View Full Version : Alaska gun recommendations
My room mate, a 28 year old girl, is going to Alaska with her family for an 8 day floating trip in July. She asked me to get her setup with a pistol to carry while shes up there. I am leaning towards either a S&W 629 4" or a Glock 20. I dont know if she can handle shooting 44mag, going to borrow a friends Taurus 44 and see how she does with it and some full power ammo. My only concern with going with 10mm over 44mag is even some of the powder puff 44mag loads I am seeing from Buffalo Bore are in the 1000ft.lb. area while the hottest 10mm load is only 700ft.lb. I think 10mm would be better than a .357 magnum, at least the gun would be easier to shoot, and ballistically they are very similar. I believe the guys that are going are going to be carrying rifles as well as pistols so I dont really think she will need to use this gun, but I want to equip her with something that will work if she needs to use it.
I have no experience with bear, but a friend that hunts and fishes in Alaska a lot has told me that if you have time to "get off a well aimed shot" you had time to run the hell away. He also said bear spray only pisses them off.
Hogsgunwild
02-26-11, 10:02
After shooting and reloading for the 10MM and .44 Magnum for over twenty years, my preference would be for even a moderate .44 Mag load in a three or even four inch barrel (steel gun). See what the hottest load that she is comfortable with and save your money by not giving her the Buffalo Bore stuff, at least in the beginning. She needs to be able to hit her target with what she is shooting.
Penetration means more on dangerous game so even a slower heavy .44 Mag would be substantially more effective, in my opinion.
Scandium frames are not for beginners but, like a life jacket, they carry well and the massive kick would probably not be noticed immediately prior to being mauled.
If the .44 just does not work for her at all, a Glock 20 is pretty easy to shoot and 15 rounds of 10MM is better than nothing.
I have owned the G20 and have a Colt 10MM but the gun that I would use as a back-up would by my 3" S&W unflutted Model 29.
I have shot the Smith Model 329 Scandium with .44 Magnums and Specials and that gun works great but is slower for follow-up shots and is not something that you can really practice with using hot loads (for very long), especially as a new shooter. Good luck.
By-the-way, if a 12 gauge is a doable option, it would eclipse the handguns altogether.
Avoidance is always the best policy when dealing with the large Alaskan bears. I carried a .44 Mag Ruger Blackhawk when I was up in Alaska on a mining venture, but that was over 30 years ago. I didn't run across any bears...only moose wandering through camp.
I believe .44 mag or a .45 Colt would be minimum caliber recommendations in a Smith & Wesson or Ruger revolver. I personally like the 629 Smith because of the stainless steel and also the Bisley Rugers for the grip.
Army Chief
02-26-11, 10:14
I think you've got the pistol selections covered, but in bear country, I know that I would feel much better with a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in .45-70.
Come to think of it, I think I would feel much better in just about any country with a big-bore Marlin in tow.
AC
her carrying a long gun is out. There will be long guns on the trip but the guys will be carrying them. Pistol is her only option.
I wont give her the buffalo bore stuff to try out until she has shot quite a bit out of the gun(hell I dont want to shoot the hot buffalo bore stuff). I am going to borrow a friends 44mag Taurus and get her some powder puff loads and see how she does. Might let her shoot the S&W 500 and then the 44mag will feel tame in comparison:D
S&W 629 4" would be my first choice. Cabelas has the mountain gun editions for a decent price(since my local S&W LEO dealer went tits up).
My room mate, a 28 year old girl, is going to Alaska with her family for an 8 day floating trip in July. She asked me to get her setup with a pistol to carry while shes up there. I am leaning towards either a S&W 629 4" or a Glock 20. I dont know if she can handle shooting 44mag, going to borrow a friends Taurus 44 and see how she does with it and some full power ammo. My only concern with going with 10mm over 44mag is even some of the powder puff 44mag loads I am seeing from Buffalo Bore are in the 1000ft.lb. area while the hottest 10mm load is only 700ft.lb. I think 10mm would be better than a .357 magnum, at least the gun would be easier to shoot, and ballistically they are very similar. I believe the guys that are going are going to be carrying rifles as well as pistols so I dont really think she will need to use this gun, but I want to equip her with something that will work if she needs to use it.
I have no experience with bear, but a friend that hunts and fishes in Alaska a lot has told me that if you have time to "get off a well aimed shot" you had time to run the hell away. He also said bear spray only pisses them off.
I hunt and fish in Alaska four or five times a year and it's where I'll retire to in the summers. My wife and I have had a cabin there for about 17 years. Brown bears are a fact of life there, but here's a few things to consider:
1) What kind of training and experience does your friend have with handguns? Can she hit a paper plate consistently at 15-20 yards? If not, she isn't hitting a charging Brown Bear at that distance with the guns you mentioned. Worse yet, firing at a bear and missing can be a bad proposition. It might run away, it might not. Wounding it is the worst. You've never seen a wounded animal fight like a Brown Bear does. I'm not telling you to leave the guns at home. Just know that they don't work 100% of the time. Firearms and bear spray are a system of protection and they should be carried together by people who know how to use them. Your best defense against a bear is to get out of its way. You're in his backyard and he's got a few million years worth of hunting instincts that you don't. It's an eating machine with killing instincts and sensory perception that can smell you miles away. Plain and simple.
2)With a 10mm, can she clear malfunctions reflexively?
My advice: Get her the bear spray and read this:
http://www.nationalparkstraveler.com/files/USFWS_Bear_Spray_vs._Bullets.pdf
The fishing guides that live around me at the cabin carry 12 gauge shotguns with 1 oz. rifled slugs for bear protection in their trucks and boats. Along with assorted rifles, most of them have something like a .44, .460 or similar pistol. ALL of them carry bear spray.
I have an 870P 20 inch with slugs and a Ruger Redhawk (4 inch) .45 Colt on my boat when I fish. The Redhawk is loaded with 350 grain hardcast at 1,360 fps. I use Counter-Assault bear spray. I have a can in the boat, a can in the truck, a can in the house and a can on me. I've used it two times in six years on bears. Once on a small juvenile black bear and the other on an agitated male Brown Bear skulking around the boat landing. Worked without a hitch and the bears left the area. So did we.
