View Full Version : Holster cant
I tried searching, but "cant" is under the word count limit. Tried the orange button and got some very brief, vague, and old threads on the topic. If someone has better results with either please feel free to post the link and I'll move my question over there.
I thought we might try to have one thread to talk about cant, what determines what works best, what cant you like best, what cants you've tried and found lacking, etc.
Just out of the gate, it seems to me that in order for others to understand your opinion you're going to need to tell us IWB vs. OWB, concealment or open, ride height, pistol make/model, and rotational position (o'clock) you wear the gun on your belt. Application (gaming, CCW, LE duty, etc.) may be of use as well.
I use both a straight drop Bladetech holster and a Safariland FBI (forward) cant depending on application. Handgun is always a G19. Position is normally 2:30-3 o'clock owb, almost always concealed.
I will interchange the use of these two but generally I use the straight drop Bladetech when I am upright and walking, such as hiking or hunting. I normaly use the Safariland FBI cant for concealed public carry, especially when driving or sitting for periods of time.
I have found the Safariland with FBI cant pulls the weapon in closer to the body for better concealment and the cant also pulls the butt forward enough to make sitting and driving more comfortable.
I've had a slight back injury in the past and the forward cant makes carrying a little more comfortable in most cases. I've also thought of returning to a shoulder holster for some situations due to this injury.
ehcarl2983
02-21-11, 10:15
I carry a g19 w/ x300 in a phantom LC with the MD cut for ccw. With this option the gun rides in a "0" or neutral cant. This holster carries very high, meaning the height of the gun above the belt-line is higher than past holsters I've used. Soon I will be receiving the offset IWB loops in hope that this allows me to lower it some. I carry it right at 3 O'clock IWB. I've found this to be a great location for myself after working with appendix carry for around 6 months.
The "cant" of my holster is dictated by my preference to carry at the 3 0'clock position.
-Located here a neutral cant, will cant itself with the natural reaction of your body to adrenaline, be it a potential threat, or a pistol competition. Your knees will bend and your shoulders will lean slightly forward, "canting" the gun a few degrees with your body. I believe any cant in the holster carried at this location would make an effective draw more difficult IMVHO.
my .02 but as always YMMV.
I carry an SR9c either IWB or OWB depending on what I am wearing, always at 3:30-4:00. Both are forward canted, I find it is more comfortable and it conceals much better. I'm only 5'9 170 so I don't have a very "deep" waist. the IWB sits a little lower than the OWB does, so I have just enough of the weapon sticking up that I can get a combat grip on it. The OWB I prefer higher so there is less of a chance of it sticking out of the bottom of my shirt.
If you know it, including the actual number of degrees of cant the manufacturer claims would be helpful. Just today I've seen 10, 15, and 25 in various places for various makers, so simply "forward cant" may not explain the whole picture.
For me, a neutral cant holster worn at 2:30 - 3:00 is more comfortable to draw from (and faster). A forward cant requires me to lean forward more and push my elbow out more to get a solid grip, which works, but its slower. A forward cant does help conceal the pistol, especially when worn slightly behind the hip. However, I am on the small side (5'11" 155lbs) and am comfortable concealing a full size gun OWB with neutral cant under an untucked polo with the right holster.
All with a G17:
Uniform duty: Safariland 6365 (ALS) with QLS so I can adjust it for neutral cant. The holster rides between 2:30 and 3:00.
Plain clothes duty: Safainland 6377 adjusted for neutral cant. Also between 3:30 and 3:00.
Off duty CCW:
-Raven Phantom, neutral cant, OWB at 2:30-3:00. This was with a M&P40 full size. I am still looking for a good replacement holster for a G17 that doesn't come with a four month wait.
-Comp-Tac MTAC, slight forward cant (less than 10*), IWB, at 3:30. IWB is the only way I will compromise and carry slightly behind the hip with a forward cant. I have not found an IWB holster that is comfortable at 3:00, so slightly behind the hip it is.
Cant is certainly a personal preference. We have done a lot of different testing that includes many variables:
- Size of pistol
- Size of user
- Location of holster on belt
- Ride height of holster
- Various medical/motion of arm and shoulder injuries
We found the position that offered the best compromise of concealment and speed of draw is 10 degrees forward when the holster is worn behind the hip. Zero degrees is popular for those wearing right at 3oclock or in front of the hip.
