Glock vs SIG [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

signal4l

02-12-11, 08:32

Try the P6 before you buy. I owned one and could not get it to feed my 124 g gold dots. I had the ramp polished and still no go. The P6 mags are expensive and dont hold up well if you drop them on a hard surface.

I am not a fan of single stack 9mm pistols. Shoving that skinny little mag into the skinny little mag well is not as easy as reloading a weapon with a tapered, double column mag.

The P6 pistols are still less expensive than the other Sigs. By the time you buy a few mags you wont save that much money.

I you like your P226 buy yourself a P228. If you have to have a single stack 9mm, get a P239.

Seraph

02-12-11, 08:44

Between the two listed choices, I'd go for the Glock 17, simply because it seems more useful. The P6 is the the size of a Glock 19, with half the capacity, and expensive magazines. On the other hand, if you're currently carrying that Sig P226, then you should just get another Sig P226.

chuckman

02-12-11, 12:06

Striker

02-12-11, 12:28

kmrtnsn

02-12-11, 12:33

"9mm conversion barrel"

A euphemism for "Immediate Action Training Device".

chuckman

02-12-11, 12:45

If you didn't like the Glock 19, I assume you don't like the 23 either. If it's helpful, I have a P225 and I really like it. It has been reliable and it's very accurate, but to me it's a CCW pistol, nothing else. Because it's a single stack, it has a slimmer grip which makes it easier to conceal. If you're looking for a combat pistol where concealment doesn't matter, I think there are better choices, including the aforementioned P226.

Yes, it would be a CCW pistol. It's not that I didn't like the G19. I liked it "OK," but shot other pistols better. I traded it for the 226 and didn't look back. I happened to find myself getting a G23 purely by happenstance but want to consolidate all my pistols to 9mm (aside from range time, the yearly class, and CCW, I just don't have a need to get anything other than 9mm).

S-1

02-12-11, 13:08

Yes, it would be a CCW pistol. It's not that I didn't like the G19. I liked it "OK," but shot other pistols better. I traded it for the 226 and didn't look back. I happened to find myself getting a G23 purely by happenstance but want to consolidate all my pistols to 9mm (aside from range time, the yearly class, and CCW, I just don't have a need to get anything other than 9mm).

If you shoot SIGs better than Glocks, then get the SIG. It's also best to keep the same manual of arms.

variablebinary

02-12-11, 13:15

Glock
M&P
HK

Any one of those over SIG USA product any day of the week.

German made SIG's are still among the best of the best. If they work for you, then roll with it unless "Made in Exeter" is anywhere to be seen.

S-1

02-12-11, 13:46

gtmtnbiker98

02-12-11, 15:27

l8apex

02-12-11, 22:33

TacticalTaco

02-12-11, 22:53

If we're talking NEW sigs, run like hell. W. German P226 is hands down the finest 9mm ever produced. Ever.

ucrt

02-12-11, 23:11

Good points, all. The argument is moot now...I just found out the Glock is off the table. But, new question: I can trade a Glock 23 for the SIG (straight trade); or, save a little $, and buy a 9mm conversion barrel for the SIG. Opinions?

========================

I think the Glock is worth more than the Sig. The P225's are usually German Police trade-ins and I've seen them as cheap as $275-$300 w/ 2 mags and a holster. Last one I saw was priced at $325.
Your Glock should be worth about $400-$425 - if it is in any kind of good shape.

Sell the Glock, save a little, buy another German 226.

But maybe it's just me...

.

Striker

02-12-11, 23:29

Yes, it would be a CCW pistol. It's not that I didn't like the G19. I liked it "OK," but shot other pistols better. I traded it for the 226 and didn't look back. I happened to find myself getting a G23 purely by happenstance but want to consolidate all my pistols to 9mm (aside from range time, the yearly class, and CCW, I just don't have a need to get anything other than 9mm).

Ok. You like the 226, I don't see any reason why you won't like the P6. I've shot both the 226 and 225 pretty extensively and, to me, the 225 is exactly as it seems; a compact version of your current gun. 9mm works fine for me as well, so I understand your line of thinking.

dvdlpzus

02-12-11, 23:59

I used to own a Glock 19 RTF2 with 3.5 Scherer Connector and the NY1. It was a nice handgun which was very reliable for me, however; could not take the limp wristing of my wife. I was just never able to get used to it. I sold it and bought and M&P9 which I am a lot happier with and my wife has not had any limp wristing issues with it. I have been shooting my friend's Gen 4 G17 which is an amazing handgun. I like it equally to my M&P9 and I am equally comfortable. If you want a Glock I would recommend a Gen 4 G17. :)

darr3239

02-13-11, 00:44

Like previously mentioned, about a $100 in price used, and a major difference in magazine capacity.

Another factor is the difference in bore line between Sigs and Glocks. The higher the bore line, the more difficult it is to make quick follow-up shots. 9mm isn't a big deal, but heavier recoiling rounds it becomes immediately evident.

In reference to the P226, most people will find the grip is too large, especially when reaching for the double action trigger, on the first pull. One can't compare it to the smaller framed Sigs, unless the newer versions have a smaller grip.

S-1

02-13-11, 02:19

If we're talking NEW sigs, run like hell. W. German P226 is hands down the finest 9mm ever produced. Ever.

Really? While your LNIB German P226 is a very fine firearm, I really doubt that you have significant amount of rounds out of both versions to come to that conclusion. Don't be "that guy" and say things that you know nothing about just because you read it on the errornet from a guy that has the same experience (very little) with the weapon as you.

Like I've said, and so have few other guys (PPGMD comes to mind) that have lots of experience with both versions of SIGs, that the newer stainless slide versions of the Classic series are better hard use weapons. Less maintenance, better finish, better rust resistance, better triggers etc etc.

I posted this quote in another thread, and I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but I'm getting tired of reading the same drivel. These quotes are straight from the horses mouth. A very experienced SEAL that probably has hundreds of thousands of rounds through both versions of SIGs.

"The heavier stainless slide has a few features which are somewhat better than the older model.
The extractor is better, in my opinion, as it does not require the inner and outer roll pins in the breechblock to be replaced every 5,000 rounds. There simply are no pins to change. SEALs burn through A LOT of 9mm. The SIGs can handle it, but it made changing the roll pins a common occurance.

The stainless slide works a little better with Simunitions kits.

The beefier stainless slide makes shooting 9mm 147 gr. bullets feel like you're shooting a Ruger Mk II. Regular 115 gr. 9mm is toned down, also.

