View Full Version : Ford Sucks!
Late 2009 my brother got a letter on a free upgrade to his F350 for a vortex valve for the radiator to run more efficiently and not get over compressed. :confused:He took it in had it done. So, this week discover it had a pin hole leak in the radiator seam. I took her in to get repaired. Turns out this is a very common problem and design flaw. Guess what they are too complicated to repair a pin hole leak and you must replace entire radiator and the extended warranty does not cover it:mad:
How much you ask... $1906.00 :mad: WTF, Over?!
After 2 days of bitching and proving this is a design flaw and their upgrade does not work and threats of lawsuits, class action suits, blah, blah, blah I got it down to $1548.00 what a deal:rolleyes:
Hmmm. . .I'm still partial to Ford(s).
I have a 2003 F-150 that I wrecked badly this past December 30/31 2010. Thought it was totaled. But no! The $6k+ in repairs is a go ahead from the insurance. Sound Ford Collision Center is doing the repair work, hence an official Ford company is doing the repairs. Up till the accident, my truck ran fine all this time with some 150k miles on it. I know not much miles, but still not even a leak!
Now will see how it runs after the fix from Ford. . .
Army Chief
02-09-11, 06:11
Although I never was a Ford man in the past, they have earned my respect over the past few years, have fielded a very impressive product line, and recently won me over as a customer. I've been pleasantly surprised at every turn thus far, so I'm fairly confident that a single post on the Internet probably isn't going to win my consensus here.
Sorry, I don't believe that Ford sucks.
AC
What sucks are the complex designs that make repairs absolutely outrageously expensive. I saw a 1972 Chev 4x4 that I am considering because I can keep it running. Or maybe a surplus deuce.
When I was 16, some idiot in an F250 backed out into the highway in front of my S10 Blazer. My Blazer was totaled. The F250 drove away, despite being T-boned amidships by a light SUV going 30 mph.
I've been a Ford guy ever since.
When I was 16, some idiot in an F250 backed out into the highway in front of my S10 Blazer. My Blazer was totaled. The F250 drove away, despite being T-boned amidships by a light SUV going 30 mph.
I've been a Ford guy ever since.
I've seen an f350 with it's cab sheared off by a miata, and the driver of the miata walked away. Life can be strange. :D
Interesting fact: More millionaires drive Fords than any other car.
I've got a Taurus approaching 170,000 miles. Aside from a replacing the coolant tank, PCV, and rear wheel cylinders, it's been running like a champ.
We have used Ford F models for years on the family farm. Compared to neighbors with other brands, the Fords seem to hold up much better. This might be a fix that lasts until the truck hits 250K. We have found that the overall costs associated with owning F models is lower than other competitors. We arrived at this conclusion while having farming friends that ran other brands. We get to see the long term results.
Late 2009 my brother got a letter on a free upgrade to his F350 for a vortex valve for the radiator to run more efficiently and not get over compressed. :confused:He took it in had it done. So, this week discover it had a pin hole leak in the radiator seam. I took her in to get repaired. Turns out this is a very common problem and design flaw. Guess what they are too complicated to repair a pin hole leak and you must replace entire radiator and the extended warranty does not cover it:mad:
How much you ask... $1906.00 :mad: WTF, Over?!
After 2 days of bitching and proving this is a design flaw and their upgrade does not work and threats of lawsuits, class action suits, blah, blah, blah I got it down to $1548.00 what a deal:rolleyes:
Look at it this way. I had an 03 GMC 1500HD. At 84K the stupid thermostat failed and I had to get a new engine. Then @ 120K the new thermostat failed but this time the radiator was damaged. Each time the repairs ran into several thousands of dollars. So both have their problem. The solution?
Pray like hell that Toyota makes a 3/4 and 1 Ton P/U and a Suburban sized SUV. :laugh:
Look at it this way. I had an 03 GMC 1500HD. At 84K the stupid thermostat failed and I had to get a new engine. Then @ 120K the new thermostat failed but this time the radiator was damaged. Each time the repairs ran into several thousands of dollars. So both have their problem. The solution?
Pray like hell that Toyota makes a 3/4 and 1 Ton P/U and a Suburban sized SUV. :laugh:
They do they just don't sell them in US:mad:
And for everyone who thought this was a grab your torch and pitchfork we should all go kill Ford post it OBVIOUSLY is not. Its a rant over Ford building a defective (proven defective) radiator and not backing up their product until the numbers are high enough for a formal recall. Which is BULLSHIT! These are the words from the Ford Dealership about parent Ford and when the manager at the dealership is telling you how Ford is screwing you, but the dealer can't really do anything there is something wrong with that:mad:
My Fords have been good to me.