EDIT: Something else to consider is that this float trip is likely being done on a river that has seen a lot of float trips, boating, etc. Some of the bears have seen people before and some of them have probably been hazed with pepper sprays before. The ones that have, will know exactly what it is and they won't want to be near it. They have a good memory for things like that. I hope your friend's group is not the type that will see a bear near camp and immediately start shooting warning shots or the like. All that does is habituate the bear to gunfire and make life more dangerous for the people who live there. Try the spray first and have people on standby with lethal force, but only fire if you absolutely must. Remember that while the bears are a novelty to you, they are part of life in places up there and people are used to seeing them and know how to deal with them.
Unless she is familiar with handguns and their use, she is probably better off without one. Also her friends may be safer if she does not have an unfamiliar firearm.
In any case, a revolver of .357 or .44 mag is better than any auto. The auto will not work when pressed against a bear on top of her or a friend. The "bang stick" effect, which is the only way a handgun can quickly stop a bear outside of a solid CNS hit, is not possible with a recoil operated pistol.
poirierpro
02-26-11, 13:38
Cool post! Funny thing is I just purchased a pistol for the same reason but for ME! I chose an OD green Glock 20. I live in WA state and am an avid fly fisherman. I also have many close friends that guide for a living in N. Idaho, Alaska, and Montana. Its a split between a .44mag and a Glock 20 among them. Obviously the .44mag for ballistic trauma but I chose the Glock 20 for these reasons...
1. Its light for an outdoor gun with 15 rounds!
a. If you are fishing, riding a 4 wheeler, etc. a chest rig is really nice. A long metal .44mag is HEAVY and will cause fatigue on long days.
2. Ballistic between a .357mag and a .41mag...good enough IMO.
3. 15 rounds...carry an extra mag...30 rounds!!!
4. Recoil is VERY MANAGEABLE. People that think Glock 20's are hand cannons havent shot one before...even with hot ammo (double tap, +p, ect)
G20SF, with 2 spare mags.
the glock 10's are super easy to shoot. think glock 9mm, but double the recoil. still, not bad right? On the downside, if she has dainty lady hands, getting a good grip on that beast could be a problem.
a lot of guys really like 41 mag revolvers. it's less kick/power than a 44, but still quite a bit more than a 357 mag. Also being a revolver you have the ability to get a slimmer grip.
44 is just a lot of gun for anyone who's not experienced in shooting big bore pistols.... if she's afraid of it or unable to use it effectively it will really be more of a liability than anything.
How is she getting up there? If she's driving, a handgun is a no-go because she'll have to pass through Canada.
Okie John
F-Trooper05
02-26-11, 14:34
Born and raised in Alaska here (currently live in Fairbanks). For grizzlies, .44 Mag is the smallest cartridge that I EVER feel comfortable with. But one thing to keep in mind is that running into a cow moose is a far more common occurrence up here. And should she happen to bump into one that has a couple of calves with her, she's going to find out first hand why moose are every bit as dangerous as bears. And bringing down a half ton moose with a 10mm or .357 is no easy task.
So in my humble opinion, if someone can't handle .44 Mag (or better yet, .454 Casull) then they're better off just carrying pepper spray.
I agree with F-Trooper. I lived in Kodiak for 8 years and fortunately never had a problem with bears on a river. In July they're pretty well fed so if your GF carries pepper spray and wears some bells so the bears hear her she will be OK. Giving a cheechako an underpowered weapon with which they're not totally familiar is a disaster.
On a caribou hunt I watched my hunting partner drop a 500lb Grizzly (small, old, sick and hungry) at about 50 feet in a charge. Came home and turned in my 629 for a Freedom Arms 454 and would rather have something larger if the worst really happened.
She is familiar with guns and I am going to make sure she goes to the range at least once a month with what ever she gets before she goes, thats why I am starting the search now so I have a few months to get her trained in its use.
I have a 44mag we are going to borrow so she can see if she can handle it. I cant find a G20 to rent anywhere. .41 mag might be another option, have to look into it, but I think at that point might as well just step up to 44mag as I dont think the recoil will be that much worse.
They are flying and her dad hunts a lot so he will be transporting the guns up there. For sure they will have bear spray as well, although like I said I have heard hit or miss things on bear spray. I think they are also going to use the team approach while up there of always having somebody with a long gun with somebody who doesnt have one. I dont know what her dad is taking(or the other guys) but I suggested a 45-70 lever gun of some type.
Thanks for the advice, its about what I thought. Just got to get her to try out a few different bigger caliber guns and see if she can even handle them before having her spend 500-800 bucks on something.
rj,
As others have said, "The smallest 'pistol' caliber to carry for bears is a 12 gauge shotgun. You just can't imagine how tough those bears are until you kill and skin one out. Their fat is like body armor. You can barely cut through it with a knife.
The bear spray in to deter a "curious" bear that is hanging around NOT a bear that is after you. The only way to stop a bear that is after you is to break him down. A pistol just won't do that. When you hear stories of guys stopping a charging bear with a pistol, I can assure you that it is the exception NOT the rule. For the money you are talking about spending you could get a shotgun for less money or one of the Marlins. I would also consider a 450 SOCOM AR. They did not exist when I lived there but I think they would work great.
The most practical would be the shotgun. You could carry some bird shot with you for survival shooting and have a nice home defense gun when you come home. It is what I used when I fished in Alaska.
The only pistol I carried in Alaska was a .22, I figured as a last resort I could always shoot myself:suicide:
One last thing, tell your friend that a fish splashing on the end of your line is like a "dinner bell" to most bears. If one shows up, cut your line and let him have it:-) My brother once watched a couple of guys fight a bear with fly rods over their fish. I can't believe they lived through that stupidity.
Just my 2 cents from someone else that has fished and hunted Alaska.
