AAR:VICKERS Carbine 1,FEB 6-7 2011,College Station TX

[BWW]

I'm going to make a short overview with the hope other class members can do a better AAR. I just now am able to get on my laptop and my notes are still not organized. I was able to spend 4 days with Mr Vickers at CCC. The first 2 were a pistol class and the last 2 were this carbine class.
First THANKS to Mr Hotaling and Grey Group for making this happen. Its great to have the wealth of instructors that Grey Group has to offer scheduling classes down here in Texas.
Second THANKS to Mr Struve the owner of Cawthon Cartridge Club in hosting these events. He has a fantastic facility, just check out there website and you can see all they have to offer.
Now to Mr Vickers. He needs no intro from me. The LAV was finally able to get his clothing and gear after having to do without them in the previous 2 day pistol class. The weather was great day 1 in the 60's. Day 2 was in the 50's with a strong north wind. The class was the usual mix of current and former military, l.e and civilians. I won't spend alot on what drills were done, but I will say that everything Mr. Vickers does is held to high standards with accuracy. The LAV is all about what works and no fluff. Leave the gaming CHIT at home or you will be crucified(just ask me). LAV has opinions about certain things and he WILL tell you about them. He has hard earned lessons that he is willing to share and that alone is worth the price of admission. If you can do a LAV class do it. If you can make it to CCC for any of Grey Group's classes do it.
Also, I had the fortune to make several new friends which is always a plus in classes. M4C's very own retreat hell was in attendance and kick'in ass. The AK guy ringing steal at 125 yds. and several others holding there own. Great class, Great facility and with the LAV . Need I say more
Brad W

[RetreatHell]

On February 6-7, 2011 out at the Cawthon Cartridge Club in College Station, Texas, Larry A Vickers of Vickers Tactical conducted a Level 1 Carbine course. Paul Hotaling of Grey Group Training put it all together, but was unfortunately unable to attend.

There were several M4Carbine members in attendance. I finally got to meet my boy "TwoSqueeze" and shoot his awesome 11.5" BCM gun, as well as meeting several other M4Carbine members including "BWW" and "snaf." Great meeting you guys! And you'll notice in the pics below that TwoSqueeze is wearing a pink Raven holster. Just FYI it's for breast cancer awareness, so don't be like me and make fun of him for it and call him a homo, only THEN to realize what it represents.... boy was that an awkward moment, doh!!

This was my first time training with LAV. I've been wanting to train under him for just about forever, give or take a day or two, so I was really excited for this class. This is now the third Basic Carbine course I've taken, and was probably the most basic of the three. However, I think there's ALWAYS more to learn, regardless of how "basic" the class may or may not be. But still, I've gotta get my ass to an advanced class next time. It's time to move forward. But when I saw an opportunity to train with Larry Vickers, I didn't care what level of class it was, I was going to take advantage. This was obviously the very same line of thinking that half of the other students in the class had as well, because there were some damn experienced and locked-on shooters in this class. Much more so than I'm used to seeing in basic classes anyways. I think that's a real testament to the level of respect that Larry Vickers has earned within the shooting and training community.

I want to also add that Larry Vickers is one funny sumbitch! The guy has a very relaxed training atmosphere and constantly says shit that makes you laugh. He's a major smartass, too. Whenever someone would screw up something easy and stupid, he'd make damn sure that they AND everyone else knew it. He'd make fun of them and give them shit about it, but in a funny way and not a dickhead way. I can tell you from experience that whenever you get called out for doing something stupid (like a couple examples I'll mention in a little bit), and the class laughs at you, then you will NEVER do said stupid thing again. Trust me on that! And the rest of the students won't either. It'll be something you'll always remember, and you know that you don't ever want to be "that" guy. But like I said, it's all in a good-spirited funny way.

