View Full Version : Car 15
philipeggo
02-11-11, 20:49
I want a CAR 15 , besides the legal paper work what parts would i go with? from the pictures it looks like an A2 upper , maybe a 10 in barrel with a long flash suppressor and your standard m4 stock. But the hand-guards Wikipedia shows are funky. They look like m16 hand-guards but much smaller in diameter. I was just curious because im trying to plan out my builds, and since theres a gun show this weekend id like to pick up some parts. oh and it looks like theres no forward assist.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/USAF_MP_with_Colt_Commando.JPEG
Whootsinator
02-11-11, 20:53
I'm no vintage/historical AR-15/M4/M16 buff, but I will help with two things I do know. That is an A1 upper (look at the carry handle and rear sight) with A2 handguards, and the stock would be a CAR stock, not an M4 stock.
philipeggo
02-11-11, 20:56
I'm no vintage/historical AR-15/M4/M16 buff, but I will help with two things I do know. That is an A1 upper (look at the carry handle and rear sight) with A2 handguards, and the stock would be a CAR stock, not an M4 stock.
Thanks for the info, I couldn't see the stock so well so i took a shot in the dark.
philipeggo
02-11-11, 20:58
one question about the hand-guards though : theres no way they could be normal length,where the heck would i find a set?
Nodak-Spud is a great place to find vintage type parts. You can call or email them and they will be happy to help.
http://www.nodakspud.com/
one question about the hand-guards though : theres no way they could be normal length,where the heck would i find a set?
The handguards in the above picture look like standard carbine length CAR handguards to me.
The buttstock appears to be an aluminum unit.
I think the upper is an M16 upper, not an M16A1 the A1 had a forward assist. IIRC the stock is an aluminum two position and the castile nut was put on with a spanner wrench.
Whootsinator
02-11-11, 21:28
I think the upper is an M16 upper, not an M16A1 the A1 had a forward assist. IIRC the stock is an aluminum two position and the castile nut was put on with a spanner wrench.
You're very right! I just saw the rear sight and thought 'A1'.
And this is why I shouldn't be giving vintage AR advice... Philipeggo, listen to these people. ;)
philipeggo
02-11-11, 21:37
You're very right! I just saw the rear sight and thought 'A1'.
And this is why I shouldn't be giving vintage AR advice... Philipeggo, listen to these people. ;)
lol thanks for all the input, now to go shopping . I may substitute the m16 upper with the A1 upper but i did find that brownells had genuine colt m16 uppers for sale :-D. why didnt we pick a cheaper hobby?
Whootsinator
02-11-11, 21:41
lol thanks for all the input, now to go shopping . I may substitute the m16 upper with the A1 upper but i did find that brownells had genuine colt m16 uppers for sale :-D. why didnt we pick a cheaper hobby?
Don't be fooled, there's no such thing as a cheap hobby if you really turn it into a hobby.
Check out www.retroblackrifle.com . They have a section devoted to military carbines and can give you an idea of what parts you might need.
"CAR-15" means a lot of different things to different people. To build a replica like that in the picture, you'll need to go the SBR route and do paperwork and get a tax stamp from BATFE. An alternate is to build a clone with a slightly longer barrel, which, when matched with a repro flash hider, looks very similar to a 11.5" bbl length Colt 629/XM-177E2:
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7540/ar6292.jpg
philipeggo
02-13-11, 09:16
Thanks for all the help guys , once my current project gets down ill get under way with this one. The web resources you gave me were great and i found a guy locally who may have a few original colt m16 uppers.
one question about the hand-guards though : theres no way they could be normal length,where the heck would i find a set?
They are standard length carbine hand guards. You can purchase a set of them here (http://www.specializedarmament.com/products/HANDGUARD_ASSY_CARBINE_SINGLE_HEAT_SHIELD_VIETNAM_ERA_PRESENT_DISCONTINUED-250-0.html)
Is the flash suppressor on the real CAR-15's the moderator? If so were all of them equipped this way?
Is the flash suppressor on the real CAR-15's the moderator? If so were all of them equipped this way?
The carbine pictured in the photo is an Air Force GAU-5. There has never been a "CAR-15".
The carbine pictured in the photo is an Air Force GAU-5. There has never been a "CAR-15".
Is that a moderator on the pictured GAU-5? Please elaborate.
Is the flash suppressor on the real CAR-15's the moderator? If so were all of them equipped this way?
It is a moderator that has flash hiding cabability put into it.
The moderator is basically halfway between a silencer and a flash hider. It hides flash and has a little bit of silencing cabablility.
It is also legally considered a silencer due to its capabiltiy to reduce sound.
motorwerks
02-14-11, 16:09
yup I would do the 11.5 barrel with the 5.5inch hider/moderator too.
"CAR-15" means a lot of different things to different people. To build a replica like that in the picture, you'll need to go the SBR route and do paperwork and get a tax stamp from BATFE. An alternate is to build a clone with a slightly longer barrel, which, when matched with a repro flash hider, looks very similar to a 11.5" bbl length Colt 629/XM-177E2:
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7540/ar6292.jpg
What barrel length did you use on this? Also where did you get the flash hider? Thanks.
