View Full Version : Left vs. Right Authorianianism....
Belmont31R
02-11-11, 00:18
I'm having a hard time believing there is a difference at all between the two aside from what exactly each side wants to impose.
Just in the last week I got a letter from my boy's school accusing us of being in violation of state law since they have have missed 14 days the entire school year. Ok I understand kids need to be in school but the reason they have missed that many days is because they get sick at 'that' school, and we aren't going to send them if they are running fevers and/or spewing green sauce out their noses. In the last 30 days they missed an entire week due to fever/sauce out the nose. The 2nd week they didn't miss any but we got 3 calls from the nurse about head lice that was going around the class, and we 'had' to spend $15 a treatment with two treatment each (4 total) otherwise they could not come back, and this week we have been dealing with Strep throat, bronchitis, and an ear drum that was so infected the doctor said it was about to burst. We have spent several hundred dollars this week between doctors visits, X-Rays, and prescription medications. According to the letter we received accusing us of being in violation of state law a doctors note is required if a child misses more than a couple consecutive days of school.
So the liberals want to force me to buy insurance but the supposed conservatives want to send me a letter saying Im a criminal because I dont spend hundreds of dollars every other week sending my kids to the doctors because got a cold?
Then last Sunday, Super Bowl Sunday, I wake up bright and shiny to go beat all the other people to grab beer and food for the day. But stupid me forgot the Bible Belt conservatives got the Blue Laws passed, and the HEB grocery store had big covers over all the alcohol because I had the audacity to get there before noon. I guess Im supposed to be a good Texan and go to church where I won't have the opportunity to buy beer before noon since its church time right? And if I wanted to buy a bottle of scotch or whiskey I couldnt do that all day since its Sunday.
So tell me whats the difference besides technicalities? One side wants to be the moral police, say I cant buy beer since its Jesus day, and also accuses me of being a criminal since my kids get sick in their school while not spending hundreds at the doctors, and the other sides wants me to fork over money for their social justice crusade saying I have to spend hundreds in medical costs or be a criminal.
What ever happened to leave me alone and Ill leave you alone? As far as Im concerned both sides want to get in your business and tell you how to raise your kids, you have spend money on medical expenses no matter if you need it or want it or not, and tell you how to live you life.
Home schooling is looking better and better every day even though I live in a "free state". Also don't forget the overwhelming GOP support including Tea Party members in Congress who voted for the Patriot Act extension. Glad I supported them for a few months so they could vote for the gov to listen in on calls between my dad and I since he works in the ME and I live here. Rights and the Constitution stop short of the border right?
damned if ya do damned if ya don't comes to mind.
This is the best thing I have read yet on this forum in regards to U.S. politics. And to answer your question there is no difference. Both sides have the same goals, and both sides are united in obtaining them.
Both are also equally efficient at using propaganda, and convincing their "side" that they are the only truth.
The only people to blame though are those of us that have picked a side and turned a blind eye to reality. (unfortunately that is a lot of us).
Business_Casual
02-11-11, 06:48
I agree - government has become a cancer. Who goes into government or politics anyway? I never had the urge to go "regulate" something or someone.
B_C
Magic_Salad0892
02-11-11, 07:29
Find a way to get your kid into independent study.
Much like a charter school, meet your teacher once a week, do work, turn it in. Boom.
I finished school with that program after my parents got sick of me having to go to the hospital for severe cases of the flu, food poisoning (school food), a few death threats, school lockdowns because somebody found bullets in a kid's backpack and other stuff (he went hunting with his Dad that weekend... he got expelled. :(), and other really stupid things I had to deal with in public school.
This was in California, by the way.
Independent studies made me a straight A/B+ student.
Also had enough free time to get things ready for college. (Which I will get to finishing eventually.)
+1 Belmont. Both sides are more than willing to use government to foist their ideals and morals on everyone else. I wish that "social issues" weren't on the menu when it came to government, but it is and people get elected to push them.
This is why I always tell people that I am personally conservative and politically libertarian. While I hold conservative views, I do not wish to force others to live by them since I don't want others to force me to live their way.
montanadave
02-11-11, 08:07
I agree - government has become a cancer. Who goes into government or politics anyway? I never had the urge to go "regulate" something or someone.