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-26-11, 18:18
her carrying a long gun is out. There will be long guns on the trip but the guys will be carrying them. Pistol is her only option.
Are they just being sexist, or is there a real reason? If they are being that much of num-nuts, give her a .380 to cap one of the guys in the leg so that the bear can get him as all the girls run away.
One last thing, tell your friend that a fish splashing on the end of your line is like a "dinner bell" to most bears. If one shows up, cut your line and let him have it:-) My brother once watched a couple of guys fight a bear with fly rods over their fish. I can't believe they lived through that stupidity.
I would pay to watch that! Damn, what were they thinking?
Buckaroo
Are they just being sexist, or is there a real reason? If they are being that much of num-nuts, give her a .380 to cap one of the guys in the leg so that the bear can get him as all the girls run away.
I was curious about that too. If you're considering a .44 magnum for her, why not a 12 gauge? Hell, even a 20 gauge with slugs would be better than a .357 or similar at close range.
The Gunsite school solution is a Smith .44 magnum revolver, with four inch being the best compromise on barrel length. My wife and I live in Alaska around bears, and while we carry the Scandium 329, that, the Mountain Gun or 629 would all be fine. I would recommend the Garrett Defender load, which is designed for the Scandium 329 and Mountain Gun, and gives you a deep penetrating hard cast bullet capable of penetrating a bear's skull, with modest recoil.
Gunsite offers a Backcountry course, which is primarily designed for folks living and working around bears, and is highly recommended. For long guns, their recommendations are the Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 with hard cast ammo, or the 870 with Brenneke slugs.
The advice offered previously in this thread seems pretty well spot on, and bear spray is probably a good option for someone unwilling to get the proper training to use firearms.
Finally, we have had problem with the Buffalo Bore and Corbon 200 grain penetrator loads functioning in three different Glock 20's, which is a concern for those thinking Glock. That same ammo runs fine in my Colt Delta.
Are they just being sexist, or is there a real reason? If they are being that much of num-nuts, give her a .380 to cap one of the guys in the leg so that the bear can get him as all the girls run away.
She wont carry one, I already asked her about it(I recommended a 45-70 lever action with a nice scabbard). She said she will carry a pistol or she wont carry anything. I would rather her have a pistol and train her how to use it than for her to have nothing.
I grew up in Alaska, did a lot of hunting and backpacking. My dad used to say that when it comes to pistols in the bush any caliber will do. If a few warning shots don't drive off a grizzly with the noise then the last round is for your own ear anyway.
She said she will carry a pistol or she wont carry anything. I would rather her have a pistol and train her how to use it than for her to have nothing.
If she's this dense, the other people in her party are better off if she's unarmed or stays home. Bears are not the problem here...
Okie John
She wont carry one, I already asked her about it(I recommended a 45-70 lever action with a nice scabbard). She said she will carry a pistol or she wont carry anything. I would rather her have a pistol and train her how to use it than for her to have nothing.
I'm leaning toward a canister of bear spray, sir. She's likely to be a liability with a gun. When it comes to helping people select gear for personal protection, be it against the four legged or two legged variety, those who make absolute statements like "X or nothing" are usually more of a danger to themselves than anything else. I recommend Counter Assault spray. It's worked for me.
Wasen't the.500 s&w magnum designed with bear protection in mind? With the brakes that come on the short barrel they aren't hard to shoot at all.
Not sure what the .500 was designed for, but I think it is a better hunting cartridge/revolver than defensive one.
First, I have had all sorts of reliability problems getting a four inch .500 to run. I sent it back to the factory when it was sending shards of lead and copper into my face, they "supposedly fixed it," and it still did it. Next they replaced the entire revolver when they couldn't fix it. Have had problems with the replacement revolver (trigger sticking back after firing), and still don't trust it enough to depend on it.
Second, the thing is heavy! Seems closer to the weight of my Guide Gun than the Scandium 329, and it is a chore to carry. I wonder how many folks actually carry them all day?
Third, in a defensive scenario, as opposed to hunting, you need to be able to penetrate the skull of a bear with a hard cast bullet at 15 yards or closer. Since a 329/629 will do that, with less packing weight, less recoil and faster follow-up shots, not sure the benefit of the .500?
A .44 mag handgun is not the firearm for a novice or casual shooter.
In fact a good number of experienced shooters have trouble shooting it without flinching.
A buddy and I did a 10-day, 500 mile mountain bike ride in AK in summer 2009. I brought a 5.5" Ruger Redhawk with some kind of hot Ruger/Dan Wesson-only Double Tap hard cast ammo that's not up on their site anymore. I do not like excessive recoil (EDC a G19), but I found the loads extremely tolerable and quite accurate in the big Ruger. We also carried Counter Assault pepper spray. Fortunately, we didn't use either.
When we arrived at our starting point far north of the Arctic Circle, a polar bear had just killed a musk ox just outside of the airport. The .44Mag, so impressive at home in OR, really seemed small in that environment. However, my early experiments with attaching an equestrian-style shotgun scabbard to my bike were unsatisfactory, which is how I ultimately opted for the more portable Redhawk and Counter Assault instead of a Mossberg 500 full of hard cast 3" slugs.
OP, I'm surprised that you are uncertain about the effectiveness of pepper spray against Alaskan bears. The recent, credible studies that I'd found when preparing for my own AK trip generally concluded that pepper spray was more effective than firearms in preventing human injury during bear encounters. Honestly, all fantasies aside, I'm not surprised by these findings.
Sure, this is a gun board, but I suggest you have another look at spray, especially for use by a non-gunnie. Forget the 10mm/.41Mag/.357Mag talk, and note that almost nobody with first-hand AK experience will recommend one. These ain't black bears.
Tell her to stay alert and have a great trip!
ETA: I miss that Ruger and was foolish to sell it.
If a long gun is an option, I would go to a .308 infantry rifle (FAL, G3, AR-10) before considering any shotgun or large bore lever action.