There is better corrosion resistance with the newer slide.

Of side interest- I much prefer the older plastic grips to the new pebble textured ones."

"I have not noticed, nor has anyone else I know noticed a decrease in reliability since 2005. In fact, we have also been using P239's as well as some P228's. They are all reliable. I recently met with some of our foreign SOF allies and their SIGs are running tip top, as well."

"News to me. I have seen no issues with either GI or personally purchased SIGs."

stevenscobra

02-13-11, 04:50

Glock.

I carry a 19 everyday.

stevenscobra

02-13-11, 04:51

TacticalTaco

02-13-11, 07:56

Really? While your LNIB German P226 is a very fine firearm, I really doubt that you have significant amount of rounds out of both versions to come to that conclusion. Don't be "that guy" and say things that you know nothing about just because you read it on the errornet from a guy that has the same experience (very little) with the weapon as you.

Like I've said, and so have few other guys (PPGMD comes to mind) that have lots of experience with both versions of SIGs, that the newer stainless slide versions of the Classic series are better hard use weapons. Less maintenance, better finish, better rust resistance, better triggers etc etc.

I posted this quote in another thread, and I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but I'm getting tired of reading the same drivel. These quotes are straight from the horses mouth. A very experienced SEAL that probably has hundreds of thousands of rounds through both versions of SIGs.

Thanks for trying to be the omnipotent douche bag of the day, assuming I have no experience with new sigs.

I have owned 2 new ones and 2 old ones. A new P220 Combat, and a P226R. Both had problems, sorry for having an opinion. Also your SEAL friend doesn't get issued the same SIGS we buy, I'm pretty sure they get the X5 which is made in Germany.

Frank207

02-13-11, 08:44

Having 12 Sig handguns at one time, and then dealing with the Customer Service department for some minor issues on a new line. After the 3rd strike with CS, I sold all of them ..

To bad Sig makes a good gun but has horrible Customer Service.

deeHKman

02-13-11, 08:58

Glock.

I carry a 19 everyday.

I also carry a Glock 19 EDC. My favorite carry size.

I used to own a Glock 19 RTF2 with 3.5 Scherer Connector and the NY1. It was a nice handgun which was very reliable for me, however; could not take the limp wristing of my wife. I was just never able to get used to it. I sold it and bought and M&P9 which I am a lot happier with and my wife has not had any limp wristing issues with it. I have been shooting my friend's Gen 4 G17 which is an amazing handgun. I like it equally to my M&P9 and I am equally comfortable. If you want a Glock I would recommend a Gen 4 G17. :)

Have you ever thought she was limp wristing because of the texture. I have a 19,17,21 and 22 all rtf2 my favorite texture. But i could see the texture could bother some people especially women just a thought.

Glock
M&P
HK

Any one of those over SIG USA product any day of the week.

German made SIG's are still among the best of the best. If they work for you, then roll with it unless "Made in Exeter" is anywhere to be seen.

I hade 2 226's my German Engineer compared mine to his German one since both of my 226's were given problems. He told me what was wrong. I traded and never looked back. The shot fine no jams i would not trade a gun that had the potential to get another person hurt.

chakup

02-13-11, 09:07

With those choices the Glock hands down. If you want a good sig carry gun look at the 228/229 or 239. You can find these very lightly used for good deals with a little looking!

markm

02-13-11, 09:33

SIG = Needlessly overly complicated piece of shit.

G34Shooter

02-13-11, 10:33

I don't know how much people who comment on the qc of Sig has actually shot high round counts out of them. I have and the only difference I see is cosmetic. As far as the operation,accuracy and reliability, it is the same - excellent.

I'd go with a P229 E2, same manual of arms and an excellent package overall. Glock isn't for everyone, even though I own 3 and 2 Sigs.

The amount of cheap outsourced MIM parts have increased and the amount of work for Bruce Gray has gone up which has not been a coincidence. How many hammers, extractors, locking blocks have you seen broken before they changed them to the cheaper stuff?

This has been discussed a few months back.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=850310&postcount=26

S-1

02-13-11, 12:39

Thanks for trying to be the omnipotent douche bag of the day, assuming I have no experience with new sigs.

I have owned 2 new ones and 2 old ones. A new P220 Combat, and a P226R. Both had problems, sorry for having an opinion.

What kind of problems? What knd of lube were you using? How many rounds did you fire out of them? Did you contact SIG about them?

Also your SEAL friend doesn't get issued the same SIGS we buy, I'm pretty sure they get the X5 which is made in Germany.

Wrong again.

stevenscobra

02-13-11, 12:44

The amount of cheap outsourced MIM parts have increased and the amount of work for Bruce Gray has gone up which has not been a coincidence. How many hammers, extractors, locking blocks have you seen broken before they changed them to the cheaper stuff?

This has been discussed a few months back.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=850310&postcount=26

haven't seen this. thanks!

S-1

02-13-11, 12:54

The amount of cheap outsourced MIM parts have increased and the amount of work for Bruce Gray has gone up which has not been a coincidence. How many hammers, extractors, locking blocks have you seen broken before they changed them to the cheaper stuff?

I have seen a total of zero broken parts on the new or old SIGs. Wait, my Mosquito's safety broke, but that's not even made by SIG. They still replaced it even after it was out of warranty. I remember that my BILs German P220 broke a trigger bar spring while he was at the academy about 8 years ago, with less than 3k rounds through. (OMG! How can a German SIG fail).

It's funny that you mentioned Bruce Gray and his work. APEX has also been quite busy lately since a new wonder pistol has been out, correct? ;)

G34Shooter

02-13-11, 13:00

I have seen a total of zero broken parts on the new or old SIGs. Wait, my Mosquito's safety broke, but that's not even made by SIG. They still replaced it even after it was out of warranty. I remember that my BILs German P220 broke a trigger bar spring while he was at the academy about 8 years ago, with less than 3k rounds through. (OMG! How can a German SIG fail).

It's funny that you mentioned Bruce Gray and his work. APEX has also been quite busy lately since a new wonder pistol has been out, correct? ;)

Yeah, but it's mainly to fix what I consider a mediocre trigger while the factory is correcting ost of the durability and reliability issues.

S-1

02-13-11, 13:08

haven't seen this. thanks!

You may also want to take a look at this thread. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=71378

Pay attention to what PPGMD says. He knows SIGs more than anyone else on this forum.

S-1

02-13-11, 13:28

I'm sure the link to his little article was enough, don't need to take up half a page with it.

