View Full Version : P30 & HK45c cocked and locked
Gentlemen, thanks to much great input here on this site, I have decided to purchase an HKP30 and HK45c. I would like to carry them cocked and locked because (a) after many years of 1911 carry, that is what I am used to, and (b) I do not like the first shot double action.
First tell me if there is something wrong with my thinking. Have I missed the boat on the LEM trigger?
Second, it appears that I should purchase the HK45c "DA/SA with control lever" version and not the HK45c "LEM enhanced DAO model without control lever". Please tell me if I have misunderstood.
Third, But what version of the HK30 matches up with that? Is it version 0? There are 7 versions of the HK30 and the written descriptions leave me unclear as to which is which.
http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/p30_general.asp
The P30 Trigger Variants:
P30 (V0):
Innovative safety trigger with concealed cocking piece in the spurred hammer. Centrally located de-cocking button, with a constant enhanced double action only Law Enforcement Modification (LEM)* trigger pull of approximately 4.5 pounds (20 Newtons) without operation of the de-cocking latch, and defined let-off point.
P30 V1:
Innovative safety trigger with concealed cocking piece in the spurrless hammer, without de-cocking button. Constant LEM trigger pull of approximately 4.5 pounds (20 Newtons) and defined let-off point.
P30 V2:
Like P30 V1 but with LEM trigger pull of approximately 7.3 pounds (32.5N).
P30 V3:
Conventional single action/double action (SA/DA) trigger without cocking piece in the hammer with spur and centrally located decocking button.
P30 V4:
Like P30 V1, however LEM trigger pull approximately 6.2 pounds (27.5N).
P30 V6:
Conventional double action only (DAO) trigger without cocking piece in the spurrless hammer. Constant DAO trigger pull of approximately 8.8 pounds (39N).
Not all variants available in some regions.
* also known as Combat Defense Action (CDA)[/quote]
Here are my personal and unqualified(even though I've owned both and shot the P30 almost exclusively for 2 years to around 13k rounds) opinions.
1 - LEM is a personal choice. I found that with the LEM, in my P30 especially, the trigger break caused me to constantly dip my wrists and I shot low. The LEM in my HK45c wasn't too bad and I never had the issues with trigger/trigger trough bite like I got with my P30 LEM.
2 - You are correct. If you want a true 1911 style safety lever too, call HK and order the V9 plate. That will make your safety strictly a safety and not a safety/decocker.
3 - You want a P30S; this is the model with the thumb safety. It will be like the V3 you listed, but with a thumb safety. There were a few P30S LEMs imported, but those go for a premium so you probably won't be picking that up.
Hope that helps.
3 - You want a P30S; this is the model with the thumb safety. It will be like the V3 you listed, but with a thumb safety.
+1
To have P30 in SA/DA with Condition 1 carry you need to have P30S V3 (or P30LS V3 if you opt for longer slide).
As to LEM trigger - I first used it in P2000 some 10 years ago. I loved it for 500 rounds, then hated it for next 1500 rounds. Then I loved it again with true love :) Since then I had it in all my HKs, including my USP Expert that I used for IPSC shooting. However I can imagine that some people just can not get along with LEM.
Cylinder Head
02-08-11, 08:11
Gentlemen, thanks to much great input here on this site, I have decided to purchase an HKP30 and HK45c. I would like to carry them cocked and locked because (a) after many years of 1911 carry, that is what I am used to, and (b) I do not like the first shot double action.
First tell me if there is something wrong with my thinking. Have I missed the boat on the LEM trigger?
Second, it appears that I should purchase the HK45c "DA/SA with control lever" version and not the HK45c "LEM enhanced DAO model without control lever". Please tell me if I have misunderstood.
Third, But what version of the HK30 matches up with that? Is it version 0? There are 7 versions of the HK30 and the written descriptions leave me unclear as to which is which.
]
First off, excellent choice in firearms. You're going to absolutely love them.
I don't think you've missed the boat on the LEM. Some people love it, some hate it. The way you're planning on carrying them you won't miss out on anything.
You're spot on about the HK45c, that's the version to go for. For the P30, you want the P30S as has been said previously. The P30 V3 is the DA/SA with decocker but has no safety.
Be sure to dry fire the hell out of them to smooth out the triggers and when running the P30 for the first 200 rounds make sure you're putting hotter loads through it or it may FTF.
gtmtnbiker98
02-08-11, 08:36
Not much to add, other than LEM is not "the end all, be all" for all shooters. I tried the LEM on a P2000 and constantly shot low when shooting at speed. After this failed attempt, I never looked back and I'll be staying in the DA/SA camp for a long while (at least until HK comes out with a SFA non P7 variant).
The P30S is the only option for Cond. 1 and the standard HK45/c V1 will suffice for your needs. Best of luck and welcome to the "right side."
As always, excellent input. Thank you!
Not much to add, except to make sure that you try to operate the safety as much as possible before plinking down lots of your hard earned cash. I though the HK45 would enable me to carry condition 1 but the location of the safety lever combined with my small hands made that impossible. I would have required double jointed thumbs to make it work reliable. Under stress it was a DEFINITE no go for me.
Nice choices in pistols. I've shot and carried 1911's for 20 years or so, but I decided to join the modern age and got myself an HK45c. I found that shooting the HK with my thumb riding the safety (as I was used to) it messed with my grip. Even with the detent plate to stop the pistol from decocking, the lever is not the same as a 1911 safety, and it forced me to change my grip. Wilson, Mueschke, Ed Brown etc. all put my thumb in a different position. I personally could not get past this. I put in a light LEM and love it.
Good to know. If push comes to shove, I can LEM them. Until then, I will give the safeties a go.
I have a P30ls v1 LEM, granted I just picked it up and only have 650 rounds down range with it, I have found that for me riding the saftey is the ticket for me. No decock to deal with and the LEM trigger is smoothing out some, it was not gritty but the timing on reset and length of pull was throwing me off. Not being able to carry it in the traditional cocked and locked does not bother me, the pull on a v1 LEM is pretty light.
With that being said I just got in another 1k of 9mm to run through before I call it my edc.
I ordered a P30S. When it comes I plan to order an HK45c made in Deutschland. I will let you guys know how these work out.
Nice choices in pistols. I've shot and carried 1911's for 20 years or so, but I decided to join the modern age and got myself an HK45c. I found that shooting the HK with my thumb riding the safety (as I was used to) it messed with my grip. Even with the detent plate to stop the pistol from decocking, the lever is not the same as a 1911 safety, and it forced me to change my grip. Wilson, Mueschke, Ed Brown etc. all put my thumb in a different position. I personally could not get past this. I put in a light LEM and love it.
For what its worth, my 1911 friends that shoot my USP V1 do the same thing. If you apply downward pressure to the decocker, at some point it will not fire either.
Before I converted my Hk45c to LEM, I never had a problem decocking the gun or tying up the gun. It takes some good force to push the lever past parallel.
Before getting the variant 9 plate that disables the de-cocking function, I noticed inadvertent de-cocking when shooting on the move and shooting +P ammo -- probably all those years of pushing down on the 1911 thumb safety.
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