That said, I do agree that even simple systems have been made so overly complex that what used to be simple maintenence and repairs run big $$$ now. I remember taking my 1965 Mustang to the Ford Dealership in the mid 90's for repair and seeing their faces when they could plug it into a diagnostic machine to determine the problem with poor idle.
The battery in my Ford 500 sedan died in the fall, once replaced the Check Engine Light illuminated. Seems the computer looses idle settings or some such when the battery dies. Ingenious design....
I have recently been looking for a mid 70's Jeep CJ. I've about decided that if I can't repair minor issues on the side of the road with simple hand tools, I don't want that vehicle.
If you feel strongly about this, this is what Small Claims Court is for.
Suwannee Tim
02-09-11, 15:23
Interesting fact: More millionaires drive Fords than any other car.
I've got a Taurus approaching 170,000 miles. Aside from a replacing the coolant tank, PCV, and rear wheel cylinders, it's been running like a champ.
What year?
My mother had a 1990 Sable which is the Mercury version. That thing wore my ass out. Radiator, starter, alternator, hydraulic (yes hydraulic) motor mounts, head gasket, AC, rear engine oil seal, timing chain, all in less than 60K. She was a little old lady and didn't drive much and all these issues were out of warranty. One of the motor mounts particularly chapped my ass. It had a stud about 2-1/2 inches long into the engine and the nut was all but impossible to get to. After a week of puzzling over it I finally made a special offset socket extension in the machine shop and ground half a dozen sockets to length in 1/4 inch increments so I could move the nut 1/4 inch per socket, 1/12 of a turn at a time. What a nightmare! I cut 1-1/4 inch off the stud of the new mount which greatly simplified re-installation and any subsequent removal. I can figure this out but Ford can't? I asked a Ford mechanic how they did it. "Burn the damn things out with a cutting torch." "Do the cars ever catch fire?" "Sometimes. That's what the customers have insurance for." I had a 1988 and a 1990 Escort at the same time. They were not much better. Chronic clutch problem due to a design defect. 60K miles from a clutch. Putting a clutch in a FWD car under a shade tree is a tough job but I got pretty good at it. One of the happiest days of my life was the day I sent the last of these pieces of shit down the road on the back of the junk man's tow truck. No prettier sight in the world to me than a Ford on the back of the junk man's tow truck.
I have two Chevys now and a friend that is a former Goodwrench mechanic. I have gotten pretty good service out of the Chevys but he assures me there are plenty of nightmares similar to mine under Chevy's roof. He is a former mechanic now because GM has rigged the system so a mechanic can't earn a living without lying cheating and stealing from the customer. He says Ford is much the same. Chrysler too.
They do they just don't sell them in US:mad:
Who do we have to sacrifice to get them sold here?
And for everyone who thought this was a grab your torch and pitchfork we should all go kill Ford post it OBVIOUSLY is not. Its a rant over Ford building a defective (proven defective) radiator and not backing up their product until the numbers are high enough for a formal recall. Which is BULLSHIT! These are the words from the Ford Dealership about parent Ford and when the manager at the dealership is telling you how Ford is screwing you, but the dealer can't really do anything there is something wrong with that:mad:
I understand, but keep in mind its the same situation with nearly every auto manufacturer out there.
Temper tantrum over. Not the most mature thread Title on my part. Just get tired of bending over and being told you have to take it. I just don't believe I should have to accept this crap from Ford, Chevy, AT&T, whoever. I bought a truck once for less than $2000 and paying for an admittedly defect radiator for that just chaps my ass. The manager tried to give me this explanation.
" The reason Toyota has such a good reputation is that they used to make all their parts inhouse and so they were high quality to spec and the reason US auto makers have a bad rep is they get their parts made by the subcontractor who bids the lowest not who can make to the best specs. Then Toyota got so big here they started using the same subcontractors that we use and that is why now you see they are having all their recall problems. So, its not Ford's fault its the subcontractors"
I told him that when I'm the boss and one of my employees screws up and my client gets subpar work then its not my employees fault/responsibility the blame and responsibility is mine as the boss and telling me your trucks suck because of the subcontractors you choose is ridiculous. I don't know if anything he told me was true, but if it is... I'm at a loss.