G34Shooter

02-13-11, 13:28

I'm sure the link to his little article was enough, don't need to take up half a page with it.

Thanks DAD, did you need to take up 1/4 of the page then? https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=908232&postcount=20

S-1

02-13-11, 13:42

Thanks DAD, did you need to take up 1/4 of the page then? https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=908232&postcount=20

Yeah, to prove a point. I quoted a SME (KevH isn't a SME, sorry) from another forum, that has more rounds out of handguns than 99% of this forum, and the plastic wonder fanboyz here still blow it off.

I find it funny and entertaining at the same time.

mattjmcd

02-13-11, 13:46

I'm sure the link to his little article was enough, don't need to take up half a page with it.

Respectfully, I didn't see the extra text as a major issue. It just wasn't that long a snippet. YMMV, naturally.

For the OP- I prefer German-proofed SIG/Sauer firearms, but I have had no issues with my stainless Exeter 226 in .357 or my 229 in .40. Both have been traded away, but not before fairly high round-count tours in my shooting rotation. IMO, of the "new" guns, I think the safest bet is the 229 in 9mm. ( I have owned multiples of 228's and 226's in 9mm, a 229, a 239, a 226 in .357, a P6, and a 230 )

I still feel that I can be fairly confident in a newer SIG, but I have heard too many credible first-hand accounts of guns having QC issues more or less out of the box to trust them as completely as I once did. Some diehards will point to the relative success being enjoyed by people shooting .gov and .mil contract units. True enough, I reckon, but as previously mentioned, contract guns might be made and QC'd to a different standard. In fact, they almost certainly are.

If I were in the OP's shoes, I'd consider a pre-loved 228. If you are going to shoot a lot with your carry gun, maybe get a 229 in 9mm. IMO the P6 is a neat pistol but the triggers are often quite heavy.

mattjmcd

02-13-11, 13:48

Yeah, to prove a point. I quoted a SME (KevH isn't a SME, sorry) from another forum, that has more rounds out of handguns than 99% of this forum, and the plastic wonder fanboyz here still blow it off.

I find it funny and entertaining at the same time.

I think there as a potentially important distinction to be made here. Was your NSW buddy shooting an off-the-shelf commercial SIG? If so, then the point is valuable albeit still a bit questionable. If not, then... you know what they say about apples and oranges.

G34Shooter

02-13-11, 13:52

Yeah, to prove a point. I quoted a SME (KevH isn't a SME, sorry) from another forum, that has more rounds out of handguns than 99% of this forum, and the plastic wonder fanboyz here still blow it off.

I find it funny and entertaining at the same time.

Maybe he's not a SME, but his info on Beretta's and Sig's are spot on with the information given to me by a lead Firearm Instructor I'm closely related too of the S.F.P.D. who transitioned to the P226R and P229R for its 2,000+ officers and the many problems they had.

http://pistol-training.com/articles/kevhs-very-opinionated-guide-to-the-beretta-92

"I’m good friends with a San Francisco PD (SFPD) rangemaster and got to have a front row seat to watch their transition to the Sig 226R and 229R. So here is the deal that they were experiencing."

S-1

02-13-11, 13:53

I think there as a potentially important distinction to be made here. Was your NSW buddy shooting an off-the-shelf commercial SIG? If so, then the point is valuable albeit still a bit questionable. If not, then... you know what they say about apples and oranges.

First off, he's not my "buddy." I have only chatted with him through PM's a few times. He is good friends with Doc Roberts I believe, who I am sure can vouch for his creds, if you feel the need.

Re-read what I quoted and you'll find your answer.

G34Shooter

02-13-11, 13:57

S-1

02-13-11, 14:05

Maybe he's not a SME, but his info on Beretta's and Sig's are spot on with the information given to me by a lead Firearm Instructor I'm closely related too of the S.F.P.D. who transitioned to the P226R and P229R for its 2,000+ officers and the many problems they had.

http://pistol-training.com/articles/kevhs-very-opinionated-guide-to-the-beretta-92

"I’m good friends with a San Francisco PD (SFPD) rangemaster and got to have a front row seat to watch their transition to the Sig 226R and 229R. So here is the deal that they were experiencing."

I can sit here all day long and post Dept. X and Y had many problems with Glocks and M&P's too. But I choose not to because I'm not a fanboy, and I realize that ALL firearm manufactures can have spotty QC, put out lemons, and that shit breaks on mechanical devices.

Here's a write up that PPGMD did on the P228R.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/3202

It's a German frame/slide with US internals. I have one, and now wish I would have bought an all US made P239 instead, just for the stainless steel slide. I'm making up for it though and ordering the P239 tomorrow.;)

S-1

02-13-11, 14:08

Very good point, FWIR there's different Tiers of QC depending on who it goes too.

Every Co. has different tiers/QC on their guns... at least they try to. My last G19 was a blue label/LE gun and I was not impressed with it to say the least.

G34Shooter

02-13-11, 14:11

I can sit here all day long and post Dept. X and Y had many problems with Glocks and M&P's too. But I choose not to because I'm not a fanboy, and I realize that ALL firearm manufactures can have spotty QC, put out lemons, and that shit breaks on mechanical devices.Here's a write up that PPGMD did on the P228R.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/3202

It's a German frame/slide with US internals. I have one, and now wish I would have bought an all US made P239 instead, just for the stainless steel slide. I'm making up for it though and ordering the P239 tomorrow.;)

I agree that all companies do as well, but do you think the changes to the civilian model Sig's of MIM parts was made to increase its durability and reliability or their profits?

Just to make you happy, I'll post something that you might like that my family member use to carry:
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad251/SShenaniguns/17a70e5d.jpg

S-1

02-13-11, 14:30

I agree that all companies do as well, but do you think the changes to the civilian model Sig's of MIM parts was made to increase its durability and reliability or their profits?

Just to make you happy, I'll post something that you might like that my family member use to carry:

There are only a few MIM parts in SIGs, both the commercial and LE guns have them. I know because I have both, and break them down to nothing (bare frame) to clean/lube before I fire a round. Even SIG Germany uses MIM parts, and had to find a way to keep prices lower to compete with the plastic wonders. Why do you think SIG was trying to push the POS P250 so much? Because there's a LOT of profit in the plastic guns.