You will have a second or two to place rounds into a bear. The later two guns are too slow to get back on target and do not provide provide any more real world ballistics than .308.
You can dump multiple Barnes solid copper rounds (or some other dense hunting projectile) out of a magazine fed rifle than a shotgun or level gun.
I carried a Glock 20 instead of a .44 when I was last in the interior. I wouldnt reccomend it but if someone knows what he's doing I wouldn't give him a hard time about it either. If I was headed to the coast I would take a 9.3 or bigger and not a handgun. But I'm disciplined about carrying a rifle.
Get her spray.
The wife and I have spent a LOT of time in Grizz country.
For a minimum load in the 44 Mag I would recommend a hard cast bullet of 240 to 250 grains over 8.5 to 9.5 grains of Unique.
You will get adequate penetration and fairly low recoil.
For factory ammo, the 270 Speer Gold Dot Soft Point or the Federal 300 GR Cast Core are both great choices and kick less than full power 240 gr loads in a 4" S&W.
The only thing I've carried in AK other than a 5wt fly rod is a .300 chambered and in reality, I'd have been better with the fly rod. Avoid the situation altogether, forget the notion of trying to arm for it, that's piss poor planning. I know too many natives that in 60 years have not fired on a bear because they had the sense to avoid the situation. If you really want to confront one, have at it but I don't see the point.
Alaskapopo
02-27-11, 23:37
My room mate, a 28 year old girl, is going to Alaska with her family for an 8 day floating trip in July. She asked me to get her setup with a pistol to carry while shes up there. I am leaning towards either a S&W 629 4" or a Glock 20. I dont know if she can handle shooting 44mag, going to borrow a friends Taurus 44 and see how she does with it and some full power ammo. My only concern with going with 10mm over 44mag is even some of the powder puff 44mag loads I am seeing from Buffalo Bore are in the 1000ft.lb. area while the hottest 10mm load is only 700ft.lb. I think 10mm would be better than a .357 magnum, at least the gun would be easier to shoot, and ballistically they are very similar. I believe the guys that are going are going to be carrying rifles as well as pistols so I dont really think she will need to use this gun, but I want to equip her with something that will work if she needs to use it.
I have no experience with bear, but a friend that hunts and fishes in Alaska a lot has told me that if you have time to "get off a well aimed shot" you had time to run the hell away. He also said bear spray only pisses them off.
The 629 is the better choice. Handguns are weak to start with and if she is attacked by a bear you may have to fire the last few rounds in the cylinder while she is being mauled on the ground. Semi autos don't always run well with out a good stance and grip and they don't work if you push the barrel into the target. These things may all happen in a bear attack. I was charged last summer by a black bear on duty and It took several slugs and a few rounds of 45-70 to put the animal down for good. Pistols just are not that reliable for stopping charges. Its better than nothing but I consider a handgun as a back up when I am out in the woods up here.
Alaskapopo
02-27-11, 23:40
If a long gun is an option, I would go to a .308 infantry rifle (FAL, G3, AR-10) before considering any shotgun or large bore lever action.
You will have a second or two to place rounds into a bear. The later two guns are too slow to get back on target and do not provide provide any more real world ballistics than .308.
You can dump multiple Barnes solid copper rounds (or some other dense hunting projectile) out of a magazine fed rifle than a shotgun or level gun.
I disagree. The .308 is just not powerful enough to be considered a reliable brown bear stopper. It would be fine on a Black bear. But the 45 70 is a far better choice with good loads. (430 grain cast bullet at 2000 fps) or a 12 gauge loaded with Breneke slugs. I have had to kill my share of bear unfortunately and I don't trust anything less than a 12 gauge loaded with good slugs. The 45-70 or .375 is even better. The .45 70 has a hell of a lot better real world ballistics than the .308. A good .45 70 load can go clear through a grizzly shoulder to shoulder. Not going to happen with a .308.
Pat
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/bolt%20action/Marlin-1.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/shotguns/VangComped870.jpg
My bear back up pistol
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Revolvers/Bowen.jpg
A 5 shot 45 Colt custom Ruger by Hamilton Bowen. It launches a 350 grain slug at 1350 fps.
The .338 federal in a AR10 type gun may work.
By the way when they charge you have less than a few second but it will feel like time is standing still. The only thing that will save you is making your shots count, not spraying and praying.
Very nice lever-gun! The most under-appreciated assault rifle ever made.
Heartbreaker
02-27-11, 23:45
I have a G20 and an 329PD (airweight .44), even though the 329 is lighter/smaller I take the G20 into bear country, it's a lot easier to shoot (the 329 is brutal with full power ammo), and there are still good ammo options. I use CorBon 200 grain RNPN, it's supposed to have excellent penetration for big game (I believe moose kill more people than bears in Alaska, bears aren't the only problem). The 20 is a big gun gripwise for some people, might want to handle an SF before choosing. No matter what you use I'd advise emptying the mag if your life is truly in danger, my uncle shot a black bear square in the head with a .270 Win, came back in his truck 15 mins later and all that was left was a little pool of blood.
Alaskapopo
02-27-11, 23:51
I have a G20 and an 329PD (airweight .44), even though the 329 is lighter/smaller I take the G20 into bear country, it's a lot easier to shoot (the 329 is brutal with full power ammo), and there are still good ammo options. I use CorBon 200 grain RNPN, it's supposed to have excellent penetration for big game (I believe moose kill more people than bears in Alaska, bears aren't the only problem). The 20 is a big gun gripwise for some people, might want to handle an SF before choosing. No matter what you use I'd advise emptying the mag if your life is truly in danger, my uncle shot a black bear square in the head with a .270 Win, came back in his truck 15 mins later and all that was left was a little pool of blood.
I hate the 329 it is brutal and there is no way I would fire ammo in it that I would want to use for bear defense. (300 grain hard cast at 1100 fps) But the standard 4 inch 629 mountain gun is a good compromise of power and portability. I just don't trust the 10mm (basically a 357 mag) to do the job. Moose kill more people only because of stats from auto accidents thrown into the mix. Bears are far more dangerous. Moose kill but usually only when you are between them and their young. Bears are more un predictable.
