View Full Version : Do you know how much the national debt has gone up?
$14.3 trillion total national debt
Gov’t Has Borrowed an Additional $29,660 Per Household Since Obama Signed Stimulus
(CNSNews.com) - The federal government has borrowed an additional $29,660 per household in the United States since President Barack Obama signed his economic stimulus law two years ago.
That brings the total national debt to $125,475.18 per household.
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http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/gov-t-has-borrowed-2966055-household-oba
Littlelebowski
02-18-11, 11:56
You need a blog.
I think that is the 2nd time you said that. I am flattered. :D
You need a blog.
lolol (since 'lol' is too short)
I don't see a problem.. I mean our Dear Leader needed and still needs spending money to take care of us, I for one will be sending most of my paycheck to the Dear Leader, and I emplore you all to do the same, so that He and his chosen ones can decide how that money ought to be spent.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/14/debt-now-equals-total-us-economy/
Mr. Obama‘s budget projects that 2011 will see the biggest one-year debt jump in history, or nearly $2 trillion, to reach $15.476 trillion by Sept. 30, the end of the fiscal year. That would be 102.6 percent of GDP
I for one will be sending most of my paycheck to the Dear Leader, and I emplore you all to do the same, so that He and his chosen ones can decide how that money ought to be spent.
Funny you should say that. http://www.atr.org/obamas-fy-budgetbr-taxes-more-a5844 And here's some of the highlights.
•Raising the top marginal income tax rate (at which a majority of small business profits face taxation) from 35% to 39.6%. This is a $709 billion/10 year tax hike
•Raising the capital gains and dividends rate from 15% to 20%
•Raising the death tax rate from 35% to 45% and lowering the death tax exemption amount from $5 million ($10 million for couples) to $3.5 million. This is a $98 billion/ten year tax hike
•Capping the value of itemized deductions at the 28% bracket rate. This will effectively cut tax deductions for mortgage interest, charitable contributions, property taxes, state and local income or sales taxes, out-of-pocket medical expenses, and unreimbursed employee business expenses. A new means-tested phaseout of itemized deductions limits them even more. This is a $321 billion/ten year tax hike
•New bank taxes totaling $33 billion over ten years
•New international corporate tax hikes totaling $129 billion over ten years
•New life insurance company taxes totaling $14 billion over ten years
•Massive new taxes on energy, including LIFO repeal, Superfund, domestic energy manufacturing, and many others totaling $120 billion over ten years
•Increasing unemployment payroll taxes by $15 billion over ten years
•Taxing management capital gains in an investment partnership (“carried interest”) as ordinary income. This is a tax hike of $15 billion over ten years
•A giveaway to the trial lawyers—not letting companies deduct the cost of punitive damages from a lawsuit settlement. This is a tax hike of $300 million over ten years
•Increasing tax penalties, information reporting, and IRS information sharing. This is a ten-year tax hike of $20 billion.
Add it all together, and this budget is a ten-year, $1.5 trillion tax hike over present law. That’s $1.5 trillion taken out of the economy and spent on government instead of being used to create jobs.
http://www.atr.org/obamas-fy-budgetbr-taxes-more-a5844 And here's some of the highlights.
Quote:
•Raising the top marginal income tax rate (at which a majority of small business profits face taxation) from 35% to 39.6%. This is a $709 billion/10 year tax hike
•Raising the capital gains and dividends rate from 15% to 20%
•Raising the death tax rate from 35% to 45% and lowering the death tax exemption amount from $5 million ($10 million for couples) to $3.5 million. This is a $98 billion/ten year tax hike
•Capping the value of itemized deductions at the 28% bracket rate. This will effectively cut tax deductions for mortgage interest, charitable contributions, property taxes, state and local income or sales taxes, out-of-pocket medical expenses, and unreimbursed employee business expenses. A new means-tested phaseout of itemized deductions limits them even more. This is a $321 billion/ten year tax hike
•New bank taxes totaling $33 billion over ten years
•New international corporate tax hikes totaling $129 billion over ten years
•New life insurance company taxes totaling $14 billion over ten years
•Massive new taxes on energy, including LIFO repeal, Superfund, domestic energy manufacturing, and many others totaling $120 billion over ten years
•Increasing unemployment payroll taxes by $15 billion over ten years
•Taxing management capital gains in an investment partnership (“carried interest”) as ordinary income. This is a tax hike of $15 billion over ten years
•A giveaway to the trial lawyers—not letting companies deduct the cost of punitive damages from a lawsuit settlement. This is a tax hike of $300 million over ten years
•Increasing tax penalties, information reporting, and IRS information sharing. This is a ten-year tax hike of $20 billion.
