CO - HB 1205 NO PERMIT CCW.

[Irish]

It looks like Colorado maybe following the trend and become the 4th state to allow it's citizens the right to conceal carry a firearm without paying a tax or needing the government's permission.

http://www.kdvr.com/news/politics/kdvr-concealedcarry-gun-measure-moves-on-20110224,0,577188.story

[Irish]

http://www.newsfirst5.com/news/gun-bill-drawing-lots-of-discussion/

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

This hasn't caused as much uproar as you migh tthink here. I doubt the mayor, ehr governor will sign it. Colorado's training is so thin already (as little as three hour class with no shooting) that we might as well have permitless CCW. As for the background check, who knows why those people got denied. To me, I don't mind making people sit down for a few hours and talk about the issues around CCW- my class was more about shoot/no-shoot and how to conduct yourself after an incident- not bad stuff to know.

Rather than permitless CCW, I'd rather they changed the law so that you had options beyond just pistols. We are limited to pistols for CCW. With SBRs and the great bags now available, it would be nice to have the option to have a bag like that, loaded with the rug-rats stuff and a nice KAC PDW.

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

As an instructor for Colorado CCW classes I'm not in favor of the new law. First, because I would like to keep getting students for my classes that want to get permits. But more importantly, do you know how many gun retards I have in my classes? A lot! Without a requirement for some training those same retards will be out there carrying a firearm without any training. For the love of all that is holy, most people need some training before they are unleashed on society with a firearm. I've found the most dangerous and ill prepared people are those that "think" they know what they are doing....

[Irish]

As an instructor for Colorado CCW classes I'm not in favor of the new law. First, because I would like to keep getting students for my classes that want to get permits.
You're the first person I've ever seen admit that, I like honesty.


But more importantly, do you know how many gun retards I have in my classes? A lot! Without a requirement for some training those same retards will be out there carrying a firearm without any training. For the love of all that is holy, most people need some training before they are unleashed on society with a firearm. I've found the most dangerous and ill prepared people are those that "think" they know what they are doing....

Vermont, Alaska and Arizona are all good examples of what happens when citizens are free to exercise their rights, absolutely nothing. I could be wrong but I don't think there's a single incident of a law abiding citizen doing anything out of the norm that's been reported since Arizona switched to no permit CC.

This isn't directed at you but I've taken CC classes in NV and UT and wasn't terribly impressed with either instructor, both were highly praised on different forums. Just because a person passes their instructor certification doesn't mean they should be teaching other people either. Many instructors pass on myths, lies and BS that they consider to be true.

I've witnessed on several occasions the fat dumbshit who owns the Gun Store in LV on the news telling flat out lies about concealed and open carry of weapons and he's constantly cited as an "expert" by the local news. However, I do understand your point.

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

This isn't directed at you but I've taken CC classes in NV and UT and wasn't terribly impressed with either instructor, both were highly praised on different forums. Just because a person passes their instructor certification doesn't mean they should be teaching other people either.

Yes some of them suck for sure. I would be okay with more stringent requirements for permits. At least a live fire requirement like UT. Unfortunately there would still be shit bag instructors out there. Not much I can do about that.

I know most gun owners would say that the 2nd Amendment is their right to carry. I'm more worried about the political ramifications of not requiring any training for those carrying on a daily basis. Yes, it looks like Vermont and Alaska have been good so far, but it only takes one shot toilet in a fast food joint to have a knee jerk reaction that will effect us all.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I had a good instructor, I almost didn't want to carry after the class. If the class doesn't scare the crap out of you about the possible financial and mental issues involved with having been in a shooting, they aren't doing their job.

If someone wants to CCW and has never been instructed in the legal issues and has never taken a class on gun handling, they are doing themselves a disservice. Even with taking part in rifle and 3-gun shoots, I still feel I need some kind of CCW tactics training.

[Irish]

At least a live fire requirement like UT.
There is no live fire requirement to obtain a Utah permit.


I'm more worried about the political ramifications of not requiring any training for those carrying on a daily basis. Yes, it looks like Vermont and Alaska have been good so far, but it only takes one shot toilet in a fast food joint to have a knee jerk reaction that will effect us all.
Concealed carry classes are not what I would consider training in the sense of the word that is used here at M4C. Typically they may cover legalities and some example situations you may find yourself in but that's not training in any sense of the word that I'm accustomed to.

Currently there are at least 5 states with no permit concealed carry up for vote. I hope every single one passes it! I'm not sure where you're going with the toilet analogy.

[QuietShootr]

With friends like this, who needs enemies. Jesus.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Being in Colorado, there are other issues I'd rather see them go after first.

Denver puts all the CCW people on a list that mostly includes bad guys so that when we get pulled over for traffic stops, the officer is warned- though he doesn't know if we are a person of interest or a CCW holder.

Denver has a goofy, and when I mean goofy it isn't worth the time to explain, AWB and we are limited to 20rounders.

I mentioned the CCW limited to handguns.

I'd much rather see some kind of law that makes CLEO NFA sign-offs a 'shall issue' than a 'no way in hell' affair.

Or more money for public ranges. Everytime a ad hoc range gets going in the National Forest, bozos screw it up and now you can't shoot in a big swath of the NF between Denver and the Springs.

That, and unless you have pictures of Hickenlooper naked with a live boy or a dead girl, there is no way he is going to sign it.

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

I'm not sure where you're going with the toilet analogy.

There was some a-hole not too long ago that shot a toilet in a McDonalds bathroom on accident trying to take a crap while we was dicking with his pocket carry gun... Clearly it didn't make national news...

[Irish]

The bill was shot down. http://www.ammoland.com/2011/03/24/constitutional-carry-dead-in-colorado/

[jwfuhrman]

Hell, Indiana all you have to do is fill out the paper work, get printed for a Background Check, mail your stuff in and 4-6 weeks later you get your Personal Protection permit.

Indiana isnt a Conceal Carry Permit. You have to have a Permit to carry period, doesn't matter how you carry as long as you have the permit.

Lifetime permit is $120 and a 4yr permit is $60.... you tell me which one to get....