Pat
The 629 is the better choice. Handguns are weak to start with and if she is attacked by a bear you may have to fire the last few rounds in the cylinder while she is being mauled on the ground. Semi autos don't always run well with out a good stance and grip and they don't work if you push the barrel into the target. These things may all happen in a bear attack. I was charged last summer by a black bear on duty and It took several slugs and a few rounds of 45-70 to put the animal down for good. Pistols just are not that reliable for stopping charges. Its better than nothing but I consider a handgun as a back up when I am out in the woods up here.
Good post with good advice. I think most people can appreciate the power and determination of a bear, but when you see one soak up rounds like yours did, it puts things in perspective. The Black Bear is something to be reckoned with, despite its reputation for being a clown. I experienced a similar incident during an elk hunt 10 years ago. A member of my hunting party was charged by a black bear. He put three rounds of .300 Win Mag into it at 15 to 20 yards and it ran off only to attempt to circle around behind him. He hit it twice more and finally dropped it.
Heartbreaker
02-28-11, 00:07
I hate the 329 it is brutal and there is no way I would fire ammo in it that I would want to use for bear defense. (300 grain hard cast at 1100 fps) But the standard 4 inch 629 mountain gun is a good compromise of power and portability. I just don't trust the 10mm (basically a 357 mag) to do the job. Moose kill more people only because of stats from auto accidents thrown into the mix. Bears are far more dangerous. Moose kill but usually only when you are between them and their young. Bears are more un predictable.
Pat
I have those loaded for it too, nothing like handing it to a hot shot friend with 5 rounds of .44 special then one of those. I agree 10mm is anemic for bears, but between a heavy DA trigger, the limited capacity, slower reloads, etc. I just find the autoloader hard to give up. If I was in a position to run into bears more often I might go with a .40 Super or .460 Rowland conversion, still not quite what .44 mag can do but I would feel comfortable enough.
Alaskapopo
02-28-11, 00:11
I have those loaded for it too, nothing like handing it to a hot shot friend with 5 rounds of .44 special then one of those. I agree 10mm is anemic for bears, but between a heavy DA trigger, the limited capacity, slower reloads, etc. I just find the autoloader hard to give up. If I was in a position to run into bears more often I might go with a .40 Super or .460 Rowland conversion, still not quite what .44 mag can do but I would feel comfortable enough.
Some of your concerns can be addressed. Get a good revolver smith to do a trigger job and that DA pull can be as light as 8 pounds. Reloads are slower and capacity is limited but in my experience these type of attacks having more than 6 rounds is not going to be an issue nor is a quick reload. They just happen so fast you won't have time to dump mag after mag into the bear unless you are shooting a bear that is attacking someone else. There was a shooting on the Kenai river several years back where a fisherman saved another persons life by dumping his mag from a sig 9mm pistol into the bear. But the bear was not focused on him. I am not saying your choice is stupid but I would not feel comfortable with it.
Powder_Burn
02-28-11, 11:26
Looks like a compensated revolver would be practical option. It seems that folks like the G20 for being controllable and the 629 for having better ballistics. A comp could split the difference between platforms. This is a S&W factory 629, with 4" barrel and comp.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/Powder_Burn/Forum%20Posts/SWM629Comped-1.jpg
Hmm, that ported 629 is interesting.
And thanks Alaskapopo, I was wondering when you would stick your head in here.
As far as her being proficient with firearms, she has a 357mag she has shot occasionally and she shoots my M&P's quite a bit so I am not worried about her not being proficient. Plus I am starting her off early enough before her trip I hope to get her to the range with whatever she chooses at least 2x a month.
Im going to take her shooting on thursday with a borrowed Taurus 44mag and see how she likes it.
I tried to talk her into a long gun of some kind but she just wasnt interested(its too big, all the guys are going to have one, etc...). She is interested in getting the pistol and with women that is half the battle so I will work with that. if it doesnt work out, I wont have wasted anything except a few bucks in ammo.
My sister in law has a Taurus in 44 Mag that she carries in the field.
I have shot if some and with its ports and rubber grip it is fairly comfortable to shoot with full power ammo.
Beat Trash
02-28-11, 16:18
Not to hijack this thread, but I have been noticing within the last year that the 12 ga pump loaded with a good, hard slug is popular for bear defense.
Between the Marlin Guide gun in 45-70 and the 12 ga pump/slug combo, which of the two is preferred for bear defense by those living in Alaska?
I think you've got the pistol selections covered, but in bear country, I know that I would feel much better with a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in .45-70.
Come to think of it, I think I would feel much better in just about any country with a big-bore Marlin in tow.
AC
The Guide Gun would be a great choice. It's also small enough that she could easily sling it and it wouldn't be a burden in any way.
I hunt with a Super Blackhawk Hunter W/Bisley grips in 44mag and the recoil isn't bad at all. It's a big revolver though. 7" barrel. With the proper sling it would be a winner also.
The 45-70 would be my first choice though.
It is my experience, despite the good intentions of folks, that revolvers longer or heavier than a four inch 629 end up not being carried continuously, and a 329 or 629 in your hand beats a long barrel .500 back at camp every time. Either a Guide Gun or 870 is the perfect long gun, but it is a supplement to, and not a replacement to a handgun worn continuously. By continuously, I mean "on" even in the sleeping bag at night when sleeping in a tent in bear country.
Cincinnatus
02-28-11, 16:59
I think you've got the pistol selections covered, but in bear country, I know that I would feel much better with a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in .45-70.
Come to think of it, I think I would feel much better in just about any country with a big-bore Marlin in tow.
AC
My uncle works for the BLM in Wyoming, where bear encounters are on the rise due to all the animal-rights nuts protecting predators, even when their numbers get out of hand. He says he carries a lever-action .45-70, or else a twelve gauge loaded with alternating buckshot and slugs.
