View Full Version : Proposed Magazine Ban- Arizona
Representative Steve Farley (D) Tucson has introduced a bill (House Bill 2711) to ban magazines over 10 rounds. It's obvious that he introduced this in the hope of capitalizing on the tragedy that occured in Tucson.
I sent Mr. Farley an email voicing my problems with his proposed legislation. In addition I asked him some very pointed questions about his bill. These were some of my concerns (in addition to the fact that it will do nothing to stop crime).
1. Is there a "grandfather" clause for bill?
2. How will magazines be required to be marked in order to distinguish them from magazines made before the bill were to become law?
3. How will this law prevent criminals from going to other states and obtaining magazines there?
4. How will this law deter crime?
I made it a point to mention that it will be almost impossible to enforce unless there is an outright ban which makes any possession, transportation, manufacturing, etc... a crime.
He responded to my first two emails, but would not answer the specific questions I asked him.
I have contacted another member of the house who is pro-2nd Amendment and a retired Army SF veteran and expressed my concerns to him. I asked him what the chances are this could pass and any of his other thoughts. I am still waiting to hear from him.
If you are an Arizona resident I encourage you to contact your various reps, legislatures, governor, etc... and tell them this bill is BS.
I hope this is the equivalent of political suicide for him in Arizona. I'd be stunned if something like this passed. I have often thought about moving to Arizona because it seems like one of the few states that takes personal liberty seriously.
I agree. But when people are emotional they are dangerous. Hence this deal. Arizona is very free as far as I am concerned.
I hope this is the equivalent of political suicide for him in Arizona. I'd be stunned if something like this passed. I have often thought about moving to Arizona because it seems like one of the few states that takes personal liberty seriously.
Robb Jensen
02-10-11, 06:28
I'll bet the Glock 19 that Giffords owns has 15 round magazines, and I pray that she is against this stupid bill.
This has a zero chance of even getting out of committee. It's just political saber rattling. The typical kind of stuff that follows the Tucson incident.
I always point out that Cho, the VA Tech shooter, used 10 rd. mags in his Glock 19 to kill 32 people and wound a bunch more.
It would be interesting to see an estimate of how many tens of millions of over 10 rd mags are out there already. Including the ones the govt sold to us like 30 carbine mags, Thompson mags, grease gun mags, BAR mags, police trade in Glock mags, etc. I bet the number is in the hundreds of millions.
As an aside, we need a Const. amendment to say that the govt can't ban a product that it sells to the public. Like used Thompsons, high cap mags, surplus APCs, etc.
ChicagoTex
02-10-11, 08:37
I always point out that Cho, the VA Tech shooter, used 10 rd. mags in his Glock 19 to kill 32 people and wound a bunch more.
In situations where no one can (or will) fight back, how often a mass-murderer has to reload before continuing his slaughter is pretty trivial.
Campus Carry > 10 Round Mag Restriction
Besides, anybody who practices just a bit can reload most any modern firearm extremely quickly.
Maybe there should be a $100 tax on guns that hold fewer than 11 rounds.
I just finished reading an OP-ED in the Washington Post and decided to look up someone that was mentioned.
Howard Unruh. Alleged to be one of the first mass killers in the U.S. he killed 13 people with a World War I 9mm Luger pistol. So much for "hi capacity" magazines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh
The original "going postal" worker Patrick Sherrill did a pretty efficient job in Edmond, OK in 1986 with a 1911. Fourteen dead and six wounded before taking his own life. Who needs large, full capacity mags when you can just carry a New York Reload?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Sherrill
ares armor
02-10-11, 15:13
The introduced legislation in Arizona seems very polar right now. Check out SB1433 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7a3_1296787320&c=1) that will set up a committee to nullify Federal Ordinance and law.
The only thing them trying to ban hi-caps will do is make manufacturers and retailers of hi-cap mags sell out of their inventories very quickly
I always point out that Cho, the VA Tech shooter, used 10 rd. mags in his Glock 19 to kill 32 people and wound a bunch more.
I did not know that. Do you have a source?
I always point out that Cho, the VA Tech shooter, used 10 rd. mags in his Glock 19 to kill 32 people and wound a bunch more.
no kidding. that is an interesting piece of leverage.