B_C
I share many of the same frustrations voiced by others in this thread. Here in Montana, our current legislature, wherein the majority party campaigned on getting the "government" off our backs, are busy as beavers introducing legislation to insinuate themselves into our bedrooms, doctor's office and medical records, and beyond, all in the name of their version of "family values." :rolleyes:
However, I will stop short of calling government a "cancer." A functioning system of governance is integral to our society; indeed, it is the foundation on which our society is built. Government overreach and intrusion into both the private and public sectors is the metastasizing malignancy. And the demarcation between government's vital and necessary role and that intrusive overreach is, and always has been, the focus of contentious debate.
As for the paucity of "statesmen" amidst the plethora of skivey politicians, I think it's a function of the harshly polarized political environment and the corrupting influence of the money involved (both the money required to get elected and the ability to regulate the government's revenue and the distribution of same). The process has become so ugly that only the greediest megalomaniacal narcissists need apply; those willing to surrender their privacy, to subject themselves and their families to every possible accusation and libel, and prostitute themselves to those willing to finance their political aspirations.
And regulating others? When I was living next door to a guy who felt obligated to blast his stereo every night when he rolled in from the bars, I was all about "regulating" someone else's behavior. :haha:
Business_Casual
02-11-11, 10:17
Money in politics is as surprising as beef in cattle. As for civility in discourse, our vice presidents used to fight duels with political rivals. Take the DNC talking points memo with you.
B_C
Belmont31R
02-11-11, 10:24
Find a way to get your kid into independent study.
Much like a charter school, meet your teacher once a week, do work, turn it in. Boom.
I finished school with that program after my parents got sick of me having to go to the hospital for severe cases of the flu, food poisoning (school food), a few death threats, school lockdowns because somebody found bullets in a kid's backpack and other stuff (he went hunting with his Dad that weekend... he got expelled. :(), and other really stupid things I had to deal with in public school.
This was in California, by the way.
Independent studies made me a straight A/B+ student.
Also had enough free time to get things ready for college. (Which I will get to finishing eventually.)
Funny you should mention that. I got put up for expulsion in HS due to the same thing. I used to shoot ATA trap (national competition) every weekend. Used to drive out of state to big matches and such. One weekend I forgot to take my left over shells and belt/pouch out of my truck, got caught with it at school, and they freaked out thinking I was going to shoot the school up. They didn't lock the school down or anything but Im surprised they didn't. My mom yanked me out of there the next day, and I went on independent study. It worked well for me since Im a self learner, and I buzzed through classes like crazy. I also took a couple college classes at the same time. I ended up going back to the regular school the next year, and I barely I had to take any classes besides electives because I was so far ahead and got early release all 3 trimesters. It was funny when the vice principal was on the phone with my mom when I was sitting in the office that day and he was trying to tell her how dangerous it was to have ammo at school. My mom lit him up asking him what I was going to be able to do with shells (I took my shotgun out thankfully- just left my bag and ammo) and a leather pouch....that my pens in my bag could do more damage.
I don't disagree with the original .0 thread in many regards, but I think the letter about violating state law because of missed days is not coming from the conservatives. Schools tend to be pretty infiltrated by liberalism no matter where you are (here in the most conservative state in the union, Utah, the schools are pretty left wing). And it is the school types who get these laws passed. (I am personally for abolition of public schools as they are a cancer on society and make us dumber)
I think there are pretty big differences between so-called left authoritarianism and so-called right authoritarianism in the details, and no, their goals are not the same, but both sorts unfortunately exist and I would rather be left alone too.
montanadave
02-11-11, 15:11
Money in politics is as surprising as beef in cattle. As for civility in discourse, our vice presidents used to fight duels with political rivals. Take the DNC talking points memo with you.
B_C
A desire for civility in a well-intentioned, rational dialogue between individuals and parties which hold differing points of view in the interest of finding solutions to the vexing issues which confront this nation has now become "a DNC talking point"?
