View Full Version : Is a 6.8 spc worth it?
So I've been thinking about building a 6.8spc gun, but the biggest issue I have is that I have a hard time finding ammo and mags for it on a local level. My plan is on using it as a home/property defense weapon, and maybe use it for hunting. I understand it's a heavier bullet and therefore carrying more kinetic energy, but with the ammo not being cheap and I've yet to find it carried at any of my local stores, I'm wondering if this cal is really worth the extra dollar.
Oh, and I'm looking to build it with a LMT MRP upper, just a fyi.
It really depends on what you plan to do with it. I had a 16" and 12.5" 6.8 and they were allot of fun. In many ways I think it's a perfect patrol rifle caliber, or home defense caliber. For plinking at the range it doesn't really matter if your holes are .224 or .277 diameter.
I had originally adopted the caliber as a "do all" gun. The thinking was I was going to use it for hog hunting at some point but I never did so I sold it built another 5.56 AR.
I was considering a 300BLK for the same reasons (potential hunting) but for the 1 hog I may shoot every 3 years a 77gr 5.56 will be just as effective.
It depends on what you want the rifle for. If you just want to plink at the local range, probably not. There is no cheap equivalent to the cheap 55gr FMJ rounds you can find for a .223/5.56 rifle.
However, if you want a hunting or patrol/home defense rifle, then the 6.8 may be just your cup of tea. When you start comparing costs on 6.8 ammo to .223 or .308 rounds you would actually hunt with (such as Nosler Accubond or Barnes TSX,) the 6.8 compares closely with the .223 and is usually cheaper than .308. The same goes for Hornaday TAP for duty or home defence.
I am currently getting SSA 110gr ProHunter on various sales for $17-18 per box. SSA TSX rounds generally run in the mid $20 range, depending on whether you want 85, 95, or 110gr bullets. The Federal TSX rounds I got for my .308 and my kid's .270 ran around $40 per box, so the 6.8 is almost a bargain.
As for magazines, C-Products are a only little more expensive than 5.56 mags, in the $12-13 range. They have usually worked well for me. Now, if you want PRI or Barrett mags, then you are talking some bigger bucks, but about the same as HK asks for their AR mags.
Stormrider
02-23-11, 00:22
I looked at the 6.8 to use mostly as a hunting rifle. My son had a bad experience with the 5.56 so I decided to use a bigger gun. I compared the 6.8 and 6.5G and decided that 6.8 would be better for me. I bought a barrel/bolt/bolt carrier from Constructor and am now waiting on the other small parts I need.
So for me the answer is yes, it is worth it.
For shame. You ask if it's worth it and give us no idea of your purpose. And do you really have a hard time tracking down mags and ammo; I never did. A simple call to Palmetto and sha-zaam there it is. Why not be specific and honest and get a good thread going, or better yet, search for all the other ones about the exact same topic? Yes, I could guess and write experiences and scenarios, but you have to at least put a good foot forward. Just my 2 cents plus COLA.
O.K. It's a very good short distance hunting round and is much better all around than 5.56. If you are shooting so much that the ammo cost is prohibitive, then you might as well start reloading.
However based on what I see in your details, have you considered an LMT in 308?
End use is going to matter. and yes there are threads and threads that already cover this topic. but since I'm up anyway...
For me the answer turned out to be "no". and I say this because I do own a 6.8 upper that I have never fired. That tells me something. I have the upper, magazines, ammo, etc. and I've never fired the 6.8. Never had occasion to reach for it. Never went anywhere and thought "damn, I wish I had that 6.8 right now". never found a use for it at all.
Now, if I were a different kind of shooter, or had a different job, maybe that would be different.
If I were a hunter, that persisted in using the AR for some reason, I might like the 6.8 more.
If I were a long-range shooter, where quality 5.56 costs as much as like quality 6.8 ammo, I might like the 6.8 more.
If I were a cop, with some extra cash (is there such a thing?), I might buy a 6.8 upper to ride with in the car and outfit an identical 5.56 upper to train with.
6.8 spr - optimized for an SBR, good terminal effects
But it has a trajectory like a mortar beyone 300 yds.
My only AR so far is a 6.8. I love the damn thing but I hardly get to shoot it. Ammo costs too much, so with bills to pay I have to content myself with making it out to the range once a month.
Terminal performance of the 6.8 is definitely better than 5.56. The gain in weight and recoil is negligible. During one of my shooting sessions I let another shooter heft my AR and he commented on how light it is. (It does, however, make a much more satisfying boom than the light crack of the 5.56. :D That always gets people's attention at matches.)
If you want just one AR as a bedside gun and a hunting rifle, the 6.8 will fit the bill. But if you want to train train train, you absolutely must get a 5.56 or 5.45 upper to go with it. It will pay for itself after just one carbine class.
For my next acquisition I'm going to do what I should have done a long time ago - pick up a 5.56.
If you have to ask the answer is no.
I think you have to like reloading and tweaking ammo or know you want the benefits of more power, more range or what ever for the nonstandard AR calibers to be worth it. They are just a bigger pain in the ass than 5.56. But I do like my Grendel it's been worth ever penny.
For what you want to do with it the 300 Blackout looks like something you should consider. Using 5.56 mags is a real plus.
However based on what I see in your details, have you considered an LMT in 308?[/QUOTE]
I've thought about a 308 platform, but weight is the one issue I worry about with any 308, and the last thing I want to do is lug around a 13 lb rifle; that may be fine for bench shooting, but I don't bench shoot. I'm a very big fan of the intermediate cartridge, as it will generally keep weapon weight down, which allows me to carry more ammo and keep my mobility, which is why I've been playing around with the idea of a 6.8 something that would give me that extra firepower and mobility. People can give the 5.56 all the gruff they want, but I can carry a lot more of it compared to the 7.62.
I guess like a lot of people, I'm just looking for the perfect cartridge in the perfect gun.
I went with the 6.8 because it is a good distance cartridge, and similar to the .308 out to 500 - without the weight and recoil. It was designed specifically to add 40% more power than 5.56, and be 200 fps faster than 7.62x39. It makes an AR all that it can be.
6.8 was deliberately fitted to the M4/M16 action - not the longer, heavier .308 platform that died with the M14. There are lots of .308 fans, but they never admit the first problem with the cartridge is power -the recoil is actually intimidating and slows the shooters reaction. It's the major reason it's been replaced by intermediate calibers. The few armies that use such calibers do so as a supplementary weapon by a few, not the majority of soldiers.
If you choose to use 6.8, it's very much about using it's unique power in the AR15 - to actually shoot live targets. For paper punching or competition events, 5.56 is economically better, but certainly has been questioned for it's results. In some states, it's simply not allowed. That's where the 6.8 shines - it only uses a different barrel, bolt, magazine, and ammo. .308? It's an entirely different gun. It's no longer a matter of what to shoot in an AR15, it's what AR10 you get to pay another $1000 to purchase. Few are even close to the same price of an AR15. Most are compatible with each other or the AR15.
If you've hunted for decades with the .308, you know most shots in woodland won't ever take advantage of it's reputed long distance power - which often doesn't come in commercial hunting loads. That ammo isn't milsurp cheap, either, but hunters know it's not about blasting thousands of rounds in the dirt. 5.56 is cheap for that. So is .22. 6.8 is simply run of the mill in price, like the two boxes I bought at Academy last week, $17.99 each. .30-30 Leverevolution was $24.99. Premium hunting and target ammo is not ever cheap, and it's misleading to compare it to military surplus.
As for getting it at the local Boxmart, 5.56 was hard to find in the '70s, and M16 mags never on the shelf, either. That's very much different these days, you actually find M4geries and such in the rack. If 6.8 is a little hard to find, it's because the average brick and mortar shop owner selling to his tradition bound customer hasn't learned about it yet. That's not a bad thing, like owning one of the first .30-30's out before 1900.
Of course, the Krag Jorgensen shooters don't much like it, it's just more handwriting on the wall.
