entire target without glasses. Placing the EOtech out further didn't make it any clearer, just larger. Since close quarters is my primary concern, I agree and RDS is the best option. I was looking at an EOtech xps2-1, the one with just a 1 moa dot. This seems like an excellent solution: no ring to get in the way, plus increased precision. I did a search on the xps2-1 and despite what you might think, most people didnt find the smaller dot difficult to acquire. Have you ever used an xps2-1, Rob?
No, the ring is about the only thing I like about the Eotech. For a smaller dot I like the Aimpoint C3 with 2 MOA dot, or would look at the new Aimpoint PRO you can get from G&R Tactical for $410 with mount.
Alaskapopo
02-10-11, 13:26
Have you attempted to move the positioning of the EOTech back and forth on the rail to see if it gives you a clearer picture? Maybe placing it more far forward?
For close range use it does not seem to matter and you may not need magnification, I would still go with an EOTech. Although I do not have the eye problem, I find the EOTech ring easier to locate under stress than a simple dot on the Aimpoints. So that governs my selection. For close range, under stress, I would not feel the need for magnification.
The problem with EOTech, was that some of their rings were canted it what appeared to be a factory defect. The Hash marks at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock were not level. Although not related to the eye problem issue, I would also check into that possible defect with canting. I changed a lot of rails before seeing others had the same issue. So it was a nuisance trying to get perfection. Hope that problem is resolved now.
On a low budget, I stay away from Trijicon since the years go past very fast and I worry about having to send them back and the long wait to get it back, the expense, compared to a quick battery change.
Trijicon scopes will work in daylight forever. The tritium does go bad eventually but the scopes are still usable.
Pat
Does anyone have any experience with the xps2-1 with just a 1 moa dot? Looking around on the web I can't find any videos or review on that specific model.
As I said before I think the 1 moa dot would be an excellent solution but I'm torn between that and the aimpoint CompML3. My only concerns with the aimpoint is that it may not go bright enough to see in total darkness or on a black or bright surface. It also seems that the EOtech would be better for both eyes open.
Alaskapopo
02-11-11, 15:45
Does anyone have any experience with the xps2-1 with just a 1 moa dot? Looking around on the web I can't find any videos or review on that specific model.
As I said before I think the 1 moa dot would be an excellent solution but I'm torn between that and the aimpoint CompML3. My only concerns with the aimpoint is that it may not go bright enough to see in total darkness or on a black or bright surface. It also seems that the EOtech would be better for both eyes open.
Its easier to see the dot in darkness so your statement does not make sense to me. The Aimpoint is every bit as bright as the Eotech and its a better built sight.
Both are easy to shoot with both eyes open. I shoot all optics and irons this way. You just have to train yourself.
Does anyone have any experience with the xps2-1 with just a 1 moa dot? Looking around on the web I can't find any videos or review on that specific model.
As I said before I think the 1 moa dot would be an excellent solution but I'm torn between that and the aimpoint CompML3. My only concerns with the aimpoint is that it may not go bright enough to see in total darkness or on a black or bright surface. It also seems that the EOtech would be better for both eyes open.
I agree with PoPo that at night particularly, you really want to dial the brightness down on any RDS, so I don't understand the question. Both the Eotech and Aimpoints in my experience accommodate any lighting condition, total darkness to bright sunlight.
For my part, I prefer the Eotechs. Partly for their reticle with the ring and partly because they're easier for me to shoot both eyes open. The reason for that IMHO is less "tube" effect, which for me makes for less critical head position in order to get the reticle into view of my dominant eye. I find I can pick up the reticle much quicker and get my aiming done more efficiently with the Eotechs than with the Aimpoints. I worked my T-1 on my SBR for months...just couldn't warm up to it. No denying that the Aimpoints are popular, and a well-made RDS, though. If it works for you, Aimpoint is always a good choice.
Ooof *slaps head* I guess it would make sense that its easier to see the dot in low light.
The more I look at the aimpoints, the more they grown on me. The lens caps, battery life, and switching mechanism are all pluses. Its hard to know which will work best for me without actually looking through them but I think I might jump on an aimpoint.
For $100 price difference, what are the differences between the Comp ml3 and the PRO?
ac130usnsr
02-12-11, 14:59
Ooof *slaps head* I guess it would make sense that its easier to see the dot in low light.
The more I look at the aimpoints, the more they grown on me. The lens caps, battery life, and switching mechanism are all pluses. Its hard to know which will work best for me without actually looking through them but I think I might jump on an aimpoint.
For $100 price difference, what are the differences between the Comp ml3 and the PRO?
For $100 more, the CompML3 gives you 50k hours of battery life vs the PRO's 30k. You also get a choice of 2 or 4 MOA reticle vs the PRO's 2 MOA reticle. What you don't get is the PRO's NVD settings and the free QRP2 mount. Everything else is the same.
I have the XPS Eotech with the single dot. I prefer the heads up of the EOtech vs the tube like Aimpoint, although I have to agree the Aimpoint is better built and the battery life is no contest.
The single dot I am very happy with and can be seen in bright daylight.
I decided to ante up for an aimpoint m4s and I have no regrets whatsoever. It's a phenomenal sight. My main concern was field of view but IMO the aimpoint tube FOV is equal to the Eotech. The sight is rugged, the reticle is crisp and its deadly accurate. It was a hard hit for my wallet by I love it.
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