Before I get started on Training Day 1, I need to get something out of the way first: I shot like complete ASS at this class! I don't give a shit what any of my fellow students may or may not say, I shot for shit. I don't know quite what it was, but I do know that it was definitely me and not any piece of kit or some other lame excuse. Maybe it was something in the water at College Station that made me just suck really bad… I mean, it IS the home of the Aggies, so that would make the most sense to me (Oooohhhh!! ZING!! Go Longhorns!!!). Kidding (sort of). I guess it was just one of those days… two days in a row, lol! Whatever, it happens. But it does still piss me off to no end whenever I don't preform at the level that I know I can, and have in the past.

I also got worn out like crazy in this class! Particularly my arms and chest. I pushed out to the 100 yard-line and back about 5+ times throughout the class, which is 1,000 yards for those of you who failed math (don't worry, I failed it too). The further out you got, the worse the terrain of the range got. On TD2 I finally put a little of my pride aside and asked for help a few times, and had a couple of the guys help push my wheelchair for me whenever we did a walk-back drill. Thanks to my fellow students who helped me out in general throughout the class, whether it was pushing me or (mainly) helping me by carrying my gun or piece of gear during lunch or whenever, I greatly appreciate it! And thanks for sharing your food with me on TD1, since I found out a little too late that there's nothing resembling a restaurant within 20+ minutes of the range.

Guns and Gear

I was running my new Bravo Company Manufacturing 14.5" Mid-Length upper with a permanently attached PWS FSC556 SM (Suppressor Mount) compensator, designed to accept my Knights Armament NT4-QDSS suppressor. It was sitting atop a BCM lower as well. This is my first all-BCM gun, and I REALLY love it! The upper and lower fit really well together too. Now, I know everyone says this doesn't matter or make any bit of difference (including myself until recently), but when you're shooting suppressed it actually does. The tighter fitting the upper and lower are, the less gas blowback leaks out all over your facial area. Other than that though, it's just a nice bonus I guess. My gun ran perfect throughout the 2-day class with zero issues, which is really the norm nowadays with BCM guns. I only shot suppressed for a very limited number of rounds, mainly because the heavy ass 1.5-pound Knight's NT4 can gets really friggin' heavy on a 14.5" gun.

I also ran the new(ish) Geissele Super 3-Gun trigger (S3G). It's a super light single-stage trigger with a really short pull that breaks at about 3.5 lbs. I'm really digging this new trigger. It allows me to shoot fairly quickly and accurately without occasionally getting hung-up like I do with the two-stage Geissele SSA trigger. Although none of this was particularly advantageous in the course, since Larry Vickers isn't exactly a fan of the, err.. "dynamic" shooting styles. After all, the Vickers Tactical motto is "Speed Is Fine, Accuracy Is Final." That pretty much sums that up.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Vickers%20Tactical%20Basic%20Carbine%20Feb%202011/IMG_0136.jpg


Training Day 1

We started out by getting a good Zero on our guns. Everyone there was running either an Aimpoint or EOTech. LAV prefers students use the 100 yard zero over the other popular options. However, so long as you know and understand your preferred zero, then he's fine with you using whichever you prefer. I have been using the 50/200yd zero for roughly the past 2 years now, ever since first learning of it on the M4Carbine forum. So that's what I ran throughout the class. We shot our zeros at 25 yards and then made our way out to the 100 yard line to confirm. I had zeroed my Aimpoint Micro T-1 red dot sight prior to attending the class, so I just needed to confirm my Dope.

Our first lesson of the course came during the first 30 minutes: LOCTITE YOUR OPTIC MOUNT(S)!!! This is pretty basic shit, but there was one student that, for whatever reason, didn't use blue loctite on his Aimpoint mount and sure enough he couldn't seem to get a consistent group. No shit, right? The student was running some kind of H&K 5.56 MP5-ish SBR thingy, which he tossed aside because he couldn't get the mount tightened. So he ran his actual H&K MP5 9mm SMG (actual full auto variety) instead, even though myself and another M4Carbine member, TwoSqueeze, offered him our backup guns to use. We were both running BCM guns as our primaries, so we knew only an act of God Himself would cause them to go down.