I'm 'that guy' that Rob S alluded to above, the cop who trains with a 5.56 but has a 6.8 as a 'go to' weapon.
I won't redundantly re-state what others have about the merits of the 6.8, but if you already have a 5.56 upper,mags and ammo, then yeah, use them as a main training caliber with the 6.8 as 'the' gun. It's a great AR caliber. FWIW, I reload all of my 5.56 and 6.8 training rounds, so it's very affordable to shoot. If you have the money for one, go for it.
Pat
I'm 'that guy' that Rob S alluded to above, the cop who trains with a 5.56 but has a 6.8 as a 'go to' weapon.
I won't redundantly re-state what others have about the merits of the 6.8, but if you already have a 5.56 upper,mags and ammo, then yeah, use them as a main training caliber with the 6.8 as 'the' gun. It's a great AR caliber. FWIW, I reload all of my 5.56 and 6.8 training rounds, so it's very affordable to shoot. If you have the money for one, go for it.
Pat
I am working toward this as well. I've been carrying the 5.56 on duty for about 4 years now, but I'm thinking about building an identical upper in 6.8 and getting some mags to try out. If I ever have to shoot through an intermediate barrer (i.e. windshield, car door, trunk, windows, etc.) I would much rather be throwing a 110 grain bonded bullet than a 62 grain one (what I have now).
Just ordered my LMT MRP, in 6.8spc, and also got a 556 kit to go with it. Well there goes my tax refund... thanks guys. Tirod; also your post really helped me with my conundrum, kudos to you. I will be putting pictures up as soon as I get it and put it on a lower. I also know what I am going to my next carbine class with..thanks again to everyone:D
I am in the middle of building a mixed use, primarily hunting rifle for WT deer we can hunt with a .223 in Georgia. I reload and the choice is a Noveske 18 inch LW Mod 0 barrel to cast the 62 grain TSX at about 3000 FPS or their 18 inch SPR 6.8 barrel with 1-12 twist to shoot the 110TSX at about 2700 FPS. The BC of the bullets .287 for the 223 and .323 for the .277 are enough different that there is only 1 inch of drop distance at 300 yards which is as far as I feel comfortable shooting at a living animal. It is a tough decision as the 6.8 is the most logical from a pure killing perspective, yet the special bolt, magazine, AR's that fling costly brass into the next county, availability of cheap mil surplus .223 ammunition requirement for two upper if you want both choices make this a difficult choice.
The best "THEORETICAL" answer that I have seen is that quick barrel change nut by M & A parts. Buy one upper, one scope, two barrels, two bolts. So far I know nothing about this but am going to speak to Noveske about it.
all that said there is not a deer in GA that will not die when hit in the front half by a 62 grain TSX! Please don't tell me anything about what kills and what does not as I am one of the so called "Fudds" with 42 years of hunting and shooting experience and have seen animals run up to 100 yards when hit squarely in the chest/heart/lung with anything up to a .308/180 at 3000 FPS. It all "just depends".
Lots of hunters fling expensive brass in the leaves, simply because it's part of the cost. What's a few empty cases in a day of hunting?
1000 over the course of a weekend, I'd flinch regardless of what caliber. It's expensive, period.
6.8 is all about 40% more power delivered on live targets at hunting ranges, all in the same easy to carry package the .223 comes in. It delivers - with less risk of losing an animal, losing too much energy from a short barrel, or losing your humor hoisting a 12 pound .30 cal over rough ground. It makes the 6.8 the working legal choice in some states. Since any larger caliber is likely to reduce cripples and lost game, I saw it as an improvement. We're all looking for that one gun in just the right caliber.
The only caliber I've seen that was likely to put down an animal DRT was usually 8mm, Mauser or Rem Mag. Funny, nobody talks those up anymore. I guess the brass just got too expensive.:D
Yes, it is worth it. It was devoloped specifically for the M4 and its short comings of the lost energy of the shorter barrel. For that use, yes, it is worth it.
There are a few threads on the site here and there, and it should be pointed out that there is more than one chamber. Much like .223 and 5.56. The original design is not what Remington submitted to SAAMI. They dropped the ball, period. Anybody looking to get one needs to make sure it is a SPC II or better barrell.
I'm wondering if this cal is really worth the extra dollar.
For hunting... where you're using very low volumes of ammo? Maybe.
Other than that..... the cartrige is useless.
Other than that..... the cartrige is useless.
Then why does SF use it?
Then why does SF use it?
Let's assume for a moment that they do (I'd like to see documentation that they do, and how, but that's probably a bit much to ask)...
If they do, they aren't paying for it individually for one thing. For another, they actually would have a need perceived need for greater energy downrange than the average paper, cardboard, or steel target.
"Other than that..... the cartrige is useless."
I must respectfully disagree. If an AR15 is used for duty, self-defense, or hunting, then 6.8 mm is an extremely versatile and effective cartridge--it is at least as accurate as 5.56 mm, works better in short barrels than 5.56 mm, creates substantially larger wounds than 5.56 mm, and defeats intermediate barriers better than 5.56 mm.
For punching paper, going to training classes, or for folks who get free 5.56 mm ammunition at work, then 6.8 mm is probably not a viable option due to ammunition costs...
Based on what I've read around the interwebs there is value in 6.8 SPC or any of the newer AR family of cartridges. However, there isn't, nor ever will be, a universal "1-size-fits-all" cartridge.
So the big question is actually back to the OP. What is it worth to you in terms of improved ballistics? If you want the best ballistics, get a 50BMG upper (they exist in single shot capacity I beleive, or did when I first started around 12 years ago).
You want most capacity? Get a pistol or 22 AR variant! You want a tradeoff of capacity vs power? Look in the 5.56 "family" of AR cartridges.
Want long distance performance?
6.5 Grendel, 7.62 Nato, 300 WIn Mag.
But only you can really answer what your needs are. There are some real benefits and costs with going to 6.8. But that's a decision you can make with your cash, we can probably only tell what the costs and benefits are. Some will think it is worth it, some won't. In the end, you have to answer only to yourself.
Supergrade
03-16-11, 14:08
I went through the same process and decided to go with the grendel due to better ballistics compared to the 6.8. The problem I was warned about was lack of ammo for the grendel. I've yet to have problems getting ammo
Let's assume for a moment that they do (I'd like to see documentation that they do, and how, but that's probably a bit much to ask)...
If they do, they aren't paying for it individually for one thing. For another, they actually would have a need perceived need for greater energy downrange than the average paper, cardboard, or steel target.
They helped design it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_mm_Remington_SPC
They helped design it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_mm_Remington_SPC
He said "use".
Let's assume for a moment that they do (I'd like to see documentation that they do, and how, but that's probably a bit much to ask)...
If they do, they aren't paying for it individually for one thing. For another, they actually would have a need perceived need for greater energy downrange than the average paper, cardboard, or steel target.
That is exactly it. You have read the devolpment, right? The M4 isn't the best at long distance with the M855, aka green tip.
As for requisition, it isn't like SF would say what they ask for. But somebody is buying it.
And the 6.5 Grendel is inferior. It excels in one area, and it isn't an area the 6.8 was made for. The 6.8 is better out of a 16 inch barrel or shorter than the 6.5. The 6.5 was looked at. The 7mm was looked at. The 6.5 has that good ballistic profile, the 7mm hits harder. The 6.8 is the best compromise. Just like the original 270 that didn't get adopted because the 30.06 needed to get used up.
I appreciate the civil discourse on what seems to be a somewhat controversial topic.
I'd rather have 125gr .300 blackout.
Normal AR15 bolt and magazines.
I can gun Colt bolts and not have to worry about the substandard metallurgy in aftermarket stuff.
I don't have to pay $35 a magazine and worry about another AWB ban taking the limited supply of 6.8 mags away.
I get equal ballistics with .300 blackout under 200 yards when compared to 6.8.
I have the ability to have subsonic suppressed.