RogerinTPA
02-11-11, 08:38
How bout enforcing current laws? How bout introducing laws that extremely effect criminals and not law biding citizens, like anyone with a criminal background, caught in possession of a firearm, gets life in prison? How bout we vote these dick heads out of office?
no kidding. that is an interesting piece of leverage.
I did not know that. Do you have a source?
It seems I might have spoken a bit too soon. In researching this further, via The Washington Post, he did buy 10 rd. Walther P-22 magazines via Ebay. The Glock 19 came with 15 rd. magazines.
I could have sworn that he also purchased 10 rd. Glock magazines for cheap online, but I can't find it right now, I'll keep digging. When that all went down, there was some discussion about it.
This is the response that I got from Mr. Farley. He uses the typical I support the 2nd Amendment bullshit, while calling for "common sense" restrictions.
Thank you for writing me regarding your concerns with House Bill 2711, my bill to ban large-capacity ammunition magazines like the kind used by the killer in Tucson on January 8.
I support Second Amendment rights for all law-abiding Americans to own guns. I also believe in common sense.
The killer in Tucson was subdued after stopping to reload. It stands to reason that if a future killer in a mass shooting is subdued when he stops to reload after shooting ten rounds instead of 33, fewer people will be injured or killed.
These magazines were banned in the United States from 1994-2004. Barry Goldwater supported their ban. Dick Cheney was quoted after the Tucson tragedy that it could be appropriate to reinstate that ban. Law enforcement supports this ban. Gun owners I have spoken with support this ban.
As much as we might wish otherwise, we cannot stop these incidents from happening again. I believe that we owe it to the memories of those who died and were injured on January 8 to do everything we can to limit the carnage next time.
HB2711 is a common-sense bill that protects lives while honoring the Second Amendment. I hope you can support it.
Thanks,
Steve
Representative Steve Farley
Arizona House of Representatives, District 28
Assistant Minority Leader
Ranking Member, Transportation Committee
Ways & Means Committee
Legislative Council
602-926-3022
sfarley@azleg.gov
1700 W. Washington St
Phoenix, AZ 85007
GermanSynergy
02-11-11, 16:45
That sucks man. We're dealing with the same horseshit in Maryland. I don't think the AZ bill will go anywhere, but there is a chance the proposed mag ban will pass in MD. :mad:
Cagemonkey
02-11-11, 18:46
This is the response that I got from Mr. Farley. He uses the typical I support the 2nd Amendment bullshit, while calling for "common sense" restrictions.
Thank you for writing me regarding your concerns with House Bill 2711, my bill to ban large-capacity ammunition magazines like the kind used by the killer in Tucson on January 8.
I support Second Amendment rights for all law-abiding Americans to own guns. I also believe in common sense.
The killer in Tucson was subdued after stopping to reload. It stands to reason that if a future killer in a mass shooting is subdued when he stops to reload after shooting ten rounds instead of 33, fewer people will be injured or killed.
These magazines were banned in the United States from 1994-2004. Barry Goldwater supported their ban. Dick Cheney was quoted after the Tucson tragedy that it could be appropriate to reinstate that ban. Law enforcement supports this ban. Gun owners I have spoken with support this ban.
As much as we might wish otherwise, we cannot stop these incidents from happening again. I believe that we owe it to the memories of those who died and were injured on January 8 to do everything we can to limit the carnage next time.
HB2711 is a common-sense bill that protects lives while honoring the Second Amendment. I hope you can support it.
Thanks,
Steve
Representative Steve Farley
Arizona House of Representatives, District 28
Assistant Minority Leader
Ranking Member, Transportation Committee
Ways & Means Committee
Legislative Council
602-926-3022
sfarley@azleg.gov
1700 W. Washington St
Phoenix, AZ 85007 Congrats on doing your patriotic duty and writing your Congressman. On the other hand, what did you expect? As far as most politicians are concerned, the second amendment is some Fudd trying to kill the wabbit.
It seems I might have spoken a bit too soon. In researching this further, via The Washington Post, he did buy 10 rd. Walther P-22 magazines via Ebay. The Glock 19 came with 15 rd. magazines.
I could have sworn that he also purchased 10 rd. Glock magazines for cheap online, but I can't find it right now, I'll keep digging. When that all went down, there was some discussion about it.
in my brief research it sounds like he used a mix of 10 and 15 round glock mags.
the bottom line at the VT massacre was that nobody was shooting back.
I expect him to listen to the voice of reason and the people who put him on office. Since a majority of Arizonans are pro-gun I think this may end up hurting him.
