View Full Version : THIS REALLY PISSES ME OFF
Cagemonkey
02-20-11, 14:12
Got to love those lefties. They are such a classy bunch. American education/indoctrination at its finest. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/20/wounded-iraq-vet-gets-heckled-columbia-university-speech/
Rmplstlskn
02-20-11, 14:22
I think I might have been arrested for punching and dragging them out of there...
Rmpl
Glenn Beck once talked on the radio about what it was like taking a tour of Columbia University with his high school aged daughter. I am sure I am paraphrasing incorrectly, but my impression was that he thought the place sucked, that it was ultra left, anti-American, and that the people there had no clue what the USA was founded for.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
02-20-11, 14:36
**** Columbia. They don't have to accept the military programs at their school, that's their right. But, in turn, they shouldn't recieve any gov. grants/funding.
Cagemonkey
02-20-11, 15:03
I just love how these people preach toleration and peace. Truth is that their just hypocrites who believe these principles are only reserved for them selves and their beliefs. I remember in high school, these were the kids that wore peace signs while they made fun of and bullied others. Even if we have political reform in Govt it really doesn't matter since the left gets to indoctrinate and incite our youth through the educational system, mass media, arts, entertainment industry etc.
I wish we could declare non military zones :) and let the radicals know where they are
just say HEY terrorists and nut jobs SanFrancisco is wide open have at it so is Columbia and name the other places ! so we wont retaliate for what you do in those areas !
then see how long it takes them to be begging for protection
its like the idiots who hate guns in your area but know you have them ? then say well if S hits the fan I am coming over to your house !!
its like HUH you think I am going to protect you when you want to take away my rights or you decide you need them F YOU !!
this is like the 60s again ?
I've often wondered why so many of these students attend institutions of learning when they already know everything.
Oh, to be young, irresponsible, know everything, and have someone else pay for it....
Cagemonkey
02-20-11, 20:44
I've often wondered why so many of these students attend institutions of learning when they already know everything.
Oh, to be young, irresponsible, know everything, and have someone else pay for it....Its about getting away from home, getting laid, getting drunk and getting a Degree. No one ever said you had to actually learn anything. :dirol:
The 1st Amendment of the Constitution is such a pain in the ass. We should just remove it and become a state controlled by thought police.
parishioner
02-20-11, 21:17
The 1st Amendment of the Constitution is such a pain in the ass. We should just remove it and become a state controlled by thought police.
While we all agree it is within their first amendment right for these students to do what they did, it is nonetheless utterly disrespectful and enraging especially to those who have given their lives and served our country. The topic is worthy of having strong emotion over and being discussed and nobody is calling for censorship so why don't you shut up?
shouting down someone and not allowing them their right to speech ? is that OK
also their are some laws that are supposed to protect speeches and places of speech you can protest outside etc..
so why don't you shut up?
Because bullying people into submission is not going to solve any problems. You actually proved my point.
I understand the passion of this thread, hell it's been going on for 50 years. Why not actually create a dialogue though rather then sitting and pissing in the wind saying the same old shit that has been spouted for years? Get over it, people say and do stupid shit and in a free society we are supposed to at least accept this. If people are willing to fight and die for this very right, why get so upset when it is actually utilized? Maybe we should pass a law that we can't offend any Vets?
I always find it funny when people tell me to "shut the **** up" in a discussion about free speech and people who fought for it.
Of all the Vets I know 90% of them fought for us to have the right to disagree, say stupid shit from time to time, challenge our government and basically use our freedoms (however ignorant some of us may be with those freedoms).
Give it a rest, move on to something more worthwhile.
We lost the universities,as well as most important institutions in the 60s. When you make ACTUAL TERRORISTS into college professors it would be foolish to expect any other outcome.
Your right Steyr,
Every university professor in the country is exactly the same.
parishioner
02-20-11, 23:12
Because bullying people into submission is not going to solve any problems. You actually proved my point.
I understand the passion of this thread, hell it's been going on for 50 years. Why not actually create a dialogue though rather then sitting and pissing in the wind saying the same old bullshit that has been spouted for years? Get over it, people say, and do stupid shit, and in a free society, we have are supposed to be O.K. with this.
I always find it funny when people tell me to "shut the **** up", in a discussion about free speech. Most of them don't follow through when they say it to my face... ;)
Of all the Vets I know 90% of them fought for us to all disagree, say stupid shit from time to time, challenge our government and basically use our freedoms (however ignorant some of us may be with those freedoms).