Like rob said, I have never thought I needed 6.8 in the spark of a moment.
I have other rifles to go hunting with.
I'd rather have 125gr .300 blackout. Well, we aren't talking about that. But for discussion sake, ok. It's the new kid on the block, and maybe in a few years, it will be as widely available, too. Right now, not so much. Less than 6.5G.
Normal AR15 bolt and magazines. Right, an advantage. Still need a different barrel, tho.
I can gun Colt bolts and not have to worry about the substandard metallurgy in aftermarket stuff. More likely in 5.56, the 6.8 bolt I have is an ITS. They aren't junk.
I don't have to pay $35 a magazine and worry about another AWB ban taking the limited supply of 6.8 mags away. Speculative, I don't live in fear. D&H is coming out with mags April/May in the $25 range. Announced at SHOT, BCM waiting to nail down the details. 6.8 shooters only seem to need a few, not a footlocker full.
I get equal ballistics with .300 blackout under 200 yards when compared to 6.8. OK if that's your preference, some want to reach out to 500m. 6.8 does.
I have the ability to have subsonic suppressed. The 6.8 was designed to be 200fps faster than the 7.62x39, and 40% more powerful than 5.56. Running subsonic suppressed isn't what combat carbines are about. That's a much more limited CQB role.
Like rob said, I have never thought I needed 6.8 in the spark of a moment. Actually, I thought about it for a few months, and realized it fit most of what I wanted a hunting rifle to do. It shouldn't be an impulsive choice.
I have other rifles to go hunting with. I have other rifles, too, and they aren't so great after lugging them around for years. Different people favor different qualities in their firearms.
Frankly, nobody has to like a caliber,, ask the .308 fans from the '70s who prevented the .300 Whisper wildcats getting into matches. It didn't stop them, time moves on, and people make new decisions. Even the AMU switched to M16's, and what do you know, that's what wins matches today.
A caliber is just part of how to set up a tool to be used, like matching a socket to a bolt head. 6.8SPC fits in pretty good used on live targets, as it was designed and intended. That's what many shooters choose it for.
D&H magazines are not up to the same standards as Okay, New Haven, Colt mags.
And some people think Colt builds junk. For a 6.8, a $25 mag for hunting does just fine.
D&H is issue, plenty of users seek them out deliberately. I'll worry about it if one actually gives me trouble. Right now, Cproducts isn't the prime candidate in 6.8, and look like they may lose some market share.
If I wanted good 5.56 mags, I'd use Pmags, not a GI.
You keep coming back to this "for hunting". That's it? and that's the cop-out answer everytime a potential issue with the caliber is brought up is that "oh well it's good enough for hunting"?
Don't get me wrong, I like shooting pigs with my AR, and would be into shooting other food-critters with it too if the opportunity presented itself, but frankly for the dedicated hunter I don't get the AR-as-hunting-rifle thing, and in some ways I think that niche has been detrimental to the 6.8 as a whole. Much like the light geeks have been detrimental to the "tactical light" market. 6.8 makers keep responding to the squeakiest wheel, which is the "hunting" community and so things like load development keep going that way to appeal to that market. The ammo makers would rather address a known, if tiny, market than try to churn out some cheap training ammo and expand their market.
and, like it or not, this is why 300 BLK is likely to succeed where the 6.8 hasn't. Less parts to change, cheaper ammo, wider variety of applications within the limits of where most users operate. I don't mean to get too much into a comparison between the two, but the 30BLK (at least on paper) makes exponentially more sense for all but a very few 6.8 shooters, and potential shooters.
Imagine, if you will, an ACR-type rifle with barrel changes that quick, and with the negatives of that platform addressed, where one can go from 5.56 for training and plinking to 300BLK for uses where heavier bullets are beneficial. Christ you could have an integrally suppressed barrel for the thing and change it out in a matter of seconds.
IMHO the 6.8, generally speaking, is a niche caliber gone bad, set on a false start, and then railroaded by a niche market. Which is fine. I don't have to own one (even though I do), and I bear it no ill-will or those that worship at it's alter. I see the 6.8 crowd and the 6.5 crowd as Sunni and Shi'ite: both part of a screwball religion that I'm happy to see fight with each other as I don't really care about either one and the more time they spend fighting with each other the less I have to hear from either. :sarcastic:
ETA:
that said, and as posted earlier, if I were a cop and could get authorized for it, I would already own two identical guns: one in 5.56 for training and one n 6.8 for work. I see a definite application for more energy downrange along with a higher volume and rate of fire potential given that application. but I'd still be watching the development of the 300BLK REAL close with an eye towards replacing the 6.8 in a year or so if the 300BLK works the kinks out and load development lives up to the promise.
And some people think Colt builds junk. For a 6.8, a $25 mag for hunting does just fine.
D&H is issue, plenty of users seek them out deliberately. I'll worry about it if one actually gives me trouble. Right now, Cproducts isn't the prime candidate in 6.8, and look like they may lose some market share.
If I wanted good 5.56 mags, I'd use Pmags, not a GI.
DH mags have sloppy welds and bends and are not made to the same level as OEM Okay, New Haven, and Colt.
You keep coming back to this "for hunting". That's it? and that's the cop-out answer everytime a potential issue with the caliber is brought up is that "oh well it's good enough for hunting"?
Don't get me wrong, I like shooting pigs with my AR, and would be into shooting other food-critters with it too if the opportunity presented itself, but frankly for the dedicated hunter I don't get the AR-as-hunting-rifle thing, and in some ways I think that niche has been detrimental to the 6.8 as a whole. Much like the light geeks have been detrimental to the "tactical light" market. 6.8 makers keep responding to the squeakiest wheel, which is the "hunting" community and so things like load development keep going that way to appeal to that market. The ammo makers would rather address a known, if tiny, market than try to churn out some cheap training ammo and expand their market.
and, like it or not, this is why 300 BLK is likely to succeed where the 6.8 hasn't.
I lost three hogs with the 75gr 5.56 this last friday...hits felt good but they are tough critters and really hard to head shoot in a large group as they scurry quite a bit when competing for the chum. Now this was done under moonlite and distance was about 200yds. Shooting suppressed so the thud and squeels confirmed hits. Our brush is too thick to go chase them and we have orders to shoot on site anyway. I just wanna see the critter dead & try to get pics.
I'm the geek wanting the 12.5" sbr 6.8 for hunting...not saying I would not use it as my primary rifle for protection as well, but I 'get' where you are going when we mention hunting on M4. I understand it's a combat site but I can take some of this over to my even darker side.
Now we hunters have the 300blk to consider but my gut tells me the 6.8 is the way to go since I think it is flatter out to 300-350 with the shorter bbls but need to study this more.
I think the AR suppressed SBR combines the best of what I need in a weapon for the conditions I hunt pigs in. The AR-10 is just too big and heavy & minimal recoil is a must when the scattering starts. Another plus for the 6.8 over the 300 BLK??
I'll continue with the 5.56 until I can figure all this out...plus, there are no funds for another can & upper anyway. Sorry my hunting applications keep getting tossed into the mix on many of these threads but this is the only AR site I visit. The others make my head hurt.
Frank Castle
03-22-11, 12:08
Rob- Why do you feel the need to contribute to a thread in which you have no first hand knowledge? You should have stopped at post #8. Get back to us after you make the time to get to the range with your 6.8 upper/ammo and subjectively evaluate the benefits/limitations of this platform and ammunition.
You keep coming back to this "for hunting". That's it?
What else is there? People or animals. Paper? That isn't a part of the topic. It is superior to the green tip.
I think that niche has been detrimental to the 6.8 as a whole.
Niche? The 6.8 is the number 2 caliber of the AR now. And mostly from the hog hunters from what I see.
Thankfully, I made my decision with a lot of simple research. Bogus claims like expensive ammo, mags, nobody buys it, can easily be checked and shown to be false. It is now the number 2 AR cartridge for a good reason. These arguments remind me of some car magazines back in the mid 80's declaring performance and hot rodding was over because fuel injection came in. Not only are they wrong, the opposite is ture.