:rolleyes:
Belmont31R
02-11-11, 15:27
A desire for civility in a well-intentioned, rational dialogue between individuals and parties which hold differing points of view in the interest of finding solutions to the vexing issues which confront this nation has now become "a DNC talking point"?
:rolleyes:
Sure has. The entire time Bush was in office he had elements of the media calling for his death, calling him all kinds of nasty names, jokes about the shoe throwing incident, ect. Even elected leaders saw fit to call him names in front of the camera.
But now you're a racist if you don't like Obama and we have to sit down like children least anyones feelings get hurt.
Funny you should mention that. I got put up for expulsion in HS due to the same thing. I used to shoot ATA trap (national competition) every weekend. Used to drive out of state to big matches and such. One weekend I forgot to take my left over shells and belt/pouch out of my truck, got caught with it at school, and they freaked out thinking I was going to shoot the school up. They didn't lock the school down or anything but Im surprised they didn't. My mom yanked me out of there the next day, and I went on independent study. It worked well for me since Im a self learner, and I buzzed through classes like crazy. I also took a couple college classes at the same time. I ended up going back to the regular school the next year, and I barely I had to take any classes besides electives because I was so far ahead and got early release all 3 trimesters. It was funny when the vice principal was on the phone with my mom when I was sitting in the office that day and he was trying to tell her how dangerous it was to have ammo at school. My mom lit him up asking him what I was going to be able to do with shells (I took my shotgun out thankfully- just left my bag and ammo) and a leather pouch....that my pens in my bag could do more damage.
What year was this?
Belmont31R
02-13-11, 01:09
What year was this?
I think 2000....
Business_Casual
02-13-11, 08:32
In 1911, the combined take by Federal, State and local government was 5%. There was no HUD, EPA, DOE and no Federal education spending.
Are we better off today, to the tune of 45%?
B_C
In 1911, the combined take by Federal, State and local government was 5%. There was no HUD, EPA, DOE and no Federal education spending.
Are we better off today, to the tune of 45%?
B_C
No, but since we are accustom to our current situation and things are not horrible(yet) it is hard to get the average person to care enough to do anything about it. Besides like my sig line says, when you are talking to the average person you are talking to a television set. So until T.V. tells society to care or things get really bad we will not have significant change.
GermanSynergy
02-13-11, 11:05
Your average Joe Schlub and Susie Schmendrick lives only to watch ball games, shovelling hot dogs/pizza down their gullets & tuning in to American Idol and the like. Most don't gave a care about the issues going on in this country and around the world.
I was in a barber shop the other day, and people were talking about the Super Bowl like we had just defeated Nazi Germany. I asked them their take on Egypt, and I got a blank state back.
No, but since we are accustom to our current situation and things are not horrible(yet) it is hard to get the average person to care enough to do anything about it. Besides like my sig line says, when you are talking to the average person you are talking to a television set. So until T.V. tells society to care or things get really bad we will not have significant change.
I can highly recommend home schooling. Join the Home School Legal Defense Association, though, just in case there is any trouble. Many states also have a state home school organization.
Many people ask why? First I wanted the children to learn "values." And I wanted them to be able to read and think wisely. Some folks think the kids get shorted on social exposure, but that is not the case. Both of mine are teenagers in jazz band and my son plays football at the local community school. My wife teaches the balance of the lessons, along with video for Algebra etc. You get to tailor the lessons to fit the learning style.
Magic_Salad0892
02-14-11, 03:12
Funny you should mention that. I got put up for expulsion in HS due to the same thing. I used to shoot ATA trap (national competition) every weekend. Used to drive out of state to big matches and such. One weekend I forgot to take my left over shells and belt/pouch out of my truck, got caught with it at school, and they freaked out thinking I was going to shoot the school up. They didn't lock the school down or anything but Im surprised they didn't. My mom yanked me out of there the next day, and I went on independent study. It worked well for me since Im a self learner, and I buzzed through classes like crazy. I also took a couple college classes at the same time. I ended up going back to the regular school the next year, and I barely I had to take any classes besides electives because I was so far ahead and got early release all 3 trimesters. It was funny when the vice principal was on the phone with my mom when I was sitting in the office that day and he was trying to tell her how dangerous it was to have ammo at school. My mom lit him up asking him what I was going to be able to do with shells (I took my shotgun out thankfully- just left my bag and ammo) and a leather pouch....that my pens in my bag could do more damage.