Also remember to LUBE YOUR GUN!!! The same student whose optic mount was loose also had an extraction malfunction with his backup gun, the H&K MP5, because it was as dry as Dane Cook's stand-up. As with the loose optic mount, there's seriously no reason whatsoever for your ****ing gun to be dry at a damn training class!! Squirt a damn good amount of Slip 2000 EWL in that bitch, or whatever other lesser-quality lubricant you might be using, and keep it wet ALL of the time, and you'll likely have no issues.

I personally thought it rather odd that it was this particular student whose mount was loose and had a dry backup gun, because other than that he seemed to be a pretty squared away and good shooter. Shit happens, I guess.

This is the first class that I've run my Troy Industries folding backup irons in the "Up" position. Larry explained that not only is this very useful for when your optic goes down (although for those of us running an Aimpoint red dot sight, that is highly unlikely to ever happen), but that it primarily comes into play whenever you shoulder your gun and your red dot is washed out by the sun, or more than likely not turned up bright enough either from poor planning or when coming out of a dark environment and you forget to readjust the intensity. I've actually never heard this explained like that before, but it was one of those times where it instantly clicked in your brain and you think to yourself, "No shit!", and wonder why you didn't already think of that before. In the past, I always thought that running the gun with both sights flipped up (or running fixed BUIS) was just too "busy" for me when looking through the Aimpoint Micro T-1's smaller tube. But I should've tried using it for more than a magazine or two, because I had absolutely ZERO issues with my sight picture being screwed up, and I didn't even notice the folded-up BUIS.

LAV is really big on team competitions. It puts a LOT more pressure on the individual shooter, because if he shoots poorly or makes a mistake he's not just ****ing himself, he's letting the whole team down. I found this to be an extremely effective training aid and, as with everything else in his curriculum, it goes along well with the reoccurring "Accuracy Is Final" them of a Vicker's Tactical class. And as in the real world, there are no do-overs with the majority of the drills we performed throughout the course (for the most part). For instance, several times we did a "walk-back" drill where we'd start from 25 yards and make our way back to 150 yards, getting 2 tries at each yard line to hit a 12" steel plate. If you missed both times, that was it. No refunds. Next shooter up. You found yourself REALLY wanting an opportunity to fire a third round at the target to try and make your hit. And it was frustrating as hell whenever you missed both shots.

As a result, most of us hit the plate at almost every yard line every time. I missed at the 125 yard line, but realized immediately afterwards that it was simply because I forgot to hold low. Since I had a 50 yard zero, I sailed both rounds just over the steel plate when I held in the center of the target. So when I got back to 150 yards I held slightly low and drilled the plate with the first round. It's also worth noting that those of us who ran suppressors other than Surefire brands had quite a bit of zero-shift out past 100 yards, causing us to have very close misses. Those with Surefire cans didn't have any misses due to zero-shift. This is all unscientific of course, so take it for what it's worth.

After we ate lunch on TD1 we had roughly an hour-long handgun familiarization course, so that LAV would feel comfortable with us transitioning to our Secondaries whenever we ran dry or had malfunctions with our Primaries for the remainder of the course. I brought my Glock 26 with me to this class, in a Comp-Tac MTAC Minotaur IWB holster. It's what I carry every day concealed, so I figured I'd bring it instead of my much easier to shoot Glock 19. I quickly learned that I REALLY need to train more with my sub-compact G26. Wow. I was straight up horrible with the thing! I probably should've shot it a bit before the class though, especially since I'd literally just installed some new Warren Tactical sights that I haven't ever run before on any handgun. I learned my lesson there for sure.

We also ran some drills shooting weak/support/reaction side. I told Larry I have always had problems with this because my balance gets all thrown out of whack and my body wants to fall forward in my chair, which is annoying and not a good thing. So he had me try a new technique of simply keeping my hands set where they always are (right hand on pistol grip, left hand on vert-grip/rail) and instead move only the butt-stock to my opposite shoulder. This worked surprisingly well, and since the Magpul MS2 sling really tightens up when I do this, I can be pretty damn precise with my shot placement as well whenever shooting like this. I'm pretty happy with this new technique and look forward to continuing to train using it. I even made a hit at 100+ yards using this new off-hand technique, which was pretty surprising to me.