The whole MIM part thing has been debated to death on every gun forum. Some people say it's just as good if not stronger, while others say it makes the gun trash. I don't care either way, the MIM parts are not as pleasing to the eyes, but they haven't broke either, and that's all that I care about because I don't own safe queens. If MIM parts are peoples biggest bitch, then they better stop buying guns because most, if not all, have them now. Some of the new plastic wonder pistols frame rails are MIM. At least the Classic SIGs haven't stooped that low. ;)

Nice 556. I don't have experience with them, though the new 556R has got my interest.

variablebinary

02-13-11, 16:17

Every Co. has different tiers/QC on their guns...

No they don't.

G34Shooter

02-13-11, 17:05

Nice 556. I don't have experience with them, though the new 556R has got my interest.

Actually, it's a Swiss made SG551-2 with a selector :D

S-1

02-13-11, 17:35

No they don't.

The vast majority do. Most have a commercial division and LE/MIL division. HK, SIG, S&W, Colt, Beretta, Glock etc etc.

Supposedly, the LE/MIL guns get special treatment, but from what I have seen from a few of the companies "LE" guns, left me scratching my head.

SWATcop556

02-13-11, 17:42

The bickering needs to stop. Let's keep this civil gentlemen.

Alaskapopo

02-13-11, 18:14

Really? While your LNIB German P226 is a very fine firearm, I really doubt that you have significant amount of rounds out of both versions to come to that conclusion. Don't be "that guy" and say things that you know nothing about just because you read it on the errornet from a guy that has the same experience (very little) with the weapon as you.

Like I've said, and so have few other guys (PPGMD comes to mind) that have lots of experience with both versions of SIGs, that the newer stainless slide versions of the Classic series are better hard use weapons. Less maintenance, better finish, better rust resistance, better triggers etc etc.

I posted this quote in another thread, and I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but I'm getting tired of reading the same drivel. These quotes are straight from the horses mouth. A very experienced SEAL that probably has hundreds of thousands of rounds through both versions of SIGs.
My most recent Sig experience. I took a Federal Forest Service agent to the range to run him through his agencies qualification course. His Sig 229 chocked 4 times in just 100 rounds. Not impressed. The Sig 229 I owned 15 years ago ran like a champ. This is just one example of new Sig USA products not running as they should. Sig USA's quality control has taken a huge dive.
Pat

S-1

02-13-11, 18:19

My most recent Sig experience. I took a Federal Forest Service agent to the range to run him through his agencies qualification course. His Sig 229 chocked 4 times in just 100 rounds. Not impressed. The Sig 229 I owned 15 years ago ran like a champ. This is just one example of new Sig USA products not running as they should. Sig USA's quality control has taken a huge dive.
Pat

Pat, I can say that about every single common service pistol made today. Way too many variables to make blanket statements about a brand over one or even ten guns.

For example... My most recent "LE" G19 was a POS. It shot waaay left, so much so that I had to move the rear sight so for to the right, that if I would have moved it any further, it would have been hanging off of the slide. Plus, it had more malfuntions than any other service pistol that I have owned. Does that make all Glocks crap? NOPE! It means that I got a lemon, which happens from every company. Shit happens... but I don't come on to the errornet and make blanket statements bashing a brand because of that experience.

Alaskapopo

02-13-11, 20:12

Pat, I can say that about every single common service pistol made today. Way too many variables to make blanket statements about a brand over one or even ten guns.

For example... My most recent "LE" G19 was a POS. It shot waaay left, so much so that I had to move the rear sight so for to the right, that if I would have moved it any further, it would have been hanging off of the slide. Plus, it had more malfuntions than any other service pistol that I have owned. Does that make all Glocks crap? NOPE! It means that I got a lemon, which happens from every company. Shit happens... but I don't come on to the errornet and make blanket statements bashing a brand because of that experience.

If this were my only witnessed bad experience with recent sigs then you would have a point. But unfortunately there has been a lot more than just this one example. It just happened to be the most recent. Every company does release a lemon but some release a lot more than others. For example its possible to get a good Bushmaster rifle but your chances of getting a lemon are a lot higher than with Colt.
Pat

DanjojoUSMC

02-13-11, 20:33

loupav

02-13-11, 20:38

Good thing P6's were all made in Germany. Stick with the same manual of arms and go with the P6. Yes you may have to work on the chamber to get it to feed hollow points, but it's a small price to pay.

Good luck.

Alaskapopo

02-13-11, 20:42

If going by the number of lemons and duds to persuade others not to choose a SIG, then we'd probably all have to recommend HK pistols alone.

Certainly the most recommended on here, Glocks and M&P's, have not had less lemons - even in these past 5 years of "New SIGs"

Especially to see the people who champion the M&P series talk about how bad the SIGs are...is very shocking to say the least.

HK does make quality firearms but I just don't care for them. I carried a full size USP in 45 as my first duty pistol. It was top heavy magnified muzzle flip, Trigger sucks. I hate the LEM triggers. I prefer single action or short trigger actions like the Glock or M&P.

As for Glocks I only like their 9mm's and they have been very reliable over the years except for a few issues with the 19 a few years back.
Pat

PPGMD

02-13-11, 20:44

My most recent Sig experience. I took a Federal Forest Service agent to the range to run him through his agencies qualification course. His Sig 229 chocked 4 times in just 100 rounds.

DAK, with harder primers (like lead free or frangible ammo)? If so that is common (and has nothing to do with Sig USA), and it's suggested to put a small washer between the spring, and the main spring seat.

Beyond that it might have been ammo factors, or other factors. I know that my M&P doesn't like WWB for some reason, and have had a failure rate slightly lower than 1% with it.

G34Shooter

02-13-11, 20:54

DAK, with harder primers (like lead free or frangible ammo)? If so that is common (and has nothing to do with Sig USA), and it's suggested to put a small washer between the spring, and the main spring seat.

Beyond that it might have been ammo factors, or other factors. I know that my M&P doesn't like WWB for some reason, and have had a failure rate slightly lower than 1% with it.

Is it an extraction issue with wwb? That's a known problem with 9mm M&P's and shallow rimmed wwb.

TacticalTaco

02-13-11, 20:58

Is it an extraction issue with wwb? That's a known problem with 9mm M&P's and shallow rimmed wwb.

Never noticed that in the thousands of wwb I put through mine, interesting. Is it only on older models or something?

Alaskapopo

02-13-11, 21:01

DAK, with harder primers (like lead free or frangible ammo)? If so that is common (and has nothing to do with Sig USA), and it's suggested to put a small washer between the spring, and the main spring seat.