Add it all together, and this budget is a ten-year, $1.5 trillion tax hike over present law. That’s $1.5 trillion taken out of the economy and spent on government instead of being used to create jobs.
This makes my head hurt. How did we get in this predicament and how do we get out of it?
This makes my head hurt. How did we get in this predicament and how do we get out of it?
You can't and the debt is near $50+ trillion when you add obligations etc etc.
You can't and the debt is near $50+ trillion when you add obligations etc etc.
What he said.
You can't and the debt is near $50+ trillion when you add obligations etc etc.
Numbers I remember reading are much higher -- 75-80$ trillion
According to this quick google hit to WND (yeah I know) it was $65 trillion in 2009
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=88851
Numbers I remember reading are much higher -- 75-80$ trillion
According to this quick google hit to WND (yeah I know) it was $65 trillion in 2009
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=88851
I guess it could be in the 100's, just too many numbers to know the real number. We know it's huge! lol.
I guess it could be in the 100's, just too many numbers to know the real number. We know it's huge! lol.
Looking at this
http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/Plan/Charts.htm
it appears, if I am reading it right, that just medicare/medicaid and SS are well over $70 Trillion now and in 2014 will be over $100 Trillion (over 75 years). It probably only gets worse from there. Numbers that no one can understand.
The functional difference between $50 trillion vs. $100 trillion is rather like the difference between getting hit directly by a bus vs. a loaded dump truck. One may be technically worse on paper, but you're absolutely ****ed either way.
The functional difference between $50 trillion vs. $100 trillion is rather like the difference between getting hit directly by a bus vs. a loaded dump truck. One may be technically worse on paper, but you're absolutely ****ed either way.
That sums it up rather nicely!:suicide:
The functional difference between $50 trillion vs. $100 trillion is rather like the difference between getting hit directly by a bus vs. a loaded dump truck. One may be technically worse on paper, but you're absolutely ****ed either way.
On top of that, it's pretty much a race to the bottom currency wise :suicide:
Does the national debt really matter?
How much can you owe yourself?
Your life hasn't changed a bit since Obongo ran the national debt through the ceiling?
Does the national debt really matter?
Nope. What's the worst that could happen?
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-18-11, 22:15
The funny thing is, the $29K figure just shows how ineffecient the government is. Who here has gotten $29k worth out of the stimulus? I we would have just cut checks to people instead of running it thru the govt, we could have eliminated poverty for 2 years.
Does the national debt really matter?
Yes
How much can you owe yourself?
it is not owed to "yourself." It is owed to lots of other people. Other countries, to future SS recipients, to state and local governments, etc. All people who will eventually want to get repaid.
Your life hasn't changed a bit since Obongo ran the national debt through the ceiling?
But it will eventually come crashing down and then your life WILL change. Cause and effect is not always instantaneous.
The functional difference between $50 trillion vs. $100 trillion is rather like the difference between getting hit directly by a bus vs. a loaded dump truck. One may be technically worse on paper, but you're absolutely ****ed either way.
No argument here. The reason why it somewhat matters though is so that you can document the change in it so that you can see if anything is happening to restrain it or it is only getting worse.
Plus it help people to start to understand things better (or to come to the realization we are screwed) the bigger the number is :eek:
But it will eventually come crashing down and then your life WILL change. Cause and effect is not always instantaneous.
Not true, with proper investments you can protect yourself, in the event that shit crashes. Now if you're wrong about future events your invested monies can become worth nothing.
Some things are treasury inflation protected securities (know as tips) or commodities, but carry a risk, commodities carries a huge risk, and right now we have a bubble happening such as with REM's.
When the crash happens, I would not expect paper investments to be honored. A deed for land, yes. Unless we have a commie revolution. But any kind of treasury paper? Forget it.