We finished up TD1 with a walk-back drill and called it a day.


Training Day 2

We started the next day by running drills based on the techniques we learned the previous day. We then worked on reloads. I was once again using a "tactical satchel" (i.e. man-purse) to stow my 4+ magazines in. I ran a new one that I bought recently from Larue Tactical. It's the Hawkpacks brand Bug-Out Bag, with the Larue logo on the outside of it. It's also in Multicam, which I hear is all the rage these days. I had to take the scissors to it and cut away some of the top portion (along with several of the excess straps that were in my way) so I could more easily get my hand in the bag to draw my magazines out of it. The magazines were in a 4-mag magazine pouch that has velcro on the back (male-end) that connects to the velcro (female-end) inside the Hawkpacks bag. This worked well for me, as my "Sneaky Bag" has in the past. However, this bag is much better designed and built. You can just tell by looking at it that the quality is a million times better than the Sneaky Bag, and it's also quite a bit cheaper too. I do still need to take the scissors to it some more so I can get a better grip deeper down on the magazine when doing a reload. The only problem with this is that I REALLY need it to be sewn afterwards, and I have absolutely ZERO seamstress abilities.

On TD2 we also did turning drills, went over clearing the different malfunctions, and did some shooting on the move. Larry said that he believes there's more of a need for shooting on the move than most other instructors typically emphasize. So it's something he really likes to work on with students, and we spent a couple hours on it. The terrain was a low-cut grass field, some of which cattle graze in whenever the owner isn't around to drive them off. So it wasn't exactly the best surface for someone like myself to shoot on the move from a wheelchair. My target was insanely bad! Or "dynamic" as Larry called it after I got on the trigger during one run and fired a quick 8-round burst out of frustration. Due to my chair bumping around like crazy with a fellow student pushing me, my Aimpoint's red dot was bouncing around the target the whole time. It was more funny than anything, as it's not exactly like I'll ever be shooting on the move with a carbine in a cow pasture anytime soon.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Vickers%20Tactical%20Basic%20Carbine%20Feb%202011/IMG_0223.jpg

We finished up the end of Training Day 2 by having another team competition involving shooting while on the move. I didn't participate in this one because I didn't want to buddy-**** my teammates since my target looked like it was shot by an autistic kid with a shotgun instead of crippled Marine with a carbine. So I took lots of pictures of the other students and captured some good video instead, a lot of which I'll be posting over the coming days/weeks in this thread. I've gotten a little better with the whole picture taking thing, but still have a lot to learn.


Final Thoughts

Overall I had a great time in this class! As I stated before, I really need to take an advanced carbine course, and I've decided that'll definitely be my next course. It's just harder to find one, I assume because only the more dedicated of us shooters actually attend them. But I had a blast training with Larry Vickers and I'm very glad I attended this class. I also want to say that if you've never taken a carbine course before and have zero training on the gun, this is an OUTSTANDING first class for you to take! One of the students had absolutely no experience with the M4/AR15 platform -he had literally just zeroed his irons a week before the class, and that was the extent of his carbine experience- and by the end of the class he was drilling 12" steel plates at 150 yards, shooting very decent groups on the move, and generally running the gun very efficiently and shooting pretty accurately overall. I think that says a lot about Larry Vickers and his talent and effectiveness as an instructor. I was extremely impressed with this student. He's the one wearing the purple hoody in the pics below, which I'll admit is kinda gay, but I'll give him a pass since he's a new shooter who performed very well and is also sporting a beard. I can't remember your name dude, but great job, brother!;)

There was also a student with an AK-47 that I've gotta give props to. He ran the living SHIT out of that AK, and demonstrated to us all how accurate and effective the weapon can be when it's in well-trained and capable hands. Almost makes me wanna go out and buy myself an Arsenal AK-47… almost.