There is a sliding scale of ability to tuck the grip in, and ability to tuck the barrel in. The further you cant the holster forward, the farther back your barrel goes, which can create printing or discomfort. Furthermore, an extremely aggressive cant often creates a more difficult draw stroke, but that is dependent on carry position, flexibility of the user, etc. The majority of our sales are for Light Compatible holsters, so that sliding scale becomes even more severe with a light attached to the pistol.
'FBI Cant' is also an interesting topic. It seems manufacturers haven't been able to settle on what 'FBI Cant' really is. Most are 15 degrees, but they can be anywhere from 15-25 based on the manufacturer. This can make it confusing for buyers, which is why we quote actual degrees.
The above is just a bit of info we've gathered in our R&D process. There are recommendations and guidelines that I believe are good to follow, but in the end it's the user's choice. That's why our gear is adjustable and we offer to make a holster from 0-25 degrees on customer request.
I have always liked being as compact as possible when drawing, so I use a zero cant holster, riding at 3-330 on my right hip.
Kydex 0 cant holster, OWB pancake style
S&W M&P9 full size with grip cut down to accept compact mags
Concealed carry
It works for me to keep my elbow close to my body and everything compact when drawing to arms extended. I used to have a 10 degree cant and riding at 4-5 oclock, but I tended to swing the pistol around more and sweep things unintentionally that were right next to my right hip.
Hello Everyone,
Like many on this board I have experimented with a wide range of combinations over the past 16 years of CCW. Most of my carry guns are full size and I stand 5'9" with a solid 205 pounds. With my muscular shoulders and chest my range of movement is more limited than a super skinny guy like say Clint Smith. So I favor IWB and OWB rigs with an approximate cant of 15 degrees at 3:30 for CCW. Ken Null's UNS IWB is my favorite belt rig period. It allows me to carry a full sized USP 45 Expert under an untucked shirt in warm weather. It also delivers an extremely natural and fast draw stroke.
When I carry a large frame revolver (e.g., S&W N-frame) when heading out hiking and such I have been experimenting with a Kramer Thomas Perfectionist with its radical 30 degree plus cant. This particular holster was designed to allow one to easily draw the gun while seated and it does this very well. For revolvers it also has the added advantage of placing the cylinder above the belt line for added comfort. While I favor it for revolvers I am not so hot on it for autos. Overall it is not as concealable as the UNS.
Perhaps what I should try next is a UNS for my revolvers!
YMMV...
Antonius
I carry an XD .40 in a Blackhawk IWB in the middle of my back. Its a LEFT handed holster but I am RIGHT handed. I have it canted in about the 10 o'clock...maybe 10:30. The left handed holster is comfortable and I have NO problems concealing even with normal T-shirts.
I prefer to carry OWB with a 15 degree cant at 3:00 - 3:30. For me, I find the draw stroke easier with a cant and concealment to be easier than a holster with a straight drop. I have had straight drop holsters in the past and was happy to switch to holsters with a forward cant. I think the holster would need to be high ride for me not to want a cant.
It's interesting to see this topic come up now. Recently I had a disagreement with a holster company (I won't mention names) that offers to make their OWB holsters with a forward cant but adds an upcharge that increases the price by about 30% over their neutral, straight drop holsters. Given how common a forward cant is on a holster, I was surprised that their attitude was that they basically don't want to do it so if you want it, it's going to cost you a lot.
The experience has motivated me to consider trying Raven Concealment since people seem to have a positive experience with them and their products.
Cincinnatus
02-21-11, 15:39
Cant is certainly a personal preference. We have done a lot of different testing that includes many variables:
- Size of pistol
- Size of user
- Location of holster on belt
- Ride height of holster
- Various medical/motion of arm and shoulder injuries
We found the position that offered the best compromise of concealment and speed of draw is 10 degrees forward when the holster is worn behind the hip. Zero degrees is popular for those wearing right at 3oclock or in front of the hip.
