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mac37
09-10-07, 10:21
Can I have more than one SBR upper for the same registered lower? Or am I limited to one upper at any given time? My registration lists several calibers, so can I have all three uppers at the same time? I did a search and found no clear answer. Any help is appreciated.

C4IGrant
09-10-07, 10:55
Can I have more than one SBR upper for the same registered lower? Or am I limited to one upper at any given time? My registration lists several calibers, so can I have all three uppers at the same time? I did a search and found no clear answer. Any help is appreciated.

Basically yes.


C4

Derek_Connor
09-10-07, 11:03
Can I have more than one SBR upper for the same registered lower? Or am I limited to one upper at any given time? My registration lists several calibers, so can I have all three uppers at the same time? I did a search and found no clear answer. Any help is appreciated.

I dont have the document in hand, but you can use multiple sbr uppers on a legally registered SBR lower. If your Form 4 as "multi" as the caliber, (lucky SOB) then you can use those calibers on your SBR.

I drafted a letter to the ATF and let them know I planned on using my SBRd lower in different configurations and mailed it in registered mail, but received no written confirmation from them about it though.....

nationwide
09-10-07, 11:22
You can have as many uppers as you want as long as you have that registered lower.

Best rule of thumb I've heard is just don't have any built lowers floating around your safe. Constructive intent and all :rolleyes:

gunny
09-10-07, 17:10
Yes, but as has been mentioned, don't get caught with additional unregistered lower(s) that do not have an attached 16"> upper though. If you only have one registered lower then you are ok with several short uppers other than the length you listed on your form 1 or 4 & different calibers if you so chose. If it's gonna be a permanent length change other than what you've listed the ATF asks that you send them a letter advising such so they can annotate this in the registry.

mac37
09-10-07, 17:21
Thanks for the quick replys.

welchtactical
09-10-07, 18:49
Is there a ATF form for listing multi-caliber, or barrel lengths? Or do you just send a well written letter advising them that you want to run several calibers and Bbl lengths?

SHIVAN
09-10-07, 21:33
Swapping an upper is not a permanent modification. Several of my Title II dealers have told me they have letters stating that non-permanent alterations to firearms like the AR or M16 do not need letters to the NFA branch "asking for permission".

There is nothing stating that you can't swap uppers in mutliple calibers. It's not like Rem 700 SBR where if you changed the barrel it could be viewed as a permanent alteration of its caliber.

gunny
09-11-07, 08:34
Swapping an upper is not a permanent modification. Several of my Title II dealers have told me they have letters stating that non-permanent alterations to firearms like the AR or M16 do not need letters to the NFA branch "asking for permission".

There is nothing stating that you can't swap uppers in mutliple calibers. It's not like Rem 700 SBR where if you changed the barrel it could be viewed as a permanent alteration of its caliber.

Not sure if this was in response to me, but I stated if it's going to be a permanent change in bbl length they ask that you inform them. Merely swapping uppers back & forth obviously doesn't fit this. I guess if you have several uppers & then you go to running one length that's different from what's listed on the form 1 or 4 the rest of the time you own the registered lower then this could prolly be construed as a permanent change. I've never known anyone to be challenged on that by a agent though, so owning mulitiple lengths to swap between isn't gonna be a prob.

SHIVAN
09-11-07, 09:47
Not sure if this was in response to me...

It was a general response, following the thread direction. :)

NoVA_SAR
09-12-07, 10:40
If I already have a registered lower, am I required each time I purchase a new SBR upper, pay a $200 tax?



Can I have more than one SBR upper for the same registered lower? Or am I limited to one upper at any given time? My registration lists several calibers, so can I have all three uppers at the same time? I did a search and found no clear answer. Any help is appreciated.

gunny
09-12-07, 10:44
Not for additional uppers on the same, already registered lower. You do have to pay $200 each time you register an additional lower or other NFA item, i.e., suppressor, etc.

Robb Jensen
09-12-07, 10:53
Not for additional uppers on the same, already registered lower. You do have to pay $200 each time you register an additional lower or other NFA item, i.e., suppressor, etc.