Sorry to have vented here and upset the Ford lovers. Did not mean to malign all Fords just the current situation I find disheartening that we as Americans put up with this.
Moving on...
The_War_Wagon
02-10-11, 07:40
I wish I had my '79 Bronco back. Once you de-smogged the Milford engine, it ran rather well.
Ford - like most mfgs. these days - is trying to do too much, with too little. Too little an engine, that is. As we used to saying in racing, "There is NO SUBSTITUTE, for cubic inches."
ColdDeadHands
02-10-11, 07:59
After owning 2 crappy Ford and 1 Chevy trucks I own 2 Dodge's now. Lower operating costs and no warranty or other issues make ownership a lot nicer. The '07 Cummins Dually is awesome for towing and the '10 Hemi 1500 is a beast and very comfortable daily driver.
Although I never was a Ford man in the past, they have earned my respect over the past few years, have fielded a very impressive product line, and recently won me over as a customer. I've been pleasantly surprised at every turn thus far, so I'm fairly confident that a single post on the Internet probably isn't going to win my consensus here.
Sorry, I don't believe that Ford sucks.
AC
What did you recently get? I have been thinking of buying one of the new mustang GTs either the straight 5.0 or one of the BOSS remakes. Then I want to take some classes on how to drive the shit out of it.
Belmont31R
02-10-11, 18:59
I will never buy a big 3 car again. I have no need for a truck but if I did it wouldn't be a big 3 either.
Nissan, on the other hand, has been truly great throughout my purchase and after purchase support. The car I am 100% happy with, too, unlike every American car I have driven and owned. In fact I refused to drive my dad's (now gone) 99 Ranger because of the issues it had. I almost t-boned someone going 60MPH because the brakes would randomly not work. Instead of the truck slowing down all you would get is a rapid clicking sound with no braking at all. Not the ABS type of clicking, either. Of course Ford said it was fine. That truck was then dedicated to being a "farm truck" where it wouldn't kill any of us.
I could write a book about the issues my wife's Jeep has had, too. Nothing life threatening other than the computer going dead on the freeway and shutting the car off but tons of little issues that if we fixed end up being big bucks to fix. Window motors that have been used maybe 20X going out (both back windows- 1st was 500 to fix the 2nd we keep a set of needle nose pliers in the back to pull the window back up if it falls down inside the door), electrical problems we've spent over 1k on that still havent been resolved, drive train issues, ect.
Thomas M-4
02-10-11, 20:27
Did it have one of those composite radiators [plastic side tanks with aluminum core]??
Was the $1900 just for parts or was it for parts and labor?
For half that price you could probably have ordered custom made aluminum radiator by custom I mean cross flow radiator with aluminum side tanks all tig welded. BTW never have liked the composite radiators I have seen to many of them come apart. Its also not unheard of a a dealer screwing somebody over either by charging to much for parts and or labor.
if i had to buy an american car it would probably be a ford.
that said, i don't have to buy an american car.
Cagemonkey
02-11-11, 19:06
Fords aren't perfect, but they got my respect for not taking a Government bailout.
Littlelebowski
02-11-11, 19:30
I hate unionized anything but the EcoBoost has me very interested.
I hate unionized anything but the EcoBoost has me very interested.
The Eco-Boost is bad ass. I've driven one. It's crazy that a V6 can perform on par with a V8.
"To put it all into perspective, the 365-horsepower, 420-pound-foot EcoBoost-equipped F-150 offers 3,060 pounds of payload and 11,300 pounds worth of towing capability – both of which are best-in-class – and it gets better fuel mileage than any comparable engines offered by Ford's competitors (see the graph after the break)."
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/07/2011-ford-f-150-ecoboost-rated-at-16-city-22-highway/#continued
But just a word to the wise, any towing number from any mfg is BS.
And I'm a big fan of Ford after seeing the past 4-5 years of products. When I get a truck, it will be a F150.
Army Chief
02-11-11, 20:33
What did you recently get? I have been thinking of buying one of the new mustang GTs either the straight 5.0 or one of the BOSS remakes. Then I want to take some classes on how to drive the shit out of it.
My reply isn't going to impress you.
I traded in my 2004 BMW M3 so the wife could get a 2010 Flex Limited. I honestly couldn't stand to drive the M3 in the US after owning it for so many years in Germany, and the Flex is the perfect vehicle for my wife's real-estate needs, so it turned out to be the right move for us. The build quality and engineering of the Ford are not at all typical for what I remember of US-built cars.
