View Full Version : Multiculturalism has failed, says French president
dookie1481
02-10-11, 22:18
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110210/wl_afp/francepoliticsimmigrationsociety
PARIS (AFP) – French President Nicolas Sarkozy declared Thursday that multiculturalism had failed, joining a growing number of world leaders or ex-leaders who have condemned it.
"My answer is clearly yes, it is a failure," he said in a television interview when asked about the policy which advocates that host societies welcome and foster distinct cultural and religious immigrant groups.
Yeah, Merkel said it a while ago too, back in October.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451
I think we will be the last group on the block to come to this realization. PC has too firm a grip here.
My questions are....
1. How many different cultures live in France/Germany?
2. Which cultures are responsible for not wanting to fit in?
Belmont31R
02-11-11, 00:49
My questions are....
1. How many different cultures live in France/Germany?
2. Which cultures are responsible for not wanting to fit in?
Having been stationed in Germany for several years the primary issue there is Turks. They build their own sub communities within the German towns/cities, and don't want to be 'German' in language or culture. They want their own little Turkey right in Germany.
It got so bad as a member of my BN got neck deep in a murder investigation when a Turk pulled a knife at a night club, our guys got the knife away, and one of them ended up dead. Germany doesn't have the same self defense laws we do here. Another guy in our BN ended up found dead floating down the Rhine after the Turks got riled up, and decided to cause problems. No one ever was charged with his death due to lack of evidence but they operate in gangs no different than those in LA. The German guys didn't like us because we dated their women but they they liked us enough since we both didn't like Turks thus we had mutual respect and rarely any issues.
I have traveled all over Western Europe even before I joined the mil, and its without a doubt the majority of the mainstream criminal issues arise from those who are not born Europeans. Drug dealers, burglars, organized crime, ect. They are scum who have infected Europe with crimes that rarely if ever were an issue before the great 3rd world country immigration influx.
variablebinary
02-11-11, 01:33
Is this news? We know this already
Army Chief
02-11-11, 05:27
Germany has a relatively new problem to go along with their Turkish "guest worker" concerns: the Russians. An influx from the East in recent years has brought with it a considerable (by German standards) amount of overt criminal involvement.
AC
This state (Minnesota) has the nation's largest population of both Somali's and Hmong. It has not had a beneficial effect on the crime rate of Minneapolis/St. Paul. Multiculturalism has failed in this state, IMHO.
Duh.
You can nave a multi racial culture, you can even have a multi national source of origin for them. But you can only have ONE CULTURE and for us that should be Western Democracy.
And I think it is pretty obvious who the problem is.
Duh.
You can nave a multi racial culture, you can even have a multi national source of origin for them. But you can only have ONE CULTURE and for us that should be Western Democracy.
And I think it is pretty obvious who the problem is.
Absolutely! Why is this so hard for most to understand?
RogerinTPA
02-11-11, 11:39
Not news at all.
Many who immigrate right here in the US set up there own communities and fail/refuse to assimilate, for what ever reason. Mex, Cubans, Filipinos, Chinese, etc... and have done so for decades. Go to China town in San Fran or NY, Little Havana in Miami, and so on. You will find entire communities that do not speak English, despite having been here for over 20 years. I met this one guy from Kali who was US born, grew up in an entirely Filipino community, did not have a good command of the English language despite going to US schools, served 8 years in the US Navy, and sounded like he just got off the boat. He was in his late 30's.
Absolutely! Why is this so hard for most to understand?
I dunno. Feelings of guilt? Maybe the guilt comes from the memory of past imperalism from a few hundred years ago? Maybe it comes from the knowledge that some societies are, relatively speaking, basically better off than others and they feel guilty over that?
Having been stationed in Germany for several years the primary issue there is Turks. They build their own sub communities within the German towns/cities, and don't want to be 'German' in language or culture. They want their own little Turkey right in Germany.
Yes, the Turks are probably #1 in Germany. To a lesser extent Balkan and Eastern European groups in some areas.
--
What people need to understand is that there is no problem keeping your "home country" culture in your family. My wife tries to speak Japanese to our kids, and we eat a lot of Japanese style foods and Japanese toys and stuff. But our kids have English as #1 (easier in our family since I don't speak Japanese :-) ) and are Americans by identity.
I grew up with Norwegian Christmas traditions (as modified over a few generations of our family). But my ancestors tried to assimilate into the culture and went as far as to forbid Norwegian speaking at home (for my grandparents and their siblings) so as to encourage the learning of English.
