View Full Version : More powerful buffer spring?
Fireman1291
02-09-11, 20:15
OK guys...
I shot my 10.5" Noveske the other day and it ran great until 200rds. Suppressed or unsuppressed the bolt was sluggish to return to battery and wouldnt fully seat a round. I had to use the foward assist many times. Im using a H buffer and the gun runs fine and is not over gassed. In fact, once I use the FA the round will seat and the gun will run through the entire mag.
Is there a recommended buffer spring out there thats a tad stronger than a carbine spring?
Fireman1291
02-09-11, 20:23
I just ordered a springco red spring. Hope that does it.
Boy you sure couldn't wait for a response :haha:
Who did you order it from?
.
Just wondering...how is everything lubed?
.
I'd look at cleaning and lubrication first, then parts fit & function. With that said, I run a red Springco spring & H buffer in my 6933 upper. It seems to give the best results for my setup.
Something seems odd. When running suppressed the pressure is increased and I would think that it should run.
What type of BCG do you have? What ammo were you using? Are you sure that there are no leaks anywhere?
A quick side question, IG what's your opinion on the "extra power" springs?
I have a bcm 16" carbine with an H3 buffer, bcm spring and it runs 100% (I've only been shooting PMC xtac 5.56 62 gr ammo) I'm just curious if I could do some tweaking by getting a stiffer spring and backing down to an H2 buffer.
I am using a Springco spring currently in my SBR. But, it also worked with a standard one as well.
A quick side question, IG what's your opinion on the "extra power" springs?
I have a bcm 16" carbine with an H3 buffer, bcm spring and it runs 100% (I've only been shooting PMC xtac 5.56 62 gr ammo) I'm just curious if I could do some tweaking by getting a stiffer spring and backing down to an H2 buffer.
Fireman1291
02-10-11, 08:25
No, the gun runs fine when its goin. Its when I 1st seat a fresh mag and hit the bolt release, the bolt doesnt have enough juice to fully chamber the round...after 200rds or so. Im guessing the carbon/crap after 200rds was just enough to slow the bolt down.
Its a Noveske 10.5" SBR with full auto bolt, H buffer, and standard carbine spring. Im guessing the sprinco red spring will do the trick. Ill just have to make sure it has enough gas unsuppressed to compress the spring.
*Ammo used was federal bulk pack at walmart
Grumpy MSG
02-10-11, 08:58
Something seems odd. When running suppressed the pressure is increased and I would think that it should run.
What type of BCG do you have? What ammo were you using? Are you sure that there are no leaks anywhere?
Educate me please on this one. Why would the supressor have an effect on the bolt carrier returning forward other than the increased pressure causing more carbon to end up in the bolt carrier and upper receiver? It seems to me (And this will be blasphemy to some on this site) the first step to sorting this out would be to clean the rifle and lubricate it properly.
The rifle is getting enough gas, it is cycling and grabbing the next round. Something is causing it not to chamber it completely. The question is: Is it tight tolerances, gunk (exacerbated by the supressor) or something misassembled( I have seen a Soldier assemble a rifle with the firing pin retaining pin backwards and smack the bolt carrier to bend it enough to get it together. It rubbed the upper receiver until it was corrected)?
Fireman1291
02-10-11, 09:11
lol, all good points grumpy.
The gun IS assembled correctly. I have a feeling it was a combination of sorts.
Noveske is known for a tight chamber, so add 200rds worth of gunk and a weak recoil spring and theres my problem. I bet the fact that it ran once I seated the round is because it was actually over gassed and the buffer was rebounding and slamming back onto the bolt which aided in stripping the next round off and chambering it fully.
I had a hunch what the problem was, I just wanted some ideas on a more powerful buffer spring that others had used. I posted this and 5min later did a google search and found springco...lol. :haha:
So hopefully that fixes it.
....
Noveske is known for a tight chamber, ....
=========================
I've never heard Noveske's had tight chambers before.
Has anyone else?
.
My 10.5" upper had some issues with the first round seating, but after 400 rounds down it now, no issues.
Ill know for sure here this month running 600 rounds in a one day carbine class.
Belmont31R
02-10-11, 14:28
What brand is the current spring and I would measure it.