Granted, it's no Audi, but the newer Ford does acquit itself extremely well at this particular price point, and I would buy another.
AC
The_War_Wagon
11-14-11, 06:42
I just got an '07 Jeep Commander with the 287 V-8 - my first Jeep, and first 4x4 in 20+ years.
When I thought "Jeep," I still had images of Patton in one, bouncing across North Africa & Europe 70 years ago in mind; they are MUCH better appointed today!
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/Scouting/JEEP1.jpg
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/Scouting/JEEP7.jpg
Doing the 60k mile maintenance right now, and it's still a blast to drive. A glorified station wagon with no storage room :rolleyes: , it'll be fun for schlepping the boys to Camp in, and maybe a little light wheeling in the Alleghenies. I've already got my eyes on a 2" lift, bigger meats, and custom bumpers. Can't wait to see if this hobby is more expensive than high-end AR's. :p
Every "American" car manufacturer sucks. I worked so many years part time in the car dealerships...
Got to drive everything other than Ferraris and the like. GM sucks, Dodge Sucks, and Ford Sucks.
You'll almost NEVER see a Honda or Toyota come in on trade. And if you do, the managers are fighting over them for their kids or wives.
I have a 04 GMC 2500HD diesel and absolutely love it. I have never had a problem with it and the 6.6L Duramax engine has a great reputation. Since it's inception the Duramax has only gone through emissions changes and a few power upgrades. The Ford diesel engines have had problems on one kind or another and have gone through many changes over the years. They have gone from a 7.3L to a 6.7L to a 6.4L to a 6.0L and are now making their own engine. So far the reports are pretty good on the Ford built diesel engine.
I love my Ford 2003 P71 Police interceptor it still has it problems due to the techs ripping wires out when it was retired But other than that it is running strong with over 120,000 on it :D
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h86/PFC-JB/002-11.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h86/PFC-JB/004-10.jpg
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h86/PFC-JB/001-14.jpg
Oh And No Not playing cop wanna be with it .I am GTG with the Sheriffs office on a corrections Officer Job I just applied for and I got a great deal on this at a auction LOL
ThirdWatcher
11-14-11, 15:58
Every "American" car manufacturer sucks. I worked so many years part time in the car dealerships...You'll almost NEVER see a Honda or Toyota come in on trade. And if you do, the managers are fighting over them for their kids or wives.
I've owned vehicles made by each of the Big 3 and I have come to see the wisdom of this statement over the past few years... I'm still waiting for the introduction of the Toyota Hilux diesel in this country.
PdxMotoxer
11-15-11, 01:09
I'm a fan of FORD because i guess i've gotten lucky.
In 2006 i custom ordered the truck of my dreams from Ford
(last of the 06's, push button 4x4, 351 winsor with auto OD tranny, even put a mustang V-chip in it)
It was perfect to load 2 dirtbikes in the shortbox then back up to a 23' travel trailer and head to the Oregon mtns for fun,play and relaxation pretty much EVERY weekend.
Or that same set up when racing motorcross and spending from sun up to sun down at the motocross track all day.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/PdxMotoXer/00-SandyMX-PracticeDayEDITED.jpg
Still have that Truck to this day with 90,000 miles and runs perfect!!!
Made the mistake of buying a new honda suv for the wife few years back and it was nothing but trouble
so we traded it on a new custom ordered Ford escape with "the works" even auto parking!!
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/PdxMotoXer/10-LsNEW2010escape.jpg
But i'm confused by the O.P.??
You said your BROTHER bought a new ford in 09 and he got the recall.... but YOU had to pay the bill and your tired of being screwed over.
Did you but it from him?
My now ex had "cooling issue" in her escape and they put in new radiator and Ford paid the bill also
replaced the seal on the back window as it would leak in car washes.... no charge.
FromMyColdDeadHand
11-15-11, 03:16
Hmmm. . .I'm still partial to Ford(s).
I have a 2003 F-150 that I wrecked badly this past December 30/31 2010. Thought it was totaled .
It took 2 days to crash???
M4Fundi- sorry to hear about that. My Grand Cherokee had the AC/heat flapper break deep in the dash. Sub-par plastic $1.50 part spec'd that breaks on all JGC eventually and it was like $1500 or something to fix it, it was a few years ago. They have to pull the whole dash out. PITA.
devildogljb
11-15-11, 09:32
ill stick with my dodge, ive never had good experiences with ford
I love dodge too I have had many work vans with the slant 6 and i have a 92 Dakota with a extended bed with the 318 that runs like a mule good vehicle
What year?