Beyond that it might have been ammo factors, or other factors. I know that my M&P doesn't like WWB for some reason, and have had a failure rate slightly lower than 1% with it.
It was not miss fires and it was duty ammo (Speer 180 grain Gold Dots) It was failures to feed. Yes it was the gun not the ammo as the same ammo worked fine in my STI Edge.
Pat

G34Shooter

02-13-11, 21:03

Never noticed that in the thousands of wwb I put through mine, interesting. Is it only on older models or something?

I believe it's due to the 9mm models sharing the .40 extractor and the varying tolerances between that and the wwb's possible shallow rim.

PPGMD

02-13-11, 21:17

Is it an extraction issue with wwb? That's a known problem with 9mm M&P's and shallow rimmed wwb.

Failure to fires.

S-1

02-13-11, 21:18

If this were my only witnessed bad experience with recent sigs then you would have a point. But unfortunately there has been a lot more than just this one example. It just happened to be the most recent. Every company does release a lemon but some release a lot more than others. For example its possible to get a good Bushmaster rifle but your chances of getting a lemon are a lot higher than with Colt.
Pat

Pat, like I said before, I could say that about every firearm.

Were I work, we see more problems with M&Ps and Glocks, but that is a few out of many. The H&K's and SIGs have proven to be more reliable.

PPGMD

02-13-11, 21:21

It was not miss fires and it was duty ammo (Speer 180 grain Gold Dots) It was failures to feed. Yes it was the gun not the ammo as the same ammo worked fine in my STI Edge.

I can't diagnose it remotely, but there are a number of reasons that it could happen, I would probably be looking at the barrel, the magazines, or the mainspring.

But anyways having random issues with a new pistol isn't unusual. Heck in 40 caliber Glocks are well known for their issues with weapon lights.

S-1

02-13-11, 21:23

Beyond that it might have been ammo factors, or other factors. I know that my M&P doesn't like WWB for some reason, and have had a failure rate slightly lower than 1% with it.

WWB ammo has slipped a little in QC. Out of the last couple of boxes I shot, I had 2 squibs and several rounds that were deformed enough that they weren't shootable.

G34Shooter

02-13-11, 21:24

Failure to fires.

Do you have the newest silver striker? I had that problem with RWS ammo until I put the latest revision in and now have no problem.

desert

02-13-11, 21:27

Sell the Glock, save a little, buy another German 226.

But maybe it's just me...

.

Agree, if it was me, I would get another WG/G SIG226

Only issue for me would be what's the better WG/G SIG226, Milled or Forged. I would like to see experts set us right on this. Perhaps in another thread if more appropriate. I've always thought Milled.

PPGMD

02-13-11, 21:41

Do you have the newest silver striker? I had that problem with RWS ammo until I put the latest revision in and now have no problem.

Yep it has the newest striker.

For the first 3,000 rounds I shot a mixture of Federal Champion, WWB, and BVAC. Only failures I've had was with WWB.

S-1

02-13-11, 21:41

Agree, if it was me, I would get another WG/G SIG226

Only issue for me would be what's the better WG/G SIG226, Milled or Forged. I would like to see experts set us right on this. Perhaps in another thread if more appropriate. I've always thought Milled.

The milled stainless slide models are more durable.

PPGMD

02-13-11, 21:43

WWB ammo has slipped a little in QC. Out of the last couple of boxes I shot, I had 2 squibs and several rounds that were deformed enough that they weren't shootable.

Maybe it was the QC, it was newer WWB, I don't have any laying around that is older. Ammo doesn't last long around me, it tends to disappear (where did my ammo go?).

G34Shooter

02-13-11, 21:45

Maybe it was the QC, it was newer WWB, I don't have any laying around that is older. Ammo doesn't last long around me, it tends to disappear (where did my ammo go?).

I'm betting it was the ammo.

Alaskapopo

02-13-11, 21:47

I can't diagnose it remotely, but there are a number of reasons that it could happen, I would probably be looking at the barrel, the magazines, or the mainspring.

But anyways having random issues with a new pistol isn't unusual. Heck in 40 caliber Glocks are well known for their issues with weapon lights.

I have witnessed this myself and its one of the reason I only like Glocks in 9mm. The Alaska State Troopers SIRT team is having issues with their weapon lights on their Glock 22's. Generally I am getting disgusted with the firearms industry in general. I guess its a sign of the times. But it seems that you need to pay semi custom prices to get old production gun standards for reliability. Production guns from a lot of companies are showing up with more and more issues. In the old days you could pretty much count on buying a Glock, Beretta or Sig and having it work from the box. That is not true today.
Pat

Redhat

02-13-11, 22:02

In the old days you could pretty much count on buying a Glock, Beretta or Sig and having it work from the box. That is not true today.

In the old days those guns didn't even exist! This is the same as todays shooter expecting to have to have a g-smith make their 1911 pattern gun reliable whenit should be out of the factory.

I think we have been suckered in to accepting sub-standard products.

Jake'sDad

02-13-11, 22:09

In the old days those guns didn't even exist!

I believe he was referring to as little as 15 years ago, when in fact, you could expect an out of the box Glock or SIG to run like a champ.

Redhat

02-13-11, 22:13

I believe he was referring to as little as 15 years ago, when in fact, you could expect an out of the box Glock or SIG to run like a champ.

I must be getting old as I still think of Glock and SIG P226 series as "new" designs...and I still expect them to run out of the box.

Jake'sDad

02-13-11, 22:18

I must be getting old as I still think of Glock and SIG P226 series as "new" designs...and I still expect them to run out of the box.

I carried a revolver on duty for the better part of 20 years before switching to an auto, so I think I can relate. Time marches on, and it appears QC has slipped in the current generation of SIG's and Glocks.

S-1

02-13-11, 22:20

I must be getting old as I still think of Glock and SIG P226 series as "new" designs...and I still expect them to run out of the box.

Most Glocks, HKs, SIGs, M&P's, Beretta's etc do run well out of the box. But it seems like more are leaving the factory that shouldn't be, than in the past.

Glock supposedly fixed the G22's problems with the Gen4, but at the same time, they screwed up their most reliable line, the 9mm.

Alaskapopo

02-13-11, 22:29

In the old days those guns didn't even exist! This is the same as todays shooter expecting to have to have a g-smith make their 1911 pattern gun reliable whenit should be out of the factory.

I think we have been suckered in to accepting sub-standard products.

Yes I was referring to 16 years ago when I started getting into guns.

variablebinary

02-13-11, 23:07

The vast majority do. Most have a commercial division and LE/MIL division. HK, SIG, S&W, Colt, Beretta, Glock etc etc.