Lol. That's weird. I was taking college classes too. A minor psych class, English literature, and pre calculus.
I almost got expelled in HS for having a gun magazine (I believe it was American Rifleman or something.) in my backback one day. Damn man purse backpacks always having shit fall out of them. Me wearing a Marilyn Manson shirt didn't help me. The words ''Columbine Killer'' was thrown around a bit, but nothing substantial. Eventually it cooled down.
That was California though, I'm not surprised they flipped their shit. I didn't get expelled though, and I didn't leave until the year after.
Littlelebowski
02-14-11, 06:17
Welcome to the world of not being blue or red but libertarian.
Strongly recommend http://cato.org and http://reason.com
Welcome to the world of not being blue or red but libertarian.
Strongly recommend http://cato.org and http://reason.com
+1 I used to subscribe to Reason, let it lapse because I had too many other subscriptions. I should pick it back up again.
variablebinary
02-14-11, 07:43
Welcome to the world of not being blue or red but libertarian.
Strongly recommend http://cato.org and http://reason.com
I find myself moving closer and closer to the libertarian movement.
Last election, I called Ron Paul a kook. Now I find myself agreeing with him more and more often.
I don't see this nation surviving the Federal Reserve, globalists and bankers under GOP or Dem rule.
Littlelebowski
02-14-11, 07:43
Reason's printed magazine is excellent and less than $50 for 3 years. I give out subscriptions as a gift to friends and family.
I have always said that choosing a side in politics is like being asked if you would like to get hit in the right side of the face or the left side of the face !
either choice sucks
Belmont31R
02-14-11, 10:18
I think we will see more and more people moving towards being libertarians as both big parties are not doing what needs to be done, spending too much, and trampling on our rights.
Business_Casual
02-14-11, 11:32
I think we will see more and more people moving towards being libertarians as both big parties are not doing what needs to be done, spending too much, and trampling on our rights.
How long were the Repubs in power before they tried to sell us out? A whole week?
B_C
RancidSumo
02-14-11, 12:42
Welcome to the world of not being blue or red but libertarian.
Strongly recommend http://cato.org and http://reason.com
And http://www.mises.org
And http://www.mises.org
www.lewrockwell.com has some interesting articles from time to time as well.
I was in a barber shop the other day, and people were talking about the Super Bowl like we had just defeated Nazi Germany. I asked them their take on Egypt, and I got a blank state back.
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7216/egyptx.jpg
karmapolice
02-14-11, 13:44
I find any extreme to be just that an extreme and often look in the middle for the balance that is needed in most things in life. i.e. Eat too much become a glutton, don't eat enough you become anorexic, or you can eat what you need and you will be healthy.
I thought Eugene Volokh said it pretty well. I didn't look for his article but something like:
"Democrats say A to get elected and do B when they are elected. Republicans say C to get elected and do B when they are elected."
And while I am a conservative, I have a hard time arguing with this logic.
I think 2000....
Interesting. Before Columbine kids would get a little wrist slap for bringing actual guns to school, most of the time the police weren't even called. A kid I went to Junior High with in the early 90s got diversion for bringing a pipe bomb to school, pretty sure that would involve the Feds these days and would have ruined his life.
Your average Joe Schlub and Susie Schmendrick lives only to watch ball games, shovelling hot dogs/pizza down their gullets & tuning in to American Idol and the like. Most don't gave a care about the issues going on in this country and around the world.
I was in a barber shop the other day, and people were talking about the Super Bowl like we had just defeated Nazi Germany. I asked them their take on Egypt, and I got a blank state back.
Agreed, I am reading Gibbon right now (Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire) and couldn't help but think that we are a modern Rome and about bread and circuses during the half time show.
Are we better off today, to the tune of 45%?
Lazy deadbeats who used to be allowed to lay in a ditch and die if they wanted to back then certainly are. Intelligent hard working people who aren't looking for a handout not so much.
