California Bullet Regulation

[Joseywales]

California is trying to legislate bullet ID tagging and lead ammunition bans. So here is a poll............


How many of you favor not supplying any California law enforcement with ammunition until these laws are squashed in the legislature?

[Kurt Reifert]

At first blush it sounds like a good idea, but I'm really not in favor of putting law enforcement at risk for the stupidity of the legislature.

If the good people of California decide they have had enough they make may a special delivery of ammunition to the state capitol. (not that I would ever encourage or support that kind of thing)

[toddackerman]

Not to get too far off this topic but...

I fear this could be just the start of something bigger.

Several times I have stated that folks don't need to be adding a "Zillion" mags to their stock pile...they need to be adding Ammo and reloading components.

You can't do anything with an empty mag, and ammo is just one other thing that "Could Be" legislated in 2008...IF the politcal party control changes hands which it very well could.

You need good quality mags and SHTF ammo, but what ammo will you use for training??? I believe stocking reloading components is pretty important right now.

Imagine military caliber (including he commercial designator like .223 Remington) ammo being outlawed to civilians!?

Tack

[Submariner]

At first blush it sounds like a good idea, but I'm really not in favor of putting law enforcement at risk for the stupidity of the legislature.

If the good people of California decide they have had enough they make may a special delivery of ammunition to the state capitol. (not that I would ever encourage or support that kind of thing)

Yet if you persist in supplying LEO's in CA, then won't you be putting at risk "the good people of California" when they make "a special delivery of ammunition to the state capitol" and the LEO's have to defend the .gov?

You can't have it both ways.:rolleyes:

ETA: Doesn't Barrett refuse to sell (or even work on) his .50 cal. rifles to CA agencies?

[TUNNEL RAT 33]

i beleive that LAPD did a video on the evils of the Barrett 50 cal rifle that helped get it banned in Cali . when it was time for it to get serviced Barrett did the work and sent the gun back to them in individual peices . he also refuses to sell any of his guns to any Cali LEA .

[MEANGREEN]

Hopefully the "Governator" will do the right thing and veto the microstamping bill...

It just seems like it isn't getting any better. I remember they tried to pass a
$0.15 per bullet ammo tax in CA not to long ago.

[tinman44]

i'm against any legistlation that infringes on our rights. just for everyones information can we get some examples of why this is a bad idea and why we dont want this happening?

[toddackerman]

i'm against any legistlation that infringes on our rights. just for everyones information can we get some examples of why this is a bad idea and why we dont want this happening?

How about the Nazi's in WWII to begin with?

Tack

[LOKNLOD]

i'm against any legistlation that infringes on our rights. just for everyones information can we get some examples of why this is a bad idea and why we dont want this happening?

Well, first off, I believe the bill requires all semi automatic handguns to microstamp the ejected casings with some sort of ID mark in 1 or 2 places? I haven't read the bill personally. Assuming that is the case...

Since the gun has to do the stamping, all guns sold in Kali will have to be capable. This either means that gun makers

1. develop and market California-specific models (hardship on the gun companies is a minor victory for the Antis)
2. stop selling their guns in CA (a big win for the Antis there), or
3. incorporate the technology into all their guns (a huge win for Antis everywhere).

In the last case, once the technology is on most guns anyway, it's a very easy, logical step to make it a federal requirement.

And here's where it gets really interesting -- being able to trace a casing to a weapon doesn't mean much if you can't link a specific weapon to a specific person, right? "Oh I sold that a year ago" or "oh that was stolen last month" or "I lost it in a terrible boating accident" ;) In order for the microstamping have maximum effectiveness, you need to have full licensing and registration. No private transactions, either, as everything needs to be transferred to make sure ownership is logged properly.

Another problem would be a huge blow to reloaders. How could you re-use microstamped casings?

You better pick up all your brass when shooting too, because a handful of mixed brass from the range could, at best, muddle an investigation, and at worst, wrongfully implicate an innocent person (or let a murderer walk free).

And this is all just scratching the surface...

[tinman44]

thanks for that insight josh, and for tack i was asking a question to understand. also i dont think the nazi's microstamped casings

[QuietShootr]

I'm really not in favor of putting the citizenry at risk for the stupidity of the legislature.)


Fixed that for you.

[Bob Reed]

Hello,

I totally agree with what Mr. Barrett is doing by NOT selling his weapons to ANY California Government Agencies.

It's just too bad that all the other gun & ammo makers still sell anything to them.

If I were a gun or ammo maker California would NOT get Any of my goods, untill, every single gun law on their books was Repealed & The Peoples Rights were Restored.

Take Care.

[toddackerman]

thanks for that insight josh, and for tack i was asking a question to understand. also i dont think the nazi's microstamped casings

Tinman,

Nope they didn't, but it is one example of what happens when a society is limited, regulated, or prohibited in any way to have access to defend themselves.

That was my point.

Tack

[newarowner]

I really doubt the passing of this law in California had anything to do with the desire of those in the govt there to help reduce crime. Tagged brass, and the firearms that would have to be made to produce it are really just a hassle for honest, law abiding citizens who own firearms for legal purposes...and I suspect that those lawmakers who enacted this law know that. Any way you cut it, we (the honest citizens) lose out. 1st thing that comes to my mind is a criminal gathering up spent brass at ranges (from other people's guns) and planting them at crime scenes. Maybe I'm giving criminals' too much credit, but this likelihood would make such evidence no more useful to police and courts than the tools law enforcement already has today. Just more roadblocks to make life harder for honest folks trying to enjoy their 2nd ammendment rights. Way to go California...you deserve the govt you elect. Hopefully the rest of the country doesn't go nuts too.