I will take my 110 gr TSX at 2630 over 62 gr at 2800 no questions asked. Or for the subborn, an 85 gr TSX at 3000 feet per second compared to the smaller and slower greent tip.
is it the #2? I would have guessed it would be 308, but it would be just that, a guess.
Where does that number come from (I'm not doubting you, I'd really like to see a breakdown).
6.8 is not for everyone!
For me it is worth it due to the fact that I cannot use 22 cal guns for hunting unless it's for small game (state laws).
I use my 6.8 for hog and deer hunting. The AR is my favorite gun and as others have stated some of us must use an AR:D
It is not a plinking gun unless you have $ to burn, which I don't.
6.8 is my go to Predator weapon, and it doesn't matter how many legs they have either.
85gr Barnes TSX has been a great load for me, and I'll switch modes now with the 95gr TTSX load. Wilson combat is now loading the 95 TTSX to Spec II pressure:
http://shopwilsoncombat.com/68-SPC-95-gr-Barnes-TTSX-2850-FPS-16-Barrel-20_Box/productinfo/A68-95-TTSX/
I might get 2900fps out of that load in my 18 inch ARP barrel !!!!!!!! Me thinks that's a big step up from any 5.56 load, and my 6.8 is MUCH lighter than an AR-10T.
I'm glad we can have more than one rifle, out with friends blasting with a 5.56 AR is priceless(in the field, or 3 gunning it), putting the sneak on the Jack rabbets with a 10/22, that will never get old. Dropping the hammer on P-dogs in Wyoming where the wind always blows with an Heavy AR-10, pretty cool. I might try a 6.5G for paper punching, and p-dogs in the future. I'm also having a blast with the 300 Blackout, and have bagged many yotes with it, but even with a 125 BT, it's not 85gr Barnes TSX material in a 6.8, the 6.8 is good medicine for Predators.
Maybe in the future we'll see Higher BC bullets, GS and Elite are looking promising, and the new coated gun powders should yield more fps in the future.
It's funny though, I have lots more 5.56's than 6.8's in the safe,lol, and it's likely to stay that way, 5.56 ROCKs too.
Surplus military firearms are what made the American gun market what it is today. What has happened with the AR is that we have over 20 million soldier, sailors, airman, and Marines trained on it for over 45 years - and not one of them can buy one surplus.
And yet they all know for a fact their fathers and grandfathers got to buy them, shoot them, and hunt with them - and hunting is the only live target you can engage in.
Hunting hasn't hurt the AR at all, and the AR isn't going to hurt hunting, either. From the sporter 'O3's, Mausers, Enfields, Arisakas, and SKS's, we've had one type of gun that is affordable and can be used.
I started hunting deer when HK91's were $160 - and used one with a 1Gen Aimpoint in the 1970's. I wasn't about to use a lever action (all I do use now until the AR build is complete in the next few weeks.) The HK has significant advantages over a Rem 700 bolt gun, and I'll likely not go back to using that again. Point being, the advantages of a ergonomically laid out firearm that doesn't lose its sight picture during recoil and invites shooting it without flinching has as much to offer the hunter as it does a combat soldier.
I thoroughly expect the AR design to seriously influence hunting rifle design in the future - as either a direct semi auto rendition, or with the significant design features. The BLR already is using the multilug barrel extension, and Savage the barrel nut. A simple upper extrusion using a shortened bolt carrier and having a straight pull handle is entirely possible - and styled classically, would have the potential to sell quite well. Ask Blaser, who has simply evolutionized the design with a collet lock, instead of a turning bolt head.
I certainly don't excuse the cartridge as being "good enough for hunting." It wasn't even meant for it originally, it was specifically meant as a combat round with more power and range than 5.56, which means more lethality. That is proves to actually do that on deer and hogs is simply widespread anecdotal evidence that SF and the AMU knew their stuff. Combined, the 6.8SPC in the AR is, to me, a synergistic pairing that makes the whole better than the parts separately. That's coming from a guy who thought .308 was completely superior, and the Stoner design inferior, so much I put my money on other guns for the entire 22 years I was forced to suffer using the M16.
I found out I was entirely wrong about the gun - and the 6.8SPC is about as well placed right now as anything. With millions of prior servicemen and women now approaching a time when they want to own their generation's combat rifle, the AR is and will be in great demand, and using it humanely on game animals is the biggest application that every generation has used their battle rifle.
It's not meant to be a cheap paper punching round, circumstances have not conspired to make that happen, any more than dozens of other almost - became - military - issue calibers. But in the restricted atmosphere of game laws, NFA regulations, and the complete loss of the sales of M16's to the public, this generation can at least accomplish much of what it is wanting to do: own their issue weapon, and shoot it in the open field.
Hunting with the AR isn't the exception, it's actually conforming to exactly what previous generations did with their combat rifles, and you can be guaranteed their were those who clucked their tongues and disapproved of it as "not being proper."
Like Jim Zumbo - who shot the military surplus guns of his day, too.
That is one nice post, Tirod. For those who are shooting .243, 7.62x39, .30-30, or even heavy .223s, I agree the 6.8spc is a fantastic alternative. Other than the combat alternative to 5.56, for which it is undoubtedly superior, it makes a great starter or short range hunting piece. Without sidetracking too far, it is fair to welcome other similar calibers, including the .300BLK in this regard.
However, it is equally fair not to allow newcomers to persist in the allusion that these AR-15 platform-bound calibers are a substitute for the .308 level, when that is desired/required. Thinking particularly of longer reach, bigger game, or defeating barriers. Likewise, you don't choose the .308 if the .300WM or larger is indicated by the purpose, and so on. Right tool for the right job. Anything else is Kool-aid.
BDPatriot13
06-16-16, 07:13
One of it's less-than-desirable points in my book is the parent case is the .30 Remington. Now they have the .277 wolverine which, like the .300BLK, has the .223 remington as the parent case
constructor
06-17-16, 08:51
One of it's less-than-desirable points in my book is the parent case is the .30 Remington. Now they have the .277 wolverine which, like the .300BLK, has the .223 remington as the parent case The 277 WLV is 150-200fps slower than a 6.8 depending on the bullet weight. It doesn't push 110-130gr bullets very fast. You can buy 6.8 ammo off the shelf, why do the extra work with a wildcat to get worse performance.
There has been more 6.8 cases made than there ever was 30 Remington cases. Pretty sure Remington and jamison were the only 2 that ever made 30 remington. Federal, Hornady, S&B, Remington, SSA, Nosler and PPU all make 6.8 brass.
I'll start by listing real hunting bullets up to 130gr since that should be the limit for cartridges with a capacity of this size.- http://68forums.com/forums/showthrea...-BC-amp-Length
80grHV GS Customs
85gr Barnes MPG
85gr Barnes TSX
85gr Nosler E Tip
90gr Speer TNT
90gr Sierra varminter
90gr Gold Dot
95gr Barnes TTSX
99gr HV GS Customs
100gr Nosler Accubond
100 Speer Hp
100 Hornady SP
100gr Hornady GMX
100gr Rem SP
110gr Nosler Accubond
110gr Hornady Vmax
110gr Barnes TSX
110gr Barnes TTSX
110gr Sierra Prohunter
115gr Fed Fusion
115gr Rem Corelokt
120gr Hornady SST
130gr Speer Hotcor
130 Rem corelokt
130gr Sierra SPBT
130 Federal Fusion
AMMO-
Hornady
120gr SST
110 Vmax
100gr GMX
110 HPBT
110 HPBT-American Gunner
Federal
115 Fusion
115 Fusion American Eagle
90gr Fusion
90gr XM68
PPU
115gr HPBT
115gr fmj
Remington
115gr UMC
115gr
115gr OTM
SSA/Nosler
85TSX
85gr RRLP
85gr Etip
90gr Bonded
95TTSX
100 Accubond
110 Softpoint
110TSX
110 Prohunter
110 accubond
115gr OTM
S&B
110gr tipped(Vmax)
115gr fmj
90gr Bonded
Corbon
115gr BTHP-SMK
I'm not a big hunter but a few years ago my son's and I went pig hunting in central Fla. All 3 of us used 6.8 ARs. We killed 4 big wild pigs with 5 6.8 rounds. It would have been 4 for 4 but one was running and the first round hit him pretty far back so a follow-up was needed. I'm a believer.