The tax is paid for each SBR (the lower is the SBR) you may have as many other uppers for it as you like.

NoVA_SAR
09-12-07, 10:59
If I already have a registered SBR lower, would I have to go through a dealer to obtain a new 10.5" upper or can I order it and have it shipped to my home? Thanks.



The tax is paid for each SBR (the lower is the SBR) you may have as many other uppers for it as you like.

SHIVAN
09-12-07, 11:07
If I already have a registered SBR lower, would I have to go through a dealer to obtain a new 10.5" upper or can I order it and have it shipped to my home? Thanks.

You can have it sent to your house.

CarlosDJackal
09-12-07, 14:36
Is there a ATF form for listing multi-caliber, or barrel lengths? Or do you just send a well written letter advising them that you want to run several calibers and Bbl lengths?

I just sent the ATF a letter about buying a 9mm upper for my SBR.

keatsabn
09-17-07, 08:52
Below is the letter that I sent to BATF. If you want pm me and I will send it by e-mail.
Luke

Wednesday, August 08, 2007

Reference: Additional Information on my ATF Form 1 (5320.1)

CERTIFIED MAIL

National Firearms Act Examiner
National Firearms Act Branch,
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
244 Needy Road
West Virginia 25405


Dear National Firearms Act Examiner,

Subject: Additional Information for ATF Form 1 (5320.1)


I have included this attachment sheet for the additional description of the firearm listed in 4h of ATF Form 1 (5320.1). I have listed 5.56 as the caliber because this is the most widely used caliber for this style of firearm. In the future, I plan on buying other upper receiver and barrels group for this weapon. They include the following calibers of upper receiver.

.22 Long Rifle
.204 Ruger
5.56 x 45 mm NATO
.223 Remington
.243 WSM
6.5 Grendael (.264 cal)
6.8 SPC (.270cal)
.300 Wisper
7.62 x 39mm
9mm Parabellum
.45 ACP
45 Bushmaster
.458 SOCOM
.50 AE
.50Beowulf
.50 BMG

I have listed barrel length 11.5” in 4e of ATF Form 1 because this is the length of barrel that I have on order for this receiver. I plan on buying barrels of different lengths that fall with in the National Firearms Act of 1934. They include the following lengths:

7.5”
8.5”
10.5”
11.5”
14.0”
14.5”

These are the possible barrel lengths of upper receivers that I may purchase. The additional over length is related to the various barrel length possibilities. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me either by phone or email at luke.v.keating@xxxxxxx.xxx xxx-xxx-xxxx cell or my home at xxx-xxx-xxxx.

Additional Description of Firearm Serial Number xxxxxx


Additional Markings
On right side of receiver on the Magazine well “SFC Luke V. Keating (Ret) Trust”
Midland, Ga

If this is with BATF guidelines and regulation could you sign and return this Letter of Amendment with my ATF Form 1 (5320.1) so that Local, State and Federal Law Enforcement Agencies are not confused about the SBR with Serial Number 27474.

By authority of the Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, this amendment has been examined and the applicant’s making and registration of the firearm described above is:


Approved (With the following conditions, if any) Disapproved (For the following reasons)


Authorized ATF Official Date:



Respectfully yours,
SFC Luke V. Keating (Ret)
US Army Retired

SHIVAN
09-17-07, 11:27
Are any of the changes listed in that letter considered permanent?

If not, I'm entirely confused by the recent influx of people wanting to get "permission" letters for non-permanent modifications.

:confused: :confused:

Derek_Connor
09-17-07, 12:04
Are any of the changes listed in that letter considered permanent?

If not, I'm entirely confused by the recent influx of people wanting to get "permission" letters for non-permanent modifications.

:confused: :confused:


Pure and simple...fear.