Supposedly, the LE/MIL guns get special treatment, but from what I have seen from a few of the companies "LE" guns, left me scratching my head.

When Colt makes a 6920, it's built to the same standards as the M4. There is no turd line, and pro line.

SIG is the ONLY major firearms maker to say "If you want it built right, you need to pay extra and be LEO/MIL/FED".

Exeter = Fail. Ron Cohen ruined SIG. Thankfully all of our brand spanking new M11's are made in Germany. No way in hell I would want a SIG USA sidearm during the next rotation.

S-1

02-13-11, 23:25

SIG is the ONLY major firearms maker to say "If you want it built right, you need to pay extra and be LEO/MIL/FED".

Do you have proof of this? When I order a new SIG, I don't get asked if I want to pay more for a "better" model or less for a "cheaper" one. I've ordered them from a letterhead and through the LGS, and I've never heard of such a thing.

ETA... I'll just call my local SIG dealer Tuesday to see if there's any truth to this.

Exeter = Fail. Ron Cohen ruined SIG. Thankfully all of our brand spanking new M11's are made in Germany. No way in hell I would want a SIG USA sidearm during the next rotation.

The Cohen thing is your opinion. Some people say that SIG wouldn't be around if it wasn't for him. I do have to say that he sounds like an asshat though. Hopefully you guys like your new German M11's, because my new German P228 is probably my least favorite SIG. My US made models are better in every way, imo.

variablebinary

02-14-11, 04:05

Do you have proof of this? When I order a new SIG, I don't get asked if I want to pay more for a "better" model or less for a "cheaper" one. I've ordered them from a letterhead and through the LGS, and I've never heard of such a thing.

ETA... I'll just call my local SIG dealer Tuesday to see if there's any truth to this.

This is not the first time you've read this on M4C, and it wont be the last. There are some very smart people on this forum with strong industry ties, who have been around the block a few times, so it may behoove you take notes on this on this particular subject.

Obviously you failed to pay attention the first time: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73117&page=8

HK proofs all their pistols the same. Glock proofs all their pistols the same. Colt proofs all their carbines the same. It doesn't matter if the weapons are being paid for with a purchase order, or individual purchase. Everything is the same in terms of standards and materials. It doesnt mean they are perfect, but it does mean you can be assured that the Glock you buy is not inferior by design compared to what the FBI carries.

SIG uses entirely different QC procedures and materials for products slated for LE/MIL/GOV compared to pistols shipped to dealers. A dramatic example being the SIG 556 compared to the SIG 55x, but we find similar practices with the P series as well. This was part of Cohen's profit at the expense of the consumer initiative that permeates through all SIG products made in the USA. This is not the case with German made SIG's.

Whether or not you believe it, or regard it as internet conjecture and an anti-SIG conspiracy is irrelevant.

S-1

02-14-11, 05:29

Obviously you failed to pay attention the first time

You said..."SIG is the ONLY major firearms maker to say "If you want it built right, you need to pay extra and be LEO/MIL/FED".

No one said anything about paying "extra" for QC in that thread. I was in agreement that the contract guns do get extra attention. You make it sound like you can walk into a dealer and choose QC package A, B or C and pay accordingly.

There are some very smart people on this forum with strong industry ties, who have been around the block a few times, so it may behoove you take notes on this on this particular subject.

I honestly do NOT care who has "industry ties" because it doesn't impress me, and guns aren't my life. Yes, I know that there are smart people on here that have "been around the block," and you're not one of them.

HK proofs all their pistols the same. Glock proofs all their pistols the same. Colt proofs all their carbines the same. It doesn't matter if the weapons are being paid for with a purchase order, or individual purchase. Everything is the same in terms of standards and materials. It doesnt mean they are perfect, but it does mean you can be assured that the Glock you buy is not inferior by design compared to what the FBI carries.

So you really think that the contract guns from the above companies do not receive a little more TLC before leaving the factory? I will have to disagree.

SIG uses entirely different QC procedures and materials for products slated for LE/MIL/GOV compared to pistols shipped to dealers. A dramatic example being the SIG 556 compared to the SIG 55x, but we find similar practices with the P series as well.

I agree, that there is more QC on contract guns, but I have not seen the different materials that you mention between the commercial and LE/MIL guns. The 556 and 55x guns are completely different animals, really.

This is not the case with German made SIG's.

How do you know? Have you worked for SIG Germany? If you were a little closer to me, I would let you shoot my new(er) German P228R and compare it to my US P239 SAS that was made in December. The P239 blows the P228 out of the water, especially the trigger.

Whether or not you believe it, or regard it as internet conjecture and an anti-SIG conspiracy is irrelevant.

What I find really funny is, all of this hate and bickering is coming from an XCR fanboy! Maybe you should worry about their QC and peach of an owner, Mr. Robinson. With how smart you are, and with your "industry ties", it might behoove Mr. Robinson to take a few pointers from you regarding customer service and quality control.

variablebinary

02-14-11, 05:52

You said..."SIG is the ONLY major firearms maker to say "If you want it built right, you need to pay extra and be LEO/MIL/FED".

No one said anything about paying "extra" for QC in that thread. I was in agreement that the contract guns do get extra attention. You make it sound like you can walk into a dealer and choose QC package A, B or C and pay accordingly.

You can only walk into a dealer and buy substandard products. SIG doesn't give you a choice.

I honestly do NOT care who has "industry ties" because it doesn't impress me, and guns aren't my life. Yes, I know that there are smart people on here that have "been around the block," and you're not one of them.

Don't worry about what I do. And it's obvious guns aren't your life since you can't even tell a 556 from a 55x

So you really think that the contract guns from the above companies do not receive a little more TLC before leaving the factory? I will have to disagree.

Let's say even if they do get a little extra "TLC" to prevent a lemon slipping, they are still using the same baseline materials and QC to ensure a good product goes out the door no matter who is buying it. When people talk about the Kimberization of SIG that isn't a complement.

I agree, that there is more QC on contract guns, but I have not seen the different materials that you mention between the commercial and LE/MIL guns. The 556 and 55x guns are completely different animals, really.

How would you know? You can't tell the difference between the 556 and 55x.

How do you know? Have you worked for SIG Germany? If you were a little closer to me, I would let you shoot my new(er) German P228R and compare it to my US P239 SAS that was made in December. The P239 blows the P228 out of the water, especially the trigger.

There are 101 reasons why this is bad logic.