Lots of Chinese, Cubans, etc do assimilate and try hard to become American, while still holding dear their home country culture at home. But of course there are many that don't and retreat into their little-COUNTRY communities wherever they are, which is too bad.
But trying to force multi-culturalism through government decree and force will never work. If some people willingly do not assimilate, they will suffer the consequences. To encourage whole groups not to assimilate is failure.
And I think it is pretty obvious who the problem is.
I don't he's the problem...he's just the current, most prominent poster boy for the problem. He didn't make the problem, he just made the problem bigger.
I've been having to "press 1 for english" since long before Obama took office.
I don't he's the problem...he's just the current, most prominent poster boy for the problem. He didn't make the problem, he just made the problem bigger.
I've been having to "press 1 for english" since long before Obama took office.
I don't think SteyrAUG was talking about a specific person when he said "It is pretty obvious who the problem is" but I could be wrong. I took it differently.
I don't think SteyrAUG was talking about a specific person when he said "It is pretty obvious who the problem is" but I could be wrong. I took it differently.
You could be right. I just continue to have this image in my brain. Like a small, jagged rock in my boot.
http://mccollister.info/obamabow.jpg
GermanSynergy
02-11-11, 12:54
Ah yes. My aunt works in a hospital in Germany, and she's met many "Germans" who speak no German, want nothing to do with the culture, yet they demand gold plated medical care ASAP.
Many of them claim to be of German origin (my guess is they went East when Catherine the Great was still around, and recently "returned" to DE for the lavish entitlements)
:mad:
We refused to sell my grandfather's house to a Russian because he made it clear he wanted to turn it into a brothel. :mad:
Germany has a relatively new problem to go along with their Turkish "guest worker" concerns: the Russians. An influx from the East in recent years has brought with it a considerable (by German standards) amount of overt criminal involvement.
AC
Many who immigrate right here in the US set up there own communities and fail/refuse to assimilate, for what ever reason
Fear of rejection maybe?
All I know is that this multiculturalism shit is nothing but trouble.
All this "be proud of who you are" bullshit is the cause of bigotry and racism in this country.
How can you be proud of something you had no choice in......
Smuckatelli
02-11-11, 13:18
What people need to understand is that there is no problem keeping your "home country" culture in your family. My wife tries to speak Japanese to our kids, and we eat a lot of Japanese style foods and Japanese toys and stuff. But our kids have English as #1 (easier in our family since I don't speak Japanese :-) ) and are Americans by identity.
My wife became a US Citizen 11 months after we married, it was quicker in Southern California than getting a green card.
The thing that the swearing in official told all of them at that time was to bring your cultures into the US, don't limit it to only your immediate family but to always remember that they are Citizens of the United States.
Business_Casual
02-11-11, 13:57
I don't think some of you understand what multi-culti means in political terms. It isn't assimilation it is giving power to minority groups for fear of being called a racist. The groups then get special favors for their ethnicity that are not available to the majority race. For instance, set asides or admission quotas.
B_C
I don't think some of you understand what multi-culti means in political terms. It isn't assimilation it is giving power to minority groups for fear of being called a racist. The groups then get special favors for their ethnicity that are not available to the majority race. For instance, set asides or admission quotas.
B_C
That is just the political effect. It boils back to "keep your culture and be a separate group -- no need to assimilate". This idea is then enforced and promoted through what you describe.
Smuckatelli
02-11-11, 14:38
I don't think some of you understand what multi-culti means in political terms. It isn't assimilation it is giving power to minority groups for fear of being called a racist. The groups then get special favors for their ethnicity that are not available to the majority race. For instance, set asides or admission quotas.
B_C
That sounds like affirmative action, not multi-culti.
I dunno. Feelings of guilt? Maybe the guilt comes from the memory of past imperalism from a few hundred years ago? Maybe it comes from the knowledge that some societies are, relatively speaking, basically better off than others and they feel guilty over that?
Well American has never been "imperialist", I'm not aware of any American "colonies" in the last two centuries and we don't keep territory our military has liberated.
And I can't understand the logic of feeling guilty that our culture is a better one, especially to the extent of letting it be supplanted by an inferior one.
Of course the globalist "all the same" mentality never had much to do with logic in the first place.
I don't he's the problem...he's just the current, most prominent poster boy for the problem. He didn't make the problem, he just made the problem bigger.
I've been having to "press 1 for english" since long before Obama took office.
I actually didn't mean Obama.