40047
BDPatriot13
06-17-16, 11:49
There has been more 6.8 cases made than there ever was 30 Remington cases. Pretty sure Remington and jamison were the only 2 that ever made 30 remington. Federal, Hornady, S&B, Remington, SSA, Nosler and PPU all make 6.8 brass.
I understand they just take .30 Remington brass and cut/resize it then sell it as SPCII? I'm not into reloading yet so this is new ha
HelloLarry
06-17-16, 14:41
I understand they just take .30 Remington brass and cut/resize it then sell it as SPCII? I'm not into reloading yet so this is new ha
No.
6.8 brass is actually thicker in the web area and has less capacity than genuine .30 Remington.
ExplorinInTheWoods
06-17-16, 23:40
What a 6.8 does a .308 does better. B
What a 6.8 does a .308 does better. B
http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/anim_lol.gif
Oh, and BTW, DocGKR's office is that a way.
ColtSeavers
06-18-16, 10:32
What a 6.8 does a .308 does better. B
What a .308 does a .300 WinMag does better. Etc, ad nausea.
Ego driven argument aside, it's up to the individual to realistically list their goals/criteria honestly and compare chamberings and/or calibers to those to find the best match.
For example, want to stay withing the AR 15 platform/family/pattern of rifles? .308 is out instantly.
Does that mean .308 sucks and 6.8SPC is the best? No, it simply means that 6.8SPC better fits that goal/criteria better than the .308.
ETA: And, like a n00b, I just realized thread is from 2011...
constructor
06-18-16, 22:04
I understand they just take .30 Remington brass and cut/resize it then sell it as SPCII? I'm not into reloading yet so this is new ha
No. They don't make 30 Remington brass that was dead 40 years ago and then reshape it as 6.8 brass.
Pushbutton2
06-19-16, 19:56
What a .308 does a .300 WinMag does better. Etc, ad nausea.
Ego driven argument aside, it's up to the individual to realistically list their goals/criteria honestly and compare chamberings and/or calibers to those to find the best match.
For example, want to stay withing the AR 15 platform/family/pattern of rifles? .308 is out instantly.
Does that mean .308 sucks and 6.8SPC is the best? No, it simply means that 6.8SPC better fits that goal/criteria better than the .308.
ETA: And, like a n00b, I just realized thread is from 2011...
That just means we have 5 more years of experience with the cartridge [emoji846]
daddyusmaximus
06-19-16, 22:33
What can the 6.8 do that the .300 BLK not do. The Blackout seems to have been more commercially successful.
I got into 6.8 rather heavily about five years ago. Ended up selling the rifle and all components and ,add the jump to .330 BO. For shooting beyond about 200m I use a 5.56 or a .308 Win
constructor
06-20-16, 08:17
What can the 6.8 do that the .300 BLK not do. The Blackout seems to have been more commercially successful.
Shoot a 110gr bullet at 2550fps out of a 16" barrel, the 300 is apx 200fps slower.
What can the 6.8 do that the .300 BLK not do. The Blackout seems to have been more commercially successful.
Obliterate coyotes off my back deck at 300. I've got a 300blk that I love for being very small and very quiet but it's kinda like lobbing artillery rounds at that range.
TacMedic556
06-20-16, 11:28
What can the 6.8 do that the .300 BLK not do. The Blackout seems to have been more commercially successful.
From what I have seen and personally experienced, and will hopefully answer your question - 6.8 SPC II can perform with more accuracy at greater distance than the .300 BLK. .300 from what I have been informed by those who know more than I do on these subjects, was designed to operate in SBR, preferably suppressed, for CQB. The bullet, shoulder and neck on .300 does not lend itself well to very accurate platforms. This is not saying it is inaccurate, it is just that there are more accurate options. There is a very experienced and well known precision rifle smith, who told me a story of a client with more money than humility or receptiveness to outside input, and demanded a .300 BLK bolt gun, built in precision fashion. I cannot recall the details of barrel length and so on, however I did see the rifle one time. The situation turned interesting because the client was upset that he could not get it to perform the way he desired. He was placing expectations on the caliber that the caliber was not capable of reaching and there had to be some stern teaching and learning from the rifle maker.
I personally went 6.8 SPC after seeing it perform in the application of hunting. After walking alongside one last season that a friend owns and seeing it drop game, I decided I would like a 6.8 SPC to take deer and antelope.
daddyusmaximus
06-20-16, 12:18
Shoot a 110gr bullet at 2550fps out of a 16" barrel, the 300 is apx 200fps slower.
OK, I'm thinking about SBRs.
For rifles 16" and up, I just use my 5.56. I'm shooting out past 300 or 400m, (rare) I jump to the .308. I also like the fact that the .300 uses all the same parts (except barrel) and mags as the 5.56. Also the bullet is a bit bigger diameter in the Blackout so it probably equals out at the short ranges you shoot a SBR. One other thing, I've never seen 6.8 ammo anywhere in my area, except online. Perhaps if I lived near a bigger town it would be different, but even here in rural farming areas, the .300 has caught on enough to be at Wal-Mart and the LGS.
ColtSeavers
06-20-16, 15:34
OK, I'm thinking about SBRs.
For rifles 16" and up, I just use my 5.56. I'm shooting out past 300 or 400m, (rare) I jump to the .308. I also like the fact that the .300 uses all the same parts (except barrel) and mags as the 5.56. Also the bullet is a bit bigger diameter in the Blackout so it probably equals out at the short ranges you shoot a SBR. One other thing, I've never seen 6.8 ammo anywhere in my area, except online. Perhaps if I lived near a bigger town it would be different, but even here in rural farming areas, the .300 has caught on enough to be at Wal-Mart and the LGS.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?183801-Would-6-8-spc-spc2-have-been-even-more-popular-if&p=2320741#post2320741
daddyusmaximus
06-20-16, 19:23
That thread was already closed when I first saw it.^^^^
MajorLonghorn
06-25-16, 20:41
My 308 is a LMT MWS with a 20" barrel. Needless to say, scoped and fully loaded, it is far too heavy to hunt with and way to big for HD. That is why my hog gun is a Six8 with a 16" barrel and my HD gun is a Six8 SBR with a suppressor. My 5.56 guns are either 14.5" pinned or 16", but they're basically fun guns. Under 300 yards, 6.8 SPC is hard to beat.
floridajpr@mail.com
07-09-16, 10:44
Then why is the 6.8 the second most popular round for the AR15 platform with the 5.56/.223 being number one? The 6.8 is the most popular round for the AR15 platform that is used for Deer & Hog hunting which makes it a very good contender in the AR15 market. Sorry 300 Blackout!
Then why is the 6.8 the second most popular round for the AR15 platform with the 5.56/.223 being number one? The 6.8 is the most popular round for the AR15 platform that is used for Deer & Hog hunting which makes it a very good contender in the AR15 market. Sorry 300 Blackout!
I thought it was more or less dead at this point. I see hardly as much talk about it as there was 8 years ago.
My 308 is a LMT MWS with a 20" barrel. Needless to say, scoped and fully loaded, it is far too heavy to hunt with and way to big for HD. That is why my hog gun is a Six8 with a 16" barrel and my HD gun is a Six8 SBR with a suppressor. My 5.56 guns are either 14.5" pinned or 16", but they're basically fun guns. Under 300 yards, 6.8 SPC is hard to beat.
Toss a new LW 16" barrel in your MWS and you will be amazed at how much lighter it is.