The carbine pictured in the photo is an Air Force GAU-5. There has never been a "CAR-15".
Actually, there were several weapons referred to and/or designated as "CAR-15". Colt had a "CAR-15" program, and it is in some of their literature from the period. I have a few old catalogs around here, but the easiest way to check on it is in "The Black Rifle".
The terminology is used in many noted publications also.
Actually, there were several weapons referred to and/or designated as "CAR-15". Colt had a "CAR-15" program, and it is in some of their literature from the period. I have a few old catalogs around here, but the easiest way to check on it is in "The Black Rifle".
The terminology is used in many noted publications also.
He already knows that.
1. CAR-15 (Colt AR-15) as it refers to the first dozen or so AR-15 models 603 to 614 isn't the same as this thread.
2. CAR-15 (Carbine AR-15) is jargon/slang used to talk about carbine length guns which is what this thread is about.
3. CAR-15 was also used at one time to mean Colt Automatic Rifle - 15 for the heavy barreled suppressive fire models (606, 741, 750)
When you hear "CAR-15", 99% of the time people are talking about #2. Only a very seasoned AR-15 person would know about #1 and #3.
Ok. Didn't seem so based on this statement:
There has never been a "CAR-15".
"After trials with a few one-off 'what if?' models, Colt's fociused on seven basic versions of the M16: the standard M16 rifle, both as issued and also fitted with a Colt-developed 40mm greandade launcer attachment; a carbine with a 15" barrel; two heavy-barrel bipod-supported 'M-1' (clip fed) and 'M-2' (belt fed) heavy assault rifles; a submachine gun with a 10" barrel and collapsible stock; and a no frills survival rifle."
That was prior to the term "CAR" being used as somewhat of a generic term to reference carbine or sub-machinegun versions as you stated, which I might add was the direct result of Colt
"inventing" the term to begin with.
What barrel length did you use on this? Also where did you get the flash hider? Thanks.
The barrel is a Bushmaster LW 16", and I got the pseudo moderator/grenade ring from a guy on TOS called 45Bravo. He cut and threaded the barrel to about 14.5 and slipped the moderator over the muzzle, then pinned it. The barrel actually ends just about 1.5" from the muzzle, and the OAL is 16.1".
These days I'd go with a pseudo moderator from a guy called Brick - he sells on GB and other places, then send it to ADCO with instructions. I've heard the turn around with them is about a week, as opposed to a year or more with the route I chose.
I was thinking about getting one of the "brick" moderators and a mid length DD barrel and have it cut down and threaded with a pinned/welded moderator. The point being that middy hanguards would go almost to the moderator looking more like a 629 without the SBR hasle.
I should add that I have no idea if a 12.5" middy with a 4.5" (one inch ovelaping on threads) fake moderator will cycle on a CAR buffer assy.
Slick Side A1 Upper, they have stocks, pistol grips and A1 uppers with Forward Assist too.
I just put one of these together and don't really need another but I really like the simplicity of this upper. Hell for $110 it's the price of a good BUIS!
http://www.jsesurplus.com/militarysu...variation=2133
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=374&pictureid=1897
Dam those slick sides musta gone quick.
Dam those slick sides musta gone quick.
http://www.jsesurplus.com/militarysurplusa1uppers-seedetailsforspecifics.aspx
I just checked and it said there are still 15 left.
The last link was no good.
This may illuminate: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD837082&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf
http://www.jsesurplus.com/militarysurplusa1uppers-seedetailsforspecifics.aspx
I just checked and it said there are still 15 left.
The last link was no good.
Duh. I did not see the option for slickside. My bad
torquemada055
04-19-11, 01:43
http://98.196.65.94/retroblackrifle/index.html
That's where you go for the answers to the different models, what you have in the picture is a 604 upper. Since it's a mish-mash of parts that's obviously an A.F. carbine and would be listed as either a GAU or GUU model. The 603 uppers have a forward assist. The 605 uppers have the forward assist bump milled off the forging, you can see examples of these at nodakspuds website, along with the lower variations.
For parts you can get them at AR15.com in the Equipment Exchange, at http://98.196.65.94/retroblackrifle/phpBB3/index.php it's the forum page for RBR.
http://www.pkfirearms.com/ has a good selection of retro parts.
http://www.gunthings.com/ has kit's
Lastly for the Brick's moderator and grenade ring repro's he has an ad on RBR in the want to sell section.
Here's my wifes mocked up the day it came back from ADCO after having it cut, crowned, threaded and having the moderator and grenade ring perm installed. I forgot to have the bayonet lug and forge flash removed so it isnt an accurate clone. I also used the 607 handguards as they fit her small hands better than the round carbine handguards.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x140/torquemada55/PICT3982.jpg
Go for the 10" upper with moderator.
http://www.fototime.com/D8D455823D72CC4/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/F5142371DC18455/standard.jpg
Go for the 10" upper with moderator.
http://www.fototime.com/D8D455823D72CC4/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/F5142371DC18455/standard.jpg
You always have nice stuff UXB.
-Tom
Not to get to nerdy but is it accurate to have the sling attachment? I thought they were missing or ground off or somthing on the carbines.
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