What brand of mags and how many rounds are you loading? Have you tried starting out with say 2 less than full?
My only other guess is there is some point of friction when the BCG comes forward like on the top of the hammer.
Belmont31R
02-10-11, 14:59
I should also add in my experience the red spring increased recoil quite a bit. I tried it in a LaRue stealth 16" and I took it out after a couple mags is was so bad.
Ive also recently tried 2 of the blue springs, and had a much better experience although I noticed an slight increase in recoil from normal BCM/Colt springs.
Of course some people like them so Im not sure why I haven't had the best luck with them. I normally use H buffers so that may play into it somewhat, too. I never had an issue with cycling or loading a fresh round off a new mag with regular BCM/Colt springs and H buffers.
Noveske is known for a tight chamber
No they are not.
Someone else already mentioned clean and lube. Though why you would need to do so after 200 rounds is beyond me.
I was referring to the fact that when you add a suppressor you create excess back pressure (unless I am wrong) and that should speed up the BCG.
I have cleaned my SBR a grand total of maybe 2 times and everything else was nothing more than a wipe down. I also run mine wet which is also "blasphemy" to some military people who have been wrongly indoctrinated.
As I stated earlier. My SBR was 100% reliable with the standard M4 spring.
Educate me please on this one. Why would the supressor have an effect on the bolt carrier returning forward other than the increased pressure causing more carbon to end up in the bolt carrier and upper receiver? It seems to me (And this will be blasphemy to some on this site) the first step to sorting this out would be to clean the rifle and lubricate it properly.
The rifle is getting enough gas, it is cycling and grabbing the next round. Something is causing it not to chamber it completely. The question is: Is it tight tolerances, gunk (exacerbated by the supressor) or something misassembled( I have seen a Soldier assemble a rifle with the firing pin retaining pin backwards and smack the bolt carrier to bend it enough to get it together. It rubbed the upper receiver until it was corrected)?
MrLebowski
02-10-11, 15:59
Hey guys I've got a question relating to this for you. I had this same problem with some rounds that were poorly sized in my RRA. Since I switched to different ammo I've had no problems with feeding.
I plan on putting a Magpul UBR stock on it and it says in the manual to only use a carbine buffer & spring I believe, does anyone know why they say this? I was thinking about going to a heavier buffer to slow my bolt down a bit, should I not do this with the UBR stock?
Another problem I've been having is that my feed ramps gouge the crap out of my bullet jackets. If i chamber the same round twice I just throw it aside to be pulled because the jacket is so badly gouged. Has anyone heard of this before, is their an easy fix, like fileing an edge or do I need to buy & install a new feed ramp?
When they say "carbine" buffer they are referring to the size- in other words don't use a rifle length buffer.
Take a picture of the inside of the upper. I suspect that you have a mismatched barrel extension and upper.
Hey guys I've got a question relating to this for you. I had this same problem with some rounds that were poorly sized in my RRA. Since I switched to different ammo I've had no problems with feeding.
I plan on putting a Magpul UBR stock on it and it says in the manual to only use a carbine buffer & spring I believe, does anyone know why they say this? I was thinking about going to a heavier buffer to slow my bolt down a bit, should I not do this with the UBR stock?
Another problem I've been having is that my feed ramps gouge the crap out of my bullet jackets. If i chamber the same round twice I just throw it aside to be pulled because the jacket is so badly gouged. Has anyone heard of this before, is their an easy fix, like fileing an edge or do I need to buy & install a new feed ramp?
Belmont31R
02-10-11, 16:08
They most likely say that just to avoid any liability when their customers do dumb things.
The UBR uses standard carbine buffers and springs so it should be a direct swap. If you want to use an H buffer it should run fine and take a bit of the edge off the cycling.
Its common/normal with AR's to have some scrapes on rounds that have been chambered. All of mine do it but its more just light scratches. If the rounds are really being gouged with deep scratches Id take a look at the feed ramps as its a possibility you have a bad edge there. See if the marks look the same if you feed the round from either the left or right side. Usually with a full magazine it will feed from the right. The next round down should feed from the left.
I've experienced sluggish bolt carriers with a standard action spring myself.