My 308 is a LMT MWS with a 20" barrel. Needless to say, scoped and fully loaded, it is far too heavy to hunt with and way to big for HD. That is why my hog gun is a Six8 with a 16" barrel and my HD gun is a Six8 SBR with a suppressor. My 5.56 guns are either 14.5" pinned or 16", but they're basically fun guns. Under 300 yards, 6.8 SPC is hard to beat.
Most of the weight in the MWS is in the barrel. Have it reprofiled or get a LW barrel from LMT - it'll be on par with an AR-15.
That said, a MWS with factory 16" CL barrel is 9.8lbs; most AR-15's are 7-8lbs. Compared, the MWS is usually less than 2lbs heavier than an AR-15. Heavier, sure, but not that much heavier. Most bolt guns are heavier than that. I just don't see why people criticize the MWS for weight. 1.8lbs heavier isn't that much, there are optics that weigh more than that.
HighDesert
07-09-16, 23:29
Most of the weight in the MWS is in the barrel. Have it reprofiled or get a LW barrel from LMT - it'll be on par with an AR-15.
That said, a MWS with factory 16" CL barrel is 9.8lbs; most AR-15's are 7-8lbs. Compared, the MWS is usually less than 2lbs heavier than an AR-15. Heavier, sure, but not that much heavier. Most bolt guns are heavier than that. I just don't see why people criticize the MWS for weight. 1.8lbs heavier isn't that much, there are optics that weigh more than that.
1.8 lbs heavier isn't that much a difference????
Are you being serious?
1.8 lbs heavier isn't that much a difference????
Are you being serious?
1.8lbs is a very small amount of weight, objectively speaking. Arguing that 1.8lbs makes a rifle unusable is like saying that a 16.4lb rifle is amazing while a 18.2lb rifle is atrociously unwieldy - it's completely illogical to base heaviness off of relative weight differences. You have to look at the entire weapon's weight.
9.8lbs is not some unheard of amount of weight, and certainly older weapons were even heavier. My quad-railed Noveske recon weight 10.6lbs with optic. Objectively speaking, a sub-10lb rifle is not a very heavy rifle. It may not meet your preferences for an AR-based rifle, but it's not that heavy.
MajorLonghorn
07-10-16, 00:16
It is a significant amount in the case of an AR, and it is also closer to 3 lbs. I cannot think of a DI AR that clocks in at 8 lbs unloaded and without an optic. Modern builds are usually in the 6.5 lb range. I had an Aimpoint PRO with a QD mount on an SBR which replaced with a T1 on a QD mount. The difference was instantly noticeable. Removing the Saker 7.62 hanging off the muzzle also makes a difference in the balance and maneuverability of the weapon. On a rifle, 2-3 lbs amounts to 35-50% weight increase.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Is a .308 really worth having in a 16 inch barrel? Don't you lose a significant amount of velocity in a 16 inch barrel 308? A 6.8 shines in a 16 inch barrel and it's lighter than a .308 platform. 6.8 is not dead, it's got a pretty good following and there is plenty of ammo and parts out there, the only thing that sucks is ammo and mags are very expensive.
constructor
07-11-16, 08:12
Is a .308 really worth having in a 16 inch barrel? Don't you lose a significant amount of velocity in a 16 inch barrel 308? A 6.8 shines in a 16 inch barrel and it's lighter than a .308 platform. 6.8 is not dead, it's got a pretty good following and there is plenty of ammo and parts out there, the only thing that sucks is ammo and mags are very expensive.
The 308 does lose a bit of performance.
Mags and ammo aren't as expensive now, still more than 5.56 but better than it was. Fed XM68(good bonded 90gr), S&B and PPU when released can be $12-14. ASC and CPD mags cost under $20 and if you use LWRCs SiX8 platform you can use 6.8 Pmags.
constructor
07-11-16, 08:16
I thought it was more or less dead at this point. I see hardly as much talk about it as there was 8 years ago.
Not many talk about it here because this forum is more defense/duty/combat oriented. The 6.8 has a dedicated forum and most go there to get info.
Not many talk about it here because this forum is more defense/duty/combat oriented. The 6.8 has a dedicated forum and most go there to get info.
I must admit, this thread did spark my interest to begin looking at what's changed in the last 4.5 years since I've been "out of the loop". Looking into .308 ARs has me kind of disappointed. Chrome lined 20" barrels aren't too common anymore and most offerings are already in the 2500-4000 range which seems steep to have to change the barrel, rail, grip, stock, trigger on top of this cost. Down the line its something I'll still have to do for the long range aspect but not any time soon.
As far as 6.8 goes it looks like there are some nasty 90-95gr bullets now getting pushed around 2900fps from a 16" barrel which is intriguing. It does seem like there are few "quality" manufacturers offering complete rifles, though getting an upper only is an option (what kind of buffer weights are used in 6.8?). I guess that's part of the battle---choosing a chamber (many offerings it looks like) and a platform. The LWRC looks interesting as they say it was designed "ground up" around 6.8 which would bea good idea from a bolt/carrier, buffer, and upper receiver standpoint (stronger platform for stronger cartridge) but it seems the main goal was to run 6.8 Pmags. It is also a piston gun, a huge negative for me, and does not appear to be chrome lined and uses a proprietary lower receiver. I do like the lower though; all the ambi stuff is like a KAC lower.
I guess perhaps the best route would be to get an upper with everything but the rail and just use it with a existing lower. Then the main hurdle would just be the expensive PRI mags and components and the hassle of handloading. Factory ammo still looks to be scarce, expensive (though even 5.56 is not exactly cheap these days when the best deals on LC ammo are 350-380 per 900) and underpowered. A "dedicated 6.8 platform" sounded nice but I don't think that exists really. All this to punch slightly bigger holes in paper and play Quickload Commando but hey, some hobbies are highly addicting.
A 6.5mm based off this case or a similar sized case with a rifle built around it (larger magwell to seat the rounds out farther) sure would be something. If it could push the 12x gr bullets with .500 and better BCs 2700 or more I don't see how it couldn't catch on. 6mm or 6.5mm would have been the more natural progression IMO anyway instead of something as comparatively obscure as .277.
constructor
07-11-16, 10:16
I must admit, this thread did spark my interest to begin looking at what's changed in the last 4.5 years since I've been "out of the loop". Looking into .308 ARs has me kind of disappointed. Chrome lined 20" barrels aren't too common anymore and most offerings are already in the 2500-4000 range which seems steep to have to change the barrel, rail, grip, stock, trigger on top of this cost. Down the line its something I'll still have to do for the long range aspect but not any time soon.
As far as 6.8 goes it looks like there are some nasty 90-95gr bullets now getting pushed around 2900fps from a 16" barrel which is intriguing. It does seem like there are few "quality" manufacturers offering complete rifles, though getting an upper only is an option (what kind of buffer weights are used in 6.8?). I guess that's part of the battle---choosing a chamber (many offerings it looks like) and a platform. The LWRC looks interesting as they say it was designed "ground up" around 6.8 which would bea good idea from a bolt/carrier, buffer, and upper receiver standpoint (stronger platform for stronger cartridge) but it seems the main goal was to run 6.8 Pmags. It is also a piston gun, a huge negative for me, and does not appear to be chrome lined and uses a proprietary lower receiver. I do like the lower though; all the ambi stuff is like a KAC lower.
I guess perhaps the best route would be to get an upper with everything but the rail and just use it with a existing lower. Then the main hurdle would just be the expensive PRI mags and components and the hassle of handloading. Factory ammo still looks to be scarce, expensive (though even 5.56 is not exactly cheap these days when the best deals on LC ammo are 350-380 per 900) and underpowered. A "dedicated 6.8 platform" sounded nice but I don't think that exists really. All this to punch slightly bigger holes in paper and play Quickload Commando but hey, some hobbies are highly addicting.