There is a sliding scale of ability to tuck the grip in, and ability to tuck the barrel in. The further you cant the holster forward, the farther back your barrel goes, which can create printing or discomfort. Furthermore, an extremely aggressive cant often creates a more difficult draw stroke, but that is dependent on carry position, flexibility of the user, etc. The majority of our sales are for Light Compatible holsters, so that sliding scale becomes even more severe with a light attached to the pistol.
'FBI Cant' is also an interesting topic. It seems manufacturers haven't been unable to settle on what 'FBI Cant' really is. Most are 15 degrees, but they can be anywhere from 15-25 based on the manufacturer. This can make it confusing for buyers, which is why we quote actual degrees.
The above is just a bit of info we've gathered in our R&D process. There are recommendations and guidelines that I believe are good to follow, but in the end it's the user's choice. That's why our gear is adjustable and we offer to make a holster from 0-25 degrees on customer request.
Outstanding information; thanks for taking the time to tell us this.
Moose-Knuckle
02-22-11, 01:44
CCW, G19, AIWB, zero cant.
For AIWB if the gun was canted at all the muzzle would be digging into my crotch luggage causing muy disscomfort.
I carry OWB appendix or 2 O'clock using a straight drop for my G27 and G30. I feel I have the best concealment and quickest draw in this configuration. I also don't have to worry about anything sticking out when I bend over to tie shoes or get something from a store shelf. I tend to have a high ride mounting option so the holster never digs into my hips when seated. Drawing the weapon seated is even better than at 3 or 4 O'clock. I have bony hips and everything digs and causes discomfort when worn any other way.
OWB Carry of a GLOCK 19 with a TLR-1s at 3-3:30 position. My light carrier has a slight cant and is very comfortable and easy to conceal under a t-shirt or light cover garment.
My only complaint is trying to draw the weapon with my weak hand, across my body. With the light, it is very difficult. I have to weigh the ability to have a weapon mounted light versus the easier ability to draw my weapon with my weak hand of necessary.
In my opinion, severe cants forward hinder the ability to do a proper draw stroke.
Cant is certainly a personal preference. We have done a lot of different testing that includes many variables:
- Size of pistol
- Size of user
- Location of holster on belt
- Ride height of holster
- Various medical/motion of arm and shoulder injuries
We found the position that offered the best compromise of concealment and speed of draw is 10 degrees forward when the holster is worn behind the hip. Zero degrees is popular for those wearing right at 3oclock or in front of the hip.
There is a sliding scale of ability to tuck the grip in, and ability to tuck the barrel in. The further you cant the holster forward, the farther back your barrel goes, which can create printing or discomfort. Furthermore, an extremely aggressive cant often creates a more difficult draw stroke, but that is dependent on carry position, flexibility of the user, etc. The majority of our sales are for Light Compatible holsters, so that sliding scale becomes even more severe with a light attached to the pistol.
'FBI Cant' is also an interesting topic. It seems manufacturers haven't been able to settle on what 'FBI Cant' really is. Most are 15 degrees, but they can be anywhere from 15-25 based on the manufacturer. This can make it confusing for buyers, which is why we quote actual degrees.
The above is just a bit of info we've gathered in our R&D process. There are recommendations and guidelines that I believe are good to follow, but in the end it's the user's choice. That's why our gear is adjustable and we offer to make a holster from 0-25 degrees on customer request.
Thanks for the reply. Good information there.
Where to begin?
First off, I’m a civilian (non-LEO, non-MIL) who carries daily for self defense and defense of my family. I carry concealed 99% of the time. The only time I carry openly is on the way to/from a match/range/class/etc and even that is rare. I have had my carry license for 10 years but have only really become a student of the gun within the past 4-5 years. During this time my style of carry has changed somewhat.
I think it’s pretty typical for people to change the method/style of carry as their proficiency and experience progress. You start off just “carrying” without much thought to anything except comfort and concealment. You have no idea what “works” because you haven’t really “done” anything. As you begin to take classes, practice on your own, network with peers, you start to experiment and see what works for you.
I started carrying with either a cheap Fobus paddle with a forward cant or a cheap nylon IWB of unknown descent. What’s funny is I still have the cheap nylon IWB and use it daily. Fortunately, I don’t carry it. I mounted it somewhere in the house (concealed) for easy access. Best $10 I’ve spent on gun “stuff”. Lol.