My mother had a 1990 Sable which is the Mercury version. That thing wore my ass out. Radiator, starter, alternator, hydraulic (yes hydraulic) motor mounts, head gasket, AC, rear engine oil seal, timing chain, all in less than 60K. She was a little old lady and didn't drive much and all these issues were out of warranty. One of the motor mounts particularly chapped my ass. It had a stud about 2-1/2 inches long into the engine and the nut was all but impossible to get to. After a week of puzzling over it I finally made a special offset socket extension in the machine shop and ground half a dozen sockets to length in 1/4 inch increments so I could move the nut 1/4 inch per socket, 1/12 of a turn at a time. What a nightmare! I cut 1-1/4 inch off the stud of the new mount which greatly simplified re-installation and any subsequent removal. I can figure this out but Ford can't? I asked a Ford mechanic how they did it. "Burn the damn things out with a cutting torch." "Do the cars ever catch fire?" "Sometimes. That's what the customers have insurance for." I had a 1988 and a 1990 Escort at the same time. They were not much better. Chronic clutch problem due to a design defect. 60K miles from a clutch. Putting a clutch in a FWD car under a shade tree is a tough job but I got pretty good at it. One of the happiest days of my life was the day I sent the last of these pieces of shit down the road on the back of the junk man's tow truck. No prettier sight in the world to me than a Ford on the back of the junk man's tow truck.
I have two Chevys now and a friend that is a former Goodwrench mechanic. I have gotten pretty good service out of the Chevys but he assures me there are plenty of nightmares similar to mine under Chevy's roof. He is a former mechanic now because GM has rigged the system so a mechanic can't earn a living without lying cheating and stealing from the customer. He says Ford is much the same. Chrysler too.
The 3.8 ltrs in those years had a lot of problems, for that motor mount the tool of choice is a 18mm semi deep 3/8 Snap On universal socket with a 36 " extension. I replaced a shit load of those under warranty back in the day, they only paid .8 hr flat rate time.
Suwannee Tim
11-15-11, 20:00
The 3.8 ltrs in those years had a lot of problems, for that motor mount the tool of choice is a 18mm semi deep 3/8 Snap On universal socket with a 36 " extension. I replaced a shit load of those under warranty back in the day, they only paid .8 hr flat rate time.
As I remember there was something in the way, AC compressor mount or some such and I couldn't figure out how to get it off.
I hate unionized anything but the EcoBoost has me very interested.
You realize it's just a turbocharger right?
It took 2 days to crash???
Guess one could say it crashed somewhere in-between said two days. :D
Guess one could say it crashed somewhere in-between said two days. :D
Or that he started the crash at 11:59:53 PM & finished at 12:00:12 AM.
I have had my 2001 F150 for 10 yrs now. Still running great. However, changing the spark plugs was an enjoyable experience that I hope that I never have to repeat.
brzusa.1911
11-16-11, 08:41
VW all the way for me :D
After the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, I won't buy anything made in Germany.
turdbocharged
11-16-11, 09:55
I'm really for any American car. I own both GM and Ford currently. In the past I have owned Chrysler and Dodge. They have all served me well. I am not to retarded or lazy to do maintenance on my own vehicles so everything has been pretty much standard. I don't subscribe to the fallacy that Honda and Toyota are the end all vehicles and that they never break. Also I've always been one to go against current trends so that's just a character flaw, and perhaps a major reason why I don't like Hondas and Toyotas( I also hate Iphones/Ipods/Ipads/anything apple, coffee shops, land rovers, yeungling, the list goes on.)
Belmont31R
11-16-11, 10:02
I'm really for any American car. I own both GM and Ford currently. In the past I have owned Chrysler and Dodge. They have all served me well. I am not to retarded or lazy to do maintenance on my own vehicles so everything has been pretty much standard. I don't subscribe to the fallacy that Honda and Toyota are the end all vehicles and that they never break. Also I've always been one to go against current trends so that's just a character flaw, and perhaps a major reason why I don't like Hondas and Toyotas( I also hate Iphones/Ipods/Ipads/anything apple, coffee shops, land rovers, yeungling, the list goes on.)
Many "American" cars are made in Mexico or made in the US with foreign parts.
Many "Foreign" cars are made in the US with mostly US parts. Even BMW has plants here where cars are made.