One thing I gotta be honest about is that I really wish we had shot more rounds in this class. I have to admit I was disappointed with the low round-count. I was definitely not expecting to shoot near as many rounds as I did in my previous Magpul Dynamics Carbine 1 course, but I only fired a total of 475 rounds throughout both days of training, around 90+ of which were fired during lunch on TD2 whenever myself and 5 other students used some of our chow time to get some more trigger time in. I was also firing 1 or 2+ more rounds during most drills than what was called for, so that's a pretty low round count compared to what I'm used to shooting. I just would've liked to have shot a lot more and gotten more trigger time and run more repetitions during each drill, especially since I don't take training classes all the time. Several of the other students I spoke with mentioned this same thing to me during conversations we had together. However I do have to admit that every last round counted and was certainly put to good use. If I had been running a 2-day mission into Taliban-controlled territory in Afghanistan, instead of training in a basic carbine class behind enemy lines in Aggie-Land, Texas, I would've not only killed a shit-ton of smelly bearded men, but I would've been able to make it back to friendly lines with a little extra ammo in my combat load-out as well. I don't a ****ing clue if that analogy makes any sense whatsoever, but it took me a couple minutes to think it up, so I'm leaving that shit in.

So the lack of trigger finger workouts was really the only semi-negative thing both myself and fellow students (that I talked to) could find to say about this class. Other than that, it kicked major ass and I for one cannot wait for LAV and Vickers Tactical to come back down to College Station, Texas for some more advanced training. I just really hope I don't have to wait forever to see him down here again.

Thanks again to the owner of the Cawthon Cartridge Club gun range for hosting our class(es) at your great facility. This place is pretty damn cool and I for one plan on getting out to their 1,000-yard range and banging some steel someday in the near future. He said he could get me on steel in under 30 minutes at 1,000 yards, so I plan on putting that to the test. CCC also had a Wheelchair Accessible porta-john toilet brought out there to the range for me, which I'm extremely grateful for! I know it's just a shitter, but it was my shitter and meant a lot to me, so thank you. One request though, please for the love of God smooth out those blasted speed bumps on the bridge, as baby Jesus cries every time awesome cars like mine bottom out over those damn things…. pretty, pretty please! Thanks to Larry Vickers for an outstanding class, and I really do hope you come back down within a year (hopefully) for the advanced pistol/carbine courses. Also thanks for your service to our country and all that you have done for it and us during your time in Army SF. Finally, thanks again to Paul Hotaling of Grey Group for getting LAV down here and putting on this class! We are all VERY thankful for your efforts and I for one look forward to working (and hopefully training) with you in the future. PLEASE DO continue to get great instructors to teach their courses at CCC in College Station, as it's a great facility and pretty damn convenient for all of us in Houston, as there's nowhere else around here really that's suitable and/or convenient enough for these types of courses. A precision course out there would be really friggin' cool!

To my fellow students, I really enjoyed training with you all and shooting the shit during breaks, and am happy to have met all of you guys. I look forward to seeing you all in the future, both on and off the range. Take care and Semper Fi!

[RetreatHell]

The man himself, live and in the flesh:
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Vickers%20Tactical%20Basic%20Carbine%20Feb%202011/IMG_0103.jpg


Demonstrating Strong-to-Weak side transition with the Blue Force Gear Vickers Combat Applications Sling (BFG-VCAS):
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[RetreatHell]

Getting ready for some shooting and moving
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Shooting and moving
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[RetreatHell]

The LAV showing how it's done
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[RetreatHell]

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Purple Hoody Bearded Guy!! You rock, brother!!!

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Vickers%20Tactical%20Basic%20Carbine%20Feb%202011/IMG_0273.jpg

[RetreatHell]

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Vickers%20Tactical%20Basic%20Carbine%20Feb%202011/IMG_0260.jpg

[pleaforwar]

Excellent write up Paul.

I've noticed that some top-notch trainers are going through College Station. I may have to come back home (originally from the Houston area) to attend a course.

[RetreatHell]

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[RetreatHell]

Well **** YOU TOO, asshole!!:p

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Vickers%20Tactical%20Basic%20Carbine%20Feb%202011/IMG_0244.jpg

[theblackknight]

Dynamic!