Personally I think we should do the following in a 90 day window, but obviously it cannot be done with the current squatter in the oval office:
(a) pass a balanced budget amendment,
(b) renege on the debt,
(c) cancel the current USD and issue the "New U.S. Dollar",
(d) spend no more than the government takes in from then on since we will not be able to borrow.
It is too late for an innoculation. Either we have a minor case of the plague or a major case. Select one.
Gutshot John
02-19-11, 09:03
(b) renege on the debt,
Really? Some of your ideas were good, others were bad, this is dangerous.
Do you know how many millions of Americans own US Treasury bonds? Most American debt is held by American citizens, investors and private corporations.
Do you understand the profound negative consequences of such an action relevant to our current situation? Government needs to able to borrow, just like you need to be able to borrow...unless you paid cash for your house, your car and many other things you need to function in our society.
Do you just decide to not pay your debts when it suits you? Let us know how that works out for you. See above.
If you answered "no" to any of the above, than your above solution becomes wholly unrealistic.
How about we keep our solutions within the realms of reality and honor the debts we have taken on. The American people elected people that took on these debts in our name. These debts might be a problem, but the American people are still responsible for these decisions.
I'm afraid there isn't an easy way out but I'd prefer not to become a banana republic.
montanadave
02-19-11, 09:19
When the crash happens, I would not expect paper investments to be honored. A deed for land, yes. Unless we have a commie revolution. But any kind of treasury paper? Forget it.
Why the **** should I honor your land deed (or car title, etc., etc., etc.) which, incidentally, you acquired through trading those same pieces of treasury paper yesterday, when you decide to tell me to burn my treasury paper today?
Sorry, you default on the debt and reissue script and it's "game over," everybody goes back to square one, "forty acres and a mule" time. Of course, given our current population, it ain't gonna be 40 acres anymore (probably just under eight) and we'd be up to our ass in mule shit.
Not gonna happen.
When the crash happens, I would not expect paper investments to be honored. A deed for land, yes. Unless we have a commie revolution. But any kind of treasury paper? Forget it.
:confused:
You seriously see this apocalyptic future with hyper inflation but believe a deed of land will have legitimacy during this time?
Do you know how many millions of Americans own US Treasury bonds? Most American debt is held by American citizens, investors and private corporations.
Shhh! Don't go telling people that China doesn't own 99.9% of our debt, if we did this we wouldn't have the panic we do and a common enemy.
Heartland Hawk
02-20-11, 11:13
The functional difference between $50 trillion vs. $100 trillion is rather like the difference between getting hit directly by a bus vs. a loaded dump truck. One may be technically worse on paper, but you're absolutely ****ed either way.
THIS.
variablebinary
02-20-11, 12:23
Does the national debt really matter?
How much can you owe yourself?
Your life hasn't changed a bit since Obongo ran the national debt through the ceiling?
Yes.
The USA doesn't owe itself. It owes debt holders all over the USA and the globe. If you don't pay your debts, you won't be able to borrow, so you'll need to print currency that will eventually become worthless
There is only one way to pay back $14 trillion without resetting the currency, and that is to hyper inflate the currency which will obliterate the value of all your savings. To hedge against inflation those with means will want to dump their dollars to protect their wealth. Generally they will turn to commodities, which will spike up the value of things like food, raw materials, and oil. So not only will your shitty currency be worth less, but everything will cost vastly more.
And this isn't tin foil shit, this is fact, and it is already happening. Stop posting here and read news papers. WSJ and see what is actually happening to your economy every day.
Why the **** should I honor your land deed (or car title, etc., etc., etc.) which, incidentally, you acquired through trading those same pieces of treasury paper yesterday, when you decide to tell me to burn my treasury paper today?
I think you are confusing the concepts of debt versus ownership. When you hold treasury paper, it means the government owes you something. When I hold a deed to land, it means I own the land.
So please tell me, how are going to not honor my land deed? Are you going to forge your own and pretend to be the owner of the property? Is the government going to "redistribute" land like they always do in commie revolutions? Are you going to come onto my land and park your Winnebago, pretending that you are the new owner?
In several of the threads on GD, I am seeing a lot of the 'normalcy bias', i.e., the implicit assumption that everything will be ok, debts will be paid, no one will get hurt, etc. The problem with the normalcy bias is that it blinds us to the cliff which may be right before our eyes.
That cliff business can take a guy by surprise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVhYjbIRYAs
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