Its entirely possible to buy a car from a foreign brand be made here, and as an added bonus its not made by UAW scum. These days buying from the Big 3 is supporting the UAW which now owns a large percent of Chrysler and GM. Ford has managed a little better but not much.
Although I never was a Ford man in the past, they have earned my respect over the past few years, have fielded a very impressive product line, and recently won me over as a customer. I've been pleasantly surprised at every turn thus far, so I'm fairly confident that a single post on the Internet probably isn't going to win my consensus here.
Sorry, I don't believe that Ford sucks.
AC
Agreed...their offering has gone through quite a transition during the past decade. I'm very impressed.
Drove my first new Mustang few weeks back. The rental rep for National talked me into upgrading to a GT...tons of fun. Although I'd like a wider power band, it sounded pretty good and the automatic didn't seem to miss a beat. Made great time from Baltimore to Washington :)
Many "American" cars are made in Mexico or made in the US with foreign parts.
Many "Foreign" cars are made in the US with mostly US parts. Even BMW has plants here where cars are made.
Exactly. Check the sticker on the inside of your door for assembly location. My beloved Jeeps are assembled in Mexico and the new Cherokees are on Mercedes M-class frames, I believe. Meanwhile small towns in Ohio (Marion, Bucyrus) are kept alive supplying Honda's HUGE assembly plant north of Marysville, Ohio
I agree with buying American when it's actually produced, assembled, and sourced here but when I hear some bumpkin talking about AMURICAN cars....:rolleyes:
Many "American" cars are made in Mexico or made in the US with foreign parts.
Many "Foreign" cars are made in the US with mostly US parts. Even BMW has plants here where cars are made.
Amazing how that works, isn't it. VW just opened a new plant and make the new Passat at it, here in the US.
Its entirely possible to buy a car from a foreign brand be made here, and as an added bonus its not made by UAW scum. These days buying from the Big 3 is supporting the UAW which now owns a large percent of Chrysler and GM. Ford has managed a little better but not much.
I drive German cars because for me, they handle much better than any big 3 car I have ever driven. My first VW was a made in America car back when they had a plant in Pennsylvania. My second was used and I don't know where it was made, either USA or Germany (it was a one year earlier model year than my first but a different model). My third was made in Mexico, my fourth I think in Germany. My next will probably be made in the USA.
I do drive a Dodge RAM 2500 Megacab on the truck side. With the Cummins. No foreign company makes full size diesels. Mine is a 2006 and I will keep this one another 20 years. 2006 was the last of the 5.9l engines without all the Bluetech emissions crud added to it. I traded in a 2000 year RAM 2500 with the extended cab since they gave us cash on the trade in which basically allowed us to refinance some debt down to the truck level from high interest and we wanted the much bigger Megacab for my business and with 2 kids it is a lot roomier and works better.
The big 3 just don't make many interesting vehicles in my opinion, except the diesel full size pickups since you really have no other choice.
Although I never was a Ford man in the past, they have earned my respect over the past few years, have fielded a very impressive product line, and recently won me over as a customer. I've been pleasantly surprised at every turn thus far, so I'm fairly confident that a single post on the Internet probably isn't going to win my consensus here.
Sorry, I don't believe that Ford sucks.
AC
Agreed...their offering has gone through quite a transition during the past decade. I'm very impressed.
Drove my first new Mustang few weeks back. The rental rep for National talked me into upgrading to a GT...tons of fun. Although I'd like a wider power band, it sounded pretty good and the automatic didn't seem to miss a beat. Made great time from Baltimore to Washington :)
Many "American" cars are made in Mexico or made in the US with foreign parts.
Many "Foreign" cars are made in the US with mostly US parts. Even BMW has plants here where cars are made.
Exactly. Check the sticker on the inside of your door for assembly location. My beloved Jeeps are assembled in Mexico and the new Cherokees are on Mercedes M-class frames, I believe. Meanwhile small towns in Ohio (Marion, Bucyrus) are kept alive supplying Honda's HUGE assembly plant north of Marysville, Ohio
I agree with buying American when it's actually produced, assembled, and sourced here but when I hear some bumpkin talking about AMURICAN cars....:rolleyes:
turdbocharged
11-16-11, 11:24
I hear that argument a lot. Still won't change my preferences but I'm glad you have yours. Both of my American cars were at least assembled in Michigan ( I checked the stickers). I don't care how many us workers are employed at Honda I will never purchase that vehicle, and that's my choice. :)
I did check my dad's Ram however and indeed it says assembled in Mexico.