[TwoSqueeze]

Thanks for getting us started Brad. Great write up Paul. This was an awesome class that really focuses on the basics and accuracy. Great group of guys in the class. Everyone was safe and a joy to shoot the shit with. The only down side that I can see is what Paul mentioned about shooting more rounds, but I can always do that at home practicing the fundamentals that were stressed.

The added bonus of getting some AK knowledge and seeing how well one can be run was outstanding. All in all everyone shot pretty well, yes even you Paul, with the exception of your "Dynamic" shooting on the move;) I was in shock that you were able to ring the steel out to 125yds with the funky weakside hold that Larry showed you! I highly reccomend that everyone that is into firearms training get to an LAV class at some point. You will deffinately learn or relearn something and have a few laughs too. Now I just can't wait for Hackathorn's Advanced Pistol Class in March.

Oh yeah and one more down side, I went the whole class with what I thought was the beginning of a stress fracture in my foot or some tendinitis. Turns out the my second metatarsal was broken clean through. Like they say if your gonna be dumb you gotta be tough:D

Cheers,
-TS

[VA_Dinger]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

More photos from this class;

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[VA_Dinger]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com


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[RetreatHell]

Here's a few more videos I just posted on YouTube of some of the Team Drills we ran in the class:

Team Drill -Carbine and Handgun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1HfCQZVVP8)

Team Drill -Carbine to Handgun Transition 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMsBF9ZruMc)

Team Drill -Carbine to Handgun Transition 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd9asLGahSc)

Team Drill -Carbine to Handgun Transition 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjMjAziIoaA)


Thanks Paul H for posting those pics! I have them on my iPad, but now I don't have to mess with them;)

[RetreatHell]

This dude's Surefire MINI was pretty damn cool, I can't wait until I get mine!

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Vickers%20Tactical%20Basic%20Carbine%20Feb%202011/IMG_0239.jpg

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Vickers%20Tactical%20Basic%20Carbine%20Feb%202011/IMG_0247.jpg

[RetreatHell]

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Vickers%20Tactical%20Basic%20Carbine%20Feb%202011/IMG_0275.jpg

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[SeriousStudent]

I had signed up for this class and the pistol class, but had to drop out due to work. :(

It really does look like you guys had a great training experience. I'll hoping Mr. Vickers returns next year.

[RetreatHell]

More video I just uploaded:

Larry Vickers on the AK-47's Accuracy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J13BFhQiUwo)


SeriousStudent,
A great time was had by all, man. You missed a really cool training experience. I also am REALLY hoping he'll come back out next year for Level II Carbine.

[sadmin]

nice meeting you guys & thanks for the pics Paul. Thanks to GG for coordinating.

Take Care,
Matt

[bprice01]

Well **** YOU TOO, asshole!!:p

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv219/RetreatHell/Vickers%20Tactical%20Basic%20Carbine%20Feb%202011/IMG_0244.jpg

Ha. Glad you noticed!

My thoughts from the class:

- If you get a chance to take a course at Cawthon Cartridge Club be sure you pack a lunch. Bring your own coffee and water, as well. The facility is still a work in progress. I would have also like to have seen marked distances on the range rather than having to guess all the time. And you have to pick up all the brass when class is over. Otherwise, it's a great place to train.

- The "AK Guy" is an instructor at a new school called Gravick Ranch in South Texas. I'll email him and see if he will let me put his address up here. He made me want an AK.

- The dude with the SureFire Mini is a Jr. in High School and can shoot about 10x better than me.

- I had a great time in the class and learn a lot about shooting the carbine. LAV gave us some great drills to take home and practice to improve on our own. He runs an informative class, but it is pretty loosely structured. As a military instructor in a different type of career field (highly structured), that was an adjustment for me. Flexibility is the key!

- The team drills were great. Adding the stress of being on a team really enhanced my focus and made me strive to make every shot count.