A long-gun is by far the better choice in bear country.However, if she has some good reasons why a long-gun would not be possible to have, and if .44 is too stiff for her, I suggest .41 mag.
Alaskapopo
02-28-11, 18:54
Not to hijack this thread, but I have been noticing within the last year that the 12 ga pump loaded with a good, hard slug is popular for bear defense.
Between the Marlin Guide gun in 45-70 and the 12 ga pump/slug combo, which of the two is preferred for bear defense by those living in Alaska?
The 45-70 is new for me so I can't comment yet.
Pros of the shotgun with slugs.
Faster to shoot and reload.
Cons short range and less power.
Pros of the 45 70
More power and penetration. (would want on a Brown bear)
Cons slower to fire and far slower to reload.
I see more people whom I trust with 45-70's than I do shotguns.
Pat
I used to live in Iowa where slugs were manditory for deer hunting. The slugs being produced today, come close to the same performance as a 45-70. A Benelli SBEII, rifled barrel, using Winchester 3" Partition Gold slugs is what I suggest. The last guide I used in Canada was using a Winchester Super X2 setup with a rifled barrel and Lightfield 3 1/2". He said shoot 3 or 4 rounds out of it, I quit at number 3.
Beat Trash
02-28-11, 21:59
Alaskapopo,
Thanks for the info...
Pat (Alaskapopo) pretty much nailed it in his first post. The trouble with long guns is they usually end up propped against a tree or rock on the beach when fishing. They get in the way when you are engaged in almost any activity so most people leave them behind after a few trips. Handguns are far from ideal for large animal defense but they are handy and much easier to have at hand when the need arises. As a 34 year Alaskan who lives in the South Central coastal area of very large brown bears I chose the two firearms pictured for my summer bear defense. The 329 or 629 are not the best choice for killing bears but they are light enough to carry all the time and will be on your person when you need it. The Marlin 45/70 is very light and handy for a heavy caliber rifle but like Pat says it very slow to reload. I occasionally carry a 12 gauge with Brennekes but the Marlin is much easier to pack and stays out of the way for the most part.
The advice to avoid bears is great but the only thing predictable about browns is that they are entirely unpredictable. They may be old or injured and you just look like an easy lunch to them.
Pepper spray is great if you want a charging bear to get within ten or fifteen feet and hopefully the wind is in your favor. When you look at the federal bear spray studies you have to realize that most of the time the test subjects were only allowed to carry and use the pepper spray and did not have the option of using firearms.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/akviper/000_0041.jpg
Hmm, that ported 629 is interesting.
And thanks Alaskapopo, I was wondering when you would stick your head in here.
As far as her being proficient with firearms, she has a 357mag she has shot occasionally and she shoots my M&P's quite a bit so I am not worried about her not being proficient. Plus I am starting her off early enough before her trip I hope to get her to the range with whatever she chooses at least 2x a month.
Im going to take her shooting on thursday with a borrowed Taurus 44mag and see how she likes it.
I tried to talk her into a long gun of some kind but she just wasnt interested(its too big, all the guys are going to have one, etc...). She is interested in getting the pistol and with women that is half the battle so I will work with that. if it doesnt work out, I wont have wasted anything except a few bucks in ammo.
Don't forget she needs a quality holster and belt that will secure the gun even if she gets dumped in the water.
I'm sorry, but from reading your posts my gut tells me she won't be sticking to *your* practice schedule and she may not be diligent about carrying the gun once up there, either.
sixgun-symphony
03-01-11, 05:52
I would get her a Ruger Bisley in .41 Magnum. The Bisley grip really tames the recoil of the .41 magnum.
sixgun-symphony
03-01-11, 05:54
I'm sorry, but from reading your posts my gut tells me she won't be sticking to *your* practice schedule and she may not be diligent about carrying the gun once up there, either.
I get the same feeling, I would encourage her to get the pepper spray sold for bear repellent.
Alaskapopo
03-01-11, 07:50
I would get her a Ruger Bisley in .41 Magnum. The Bisley grip really tames the recoil of the .41 magnum.
You don't want a single action because they are much more difficult to fire one handed. If you end up getting mauled you may only be able to fire the pistol one handed. You need a da revolver. Single actions need not apply.
Pat
You don't want a single action because they are much more difficult to fire one handed. If you end up getting mauled you may only be able to fire the pistol one handed. You need a da revolver. Single actions need not apply.
Pat
A few years ago I found a website about bear defense by an Alaskan hunter who had survived a mauling thanks to hunting buddies shooting a sow off of him - and then having to shoot both mature cubs that tried to get a piece.
He made the same point - forget about single action revolvers! Interestingly, he was also not very high on super sized DA revolvers .454 on up. Too much recoil. His point was you need to bust the brain pan and that may take followup shots.
He said that the Alaska Troopers tested service handguns against actual griz heads and found that any service caliber 9mm on up would work and super sized calibers .44 mag and larger would still fail if you hit the slope of the forehead vs in the mouth or up the nostrils.
Alaska Troopers went with Glock .40s.
I am in love with the lever guns.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_2659.jpg
It is something I have had all my life but the ? is will she use the gun or not if she will there is nothing better for her.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_3051.jpg
If she can hit the intended target with a long gun it will be more effective than any hand gun that is just fact.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_2757.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_2349.jpg
Alaskapopo
03-01-11, 08:17
A few years ago I found a website about bear defense by an Alaskan hunter who had survived a mauling thanks to hunting buddies shooting a sow off of him - and then having to shoot both mature cubs that tried to get a piece.
He made the same point - forget about single action revolvers! Interestingly, he was also not very high on super sized DA revolvers .454 on up. Too much recoil. His point was you need to bust the brain pan and that may take followup shots.
He said that the Alaska Troopers tested service handguns against actual griz heads and found that any service caliber 9mm on up would work and super sized calibers .44 mag and larger would still fail if you hit the slope of the forehead vs in the mouth or up the nostrils.
Alaska Troopers went with Glock .40s.