About the only thing I think needs to be maintained at NEAR current levels is defense spending. IF we reduced foreign entangements we could probably reduce the size of the Army and retain a strong Air Force/Navy/Marine Corps to protect N America and defend our legitimate interests overseas.
I don't see this nation surviving the Federal Reserve, globalists and bankers under GOP or Dem rule.
We need somebody in power willing to get rid of entire Departments with half the resulting savings being returned to the taxpayer and half going to paying down the debt. I don't really see it happening either. But then I don't see a libertarian winning national office either.
I'm having a hard time believing there is a difference at all between the two aside from what exactly each side wants to impose.
Just in the last week I got a letter from my boy's school accusing us of being in violation of state law since they have have missed 14 days the entire school year. Ok I understand kids need to be in school but the reason they have missed that many days is because they get sick at 'that' school, and we aren't going to send them if they are running fevers and/or spewing green sauce out their noses. In the last 30 days they missed an entire week due to fever/sauce out the nose. The 2nd week they didn't miss any but we got 3 calls from the nurse about head lice that was going around the class, and we 'had' to spend $15 a treatment with two treatment each (4 total) otherwise they could not come back, and this week we have been dealing with Strep throat, bronchitis, and an ear drum that was so infected the doctor said it was about to burst. We have spent several hundred dollars this week between doctors visits, X-Rays, and prescription medications. According to the letter we received accusing us of being in violation of state law a doctors note is required if a child misses more than a couple consecutive days of school.
So the liberals want to force me to buy insurance but the supposed conservatives want to send me a letter saying Im a criminal because I dont spend hundreds of dollars every other week sending my kids to the doctors because got a cold?
Then last Sunday, Super Bowl Sunday, I wake up bright and shiny to go beat all the other people to grab beer and food for the day. But stupid me forgot the Bible Belt conservatives got the Blue Laws passed, and the HEB grocery store had big covers over all the alcohol because I had the audacity to get there before noon. I guess Im supposed to be a good Texan and go to church where I won't have the opportunity to buy beer before noon since its church time right? And if I wanted to buy a bottle of scotch or whiskey I couldnt do that all day since its Sunday.
So tell me whats the difference besides technicalities? One side wants to be the moral police, say I cant buy beer since its Jesus day, and also accuses me of being a criminal since my kids get sick in their school while not spending hundreds at the doctors, and the other sides wants me to fork over money for their social justice crusade saying I have to spend hundreds in medical costs or be a criminal.
What ever happened to leave me alone and Ill leave you alone? As far as Im concerned both sides want to get in your business and tell you how to raise your kids, you have spend money on medical expenses no matter if you need it or want it or not, and tell you how to live you life.
Home schooling is looking better and better every day even though I live in a "free state". Also don't forget the overwhelming GOP support including Tea Party members in Congress who voted for the Patriot Act extension. Glad I supported them for a few months so they could vote for the gov to listen in on calls between my dad and I since he works in the ME and I live here. Rights and the Constitution stop short of the border right?
Right there with you, see sig.
Cagemonkey
02-16-11, 19:01
This link has been posted before on this forum. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODJfwa9XKZQ I feel it pretty much some up how things really are.
I think we will see more and more people moving towards being libertarians as both big parties are not doing what needs to be done, spending too much, and trampling on our rights.
I'm seeing more and more people identify themselves as libertarian. Although, some just seem to be trying to distance themselves from the republican/conservative establishment more than anything.
I am hopefull (for the first time) that it may be becoming something more than a "fringe movement". Ten or fifteen years ago if if I told someone I was a libertarian there was a good chance they'd think I was talking about my diet or that I was into bird watching.
I'm glad we have both Democratic & Republican parties as I'd hate think if only one side was running things, but this seesaw we are on where everyone is sliding further apart and trying to knock each other off is kind of scary. Wish they were sliding more to the middle and leaving each other alone.
I probably have half Dems as friends & half Republicans as friends pretty equal and sadly I see more extreme hate and vitriolic crap from the Dems than I do the Republicans. Kind of scary sometimes:confused:
Where's the love:p
variablebinary
02-17-11, 05:36
The problem with Democrats/Left and Republicans/Right is both sides are backed by the same bankers, corporate interest and globalists.