I don't think SteyrAUG was talking about a specific person when he said "It is pretty obvious who the problem is" but I could be wrong. I took it differently.
Correct, I was speaking of the "immigrant" who leaves his country due to it's faults and failures and then seeks to live the exact same kind of existence in the place where he seeks a better life.
Fear of rejection maybe?
All I know is that this multiculturalism shit is nothing but trouble.
All this "be proud of who you are" bullshit is the cause of bigotry and racism in this country.
How can you be proud of something you had no choice in......
Actually it is nothing more than the same failed mentality that makes the country they left inferior.
If you leave the third world, it doesn't matter where you go if you continue to live as if you are still in the third world. All you do in that instance is export the misery of the third world and inflict it upon your new homeland.
And pride is not the cause of bigotry and racism. The actual causes are usually being fed up with dealing with the worst of a given culture.
It's rather simple really, if every black person you know is of the crip and blood mentality you are likely to form a very specific opinion of black people. If every black person you know is of the Neil Tyson and Morgan Freeman variety your opinion of black people will be very different.
And of course the above is true for all peoples of all cultures and races.
Now if you see all people of a given race in a negative view, then you might be inclined to take pride in your race or culture. As for myself, I don't think it means much to take pride in something you had little or no control over and didn't contribute anything to make it so. So in that respect, I agree with you.
I don't think some of you understand what multi-culti means in political terms. It isn't assimilation it is giving power to minority groups for fear of being called a racist. The groups then get special favors for their ethnicity that are not available to the majority race. For instance, set asides or admission quotas.
B_C
BINGO.
That sounds like affirmative action, not multi-culti.
Affirmative action and similar laws are the result of political multiculturalism.
Smuckatelli
02-11-11, 18:49
Affirmative action and similar laws are the result of political multiculturalism.
If politics only defined culture there wouldn't be issues with multiculturalism. To label culture as political completely misses what culture is and leads to legislation like affirmative action, similar laws and effectively puts blinders on the people and causes social unrest.
What do you feel effects culture?
We may be wrong but what we are pushing is:
Physical Environment
Economic Structure
Political Structure
Social Structure
Perspectives & Practices
Separate the five and attempt to look at only political, your assessment is going to be incomplete.
Well American has never been "imperialist", I'm not aware of any American "colonies" in the last two centuries and we don't keep territory our military has liberated.
And I can't understand the logic of feeling guilty that our culture is a better one, especially to the extent of letting it be supplanted by an inferior one.
Of course the globalist "all the same" mentality never had much to do with logic in the first place.
Yeah but there are those who still see us as having been imperialistic in the past and up to today. For a past example they will look at our involvement in the Philippines and say that was imperialistic. Hell they will cite the proliferation of McDonald's and American - English words that have crept into other languages (e-mail, internet, etc..)
Mind you I do not agree with these numb nuts. Some folks are just plain into the whole self loathing game. It bewilders me just as much as it does you. But it's out there.
Yeah but there are those who still see us as having been imperialistic in the past and up to today. For a past example they will look at our involvement in the Philippines and say that was imperialistic. Hell they will cite the proliferation of McDonald's and American - English words that have crept into other languages (e-mail, internet, etc..)
Mind you I do not agree with these numb nuts. Some folks are just plain into the whole self loathing game. It bewilders me just as much as it does you. But it's out there.
And there are people who honestly believe the moon landings were a hoax. I wish we lived in a time and place where such people were safely ignored and shunned by all.
And of those who aren't simply truly ignorant, I think you will always find an anti US agenda at work. They will decry US imperialism with the examples you offered and at the same time think Russia was trying to rescue Afghanistan in 1979 and that the Hungarian revolt of the 1950s was justifiably put down.
I dunno. Feelings of guilt? Maybe the guilt comes from the memory of past imperialism from a few hundred years ago? Maybe it comes from the knowledge that some societies are, relatively speaking, basically better off than others and they feel guilty over that?
Styer did a better job responding to this but..... Just because there are feelings of guilt does not mean that they are not misplaced or just wrong all together. Some societies have never progressed and very likely wont because of their culture. This is not to say that they cant, just likely wont. This does not mean that we should flush ours down because they are not close to our level.
Styer did a better job responding to this but..... Just because there are feelings of guilt does not mean that they are not misplaced or just wrong all together. Some societies have never progressed and very likely wont because of their culture. This is not to say that they cant, just likely wont. This does not mean that we should flush ours down because they are not close to our level.
Never said that we should. Someone asked as to what could be driving this. I hypothesized reasons why.
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