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View Full Version : AAR: Vickers Tactical 1911 Operators Class - Feb 19-20, 2011 - Virginia Beach, VA‎



chris914
02-21-11, 21:13
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

Trying to sum up all of what this class has going for it is a hard thing to do but this is my two cents worth:

The class was a mix of mainly civilians with some LE/Mil types as well. Pistols ranged from the basic Mil-Spec Springfield to the incredably nice Wilson Supergrade. I do have to say that the newest offering from Colt, the Rail Gun looks really good and shoots really good.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/158.jpg

I shot a pair of Springfields (one a Mil-Spec, the other a 9mm with fixed Novak sights), a Rock River and my trusty Series 1 Kimber Custom. All performed well save the Mil-Spec but more on that later.

TD 1:
The day started out blustery and chilly with winds gusting up to 25 mph. This wind made keeping the targets on the backers a chore till the 100 mph tape came out. After some judicial use of sticky stuff all was better. LAV gave his signature safety brief emphasizing the real world use of firearms. After the safety brief, it was on to some trigger control exercises. Placing a case on the front sight and dry firing the pistols brought a realization to more than a few shooters that this was going to be a real learning experience straight out of the gate. We quickly moved on to various Ball & Dummy drills including one of my favorite drills Command Fire Ball & Dummy. For those of you that may not know this drill, the deal is that you start on target with trigger slack out and on the timer’s beep you pull the trigger. Sounds easy but this one is a real mofo. It will quickly allow El Snatcho to creep in if you are not careful. After the Ball & Dummy drills, we went on to other items like the reload and presenting the pistol from the holster. Each drill was demonstrated by LAV. Then LAV would walk the line and provide corrective input to each shooter as it was needed. We shot a few team drills and a walk back drill (won by Larry with the laser accurate Wilson Combat Tactical Supergrade)

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/242.jpg

LAV also brought out a back up in 9mm. Both of these pistols show that Wilson Combat knows a thing or two about the 1911.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/244.jpg

We finished off TD 1 with some shooting on the move. Anyone that has not done this is going to get a rude awakening when you try it the first time. It is not as easy as it seems in the movies. That being said, watching LAV demo this will just make you sick. He just keeps putting the holes in the black part of the target.



TD 2:
Training day 2 started with the classroom portion of the class.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/129.jpg

Once the class was assembled, LAV took us through the complete detail strip of a 1911 while fielding questions and providing colorful analysis of all things 1911. LAV then offered his deft touch with a belt sander to anyone whose 1911 did not meet the standards set forth. LAV used the tool to provide a quick deburr of the recoil spring guide or shorten a really extended ejector or two. LAV also advised student on what to check for and how to conduct bench tests of the various components. This was followed up with some tips for reassembling the 1911 including the Colt Series 80 and Kimber/Smith & Wesson (Schwartz) firing pin safeties. This was not a quick down and dirty type of disassembly of a 1911 but a thorough well explained venture that left no stone unturned. What can I say, LAV knows the 1911. This portion of the class really separated the enthusiasts from the tire kickers. The tire kickers were quite happy to go back to their Glocks while the enthusiasts were begging for more. Most in the class were of the latter variety.
After a quick lunch, we began with the field function check of their 1911 pistol. Each student completed this under the watchful eye of LAV. Some pistols did not do so well. My Springfield Mil-Spec did not pass the extractor test. I will be tweaking it more and conducting the test again soon. I am glad that this is not my daily carry pistol. Following the completion of the function check came the JV (15 yard) version of the dreaded “Humbler” aka the 700 point aggregate (minus the prone portion so in truth it would be the 600 point aggregate with modified scoring). This drill, shot at 25 yards, has been used at the Unit as both a point of pride and a measure of a shooter’s abilities. Even at 15 yards it is a true test. Some shooters shot this drill well, others (myself included) have had better drills. We finished off the day with some team drills on steel at about 7 yards.

All in all, this class was a great chance to learn more about a truly great piece of history from an instructor that has no equal on this platform.


Thanks go out to Josh and Paul at Grey Group for doing the heavy lifting in setting up this class, C2 for hosting it, Justin from Colt for hooking Paul up with a really nice blaster and last but not least Larry Vickers for helping keep "The world's finest fighting handgun" alive.