At a Magpul carbine 2 last fall I ran with a standard action spring, and experienced 5 failures to fire on account of a BCG not being full seated. I was running a 14.5" LMT with a M4-2000.
I normally run a Sprinco extra power spring with a H2 buffer (like I did at Carbine 1 with zero issues) and after that I figured that suppressor use deposits enough carbon, and burns off enough lube that using an extra power action spring is a good idea
Fireman1291
02-10-11, 20:46
I've experienced sluggish bolt carriers with a standard action spring myself.
At a Magpul carbine 2 last fall I ran with a standard action spring, and experienced 5 failures to fire on account of a BCG not being full seated. I was running a 14.5" LMT with a M4-2000.
I normally run a Sprinco extra power spring with a H2 buffer (like I did at Carbine 1 with zero issues) and after that I figured that suppressor use deposits enough carbon, and burns off enough lube that using an extra power action spring is a good idea
Glad we are on the same page:cool:
MrLebowski
02-11-11, 10:36
Ya it gouges them weither their fed from the left or right side of the mag, I'm thinking it's the square cut outs in the feed ramps that let the bolt go through & lock that might be doing it. I'll try to get some pictures here but I've been swamped at work lately.
BufordTJustice
02-12-11, 04:45
I'm a big fan of the Springco Blue and Red Springs...but my favorite is the Tubbs Flatwire buffer spring. It is a quality spring that behaves more like a rifle spring (stiffer on pre-load than a normal carbine spring and slightly lighter toward the end of the recoil stroke).
OK guys...
I shot my 10.5" Noveske the other day and it ran great until 200rds. Suppressed or unsuppressed the bolt was sluggish to return to battery and wouldnt fully seat a round. I had to use the foward assist many times. Im using a H buffer and the gun runs fine and is not over gassed. In fact, once I use the FA the round will seat and the gun will run through the entire mag.
Is there a recommended buffer spring out there thats a tad stronger than a carbine spring?
I had the same problem with my Noveske 10.5" that you are having. I threw a Wolff Xpower spring in it and went to an H3 buffer and then it ran perfectly. I have had no more issues since this change and now have 2000K rds threw it.
I ended up measuring the carbine lenth spring and it was at minimum length from the factory. Stuff happens! Like I said, it runs EXCEPTIONALY WELL! with and without my HALO on it.
I would never say that a 10.5" gun was QUIET until I started running a Noveske 7.5" upper. Like they say at E.A.G. "Like an Evil Loud Violent Dream!!!" Alsi running an Xpower and H3 in this one. Runs Well.
Until that day,
Darkop
BufordTJustice
02-12-11, 16:45
I have no experience with Wolff springs in carbines (though all my pistols, except my service Glock 21, have been running Wolff springs for years). I know Wolff makes quality springs. :)
Darkop, I'm curious; how would you compare the Wolff XP spring to a Springco Blue or Red Spring?
I have no experience with Wolff springs in carbines (though all my pistols, except my service Glock 21, have been running Wolff springs for years). I know Wolff makes quality springs. :)
Darkop, I'm curious; how would you compare the Wolff XP spring to a Springco Blue or Red Spring?
I have never used the Spingco springs, so I can't comment on that.
Until that day,
Darkop
Until now, I thought all springs were created equal. What advantage do you gain from an after market spring? Are they made better than a mil spec buffer kit?
Another question, will a spring "shrink" after say 4k rounds? I purchased a new rifle. Switched out the springs to use the old (from a carbine) to put in the new (middy). The new was noticeably longer. What gives on the shrinkage?
texasmarine022003
04-21-13, 20:23
I too just had this problem at the range a couple of days ago. I run a 14.7" barrel not suppressed. I shot 60 rounds with three mag changes with no problems seating the first round (shooting pmc bronze .223). I switched over to some leftover Remington UMC .223 I had and on the first mag change it would not seat the first round. I did three more mag changes with the bolt locked to the rear and all three did not seat the first round. Got home and broke the rifle down and it looked like I shot 500 rounds rather than 120, due to a ton of carbon all over the bolt and bcg. After clean and lube and trying to replicate the problem loading and reloading again and again with same mags and ammo, I'm really starting to think it has something to do with the ammo itself.
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