The troopers went with the 40 in 1992 with the Smith and Wesson 4006. They upgraded to Glocks in the 2002 or so. A friend of mine who was a fish and wildlife trooper did some testing on bear skulls and found that the .357 sig and 40sw with FMJ loads would penetrate a bear skull however the .40 would not do it with JHP duty ammo. Its in the trooper OPM not to use handguns on wildlife unless its an emergency situation.
Pat
Cincinnatus
03-01-11, 09:21
I am in love with the lever guns.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_2659.jpg
It is something I have had all my life but the ? is will she use the gun or not if she will there is nothing better for her.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_3051.jpg
If she can hit the intended target with a long gun it will be more effective than any hand gun that is just fact.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_2757.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_2349.jpg
Very nice! Thanks for posting those pics!
Very nice! Thanks for posting those pics!
Thank you
You don't want a single action because they are much more difficult to fire one handed. If you end up getting mauled you may only be able to fire the pistol one handed. You need a da revolver. Single actions need not apply.
Pat
Da revolver should do da job. ;)
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Mr. Smith,
Any chance of a full length pic of the stainless rifle?
Mr. Smith,
Any chance of a full length pic of the stainless rifle?
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/marlin%20lever%201895-94-336/100_2367.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/marlin%20lever%201895-94-336/100_0910.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_2755.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_2772.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_2765.jpg
Both of those weapons are beautiful!! How would someone go about having one done just like either of those two? I've looked over your site and can't find any description of those services being performed.
The Gunsite school solution is a Smith .44 magnum revolver, with four inch being the best compromise on barrel length. My wife and I live in Alaska around bears, and while we carry the Scandium 329, that, the Mountain Gun or 629 would all be fine. I would recommend the Garrett Defender load, which is designed for the Scandium 329 and Mountain Gun, and gives you a deep penetrating hard cast bullet capable of penetrating a bear's skull, with modest recoil.
Gunsite offers a Backcountry course, which is primarily designed for folks living and working around bears, and is highly recommended. For long guns, their recommendations are the Marlin Guide Gun in 45-70 with hard cast ammo, or the 870 with Brenneke slugs.
The advice offered previously in this thread seems pretty well spot on, and bear spray is probably a good option for someone unwilling to get the proper training to use firearms.
Finally, we have had problem with the Buffalo Bore and Corbon 200 grain penetrator loads functioning in three different Glock 20's, which is a concern for those thinking Glock. That same ammo runs fine in my Colt Delta.
What loads suitable for the back country did function well in the Glock 20's?
No doubt the RIGHT rifle, or a 12ga with the RIGHT ammo is better than a revolver...
Problem is you ust cannot carry a rifle in your hands ALL the time.
AND you may never know you have bear trouble until you are knocked down by the bear.
IF,
you have a revolver, say a 4" S&W 44 Mag, you might have a chance of survival...
If you don't, then you are FOOD.
You do not want TOO BIG a revolver [I have a FreedomArms in 475 Linebaugh, I love it as a primary hunting handgun, not for a Defense handgun], as you want to be able to shoot it with one hand, with your wrist in an odd position.
When I hunt bear with the FA 475 as my Primary Gun, I still carry a
4" S&W 44 Mag for my Defensive handgun...
IMO the optimal combo is one of those Marlins and a G20 loaded with hot FMJ flatpoints.
Both of those weapons are beautiful!! How would someone go about having one done just like either of those two? I've looked over your site and can't find any description of those services being performed.
Send an e-mail to me at the web site with your info.
We can start a dialog about what you have and what you would like to have.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/629%20bear%20gun/100_2732.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/629%20bear%20gun/100_2726.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/629%20bear%20gun/100_2729.jpg
Alaskapopo
03-01-11, 17:55
Send an e-mail to me at the web site with your info.
We can start a dialog about what you have and what you would like to have.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/629%20bear%20gun/100_2732.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/629%20bear%20gun/100_2726.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/629%20bear%20gun/100_2729.jpg
Pretty gun. If it had a U notch rear sight and a fiber optic instead of the front gold bead and if it retained its single action capability it would be perfect in my opinion. Good work.
Pat
Pretty gun. If it had a U notch rear sight and a fiber optic instead of the front gold bead and if it retained its single action capability it would be perfect in my opinion. Good work.
Pat
Thanks
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/akviper/000_0041.jpg
Now you got me wanting an 1895 stainless steel gun. Cabela's has them for 650, I gotta be able to find one cheaper than that.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/akviper/000_0041.jpg
Is that over-sized lever stock or custom? Really nice rifle!
Buckaroo
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/marlin%20lever%201895-94-336/100_2367.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/marlin%20lever%201895-94-336/100_0910.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_2755.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_2772.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/Lever%20Love/100_2765.jpg
Dang buddy, show her these pics and I'll bet she changes her mind about not wanting to carry a rifle! :eek::):cool:
The_Biased_Observer
03-01-11, 21:28
What stock set is on the black/stainless gun above? Dyed wood or plastic?
poirierpro
03-02-11, 03:13
IMO the optimal combo is one of those Marlins and a G20 loaded with hot FMJ flatpoints.
I agree.
A few thoughts:
1) The Alaska folks will probably want to keep this thread going for another month or so, until we are out amongst the waking bears!
2) Good arguments can be made for the Guide Gun or 870. My wife favors a Guide Gun cut to a 16.25 barrel and 12.5 LOP, which makes for a trim, hard hitting package. Using the 420 +P Garrett ammo, she harvested a brown bear with that rifle some years back in hunting season. I also like a 14 inch NP3'd, Vang'd 870, and like the versatility of having a rubber slug to shoot a nuisance bear with, or shot shell to harvest a game bird.
3) As I mentioned before, we have three G20's (two recent SF models) that won't feed the Corbon or Buffalo Bore 200 grain penetrator load. Those loads work in my Delta and my wife's G29. We haven't found a suitable 200 grain penetrator load we have run enough to have confidence in yet, but we just got some Double Tap 200 to try. Right now, we are using the Corbon and DT 155 grain Barnes load, but not having a penetrator load sort of makes the G20 a no go for us. I would rather have my HK 45 in the winter, and complete reliability than a G20 that isn't.