Oops! I almost forgot to mention that some of the great folks in attendance including:

The guys from Arc'teryx http://www.arcteryx.com/?EN came down from the Great White North for some instruction on the 1911 from the master. If you have never seen the gear that these guys put out you are missing the boat on some of the finest apparel out there.

Stephen from Blue Force Gear also came up with the Grey Group guys. Blue Force Gear makes some of the finest kit money can buy including the best carbine sling in the world.
http://www.blueforcegear.com/

John from Aimpoint came out as well. He is an excellant shooter by the way. http://www.aimpoint.com/us/

We also had a chance to use a new target during our walk back drill. The target is a quick self-resetting adaptable plate by Strike Mark sniper targets http://strikemark.com/. There targets are really nice. They are some of the quickest resetting targets out there bar none. I hope to shoot at these targets again in the future. Thanks again to Yanne for bringing that out.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg
www.greygrouptraining.com


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/400_C2_Logo_Center_Crop_with_lettering.jpg

C2 Shooting Center
www.virginiashootingrange.com

C45P312
02-21-11, 21:31
Looks awesome. Wish I shot my 1911 as much as my other guns. Maybe the next local one, I'll reload the heck out of some 45acp.

Thanks for the AAR Chris! Can't wait to see more pics.

VA_Dinger
02-22-11, 05:55
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/007.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/008.jpg

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VA_Dinger
02-22-11, 05:57
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/039.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/038.jpg


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VA_Dinger
02-22-11, 08:32
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/036.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/038.jpg

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theblackknight
02-22-11, 11:26
Is the Humbler/700 the same as the Hackathorn??

ghettomedic
02-22-11, 11:33
Hackathorn Standards
Course Designer: Ken Hackathorn
Source: Larry Vickers (former CAG Lead Firearms Instructor)

300 Points 60 Rounds No Make Up Shots
IPSC Target:
A = 5 C = 3 D = 2 Entire Head = 5
All stages start holstered unless otherwise noted.
250+ Expert
200-249 Acceptable
Below 200 Needs Improvement

Notes:
Originally designed for IPSC targets; IDPA target are slightly more difficult (smaller 5 zone).
Highest Score Ever: Larry Vickers 298
Highest First Time Score: Rob Leatham 290
Jerry Barnhart's First Time Score: 277

Overtime shots do not count for score

Targets: 3 IPSC, 1m spacing, staggered medium-high-low height

#1--5 yards--1 rd on each head from draw freestyle--3 sec
#2--5 yards--1 rd on each head strong hand--4 sec
#3--5 yards--1 rd on each body strong hand--3 sec
#4--5 yards--1 rd on each body strong hand--3 sec
#5--8 yards--2 rds on left target freestyle--2 sec
#6--8 yards--2 rds on center target freestyle--2 sec
#7--8 yards--2 rds on right target freestyle--2 sec
#8--10 yards--El Presidente; start facing uprange w/6 rds in gun, turn and draw, 2 rds each target, slide lock reload, 2 rds on each target--10 seconds
#9--10 yards--weak hand pickup; gun on ground, butt to strong side, start standing, strong hand in small of back, retrieve handgun, 1 rd on each target--5 sec
#10--12 to 8 yards--2 rds each target while moving forward from 12 yds--5 sec
#11--15 yards--transition drill; start with hands at shoulder level as if holding rifle, 1 rd on each target--4 sec
#12--20 yards--start standing; drop to prone, 2 rds on each target--10 sec
#13--25 yards--start behind barricade; 2 rds on each target standing, perform tactical reload under cover(retain/stow partial mag), 2 rds on each target kneeling--24 sec


"The Humbler" was presumably developed by LAV while in CAG:

It's all shot on an NRA B-8 target, the 25 yard pistol target as found here. The entire 70 round drill is shot at 25 yards for actual score.

Here is the break down by string.

1) 10 rounds freestyle from the ready - 10 mins

2) 5 rounds freestyle from the holster - 20 secs

3) 5 rounds freestyle from the holster - 20 secs

4) 5 rounds freestyle from the holster - 10 secs

5) 5 rounds freestyle from the holster - 10 secs

6) 5 rounds Strong Hand Only from the ready - 5 mins

7) 5 rounds Strong Hand Only from holster - 20 secs

8) 5 rounds Strong Hand Only from holster - 10 secs

9) 5 rounds Weak Hand Only from the ready - 5 mins

10) 5 rounds kneeling - 5 mins

11) 5 rounds kneeling - 20 secs (start standing, in the holster)

12) 5 rounds prone - 5 mins

13) 5 rounds prone - 20 sec (start standing, in the holster)

Max score is a 700.