[The_Biased_Observer]

How many of you favor not supplying any California law enforcement with ammunition until these laws are squashed in the legislature?

LE should not have weapons that are not available to the populace. And they should pay what the populace pays for ammunition.:D

[markm]

Hopefully the big one will hit Cali soon and shake the earth of it's weakest parasites!

[Business_Casual]

Hopefully the big one will hit Cali soon and shake the earth of it's weakest parasites!

There are 45+ million people in Cali, I don't think they should all be punished with a catastrophe because some idiot politicians do stupid things.

M_P

[markm]

That's a price I'm willing to pay! :p

[pearson]

In the last case, once the technology is on most guns anyway, it's a very easy, logical step to make it a federal requirement.




this is the way it has been the whole time look at cars and emissions it all started in California

[knguye11]

One question I have is this bill should help law enforcement agencies right. If you're a LEO, what do thing of this bill for you personally?

I am not a LEO, but I think this would help to make my job easier. Citizens of CA just have to pick a different hobby or get baseball bat to defense themselves instead :rolleyes: .

[roadstar]

I would like to see the entire firearms industry band together and refuse to sell anything to governmental entities in California.

I would not want them to stop selling to private citizens.

Now, I realize that this is probably impossible to do. I'm just saying that if it could be done that is what I would like to see.

[gkanga]

I would like to see the entire firearms industry band together and refuse to sell anything to governmental entities in California.

I would not want them to stop selling to private citizens.

Now, I realize that this is probably impossible to do. I'm just saying that if it could be done that is what I would like to see.

Add Maryland to the list, too, and probably a couple other states.

[Trim2L]

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

[E53001]

One question I have is this bill should help law enforcement agencies right. If you're a LEO, what do thing of this bill for you personally?

I am not a LEO, but I think this would help to make my job easier. Citizens of CA just have to pick a different hobby or get baseball bat to defense themselves instead :rolleyes: .

this last little bit of your post caught my eye becuase we as americans have built this country with and around guns, not to have them taken away, our rights as citizens are getting decreased every year with "politics".... i like the old cave man idea.. you dont like what you hear, hit em over the head with your club.. :D

[Bpunk360]

Hopefully the "Governator" will do the right thing and veto the microstamping bill...

It just seems like it isn't getting any better. I remember they tried to pass a
$0.15 per bullet ammo tax in CA not to long ago.

i highly doubt it.. make no mistake Aronold is a pussy.. he is a republican but he is married to a Kennedy (DEMOCRAT) and he does whatever she tells him to do.... she is the gov. not him......

[User Name]

God I hate California.

[Trim2L]

Anyone want to buy some preban bullets and brass? :D

[Charles Daly]

Speaking from my side of the aisle (manufacturer/importer) I'm in favor of cutting off all sales to California, LE and commercial.

This is the 3rd time CA has tried to legislate handgun sales out of existence.

First was the "certification" law that required any handgun (except S/A revolvers) sold in the state to be certified by approved (certified) laboratories. The antis thought that all the "ring of fire" gun companies (and others) would not be able to pass the certification tests and sales would be stopped in CA. THis didn't happen of course. Hundreds of models passed the tests, at considerable expense to the manufacturer/importer, and sales continued of these models in the state. (When I say "considerable expense" I mean approximately $5,000 for each model. A small company like ours spent over $50,000 to get our 1911's certified. Who do you think ends up paying for that?)

Second, when so many of us paid for the tests, and passed, they amended the law to allow for "random" sampling of guns on the approved list, requiring re-certification, to make sure that we manufacturers were not selling different models than those that were previously approved. Every time that happens, another $5,000 down the drain.

Oh, and I forgot to mention above, that it costs $200 per model per year to stay on the approved list once certified.

Now comes part 3, micro-stamping. The only one this stupid law benefits is the owner of the software. The premise is simple to defeat (change firing pin; buy an after-market barrel; even put a tiny scrape in the chamber).

Charles Daly will never be able to afford compliance with this absurdity. So after 2011 (I think that is the effective date) no more new Charles Daly handguns will be sold in CA. There are many companies the same size or smaller than us that will never be able to afford it either. Only the big boys (why does Ruger come to mind?) will/can afford to comply.

The only way to reverse this trend is to stop all sales of all firearms to CA. The industry must band together and take a stand. Perhaps only then will the citizens and LE come to their senses and revoke this law.

Unfortunately, I am not optimistic that this will ever happen. CA represents anywhere from 10 to 15% of all handguns sales in the US for most companies. Talk about a Catch-22! Some of us can't afford to comply and some of us can't afford not to comply, if the bottom line is all that matters.

Barrett took the first step to stem this tide when the .50 was banned. STI took the second step when micro-stamping was passed by saying they will not sell there. (We all know the size of STI. Not to take anything away from Dave Skinner but it was symbolic at best and meaningless in the scheme of things.)

What are the chances that the majors will go along? Fat chance!