What I find really funny is, all of this hate and bickering is coming from an XCR fanboy! Maybe you should worry about their QC and peach of an owner, Mr. Robinson. With how smart you are, and with your "industry ties", it might behoove Mr. Robinson to take a few pointers from you regarding customer service and quality control.

I own several Colt's, multiple AR15's and 1 XCR, in addition to 6 other types of non-AR15 type weapons that I shoot to keep life interesting. I've said numerous times that my mainstays are Colt and LMT over everything, so you're barking up the wrong tree on this fanboy silliness. Attempting to make this topic personal doesn't make SIG a better company. If you want to talk to/about Alex Robinson, then email him.

SIG USA is the equivalent of Bushmaster. They have the tools, and the knowledge to make a good product, they just choose not to.

Someone said it best earlier in another thread

What you're detecting here isn't loathing: it is simply a well-earned ambivalence.

chuckman

02-14-11, 06:48

Thank you, gentlemen, for your input. Through all of this I am still on the fence regarding whether to trade for the P6.

My opinion re: SIG quality; anecdotally I believe the non-US SIGs to be of better quality. The only US-made SIG I have owned was a 1911 that came with a problem, and after some fighting they decided to fix the issue (they didn't want to). After the fix, it shot as well or better than many other 1911s I have had. My 226 is W. German, and the P6 is clearly German, which is a nod in the direction of getting the P6.

S-1

02-14-11, 07:03

You can only walk into a dealer and buy substandard products. SIG doesn't give you a choice.

Maybe you don't have a choice, but SIG gives me a choice.;) I have both "standard" and "substandard", and they both meet my standard of working without malfunctions and parts breakage. Unless you have first hand experience, it's hearsay.

Don't worry about what I do.

Trust me, you're the last thing that I am worried about.

And it's obvious guns aren't your life since you can't even tell a 556 from a 55x

No, I couldn't tell the difference by glancing at the pic for a split second. Is knowing the difference between a 556 and a 55x a pre-req to be a gun god?:confused:

Let's say even if they do get a little extra "TLC" to prevent a lemon slipping, they are still using the same baseline materials and QC to ensure a good product goes out the door no matter who is buying it.

Do you know that as fact, or is it just hearsay?

How would you know? You can't tell the difference between the 556 and 55x.

Because I tear my SIGs down to nothing (bare frame) to clean, inspect and lube them when needed. I have no need for a SIG rifle, so why would I care? My LMT/KAC rifle does everything I need it to do.

There are 101 reasons why this is bad logic.

Saying that I would offer to let you compare a couple of my pistols is bad logic?

I own several Colt's, multiple AR15's and 1 XCR, in addition to 6 other types of non-AR15 type weapons that I shoot to keep life interesting.

Cool. Most of my weapons are used for work, or are my ccw.

SIG USA is the equivalent of Bushmaster.

That's your opinion.

Palmguy

02-14-11, 07:14

I carried a revolver on duty for the better part of 20 years before switching to an auto, so I think I can relate. Time marches on, and it appears QC has slipped in the current generation of SIG's and Glocks.

Most Glocks, HKs, SIGs, M&P's, Beretta's etc do run well out of the box. But it seems like more are leaving the factory that shouldn't be, than in the past.

Glock supposedly fixed the G22's problems with the Gen4, but at the same time, they screwed up their most reliable line, the 9mm.

Seems to me the current problem with Glock is predominantly one of design and not of quality control; and is one that is being rectified.

SWATcop556

02-14-11, 08:31

chuckman

02-14-11, 08:39

Some people are obviously not listening when I said that the bickering needs to stop. You can give both fact and opinion without the prick-ish attitude. Last warning before this one is over. Infractions will follow if the bullshit continues.

I am not sure that any of us are going to convince any others that our opinions or positions are 'the way it is'. Having said that, please, gentlemen, keep it on topic regarding if I should keep the Glock 23 or trade it for the SIG P6. When these threads stay aboveboard and helpful, hundreds of years of experience and wisdom come out, and we all learn. When these threads denegrate, nobody wins.

SWATcop556

02-14-11, 09:20

Agreed. My take on your choices would be to go with the G17 over the Sig. The G17 is a proven weapon with a fairly flawless track record in the Gen3 models. I'm not a Sig fan and their QC has been lacking as of late. Regardless of Internet rumor everyone can put out a lemon but some are more consistent on putting out quality weapons and some are more consistent with dropping turds. Sig lately has fallen into the later category.

You really can't go wrong with the Gen3 9mm Glocks.

rauchman

02-14-11, 09:26

I have an opportunity to get a Glock 17 or a SIG P6. I am on the fence. I had a Glock 19 that I got rid of...just not the best gun for me. I have a SIG 226 that I shoot pretty well. So now I have this opportunity for get one of the aforementioned pistols. Which way should I go?

Of these two pistol, I'd go G17. I own, and am a big fan of, the German P226 that I have, as well as the Gen2 G17 that I have. At one point, I'd purchased a Sig P225 (the American equivalent of the P6). This pistol was touted as "pulling Excaliber from a stone" from many members on the Sig Forum. It felt nice in the hand, but I couldn't shoot it to nearly the same level as my P226. Also, I had brass shoot directly in my face and, dare I say it, I had a few FTE's, unlike my P226. I believe the P6 (P225) uses the same slide as the P228.

If it were I, and I didn't want a Glock, but wanted to go Sig, I'd go P228/P229. Having said that, of the 2 pistols you're choosing from, my experience finds me liking the G17. W/ aftermarket sights, the G17 shoots just as well as the P226.

Bulldog7972

02-14-11, 12:17

Chuckman- For what it's worth I own six Sigs. Some old, some new. Never had any kind of malfunction wih any of them. Not one single malfunction and I shoot alot. If you are going to choose a pistol for ccw here, then IMHO any weapon mentioned in this thread will do fine. It's not like you are going to be dragging it through the sands of Iraq or the mud of Afganistan. Buy one, shoot the heck out of it to make sure it feeds properly with the ammo you choose and you should be GTG.

Fail-Safe

02-14-11, 17:55

As someone who owned at one point 30 SIGs, both German and American, I'm sad to say I own 2 now. Both are German P226s in 9mm. The ONLY reason I still own those is because one was my first pistol, the other is a Dallas PD issue that never got issued. If neither had any sentimental value, I'd have nothing but M&Ps.

variablebinary

02-15-11, 16:46

There are a few new production German SIG pistols out there now that were brought in during the Obama madness. If you looking for a Sig there is no reason to settle for a substandard American replica of a German SIG

desert

02-15-11, 16:56

The milled stainless slide models are more durable.