Littlelebowski
11-16-11, 11:25
And I'll never buy something made by the UAW. My choice.
turdbocharged
11-16-11, 11:27
Indeed
Belmont31R
11-16-11, 11:33
I hear that argument a lot. Still won't change my preferences but I'm glad you have yours. Both of my American cars were at least assembled in Michigan ( I checked the stickers). I don't care how many us workers are employed at Honda I will never purchase that vehicle, and that's my choice. :)
I did check my dad's Ram however and indeed it says assembled in Mexico.
Its not an argument its a fact. Since you said you "buy American" I was pointing out how many "American" cars are made in MX or assembled in the US with foreign parts.
Buying a Big 3 car is no more American, in many cases, than buying a Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, and a host of others. I'd even go so far as to say buying an American made foreign brand car is doing more to support America than buying a UAW owned GM where you're giving thousands of dollars to UAW scum who support socialist politicians and business models.
Sure its your choice....no one said any different..just the statement you made is not factually correct.
Littlelebowski
11-16-11, 11:43
After the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, I won't buy anything made in Germany.
Absolutely agreed.
http://www.englishbulldognames.com/blutarskybulldogname.jpg
And I'll never buy something made by the UAW. My choice.
Yet another reason to hate the junk that comes from the Big 3. I forgot about the scum sucking Union.
I know it's only fair to make $57 per hour torqing lug nuts. :rolleyes:
Littlelebowski
11-16-11, 11:53
Yet another reason to hate the junk that comes from the Big 3. I forgot about the scum sucking Union.
I know it's only fair to make $57 per hour torqing lug nuts. :rolleyes:
Who believes this tripe?
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/2008-10-14-aflcio.jpg
Eurodriver
11-16-11, 11:57
Very little talk about German cars in this thread.
Mercedes rocks.
(Hence the screen name ;))
BMWs seem to be having problems as of late, but the German engineers that work for Mercedes are on top of their game. Everything makes sense, is easy to work on, and simple.
Nathan_Bell
11-16-11, 12:19
Very little talk about German cars in this thread.
Mercedes rocks.
(Hence the screen name ;))
BMWs seem to be having problems as of late, but the German engineers that work for Mercedes are on top of their game. Everything makes sense, is easy to work on, and simple.
I love my Benzs' engineering. Despise their electronics.
I love my Benzs' engineering. Despise their electronics.
W123 or nothin here. Love my old 300dt, don't think i'd touch a new one...
Nathan_Bell
11-16-11, 15:53
W123 or nothin here. Love my old 300dt, don't think i'd touch a new one...
Don't think I will ever buy a newer car, all are electrical nightmares waiting to happen.
2000 G500 W140
1999 S500 W463
1985 U1250L
Are what I have left. They have their issues, but are old enough that there are no "WTF! How is it even doing that?" issues like my ML had.
Had a 2008 ML430CDI, what a CF! Was looking at a newer C, it had issues during the testdrive!
Very little talk about German cars in this thread.
Mercedes rocks.
(Hence the screen name ;))
BMWs seem to be having problems as of late, but the German engineers that work for Mercedes are on top of their game. Everything makes sense, is easy to work on, and simple.
Indeed. Old BMWs (e30s, e36s) were amazing cars...love those flat 6s. But the newer ones are far too complicated. The iDrive system is terrible. Mercedes does rock...as does Audi. I feel these two are strong buys, and as a general statement - the engineering/quality is readily apparent. Down to the thickness of the door hinges...they're solid. No doubt about that.
I'm biased towards VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) though :) my GTI and Audi TT were two of the best all around cars I've ever worked on. 24mpg and 400whp is a great combination and very easily done on those 1.8T and 2.0T motors. And their AWD system is unrivaled IMO, and readily controllable with Haldex modules. And besides some Subarus - what cars can you chip (aka return to Euro standards) and gain 50bhp on? Then there's the fact that Lamborghini, Bugatti, and Porsche are also part of VAG and a lot of their parts/technology that make their way down into VW/Audi cars.
You couldn't give me two new Benz for one new M powered BMW!!!
Only folks I know that drive Mercedes near me are old folks:)
NoveskeFan
11-16-11, 18:08
Fords are okay by me...I drive a Chevy Silverado
http://i523.photobucket.com/albums/w354/jamesbaezan/oops-1.jpg
Going code to a possible burglary, kid in a truck pulls out in front of me. It was T-bone him or try to avoid him...
You couldn't give me two new Benz for one new M powered BMW!!!