Give it a rest, move on to something more worthwhile.
I have no problem with them disagreeing. Its the way they handled the situation. It goes back to "just because you can doesn't mean you should" and what they did was inappropriate. I don't think its too damn hard to hold your comments and show a little respect to someone whose body endured 11 rounds of enemy 7.62 and spent two years recovering in a hospital.
Do I want to shut them up and take away their right to free speech? No.
Do I think the students who heckled the veteran are a bunch of ivy league assholes that exude a smug moral superiority and don't have an ounce of common courtesy? Yes.
That's all we're saying. Things happen in the world. People discuss them. Its called conversation. We will move along once we feel nothing more needs to be said. We are generally pretty good at self regulating the amount of pertinent dialogue.
The "shut up" part was basically another way of saying "take that unwarranted bullshit comment elsewhere" since nobody mentioned or hinted anything about revoking the 1st amendment. I also would have had no problem saying the same in your presence had a group of us been discussing the issue in the flesh. After all, you would get over it I presume, since people say, and do stupid shit, and in a free society, you are supposed to be O.K. with this. ;)
It is society as a whole's responsibility to self-police and let these a-holes at Columbia know that that sort of stuff is not tolerated.
Just because they legally can does not mean that it should be tolerated by society. That sort of action should lead to ostracization of those behaving in that manner.
The 1A only protects your speech from infringement by laws. It does not protect you from being called out on it by society as a whole.
We get that sort of behavior because it is tolerated.
GermanSynergy
02-20-11, 23:40
Typical seditious left wing Communist behavior. :mad:
I took speech in college
back in the early 80s though ?
but we learned you always give the speaker the respect to speak then ask questions and if you disagree make a very strong question but always give the speaker the chance to finish
sadly I dont think that is done anymore and their is no respect
when I was in college I might not agree with my teachers but I gave them respect
when I was out I gave adults respect I could ask and disagree though was never taught to roll over and take it but give someone the respect of finishing then say your thoughts
once you stoop down to the level of shouting someone down sadly you lost all credibility IMHO at least :)
Don Robison
02-21-11, 00:39
The 1st Amendment of the Constitution is such a pain in the ass. We should just remove it and become a state controlled by thought police.
But attempting to stifle his speech is acceptable? How so; please explain.
But attempting to stifle his speech is acceptable? How so; please explain.
I really don't see Mac5.56 as trying to stifle any one's speech. He's commenting on people inciting violence to stop the assholes from being assholes.
As sickening as the alleged (I would like to see the video, I watched some clips from the town hall last night and don't recall any boos or shit talking) heckling was, people are within their right's to act like ass hats. Using violence to shut their hole isn't one afforded to us by the constitution.
If I'm in the grocery store with my elderly mother and some asshole makes a rude comment, I don't have the right to beat his ass no matter how infuriated I am that he's shown such disrespect towards my mother. It's called being civil, and no it's not being pc.
Just in case people read more than I wrote, something people seem to enjoy doing. I side with those who are angered by vets being treated like shit. In fact I'm angered by any decent person being treated with disrespect.
Don Robison
02-21-11, 01:03
I really don't see Mac5.56 as trying to stifle any one's speech. He's commenting on people inciting violence to stop the assholes from being assholes.
I was referring to the college douche bags from stifling the Vets speech.
Personally, I don't see a problem with the poor misguided souls being shown that even though they have a right to say it; it doesn't necessarily come without consequences such as a broken jaw.
I'd like to see the GOP stop offering any federal money, including student loans, to places like Columbia. In fact it would be really good if the government completely stopped any non-military student aid. Privatize all universities. We'll see how long universities subsidize communist dilettantes on their own dime.
Because bullying people into submission is not going to solve any problems. You actually proved my point.
I understand the passion of this thread, hell it's been going on for 50 years. Why not actually create a dialogue though rather then sitting and pissing in the wind saying the same old shit that has been spouted for years? Get over it, people say and do stupid shit and in a free society we are supposed to at least accept this. If people are willing to fight and die for this very right, why get so upset when it is actually utilized? Maybe we should pass a law that we can't offend any Vets?
I always find it funny when people tell me to "shut the **** up" in a discussion about free speech and people who fought for it.
Of all the Vets I know 90% of them fought for us to have the right to disagree, say stupid shit from time to time, challenge our government and basically use our freedoms (however ignorant some of us may be with those freedoms).