VA_Dinger
02-22-11, 11:39
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/079.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/078.jpg

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chris914
02-22-11, 17:35
Pics of the Strike Mark target.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/x2011_02_19_9287_SMALL.jpg


http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/x2011_02_19_9293small.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/x2011_02_19_9341big.jpg

It is a really neat system. Thanks again to Yanne for bringing it out.

Jim D
02-22-11, 19:17
It was a pleasure meeting folks, and catching up with some old friends.

The morning of Day 2 rocked! Watching Larry grind away on some small parts was a hoot.

The classroom portion was jam-packed with info on what will stop a 1911 in its tracks, and how to keep it from happening.

I had a tougher time shooting the 1911 than I did my Glock. I shot a better score on the Humbler with my Glock than I could with a 1911. The 1911 was easy to shoot well, but that damn .45acp recoil just beat my ass up. Some folks might not think 250 rounds in a day is a lot to shoot, but my hands were feeling definitely feeling it, and people's targets started to reflect that fatigue by the end of TD1.

It was an awesome, info packed class that I'm really glad that I made...even though I'm not interested in carrying a 1911. I feel much more educated about these guns after taking this class, and I can tell that it was but a drop in the bucket of how much there is to know about 1911's. I hope the Armorers classes are offered soon, as I'd love to pickup where we left off on the technical stuff.

Here are some of my pics...

Trying to keep targets in place on TD1 - damn was it windy!!!:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/lav%201911%202011%20c2/IMG_0869.jpg

Cleaning Virginia out of my magazines after TD1:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/lav%201911%202011%20c2/IMG_0879.jpg

The recoil guide-rod pre LAV modification:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/lav%201911%202011%20c2/IMG_0896.jpg

What those edges can do to a buffer:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/lav%201911%202011%20c2/IMG_0889.jpg

The LAV grinding away:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/lav%201911%202011%20c2/IMG_0892.jpg

Post LAV grinding:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/lav%201911%202011%20c2/IMG_0891.jpg

Detail stripped (why some folks refer to this class as a Glock Appreciation Class):
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/lav%201911%202011%20c2/IMG_0882.jpg

Discussing barrel/frame fit:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/lav%201911%202011%20c2/IMG_0887.jpg

LAV schooling us on ejectors:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/lav%201911%202011%20c2/IMG_0881.jpg

My Humbler target:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/lav%201911%202011%20c2/IMG_0903.jpg

My target on the left, Paul's target on the right - that Colt Rail Gun was shootin'! (so was Paul ;) ):
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/lav%201911%202011%20c2/IMG_0870.jpg

Team drill time:
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/ww204/synergy303/lav%201911%202011%20c2/IMG_0873.jpg

All in all, awesome time, and a must for folks who want to run a 1911 as their "go to" pistol. I think a LOT of 1911 buyers would be well served to take this class prior to deciding what their next 1911 should be. Lots of honest advice given by one of the most knowledgeable 1911 shooters (and builders) on the planet.

VA_Dinger
02-22-11, 19:49
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/154.jpg

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Ranger325
02-23-11, 12:41
This was my first Vickers class - it was truly outstanding and I learned a ton! I don't have much to add to what others have already reported, but I especially liked the team drills, the Humbler, the opportunity to meet a great bunch of guys and of course the 'meat and potatos' of the class; LAVs disassembly & troubleshooting class.

Thanks to all for a great weekend!!

VA_Dinger
02-23-11, 14:18
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/vickers-tactical-logo.jpg

Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/va_dinger/logo.jpg

Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/181.jpg

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab25/greygroupcommunity/Vickers%201911%20Feb%202011/180.jpg

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zushwa
02-23-11, 15:18
It was great meeting everyone this weekend. Anytime I can listen to Larry it's a treat, but he was truly in his element. If you are a 1911 enthusiast this class MUST be on your list.

Please let me know if there is anything you guys need from me.

bigrobbierob
02-23-11, 23:08
Paul,

Did you guys get any video from this class?

Uglyguns
02-24-11, 14:44
Paul,

Did you guys get any video from this class?

No video :nono:

V/r
Uglyguns

WasatchAR
02-25-11, 08:18
Harness the power of the prehistoric dead bird.