They might shout at each other, but both groups have the same goal at their core due to the same handlers behind the scenes. Goldman Sachs funded both McCain and Obama. Every Presidential cabinet we have had in the last 40 years has been stacked with member of the Skulls, federal reserve, Council on foreign relations, The Trilateral Commission or Bilderberg group.
You can vote out the puppets but the true leaders remain in place. Turds like Greenspan are a perfect example. Different presidents, same agenda.
This is why I am becoming a Ron Paul supporter. He is the only candidate that has rejected and never been a member of these groups.
Then again, the same was true of Reagan until he took on GHB to be VP
the problem is the republicans and democrats are not right or left OF THE PEOPLE any more ? they are just right or left of each OTHER !
on a scale of 0 to 100 where 50 is the middle balance that our countries founders thought would balance the peoples voices and the gov power
they are at the 0 and 2 mark yes one is right of the other but both are so far off the middle balance point and so out of touch with the American people anymore
its not about the American people anymore its about their own power and greed and what they get out of this as a career
The problem with Democrats/Left and Republicans/Right is both sides are backed by the same bankers, corporate interest and globalists.
They might shout at each other, but both groups have the same goal at their core due to the same handlers behind the scenes. Goldman Sachs funded both McCain and Obama. Every Presidential cabinet we have had in the last 40 years has been stacked with member of the Skulls, federal reserve, Council on foreign relations, The Trilateral Commission or Bilderberg group.
You can vote out the puppets but the true leaders remain in place. Turds like Greenspan are a perfect example. Different presidents, same agenda.
This is why I am becoming a Ron Paul supporter. He is the only candidate that has rejected and never been a member of these groups.
Then again, the same was true of Reagan until he took on GHB to be VP
American politics is truly a divide and conquer strategy being used against the American people. Basically both parties take turns getting what they want from the people in a cooperative manner. They no longer represent us, they represent themselves.
The problem with Democrats/Left and Republicans/Right is both sides are backed by the same bankers, corporate interest and globalists.
They might shout at each other, but both groups have the same goal at their core due to the same handlers behind the scenes.
I think of it like WWF WRESTLING. They come out and put on a show but are the best of friends back in the locker room.
I think of it like WWF WRESTLING. They come out and put on a show but are the best of friends back in the locker room.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Obama-Bush-Clinton.jpg
http://www.opednews.com/populum/uploaded/george-bush-bill-clinton-2430-20080210-44.jpg
I think of it like WWF WRESTLING. They come out and put on a show but are the best of friends back in the locker room.
Some of them live together in DC, sharing rented houses/apartments to save money "across party lines" as it were.
I think it's mostly show. We got skyrocketing deficits and massively increased government under Bush with a Republican Congress. To be fair to Bush, he didn't actually run as a real conservative (at least for those of us paying attention), but a lot of Republicans that did run as conservatives toed the party line whenever it came to support the Pres. against the conservative agenda.
The only people who are consistent (by virtue of their "values") are the Democrats. They are open about wanting to grow government and confiscate private earnings. The Repubs do the same thing when they have the ball, they just lie about it to make it seem like they have competing ideas.
Hell, even Reagan (a man I still have tremendous respect for regardless) sold out some of conservative principles. Government that he claimed was the problem grew under his watch anyway.
Some of them live together in DC, sharing rented houses/apartments to save money "across party lines" as it were.
I think it's mostly show. We got skyrocketing deficits and massively increased government under Bush with a Republican Congress. To be fair to Bush, he didn't actually run as a real conservative (at least for those of us paying attention), but a lot of Republicans that did run as conservatives toed the party line whenever it came to support the Pres. against the conservative agenda.
The only people who are consistent (by virtue of their "values") are the Democrats. They are open about wanting to grow government and confiscate private earnings. The Repubs do the same thing when they have the ball, they just lie about it to make it seem like they have competing ideas.
Hell, even Reagan (a man I still have tremendous respect for regardless) sold out some of conservative principles. Government that he claimed was the problem grew under his watch anyway.
While Regan was the best President in my lifetime, he was an actor, especially while in office. He was not the conservative that he is sometime made out to be.
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