Give it a rest, move on to something more worthwhile.
the same could be said about your posts here. ;)
montanadave
02-21-11, 09:17
Understandably, this situation evokes strong reactions from many, particularly those who have served and sacrificed in the military. And I do not condone the actions of those who showed disrespect towards Mr. Maschek.
However, after listening to an audio clip of Anthony Maschek's remarks at the Columbia University town hall meeting where this incident occurred, the hecklers were limited to several brief outbursts during his remarks, the moderator quickly stepped in, and the overall response to Mr. Maschek's remarks was applause. Here's a link to the audio clip:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/senate/militaryengagement/20110215clip.mp3
A quick Google search indicates this incident has been seized upon as "red meat" by every conservative blog and website to create the proverbial "tempest in a teapot" for purely political purposes. Listen to the clip and judge for yourself.
rickrock305
02-21-11, 10:39
I'd like to see the GOP stop offering any federal money, including student loans, to places like Columbia. In fact it would be really good if the government completely stopped any non-military student aid. Privatize all universities. We'll see how long universities subsidize communist dilettantes on their own dime.
Yea, that would be genius. As a country we are already falling behind the rest of the world in education. Why not just seal the deal and make sure nobody can afford to go to college! We can all be a nation of unskilled and uneducated slaves, yea that will really show them!
rickrock305
02-21-11, 10:42
A quick Google search indicates this incident has been seized upon as "red meat" by every conservative blog and website to create the proverbial "tempest in a teapot" for purely political purposes. Listen to the clip and judge for yourself.
Par for the course. And the iron is that these same folks have no problem trashing people like John Kerry and his military service.
Yea, that would be genius. As a country we are already falling behind the rest of the world in education. Why not just seal the deal and make sure nobody can afford to go to college! We can all be a nation of unskilled and uneducated slaves, yea that will really show them!
Do a little research. There is a strong correlation between cost of university and government student aid. The more aid the government gives, the higher the prices go to attend.
Let the market decide what it needs.
The 1st Amendment of the Constitution is such a pain in the ass. We should just remove it and become a state controlled by thought police.
It has nothing to do with the 1st Amendment, it has to do with respect. Let the guy speak, they can have their turn as well. Those students are disrespectful, pompous pieces of shit.
Belmont31R
02-21-11, 11:02
Yea, that would be genius. As a country we are already falling behind the rest of the world in education. Why not just seal the deal and make sure nobody can afford to go to college! We can all be a nation of unskilled and uneducated slaves, yea that will really show them!
Its already practically free if you're poor or a minority.
rickrock305
02-21-11, 11:51
Do a little research. There is a strong correlation between cost of university and government student aid. The more aid the government gives, the higher the prices go to attend.
That is a fair argument to make. But its kinda like the chicked/egg argument, what came first? Was it increased schooling costs that in turn drove the increase in need of government aid? Or was it the other way around? Research shows that the cost of attendance at institutions of higher learning has increased approximately 109-121% from 1971 to the year 2000, an increase that has not been matched by federal assistance programs. Additionally, most federal student aid is in the form of loans, with interest, not grants. I think its pretty hard to make the argument that helping people who want to go to college to better themselves is not a sound investment which will in turn better our economy and country overall.
rickrock305
02-21-11, 11:52
Its already practically free if you're poor or a minority.
Are you a minority? How do you know this? What evidence do you have to support this?
Yea, that would be genius. As a country we are already falling behind the rest of the world in education. Why not just seal the deal and make sure nobody can afford to go to college! We can all be a nation of unskilled and uneducated slaves, yea that will really show them!
hmmm not going so well these days compared with times in past when we were farther up the ladder comparing to others :)
to many lefty teachers worrying about teaching how to be a lefty than teaching what people need to know
so blame the left for the issues cause thats who is in charge at schools now and the proof is in your words we are falling behind
need to get teachers that just teach not make their kids go to protests teach them how their parents are wrong teaching them about lies like global warming and so on
as far as the money ? well more now than ever its been easier for people to get in and we have gone downhill compared to the past ! so thats proof the lefts way of privilege is not working
That is a fair argument to make. But its kinda like the chicked/egg argument, what came first? Was it increased schooling costs that in turn drove the increase in need of government aid? Or was it the other way around? Research shows that the cost of attendance at institutions of higher learning has increased approximately 109-121% from 1971 to the year 2000, an increase that has not been matched by federal assistance programs. Additionally, most federal student aid is in the form of loans, with interest, not grants. I think its pretty hard to make the argument that helping people who want to go to college to better themselves is not a sound investment which will in turn better our economy and country overall.
