View Full Version : Why so many similar weight Barnes TSX .224" bullets?
Looking at the line of TSX bullets I see there is 45gr, 50gr, 53gr, 55gr, 62gr, and 70gr. I like having choices, but I'm trying to understand how these could be different enough to need so many, particularly 50, 53, and 55gr. I know that the longer and heavier bullets have improved BC but it is very close between the 50, 53, and 55gr bullets.
Since TSX's expand to roughly double their diameter consistently, and according to Barnes these bullets all expand to about 1800fps, the only difference I can think if in terms of terminal performance would be penetration. Naturally I would expect the heavier bullets to penetrate farther if velocity was the same, but can anyone tell me how much penetration each of these bullets typically yields at normal AR velocities and ranges? (by "normal" I mean from a 16" barrel and under 100yards)
I suppose they are trying to cover all the different twist rates found in .224 diameter. I'd go with a 55 gr. as I use both 1/9 and 1/7 twist barrels.
I looked at the 70 grain Barnes TSX last time I was in town, and the box had a recommendation of 1/8 twist. I presume it is a longer bullet than a typical 69 or 70 grain bullet that would generally be acceptable for 1/9 twist barrels. I guess I'll have to shoot 'em to find out if they'll work.
The 62gr TSX is about the same length as the 68gr Hornady OTM. The 70 is longer. The 62gr will work in a 1:9 but the 70gr will not.
I had the thought that twist might have something to do with it but the 55gr and down supposedly work in 1:12 so I can't think having 3 bullets of the same design in a 5 grain window (50-55) is about twist. I understand the 45, 55, 62, 70gr weights based on the different cartridges that will shoot .224" bullets and the various twists. 45gr for FN's 5.7, 55gr for 1:12 twist or faster, 62gr for 1:9 twist or faster, and 70gr for 1:8 or faster twist. It's the 50 and 53 that have me wondering.
I'm interested for a couple reasons. From a defensive and/or LE standpoint I suspect the 62gr and 70gr bullets overpenetrate. One of the things I'm trying to do at my department is get some barrier ammo approved but because we have some old M16A1's on the street that limits alot of what we can use and the powers that be want ammo to work with all guns. Cor-Bon loads the 53gr while others seem to load the 55gr. Both will work in 1:12 twist guns like the M16A1's and seem so close as to be essentially the same. I'd just like to confirm with someone who has done the testing.
maybe the ammo com like Federal,Corbon,Black Hills,etc
Ask Barnes for there own bullet
I see BH has a 5.56mm 50gr loading thats suppose to open to 50cal
I would use the 55gr for anything under 300Y and the 70gr for over 300
Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. I got a box of 70grainers mostl because they had load data for H335 for 5.56 Nato and my AR has a 1/7 twist and can handle the heavier bullets.
The worst thing about these bullets is the limited number of load data released by Barnes.
I'm really happy with them. Killed a couple deer with them. 2 shots, 4 holes, and both dead right there.
Frankly, I like choice, and I agree that the 62 grainers would probaly have had similar results.
I am unsure why, but for many decades, several bullet makers have made .224" bullets in 50, 52/53 and 55 grain offerings. In the Hornaday Manual, three different bullets are listed at 50 grains, four at 52/53 grains and five at 55 grains
I ordered a box of 50gr, a box of 53gr, and a box of 55gr TSX's so I'll load some up and see just how different they are. I'll also try to come up with some consistent media to test penetration since I don't have access to ballistic gel currently. In fact, if anyone has a suggestion about media let me know. I'm just looking to compare the TSX's to each other, not the 12"-18" FBI standard, so I just need something consistent.
ICANHITHIMMAN
02-22-11, 19:37
I think you will find that Barnes bullets will expand at 1200fps consistintaly on soft skin game and I always say the more weight the better 70g
Water.
I suppose you can't get much cheaper or simpler than that.
Have you noticed any substantial differences in penetration on gel with the similar weight (50,53,55gr) TSX's?
The 53 and 55 gr TSX's are similar in terminal performance; interestingly, although while somewhat counterintuitive, since the 55 gr is shorter, it tends to stabilize better in 1/12 twists.
While we have not yet fully tested the 50 gr TSX; initial data shows that the BH 5.56 mm loading appears to offer OUTSTANDING terminal performance for LE use, including out of SBR's and through intermediate barriers.
So is the terminal performance of the 50gr bullet actually better than the 53 and 55? That would be interesting.
Someone suggested that the 50gr was specifically designed for LE to offer the standard Barnes terminal performance but with less penetration. Has that been the case or is penetration similar between these bullets?
Thanks for the info Doc.
While we have not yet fully tested the 50 gr TSX; initial data shows that the BH 5.56 mm loading appears to offer OUTSTANDING terminal performance for LE use, including out of SBR's and through intermediate barriers.
Doc, any links to a source/data on the 5.56 load? I didn't see anything on BH's website re: a 5.56 loading.
http://blackhillsammo.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/black-hills-5-56mm-now-available-commercially/
Hopefully we will get some data up shortly. This is one of the best 5.56 mm loads currently available, as reflected in the revised recommendations here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881
http://blackhillsammo.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/black-hills-5-56mm-now-available-commercially/
Hopefully we will get some data up shortly. This is one of the best 5.56 mm loads currently available, as reflected in the revised recommendations here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881
I realize that this is a brand new load, but does anyone know where we can find the 50 grain TSX load? I have seen the 77 grain SMK, but not the 50 TSX. Any help would be appreciated.
Have you called Black Hills (800-568-6625 ) and asked?
I have recently been informed that www.firststopgun.com (605-341-5211), a store in Rapid City has the new BH 5.56 mm 50gr TSX in stock.
Aha! A specially designed version of the TSX, I assume to better deal with the petals shearing off through auto glass. I wonder why they didn't use one of the existing bullet designs as a base but came up with a new weight; maybe the reduction in weight is intrinsically linked to the new design though.
Have you called Black Hills (800-568-6625 ) and asked?
I have recently been informed that www.firststopgun.com (605-341-5211), a store in Rapid City has the new BH 5.56 mm 50gr TSX in stock.
I have not. In this day in age I guess I get sucked in to the internet, and if Google can't find it it must not exist right?:D I don't particularly need any at the moment, since I have a decent supply of Fed 55 (my duty load) and 62 grain bonded and Speer GD 64 on hand. I just like keeping up with current technology and always want an ample supply of duty ammo in case stocks dry up for a while like they have in the past (since I have to scrounge for it myself, non dept. issued).
Thanks for the help Doc.
Here is a photo of the TSX's with a 55gr FMJ and a 75gr OTM for comparison:
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww103/aplorton/TSX_Bullets.jpg
55gr FMJ - 50gr TSX - 53gr TSX - 55gr TSX - 62gr TSX - 75gr OTM
L..0.739.......0.735........0.795........0.797.........0.941........0.987
BC..UNK.......0.197........0.204........0.209.........0.287........0.395
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