Thank you

DanjojoUSMC

02-15-11, 21:10

KhanRad

02-15-11, 21:43

To the OP:

I would go with the Glock for a few reasons.

1) The P6 is a discontinued pistol. The frame, slide, and breechblock cannot be replaced, and the pistol will have no factory warranty. Occasionally you'll fine a breechblock at a gun show, or you can find a parts gun.

2) The P6 is a carbon slide, so it will rust easily. Old Sigs are fantastic pistols in terms of quality, durability, and performance, but they take a little more TLC over a more modern pistol.

3) The Glock has a smaller profile, it uses a double column magazine which has higher capacity and is easier to feed under stress, and it has far more market support than the P6.

I really like older West German Sigs. They are well made, function well, and are very accurate. I still carry a early 90s P228 most of the time, and like it more than many other modern designs out there. I'm an accomplished armorer, and take good care of my W. German Sigs. However, they are not for everybody and are almost to the point of entering the collector's market. If you want something that you can use and abuse without losing any sleep, go with a modern design that requires less TLC and can be fixed like new with a trip back to the factory if something breaks.

S-1

02-15-11, 22:09

Here's a picture of my "substandard American replica" P226R 9mm work gun. I've had three P226 9mm's... A German P226, US non-rail and this "R" model. I upgraded as better parts or models became available. I sold the German 226 when the stainless slides came out, and then I needed a rail so I traded for the P226R. This one is by far my favorite and one that I will not part with. I continue to be impressed with it.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2820/dscf4098m.jpg

It has around 20k rounds through it, probably more, but I don't keep a log so I don't know the exact number. I have had zero parts break and I can not remember ever having a malfunction that was not induced by me. I have changed all of the springs in it 3 times and upgraded all of my mag springs to wolf. Despite being drawn out of various Safariland duty holsters thousands of times, the Nitron finish is holding up pretty well, especially compared to my German 226. The trigger is very smooth and is always complimented by people who shoot it. It gets cleaned/relubed with TW25B or Tetra Grease after every time I shoot it, and gets a detail strip/lube a couple of times a year. Here are some more detailed pics...
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8348/dscf4061c.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/811/dscf4056i.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6015/dscf4053g.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1633/dscf4058c.jpg

ETA.... My German P228R that I bought in October to replace my troubled G19 ccw, has around 1k trouble free rounds through it. The trigger is gritty and heavy, and the finish isn't as nice as my US models. Even though it only has 1k rounds through it, it's showing wear signs on the slide rails that I haven't seen on my others. The wear marks are usually smooth when touched, but on this German P228, the wear marks feel rough/gritty. A little strange. Needless to say, when I get the P239, the 228 will be retired to the safe next to my 225. No more roll pins, thank you!

Here's some pics of the P228R....

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/6562/dscf4097z.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7305/dscf4080.jpg
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/2193/dscf4088b.jpg

kjdoski

02-15-11, 22:17

It sounds like you favor the Sig ergonomics and accuracy over the Glock's size efficiency. Unfortunately, you're comparing apples to oranges in your choices - a full size, high capacity "duty" pistol versus a compact, single stack "concealment" pistol.

Not too many years ago, my agency's policy on personal weapons was Sig only, 9mm only. During that time, I tried, and ditched, the P225, P228, and P239. The P228 didn't offer enough improvement in concealment (especially because of weight) over my P226 to make it worth the effort - likewise the P225, with the added detriment of offering half the capacity of the P226. The P239 never fit my hand well, and the controls were such that I constantly inadvertently activated the slide catch lever, unless I made dramatic and uncomfortable changes to my grip.

In 2006, we broadened our POW list to include a variety of other options, including Glock. I immediately equipped myself with a G19, and couldn't be happier. No, it's not the machining artwork of my pre-2004 P226, and it loses something to the P226 at the 25 yard line and beyond. But, it was significantly smaller, dramatically lighter, and, honestly, easier to shoot well AT SPEED with its short reset. Not to mention that living in high humidity/heat climates, the Glock's finish is hands down better than anything Sig has ever marketed.

May I ask why you didn't care for the G19? If it was grip size/angle, that can be remedied by going with the Gen4, a Grip Force Adapter, or a grip reduction (or a combination of all of the above). If it was just "feel," there's nothing that's going to make a $400 polymer pistol feel like a $800 steel gun, and you're best going with the Sig.

Hopefully some of what has been posted has been helpful!

Regards,

Kevin

Sigmax

02-15-11, 22:18

Here's a picture of my "substandard American replica" P226R 9mm work gun. I've had three P226 9mm's... A German P226, US non-rail and this "R" model. I upgraded as better parts or models became available. I sold the German 226 when the stainless slides came out, and then I needed a rail so I traded for the P226R. This one is by far my favorite and one that I will not part with. I continue to be impressed with it.

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2820/dscf4098m.jpg

It has around 20k rounds through it, probably more, but I don't keep a log so I don't know the exact number. I have had zero parts break and I can not remember ever having a malfunction that was not induced by me. I have changed all of the springs in it 3 times and upgraded all of my mag springs to wolf. Despite being drawn out of various Safariland duty holsters thousands of times, the Nitron finish is holding up pretty well, especially compared to my German 226. The trigger is very smooth and is always complimented by people who shoot it. It gets cleaned/relubed with TW25B or Tetra Grease after every time I shoot it, and gets a detail strip/lube a couple of times a year. Here are some more detailed pics...
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/8348/dscf4061c.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/811/dscf4056i.jpg
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6015/dscf4053g.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1633/dscf4058c.jpg

Just curious, and I really am not trying to get in the middle of this, but was this a LE SIG 226 or a personally owned one?

S-1

02-15-11, 22:51

Just curious, and I really am not trying to get in the middle of this, but was this a LE SIG 226 or a personally owned one?

Personally owned duty weapon.

Fail-Safe

02-16-11, 13:02

You had about $20,000 worth of SIGs until M&P's came along?:ph34r:

I didnt say that. I just said if I didnt have a connection with those two SIGs, I would have all M&Ps.

A lot of things lead me away from SIG, some of the personal, some SIG. I found I was better with 1911s, revolvers, etc than I was with SIG, even after years of using the DA/SA trigger. I absolutely hate the DAK trigger. I noticed QC issues with my American SIGs, and SIGs CS wasnt willing and helpful as they had been in the past.

ETA: it also wasnt $20K worth of SIGs. I got some amazing deals!