funny how the teachers now make more than ever yet preach to the rich to give away their money yet they are making way more and getting way more benefits so blame the unions and the teachers for the rising costs and their greed (they meaning most union and higher ups) and with that making the education system so expensive
hypocritical dont ya think :)
I agree people need help but do not just give it away to who ever
join the military ! they will help
get a good scholarship etc..
in my days many put them selves through school just fine and many did it with jobs that people wont take these days or cant get cause illegals do those jobs instead ! our society with its PRIVILEGED attitude is to good to wash dishes or bus tables and they want that CEO position NOW and dont think they should have to work up to it etc..
help people out I agree with but they should at the first sign of things going south such as dropped grades below a certain point any kind of arrest and conviction they get dropped etc.. and then make them pay back what they stole from the system !!!!
Are you a minority? How do you know this? What evidence do you have to support this?
how about just look at California and what they are doing for illegals compared to US citizens !
rickrock305
02-21-11, 15:02
How about instead of looking for people to blame we worry about solutions. Then maybe try some grammar and punctuation to form your stream of consciousness into a coherent thought.
Yea, those greedy teachers making $20-$40k a year. :rolleyes:
ChicagoTex
02-21-11, 15:05
Its already practically free if you're poor or a minority.
As someone who was forced to leave Western Illinois University (one of the cheapest 4 year universities in the state) in his 3rd year because he ran out of money and hit the limit on unsubsidized loans (as well as subsidized loans and grant money - the grant money only covered about 50% of tuition by the way) I take exception to this.
Granted, I'm not a minority, so I can't speak to that, but I can tell you that the notion that college is "practically free" for the poor is a damn lie. :mad:
Your right Steyr,
Every university professor in the country is exactly the same.
I don't recall saying that. But the vast majority have a similar "socialist" mind set and the ones who don't are for all intents an oppressed minority.
And it isn't just some theoretical socialists who think "communism could work" who have no real world understanding of what it actually is. It is the fact that people like Ward Churchill and Bill Ayers (who is an actual terrorist who killed people) are professors at Universities who are contributing to the formation of opinions. To say they are promoting a socialist agenda is too kind.
Par for the course. And the iron is that these same folks have no problem trashing people like John Kerry and his military service.
I don't think anyone trashes John Kerry for his military service. I've seen the circumstances of some of his decorations brought into question. And I've seen his involvement with Hanoi supported "peace movements" such as Vietnam Veterans Against The War brought up (and rightly so as it is likely treason). But I don't think I've seen anyone criticize his military service.
Yea, those greedy teachers making $20-$40k a year. :rolleyes:
Are you a teacher? How do you know this? What evidence do you have to support this?
Cincinnatus
02-21-11, 17:21
From what I've read, the Wisconsin teachers average over 100k a year before benefits.
Cagemonkey
02-21-11, 19:09
From what I've read, the Wisconsin teachers average over 100k a year before benefits.
WOW, WTF
rickrock305
02-21-11, 20:31
From what I've read, the Wisconsin teachers average over 100k a year before benefits.
I don't know what drivel you're reading...
rickrock305
02-21-11, 20:34
double post
rickrock305
02-21-11, 20:39
I don't think anyone trashes John Kerry for his military service. I've seen the circumstances of some of his decorations brought into question. And I've seen his involvement with Hanoi supported "peace movements" such as Vietnam Veterans Against The War brought up (and rightly so as it is likely treason). But I don't think I've seen anyone criticize his military service.
Rush Limbaugh was cheered at CPAC for mocking Kerry's service.
And then there's the swift boat folks.
There was PLENTY of mockery and criticism during that election.
rickrock305
02-21-11, 20:44
Are you a teacher? How do you know this? What evidence do you have to support this?
Here's average teacher salaries for Wisconsin. They are higher than a lot of places though. Most teachers I have known make between 20-30K a year. `
http://dpi.state.wi.us/lbstat/newasr.html
Rush Limbaugh was cheered at CPAC for mocking Kerry's service.
And then there's the swift boat folks.
There was PLENTY of mockery and criticism during that election.
I don't know what Limbaugh said, however, the swift boat people did not mock Kerry's service. They mocked his actions during his service. There is big difference.
Most teachers I have known make between 20-30K a year.
That is bullshit.