A 6.5mm based off this case or a similar sized case with a rifle built around it (larger magwell to seat the rounds out farther) sure would be something. If it could push the 12x gr bullets with .500 and better BCs 2700 or more I don't see how it couldn't catch on. 6mm or 6.5mm would have been the more natural progression IMO anyway instead of something as comparatively obscure as .277.
The LWRC was designed for pmags because the Jordan or Saudi contracts wanted them. The carriers, bolts and all the rest are pretty normal AR15 parts.
You are right, no need for a 6.8 or 6.5 to poke holes in paper but for hog hunting they are tough to beat. We have a SIX5 wildcat based on the 6.8 case that does really good with 100gr bullets. The 100gr bullets really out perform the 123s out to around 500 which is farther than most take shots when hunting. 100gr bullets reach 2800 out of a 16" barrel.
The LWRC was designed for pmags because the Jordan or Saudi contracts wanted them. The carriers, bolts and all the rest are pretty normal AR15 parts.
You are right, no need for a 6.8 or 6.5 to poke holes in paper but for hog hunting they are tough to beat. We have a SIX5 wildcat based on the 6.8 case that does really good with 100gr bullets. The 100gr bullets really out perform the 123s out to around 500 which is farther than most take shots when hunting. 100gr bullets reach 2800 out of a 16" barrel.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the 100gr 6.5mm bullets performance. Even though their BC is just in the .380-.400 range (still much better than equivalent .277) velocity still is very important.
I have zero interest in hunting. I guess if the opportunity presented itself (as it has on my friend's land a few times) blasting a few pigs is fun but I don't own any land of my own to mess around on and the past time has become so popular instead of paying you to eradicate the pests now people charge you to kill pigs.
I just like to shoot, play with ballistics and loads, theorycraft, modify rifles, and obsess over what looks good "on paper" while preparing for SD scenarios that are 99.99999999% likely to never happen. I think an upper is something I want to do at some point.
Now that I'm settling back in and getting into old habits I still need to get results for a project I finished in late 2011 but never fired/got the results because I moved to a non-gun friendly state. When RL17 first came out I had great success with it in .308 loaded to 2.995" with the 208gr A-max. I mean caliber re-defining ballistics IMO. So I found pre-64 style M70 from right before they closed the doors and got a 30" heavy polygon-rifled barrel made for it along with a McMillan A-5 stock and custom bottom metal to allow use of .300WM mags. This lets me load the 208gr A-max to absurd lengths in .30-06--3.565" COAL since I sent a mocked-up round loaded at 3.580" to PTG for a custom reamer. With Norma MRP (some say this is R22, but "frists") QL says it is going to be ridiculous with 61-62gr. I've seen R22 results with this bullet and these powder ranges but always in shorter barrels. I see now I'm behind the times with this project---the heavy bullets have become more popular, there are more offerings, and even the 208gr A-max (which I have 2600 of) has been replaced.
These are the kinds of projects I love.
constructor
07-11-16, 11:40
I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the 100gr 6.5mm bullets performance. Even though their BC is just in the .380-.400 range (still much better than equivalent .277) velocity still is very important.
I have zero interest in hunting. I guess if the opportunity presented itself (as it has on my friend's land a few times) blasting a few pigs is fun but I don't own any land of my own to mess around on and the past time has become so popular instead of paying you to eradicate the pests now people charge you to kill pigs.
I just like to shoot, play with ballistics and loads, theorycraft, modify rifles, and obsess over what looks good "on paper" while preparing for SD scenarios that are 99.99999999% likely to never happen. I think an upper is something I want to do at some point.
Now that I'm settling back in and getting into old habits I still need to get results for a project I finished in late 2011 but never fired/got the results because I moved to a non-gun friendly state. When RL17 first came out I had great success with it in .308 loaded to 2.995" with the 208gr A-max. I mean caliber re-defining ballistics IMO. So I found pre-64 style M70 from right before they closed the doors and got a 30" heavy polygon-rifled barrel made for it along with a McMillan A-5 stock and custom bottom metal to allow use of .300WM mags. This lets me load the 208gr A-max to absurd lengths in .30-06--3.565" COAL since I sent a mocked-up round loaded at 3.580" to PTG for a custom reamer. With Norma MRP (some say this is R22, but "frists") QL says it is going to be ridiculous with 61-62gr. I've seen R22 results with this bullet and these powder ranges but always in shorter barrels. I see now I'm behind the times with this project---the heavy bullets have become more popular, there are more offerings, and even the 208gr A-max (which I have 2600 of) has been replaced.
These are the kinds of projects I love.
I like long range paper punching too but I stick to ARs now. Check the ballistics of a .224 80gr Berger(G1 .445) at 3000fps...20" barrel.
I have one based on the 6.8 case and another based on the Grendel case.
The 308 does lose a bit of performance.
Mags and ammo aren't as expensive now, still more than 5.56 but better than it was. Fed XM68(good bonded 90gr), S&B and PPU when released can be $12-14. ASC and CPD mags cost under $20 and if you use LWRCs SiX8 platform you can use 6.8 Pmags.
Thanks for the reply, I used one of your 6.8 scout barrels with the 5R rifling in my build, along with the superbolt. The reason I asked about the 16" 308 is because I saw one of those Colt AR901-16S rifles for sale at a decent price not too long ago, about $1300, I came so close to pulling the trigger on it, maybe I should have, but in the end I decided the 16" 6.8 was good and I didn't really have enough of a practical use for the 16" 308 to justify the cost of purchasing the rifle and investing in another type of ammo and mags. I have a decent stash of xm68gd and S&B 110 fmj, they both have performed reliably for me. I still need to work on my 6.8 mag collection though, only got a few Barretts and PRI's and some ASC's
HelloLarry
07-12-16, 07:42
Is a .308 really worth having in a 16 inch barrel?
If you don't mind a ton of muzzle blast.
If you don't mind a ton of muzzle blast.
I have heard that, but I was wondering more about the ballistics of .308 out of a 16 inch barrel.
I have heard that, but I was wondering more about the ballistics of .308 out of a 16 inch barrel.
I don't think its worth it, but that's MY opinion.
Apparently the consensus is otherwise because these days 20" barrels on .308 models are rare as ****. My first .308 was a muzzle braked (due to the AWB) 16.25" FN FAL. I think I was getting 2400fps from 168gr BTHP match rounds and all kinds of unnecessary blast. Not thanks. I've done 20-26 ever since, 20 and 21 on autos and 24-26 on bolt guns.
TacMedic556
07-22-16, 17:58
We have built a couple 6.8s. This rifle is my personal one. Took about a year to get all the parts and finish it this past week. Without even bore sighting it, the first shot taken was at 100 meters and struck 2" left. TWO INCHES? I have never had that happen to me with a non-bore sighted optic, let alone a bore sighted optic. Maybe its attributed to the Geissele Super Precision Mount and Vortex scope, married to a good free float barrel? It took 15 rounds total to dial into a 1 moa group off of a poor rest and in some winds. I am very excited to see what this setup can do when the barrel reaches its sweet spot.
Constructor - Any tips on a good load for this barrel? 1:11 twist 5R 16" midlength gas SPR profile 416R Stainless. I would like to see a 120-140 grain OTM or the like for hunting deer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_-LUmqLme4
This thread led me to get into the game as well. Found a "new old stock" ArmaLite from when they were making them. Has all my requirements except it is unknown if I will have to replace the carrier or not.
I'm going to be shooting for the 95gr TTSX @ 2900fps loads with either Re7 or Norma 200.
Cheapest factory ammo I can find for plinking is the 115gr FMJ AE load and it is at CTD of all places for abotu 13 and change per 20. ouch.
ColtSeavers
07-22-16, 19:13
This thread led me to get into the game as well. Found a "new old stock" ArmaLite from when they were making them. Has all my requirements except it is unknown if I will have to replace the carrier or not.
I'm going to be shooting for the 95gr TTSX @ 2900fps loads with either Re7 or Norma 200.