[SKULL1]

nice job for the AAR and pictures/videos Paul..:neo:

can't wait to be in a vickers class sometime next year..:dance3:

[eternal24k]

great writeup and what looks like a great class.
A lot of nice rigs too

[snaf]

A great class and it was a pleasure to meet everyone there. Huge thanks for LAV for coming to teach and GG and CCC for hosting and arranging everything.

some quick notes from the class:

-LAV is a hilarious smartass and his teaching style is awesome. If he doesn't like something (optics, tactical doodads) he'll be sure to let you know. He knows what works and what doesn't.

-The speedbumps on the bridge ate the bottom of my car alive going to the range :(

-Team drills are awesome and definitely made me try my hardest not to let the team down

-Definitely pack a lunch if going to cawthon range, me and my friends almost didn't until a class mate recommended that we bring some powerbars and some snack JIC. Thankfully we did otherwise we'd have been screwed since nothing is remotely closeby.

-I wish I could redo the shooting on the move drill where my gun malfunctioned and i forgot to transition.."monkey ****ing a football" indeed as I fumbled to clear it and wasted so much time :(

-Thanks to the Laredo guys for being cool and also letting me run your 212 can on my rifle.


Great first class for me and my friends, and definitely not the last for sure..

[eternal24k]

anybody run a pistol/RMR combo?

[RetreatHell]

Ha. Glad you noticed!

- The dude with the SureFire Mini is a Jr. in High School and can shoot about 10x better than me.

Damn man, I KNEW he looked young as hell but I didn't wanna be rude, lol, I thought he was just one of those dudes who aged very slowly!:p

Makes a LOT of sense now! The guns/kit he was running was pretty badass, lucky little shit! I never knew a single damn person at that age with anything even remotely as cool as all that.


And yeah, I saw you giving me the "You're #1!" sign while editing the pics a couple days after class, gave me a good laugh!:D

[RetreatHell]

anybody run a pistol/RMR combo?

Actually I think that's what LAV was running if I'm not mistaking it. I know it was a red dot on his 1911, just not sure which brand though. I got some video of him running it. I'll post if sometime this week. This shit (video) takes a lot longer than pics though.

[RetreatHell]

nice job for the AAR and pictures/videos Paul..:neo:

can't wait to be in a vickers class sometime next year..:dance3:

Thanks dude. Still got quite a bit more to post. Just taking a break from it.

You'll really enjoy training with him, dude!

[SKULL1]

Thanks dude. Still got quite a bit more to post. Just taking a break from it.

You'll really enjoy training with him, dude!

Looking forward to it Paul.. i'm only allowed to go to classes 3X a year and i already used it for this year..:fie:

can't wait to see the remaining pix.. more videos would be awesome too..

[TwoSqueeze]

Actually I think that's what LAV was running if I'm not mistaking it. I know it was a red dot on his 1911, just not sure which brand though. I got some video of him running it. I'll post if sometime this week. This shit (video) takes a lot longer than pics though.

It was a deltapoint on a G19. He had it out after lunch on TD1. I asked him what happened to the RMR and he said that it had zero shift issues on him. Also, just for everyone's information, LAV commented that he believes we are still a ways off from companies perfecting the RDS for handguns. I will withhold judgment until I can get my hands on one for some T&E.

Cheers,
TS

[RetreatHell]

It was a deltapoint on a G19. He had it out after lunch on TD1. I asked him what happened to the RMR and he said that it had zero shift issues on him. Also, just for everyone's information, LAV commented that he believes we are still a ways off from companies perfecting the RDS for handguns. I will withhold judgment until I can get my hands on one for some T&E.

Cheers,
TS

Wow, i couldn't have ****ed that one up any more, lol:p yeah, what he said. :D

[BWW]

I actually held LAV pistol for a brief period and did a couple of draws from holster. It does take a little learning curve to find the dot. Two Squeeze was right, it was a deltapoint with Bowie's custom job on the frame and rear sight in front of the RDS. I thought it was G17. Paul you missed out cause you were in the shitter! LOL
Brad W.

[bprice01]

Shooting TwoSqueeze's SBR with the BattleComp really cleared my sinuses. I don't know how he shot it all day for 2 days.

[bprice01]

http://flic.kr/p/9hV7Yq