Average total compensation 2010-2011:
$81,390
Like I said in the other thread, their medical benefit is worth ~20k a year if purchased as a private family. That is still well over the average income of a FAMILY (many containing more than 1 worker) in Wisconsin (~52k). It is unclear if their pension on retirement (48% max pay after age 57 or 30 years in are reached) is included in this average.
I don't know if you are lying or just gullible. Teachers are told by their unions to lie about how much money they make, in case you don't know that.
http://www.wasb.org/images/stories/PDFs/collective_bargaining_data/1011%20Teacher%20Total%20Compensation.pdf
http://www.wasb.org/teacher-qeo-total-compensation-data-3.html
PS. Note that some school districts are compensating over 100k a year but that is total compensation, not before benefits as stated by winfield. See charts.
From what I've read, the Wisconsin teachers average over 100k a year before benefits.
Cagemonkey
02-21-11, 21:20
Also teachers only work approx 180 days a year with numerous vacations including summer vacation (Approx June 20th to labor day).
Also teachers only work approx 180 days a year with numerous vacations including summer vacation (Approx June 20th to labor day).
Which if you extrapolate out would mean that $81k is really equivalent to about $108K (81/.75 which is a three month summer break which is about what schools out here in the west have since they don't take a week long February vacation and a week long April vacation and depending on where you are are also very stingy with snow days -- change it to 2.5 months and it is still about $101k).
Cagemonkey
02-21-11, 21:29
Which if you extrapolate out would mean that $81k is really equivalent to about $108K (81/.75 which is a three month summer break which is about what schools out here in the west have since they don't take a week long February vacation and a week long April vacation and depending on where you are are also very stingy with snow days -- change it to 2.5 months and it is still about $101k).add the cash only tax free side jobs many may take during those summer month. For example: camp councilors, painters etc. We haven't even gotten into the college/university Professor's yet.
How about instead of looking for people to blame we worry about solutions. Then maybe try some grammar and punctuation to form your stream of consciousness into a coherent thought.
Yea, those greedy teachers making $20-$40k a year. :rolleyes:
mock my grammar :) thats fine
while I might not know grammar at least I am not blind and stupid to the world around me
like I say YES I suck at writing but at least I know my weakness do you know yours !!! cause I could say its more than likely common sense
as for blaming ? well if you catch a thief in the act do you blame him or blame some other idea like his parenting ?
I would blame him he did it not his parents !
so when I see people doing things I know are wrong like shouting someone down ! its easy to point fingers ! you point them at the people shouting others down !!!!
remember they went to his speech to do this !!!
just like other left tactics that do this then point the blame somewhere else ?
**** Columbia. They don't have to accept the military programs at their school, that's their right. But, in turn, they shouldn't recieve any gov. grants/funding.
I just told my wife this very thing.
Because bullying people into submission is not going to solve any problems. You actually proved my point.
I understand the passion of this thread, hell it's been going on for 50 years. Why not actually create a dialogue though rather then sitting and pissing in the wind saying the same old shit that has been spouted for years? Get over it, people say and do stupid shit and in a free society we are supposed to at least accept this. If people are willing to fight and die for this very right, why get so upset when it is actually utilized? Maybe we should pass a law that we can't offend any Vets?
I always find it funny when people tell me to "shut the **** up" in a discussion about free speech and people who fought for it.
Of all the Vets I know 90% of them fought for us to have the right to disagree, say stupid shit from time to time, challenge our government and basically use our freedoms (however ignorant some of us may be with those freedoms).
Give it a rest, move on to something more worthwhile.
It is more about respect, less about free speech, but then you already know that. Which makes me think that you enjoy the responses that you get from some of your posts
From what I've read, the Wisconsin teachers average over 100k a year before benefits.
Yeah, no. My mother in law is a high school teacher with her masters in WI and I can assure you that she does not make that kind of coin before benefits.
Here's average teacher salaries for Wisconsin. They are higher than a lot of places though. Most teachers I have known make between 20-30K a year. `
http://dpi.state.wi.us/lbstat/newasr.html
In some of the districts in southern Arizona, first year teachers start at around $25K (cost of living here is lower than some other places). That is just salary. They are also given plenty of sick days, vacation days, and are well taken care of via benefits. Many have great medical and retirement packages. Also, don't forget tenure and the complete job security it provides. These benefits are worth a lot, as others have stated.
SWATcop556
02-21-11, 22:31
This thread is way off topic. If you want to discuss teachers and their salaries you can start another thread. If you want to discuss the situation in WI then I suggest taking your conversation to the threads already going on that topic.
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