According to other sources they said this bill won't see the light of day. We'll see.
Congrats on doing your patriotic duty and writing your Congressman. On the other hand, what did you expect? As far as most politicians are concerned, the second amendment is some Fudd trying to kill the wabbit.
I expect him to listen to the voice of reason and the people who put him on office. Since a majority of Arizonans are pro-gun I think this may end up hurting him.
According to other sources they said this bill won't see the light of day. We'll see.
I hope it doesn't. My issues with these type of laws is that all it does is punish us law abiding folk.
Its crap like this that has got me a little worried and caused me to want to up my mag inventory.
This is the response that I got from Mr. Farley. He uses the typical I support the 2nd Amendment bullshit, while calling for "common sense" restrictions.
Thank you for writing me regarding your concerns with House Bill 2711, my bill to ban large-capacity ammunition magazines like the kind used by the killer in Tucson on January 8.
I support Second Amendment rights for all law-abiding Americans to own guns. I also believe in common sense.
The killer in Tucson was subdued after stopping to reload. It stands to reason that if a future killer in a mass shooting is subdued when he stops to reload after shooting ten rounds instead of 33, fewer people will be injured or killed.
These magazines were banned in the United States from 1994-2004. Barry Goldwater supported their ban. Dick Cheney was quoted after the Tucson tragedy that it could be appropriate to reinstate that ban. Law enforcement supports this ban. Gun owners I have spoken with support this ban.
As much as we might wish otherwise, we cannot stop these incidents from happening again. I believe that we owe it to the memories of those who died and were injured on January 8 to do everything we can to limit the carnage next time.
HB2711 is a common-sense bill that protects lives while honoring the Second Amendment. I hope you can support it.
Thanks,
Steve
Representative Steve Farley
Arizona House of Representatives, District 28
Assistant Minority Leader
Ranking Member, Transportation Committee
Ways & Means Committee
Legislative Council
602-926-3022
sfarley@azleg.gov
1700 W. Washington St
Phoenix, AZ 85007
I think you should respond to him that it is common sense that a criminal would ignore such ban or any prohibitive laws and that it is common sense that bans only prohibit/restrict law abiding citizens.
OK, so even using his Farley's flawed logic, what happens then, when the law abiding need to reload at 10, and the criminals, as criminals will do, since they won't follow the law, have the illegal higher cap mags?
This points to the centrally flawed thinking behind all of these bans, and that is, the "do gooder" "act now" politicians somehow always seem to think that these bans will affect the criminals from getting what they want, when they will not, and the only people affected are the law abiding that choose to follow these laws.
EDIT: sorry I didn't see Savior's post above, so my last bit ends up being really redundant!
I did. This was his follow up response.
But if we can keep these magazines off the shelves of big-box stores, then we will have accomplished something. The truly deranged like Mr Loughner could be discouraged if the item is not widely available.
I think you should respond to him that it is common sense that a criminal would ignore such ban or any prohibitive laws and that it is common sense that bans only prohibit/restrict law abiding citizens.
Cagemonkey
02-12-11, 15:46
I did. This was his follow up response.
But if we can keep these magazines off the shelves of big-box stores, then we will have accomplished something. The truly deranged like Mr Loughner could be discouraged if the item is not widely available.You can't fix stupid. Government bureaucrats are more interested in intimidating law abiding citizens than preventing criminals from ravaging society.
I just finished reading an OP-ED in the Washington Post and decided to look up someone that was mentioned.
Howard Unruh. Alleged to be one of the first mass killers in the U.S. he killed 13 people with a World War I 9mm Luger pistol. So much for "hi capacity" magazines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh
Well the luger holds more than 5 or 6.......
Ridge_Runner_5
02-13-11, 22:04
I did. This was his follow up response.
But if we can keep these magazines off the shelves of big-box stores, then we will have accomplished something. The truly deranged like Mr Loughner could be discouraged if the item is not widely available.
Oh God, he'd have to pay for shipping.....SHIPPING!!
Crisis averted. God bless you, senator...
The obvious answer to all this is to simply pass some laws saying that it's illegal to murder people. Then all this gun legislation would be unnecessary.
Wait. What?
EDIT: sorry I didn't see Savior's post above, so my last bit ends up being really redundant!
But much needed. I think this is the point we need to keep driving home.
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