Same reason why some people photo copy their form 4s to fit in their wallet, stocks, underneath the brim of their hat so just incase ANYONE asks about your paperwork you have it...


purely speculation :p

welchtactical
09-17-07, 12:21
What about printing a copy, rolling it up and putting it in the tube of my LMT stock? Works.

keatsabn
09-17-07, 12:33
I still would rather show Barny my Form 1 or 4, than to sit around with a fashionable set of silver bracelets in a swank 8 foot by 8 foot hotel room until an ATF agent shows up or until the get a hold of NFA branch. I would even go as far as explaining the process to him and maybe teaching him a little bit. Now saying that if Barny still wants to throw me in the clink after I show him my form than I think that my lawyer and what ever municipality that he worked for would have to some sort of financial understanding. And I would insure that the ATF was involved because the weapons were taken by a person not in my trust

SHIVAN
09-17-07, 13:24
Pure and simple...fear.

I'm getting that feeling too. If someone doesn't understand the NFA stuff, yet feels the need to question you, how are MORE documents going to clarify any "situation" that arises??

In short, non-permanent changes are okie dokie with the NFA Branch of the BATFE. If I show an inquisitive officer of a local PD a copy of my F1 or F4, are they going to understand what it says, or means? Will showing them a lengthy letter, written in legalese, help or confuse matters?

How many people have been asked for their paperwork by LE?

SHIVAN
09-17-07, 13:29
I still would rather show Barny my Form 1 or 4, than to sit around with a fashionable set of silver bracelets in a swank 8 foot by 8 foot hotel room until an ATF agent shows up or until the get a hold of NFA branch. I would even go as far as explaining the process to him and maybe teaching him a little bit. Now saying that if Barny still wants to throw me in the clink after I show him my form than I think that my lawyer and what ever municipality that he worked for would have to some sort of financial understanding. And I would insure that the ATF was involved because the weapons were taken by a person not in my trust

More power to you, but I'm not sure a stack of paperwork is going to help "Barney Fife" understand what he doesn't know.

Assuming the LE that approaches you knows what he is looking at, your F1 or F4 should be sufficient. If they don't know, they won't understand that they don't know. ;)

markm
09-17-07, 13:42
This site is weird! Not one single reply saying to store the extra upper at your grandma's house or some nutty shit! :eek:

CarlosDJackal
09-21-07, 15:02
Pure and simple...fear.

Same reason why some people photo copy their form 4s to fit in their wallet, stocks, underneath the brim of their hat so just incase ANYONE asks about your paperwork you have it...

purely speculation :p

It's more about being proactive and using one's intelligence and common sense than anything else. If you choose to ignore the possibility that not having these documents can get you into trouble; then don't whine and complain when some anti-gun ATF Agent does call you out and provides you with a nice set of chrome handcuffs until they can clear up the issue.

It's akin to skydiving without a reserve parachute: I WOULD RATHER HAVE IT AND NEVER NEED IT, THAN NEED IT AND NOT HAVE IT!! It's the same reason I carry a concealed handgun everywhere I go (legally, of course).

FWIW, I have a color copy of my Form 1 and any other forms I may need to be able to transport my SBR in my i-Shot case. That way the SBR never goes anywhere without these.

SHIVAN
09-21-07, 15:47
It's more about being proactive and using one's intelligence and common sense than anything else. If you choose to ignore the possibility that not having these documents can get you into trouble; then don't whine and complain when some anti-gun ATF Agent does call you out and provides you with a nice set of chrome handcuffs until they can clear up the issue.

If someone, ATF agent/local sheriff/local PD/game warden/mall security wants to detain you to clear up "what looks like a forged government document and letter" they will find a way to do it.

I don't care if you have a stack of letters. A stack of Form 1's. Or a stack of bibles to swear on your mother's life that the item is registered and you are not lying....

An accompanying badge might help you, but from your scenario that you envision happening -- it might not.

The ATF has written before, to many, many NFA owners, that non-permanent changes to a registered weapon, do not need to be itemized to them.

Do whatever floats your boat, but continuing to write them letters only opens the logs to more and more and more INTERPRETIVE rulings by their directors.

Which is never a good thing.