After moving from these crappy holsters I started to carry with a very aggressive cant IWB rolled around to almost 5 o’clock. I felt that concealed well and was pretty comfortable. I gave no real though to retention, ease of draw, muzzle sweeps, or any dangers normally associated with SOB carry. This was normally done with a compact GLOCK in a Comp-Tac CTAC or MTAC.
These days I carry with either a zero or very low degree of forward cant in pretty much a 3 o’clock position. On occasion I will still experiment with moving the holster slightly forward/rearward of 3 but in the end it always ends up back at 3. I have been carrying OWB concealed most of the winter but as spring/summer approach I foresee going back to IWB most of the time. This is due to concealment issues when wearing just t-shirt (no cover shirt or jacket). I suspect the position and cant pref will remain unchanged.
As far as ride height goes, I prefer the mouth of the holster body to ride half inch or so above the belt line. This keeps my pants out of the way but is still low enough for comfort, concealment, and ease of draw. I find if the holster rides too high it is difficult for me to draw quickly. I feel like it’s jammed up into my armpit. No thanks. My OWB holsters normally do ride a bit higher than this but the difference seems negligible, maybe I’m used to it. I do try to keep everything pretty much in the same place for consistency.
VolGrad, great post!
As far as ride height goes, I prefer the mouth of the holster body to ride half inch or so above the belt line. This keeps my pants out of the way but is still low enough for comfort, concealment, and ease of draw. I find if the holster rides too high it is difficult for me to draw quickly. I feel like it’s jammed up into my armpit. No thanks. My OWB holsters normally do ride a bit higher than this but the difference seems negligible, maybe I’m used to it. I do try to keep everything pretty much in the same place for consistency.
Interesting sub-topic. In working with several different holster and belt makers over the last year or so, I've found that this issue of ride-height is very complex. Not the least of the problems is everyone's different body styles, and even on only one person's body finding a stable datum from which to measure offsets. Many different 0 points matter. Fro the basic draw distance from armpit the hell of grip matter. For achieving that initial grip, distance from beltline to frontstrap matters, as does distance of holster mouth above beltline and from frontstrap. Belt width comes into play. As does belt thickness. and distance from top of hem of waistline, to inside top of belt loop, to inside bottom of belt loop.
None of these things really matter on an individual basis. Shooters figure out what works for them, and change it based on need, new products, and actual use. But from a manufacturer's standpoint it's a nightmare.
I prefer closer to straight drop for OWB and IWB, with maybe just a click of cant for IWB, but only a small amount. This is carrying G19, M&P 9 fs, BHP at 3:00.
...
threeheadeddog
03-07-11, 19:37
I have a comp-tac belt holster with vertical cant(or no cant).---Game holster
I also have a RCS w/light that has 10degree cant.---OWB carry
Wilson Featherweight with adjustable cant(sort of it actually only uses one screw so it will rotate on it own)---IWB carry
I find that while vertical cant may technically be the "fastest" I have a more consistant draw stroke with a slight forward cant especially with guns such as the M&P which have a beavertail but not an upswept one. While I was more than happy with a vertical cant(zero cant) game holster for my 1911 I find my current comp-tac lacking only because I find myself sticking the web of my hand with the beavertail on ocassion. Having said that I may never go to a canted game holster, but my next holster will be a RCS or equivilent with slight cant(smallest available) for carry of my M&P.
threeheadeddog
03-07-11, 19:39
sorry 3:00 game holster
3:00-4:00 RCS
either apendix or 5:00ish with the wilson featherweight
CaptainDooley
03-09-11, 00:06
I carry concealed, a full size M&P9. When I first started carrying it, I carried behind the him (4-4:30ish) and preferred a 15-20º cant or so. As a bigger guy, I didn't like that I had zero hope of drawing with my weak hand, so I decided to try wearing somewhere between 1-3 o'clock. I found that 15º was too much and zero was too little, since this caused the sharp top edge of my Warren sights to dig into my festively plumpedness. It seems like right in the middle (around 7.5º) seems to work well for me forward of the hip.
As for ride height - behind the hip was all IWB, with the holster mouth basically at the same height as my belt line. The forward of the hip carry has been OWB and the mouth of the holster is no more than an inch above my belt line.
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