Only folks I know that drive Mercedes near me are old folks:)
Ms are a different class...just like AMGs and AMG Black Series
PdxMotoxer
11-16-11, 19:56
The thing about Mercedes and BMW is.....
It's just so tough to load 2 dirtbikes in the back AND pull a travel trailer
over the siskiyou mountains or pull your fishing sled out of the water on
some of those steep boat ramps.
My FORD truck gets used as a TRUCK.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/PdxMotoXer/04160019.jpg
The reason i choose it over a dodge was it didn't ride or handle like a truck. (well back in 1996) The Dodge 1/2 tons rode like the full tons
and yes a brick shyt house but rode like one and road noise to spare.
But now that GAS is STILL over $4 a gallon that 5.7L 351 winsor with 33' tires
makes me wish a BMW could haul a few bikes or tow what i need it to. :shout: :sarcastic:
Suwannee Tim
11-16-11, 20:26
Many "American" cars are made in Mexico or made in the US with foreign parts.
Many "Foreign" cars are made in the US with mostly US parts. Even BMW has plants here where cars are made.......
I had a '77 VW Rabbit which to my delight was made in Germany. A friend bought a '78 which was made in Mexico. I derided his car mercilessly for five years until my Rabbit started falling apart.
Don't think I will ever buy a newer car, all are electrical nightmares waiting to happen.
2000 G500 W140
1999 S500 W463
1985 U1250L
Are what I have left. They have their issues, but are old enough that there are no "WTF! How is it even doing that?" issues like my ML had.
Had a 2008 ML430CDI, what a CF! Was looking at a newer C, it had issues during the testdrive!
cool thing with the old 300d is the electrical system has very little to do with actually driving the car. You can actually remove the battery and alternator once the car is started... that said... my ignition switch failed the other day... teh car starts with the turn of a key (vacuum fuel shutoff is still on that) the flip of a toggle and the push of a button now. thanks radioshack :D
Ms are a different class...just like AMGs and AMG Black Series
I'm just busting Benz balls...being a bimmer guy and all:D
I think Mercedes Benz are exceptionally built autos...just not quite as exceptional as BMWs;)
One of my best pals owns a SL500 AMG...its fast as hell!
Nathan_Bell
11-17-11, 09:01
cool thing with the old 300d is the electrical system has very little to do with actually driving the car. You can actually remove the battery and alternator once the car is started... that said... my ignition switch failed the other day... teh car starts with the turn of a key (vacuum fuel shutoff is still on that) the flip of a toggle and the push of a button now. thanks radioshack :D
Yeah, those old diesels are great cars. Was looking at one a few months ago, but couldn't make myself bring a car that had lived for almost 20 years in TX to Ohio to die in less than 5yr thanks to the antimaterial chemical warfare that ODOT practices with their road treatments.
brzusa.1911
11-17-11, 10:13
Absolutely agreed.
http://www.englishbulldognames.com/blutarskybulldogname.jpg
:lol:
I was confused when I say the post about about the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor...Good one.
German cars for me all the way!!!
Note: Im not a truck guy. I like sport sedans.
I went and test drove a new F150 today and was very impressed. My wife has been looking at them lately and I decided to go look at them while my G37 was being serviced.
The interior was very nice and the four door model had an insane amount of room in the back seat. I test drove to 3.7 liter V6 model with 300 hp and 280 lbft of trq. For a truck that will see little hauling and no towing it is perfect. It was powerful enough to easily move the truck around and I was actually impressed with the acceleration. I reset the trip computer and averaged 24 mpg on our half city and half highway test drive. Cruising at 65 mph the truck was getting 30 mpg if the road was level. Drpped down to the low 20s when going uphill.
The truck was 35k but with the rebates and incentives it was around 28k.
Its not gonna persued me from my sport sedans but I really like that truck.
My 94 Ranger is still plodding along just fine, and has required very little cost to maintain despite being owned by a high school version of myself.
I like Ford as a company, but FFS if they're going to make amazing world cars (updated Ranger, AWD EcoBoost FOCUS, and Fiesta) and would explore more affordable niche markets, they'd push other competitors out.
Something like a Raptor-Lite (Ranger FX4 with an EcoBoost motor) would be a hit for fans of the F150 SVT Raptor who don't have 50k to spend on a vehicle.
Still, a lot of my future purchases are going to be "Buy American" instead of buying mostly Hecho en Mexico, so it's going to be a Subaru and Toyota, followed by a Hyundai... then I'll probably get a Ford.
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