Cheapest factory ammo I can find for plinking is the 115gr FMJ AE load and it is at CTD of all places for abotu 13 and change per 20. ouch.
How old is that new stock? Make sure the chamber is actually Spec II if we're talking 10 years.
Wh0ring Palmetto State Armory for 6.8 ammo sales is a past time. 90gr Fed gold dots get super cheap among others.
How old is that new stock? Make sure the chamber is actually Spec II if we're talking 10 years.
Wh0ring Palmetto State Armory for 6.8 ammo sales is a past time. 90gr Fed gold dots get super cheap among others.
Its from 2 years ago. SPC II, 1:11, mil spec barrel steel. They even marked the uppers SPC II from '11-whenever they stopped making them.
ColtSeavers
07-22-16, 21:50
Its from 2 years ago. SPC II, 1:11, mil spec barrel steel. They even marked the uppers SPC II from '11-whenever they stopped making them.
Glad it's not 'that' old!
Out of curiosity, what is it about the carrier that you think you might have to replace it?
How old is that new stock? Make sure the chamber is actually Spec II if we're talking 10 years.
Wh0ring Palmetto State Armory for 6.8 ammo sales is a past time. 90gr Fed gold dots get super cheap among others.
psa is great for ammo, especially the daily deals. why yes I will take so le gold dot 556 for <50 cents a round shipped.
I've also gotten nearly my entire 68 stash there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Glad it's not 'that' old!
Out of curiosity, what is it about the carrier that you think you might have to replace it?
I am unsure about when they made the change to auto carriers. ArmaLite changed a lot of things from '09 and on in regards to barrel steel, twist rates, chambers, and on due to user demand. I've been unable to find anything definitive on what they came with during their production run from '11 to '14.
I will keep checking PSA but their current offerings don't look that great.
EDIT: Hadn't looked in a few days. Everything is out of stock!
My 6.8 rifle is my favorite rifle by far!
https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1453/24799793393_31a81915c0_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DMtqyH)
IMG_8142 (https://flic.kr/p/DMtqyH) by 556 Channel (HD) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/98338002@N04/), on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1447/25400351416_72e0ecca44_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/EGxrxo)
IMG_8147 (https://flic.kr/p/EGxrxo) by 556 Channel (HD) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/98338002@N04/), on Flickr
constructor
08-25-16, 13:42
This thread led me to get into the game as well. Found a "new old stock" ArmaLite from when they were making them. Has all my requirements except it is unknown if I will have to replace the carrier or not.
I'm going to be shooting for the 95gr TTSX @ 2900fps loads with either Re7 or Norma 200.
Cheapest factory ammo I can find for plinking is the 115gr FMJ AE load and it is at CTD of all places for abotu 13 and change per 20. ouch.
These guys are making some good bullets. A little expensive but perform great. https://makerbullets.com/products.php?cat=3&scri=4
Probably the best for pistols/sbr's. If I wanted a deadly short barrel rifle for any reason other than being as quiet as possible, it would be 6.8.
viper3colt
10-22-16, 02:53
Reloading 6.8 spc is only slightly more expensive than 5.56 after you get a supply of brass that is.
Pills to consider:
http://www.cavitybackbullets.com/category-s/100.htm
acnewman55
11-21-16, 14:21
For hunting applications, I've taken two mule deer with my 6.8
One with the 120 SST and the other with the 115 MSR Fusions - both factory loads. Bucks dropped at 15 and 50 yards.
SST had no exit wound and no blood trail.
Fusion had massive blood trail and exit wound. Sticking with the fusion going forward.
Fun round to shoot and impressed with the knockdown power so far.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Killed a LOT of deer and pigs with the 6.8 over the last 7 years or so..
My go to load right now is the 120 SST after using just about every factory ammo and bullet type in handloads out there.
acnewman55
11-21-16, 16:56
Killed a LOT of deer and pigs with the 6.8 over the last 7 years or so..
My go to load right now is the 120 SST after using just about every factory ammo and bullet type in handloads out there.
The SST seems to be the go-to load for many pig hunters.
It was definitely effective on deer for me, but the risk of injuring a buck that leaves no blood trail makes me uncomfortable. I don't hunt hogs but I don't know if I'd be as concerned about losing and injured hog.
Just my two cents.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
jethroUSMC
11-21-16, 17:09
Hogs are a heck of a lot tougher than a thin skinned deer - although a rutting buck can do some amazing things at times.
Unless you're hunting and pushing deer in the thick swamps blood trails are over rated IMO. But there are two lines of though, Exit wound for blood trail, and dump all of the energy INSIDE the animal. I'm of the latter opinion and prefer no exit. All but one deer or hog has dropped DRT to Hornady SST, AMAX and BTHP - yes shot placement counts but this is also from my experience on stationary and on running game from 25-200 yds. No headshots, only double lung, heart right behind the shoulder.
TacMedic556
11-25-16, 10:26
2016 Hunting harvest for two of us that hunt together with 6.8's:
2 Pronghorn Antelope
2 Deer (whitetail and a Muley)
1 Cow Elk.
Truly enjoy the hunting application of this cartridge.
diving dave
11-26-16, 10:11
Just shot a deer a couple days ago, pretty good size whitetail. Used a handload of Sierra 110 pro hunters and 24.0 grns H4198. Hit just above the heart, was a through and through both lungs. Ran about 40 yards and dropped. To be honest while it worked, the exit wound didnt look much bigger than the entry. I'm thinking at these velocities it didnt expand much.....Tac medic you took an elk with a 6.8? What load and results?
TacMedic556
11-27-16, 16:53
One of my good friends did. He did not plan on taking such a shot at distance, he intended on getting closer and it did not happen. The shot was 422 yards, 110 grain Sierra BTHP match. It was a large Cow. Perfect shot placement. He hit her once, a lethal shot, however she stood and would not move as the herd took off. He hit her once more, and she laid down. We do not intend on applying the 6.8 to elk again unless it is closer range and with 120-130 Berger VLD or perhaps Nosler Accubond. I took my elk with a .308. I just watched a bull drop 3 days ago that I spotted for a buddy and he took it with a 7mm Mag at 325 yards. Bull took two steps and fell over dead. Devastating shot on his right shoulder, piercing some bone in the shoulder, breaking a rib and liquifying the heart. I would like to get a 7mm Mag or 300 mag for sure.
Bumping this in hopes of more input.
Seriously considering a build I had put off for quite a while
I'm glad you bumped it. I would like to know if anything has really changed in ammo/components, general availability of parts, people's expiriences and so on.
"Seriously considering a build I had put off for quite a while." is where I am at as well.
Andy
I’ve got a 16in I built using a Daniel Defense 6.8 barre that brownells had on sale for $99 this past summer. Took 2 whitetail this year using Hornady 110gr Vmax. The first deer dropped DRT the second one ran about 30 yards before crashing down. Prior to this summer I had a 11.3in 6.8 pistol build due to Indiana’s assanine rules when it comes to hunting rifles. The 11.3in gun using the same ammo did the job just as wel!
Development highlights this year from Info on 6.8Forums:
PSA just had 90gr gold dot 6.8 ammo for $8/Box. Apparently Federal is bringing this back to Market.
The 224 Valkyrie uses 6.8 brass for reloaders to do both.
Cavity Back is bringing their own precision hunting round to market.
Buffalo Bore says they are bringing a higher velocity round to market this year since factory ammo is usually loaded underpowered.
constructor
01-07-18, 11:48
Development highlights this year from Info on 6.8Forums:
PSA just had 90gr gold dot 6.8 ammo for $8/Box. Apparently Federal is bringing this back to Market.
The 224 Valkyrie uses 6.8 brass for reloaders to do both.
Cavity Back is bringing their own precision hunting round to market.
Buffalo Bore says they are bringing a higher velocity round to market this year since factory ammo is usually loaded underpowered.
Brass or ammo available -Hornady, SSA/Nosler, S&B, PPU, Federal, Remington. Cavity Back bullets loaded in S&B brass.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.