4) Don't overlook the G29 for a gal's gun, as it is very easy to carry.
5) While the magazine capacity of the G20 sounds good, these are not likely to be high round count encounters, and a 329 with the Garrett Defender load weighs about the same as the G20 and has gobs more power. Figure one warning shot and at most one or two shots to solve the problem with a bullet that must penetrate the skull inside ten yards.
Dang buddy, show her these pics and I'll bet she changes her mind about not wanting to carry a rifle! :eek::):cool:
Thank you we do a lot of marlin work.
What stock set is on the black/stainless gun above? Dyed wood or plastic?
It is wood dyed black.
sixgun-symphony
03-02-11, 10:26
You don't want a single action because they are much more difficult to fire one handed. If you end up getting mauled you may only be able to fire the pistol one handed. You need a da revolver. Single actions need not apply.
Pat
Very few people ever use two hands when firing a single action revolver. The vast majority use one hand when firing a single action revolver. Many people shoot double action revolvers in single action mode, with one hand.
sixgun-symphony
03-02-11, 10:37
.45 Colt
.44 Magnum
.44 Special
.44-40 (.44 WCF)
.41 Magnum
.38-40 (.38 WCF)
.357 Magnum
All good calibers in a revolver, DA or SA will be fine.
I used to have a Colt New Service revolver in .38 WCF. It was made in 1912 and I would carry that in bear country using my handloads with the Lyman #401043 cast bullet.
Alaska,
What kind of grips are those on the ruger redhawk? I have a 4 in and like the looks of those grips.
By the way I would recommend the biggest gun she can effectively shoot. 44. or 45 colt at minimum. Start with a 44 special round and work up.
Allen
sixgun-symphony
03-06-11, 05:25
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c215/Sixgun_Symphony44-40/LightweightBisley2.jpg
This
.454 worked nicely for this guy...
Couple things to note that have been mentioned before:
- A handgun saved his life while walking his dog. It was with him at the time of the incident where a rifle might not have been.
- He's a fishing guide who works in an area with a large bear population. He decided on a .454.
http://www.adn.com/2009/08/13/897940/twig-snap-alerts-dog-walker-to.html
Spooky
davebee456
03-06-11, 12:08
I would not feel bad with a Glock 20 10mm with a Red Dot Setup like Bowie Tactical does.
GitmoSmoke
03-06-11, 13:32
I'd like to add something of my limited knowledge of the subject of pistols for the back country. While I have never done anything in Alaska, I have traveled the North Cascades of Washington.
Is a bear encounter the most likely threat she will encounter? What about the raft flipping over and losing their supplies?
I chose a S&W 629 as my backpacking revolver for its versatility. I carry some lightly loaded cast bullets in case I need to harvest a small animal for emergency food, some 44 spec hollow points (Blaser Gold Dots) for 2 legged threats, and a speed loader of Garrett Defenders for when I happen to see bears, cubs or carrion that could draw in a bear. An auto loader simply can't match that. With a canister of spray she should be well armed against more than just bears.
From what i have read from outfitters and other that have talked about it always came to the same point. revolver, magnum. The one the comes up the most is the Ruger GP100. The price is right and everyone can handle the .357 load. Now what you want to do is water proof the rounds for a raft ride. In my younger days we water proofed our rounds .357 or .44 with finger nail polish( primer and lead to case) for spearfishing with power-heads in the Gulf of Mexico. A thin quick coat and it worked fine even to depth passed 100ft.
Alaskapopo
03-07-11, 18:59
From what i have read from outfitters and other that have talked about it always came to the same point. revolver, magnum. The one the comes up the most is the Ruger GP100. The price is right and everyone can handle the .357 load. Now what you want to do is water proof the rounds for a raft ride. In my younger days we water proofed our rounds .357 or .44 with finger nail polish( primer and lead to case) for spearfishing with power-heads in the Gulf of Mexico. A thin quick coat and it worked fine even to depth passed 100ft.
A 357 is under powered for bear defense. Its better than nothing but I won't trust it. Not many up here do.
Pat
poirierpro
03-07-11, 20:29
Would one think of a .41 mag as a bear gun?
A 357 is under powered for bear defense. Its better than nothing but I won't trust it. Not many up here do.
Pat
Not much other choice for the price and what she is willing to pack. with the right load it will get the job done. Don't think she will pack a .454 or a .500 but he might sell her on the .44 after a trip to the range.
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/629%20bear%20gun/100_2732.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/629%20bear%20gun/100_2726.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/629%20bear%20gun/100_2729.jpg
That gun looks suspiciously familiar...
I used to be a fan of the .357 Magnum for black bear. A 700+ -lb black bear will change ones mind in a hurry. Absolutely no way, ever, I'd consider a .357 for brown bear.
That gun looks suspiciously familiar...
I used to be a fan of the .357 Magnum for black bear. A 700+ -lb black bear will change ones mind in a hurry. Absolutely no way, ever, I'd consider a .357 for brown bear.
Were you hunting it or shooting it through the mouth at 10 feet?
Alaskagrown
03-08-11, 12:42
A 357 is under powered for bear defense. Its better than nothing but I won't trust it. Not many up here do.
Pat
Joe Nava up in Fairbanks does the bear training for the wildlife biologists and others that go out into the field. He says a .357 is the minimum to carry and 12 ga. He has some real world experience as has at least one woman that took his class with what a 357 will do on a charging brownie.
That said I carry a S&W Mountain Gun in .44mag at a minimum. I went in to a friends bear bait station to retrieve a game camera after griz had moved in on it and had the revolver and my 870 loaded with slugs.
I also plan on getting a 45-70 eventually.
One thing no one has mentioned yet is how they carry their revolver. I have mine in a chest holster.
To the OP your friend is going to need a holster for the gun I recommend the Alaska Sportsman chest holster or Diamond D chest holster. If she is going to keep the gun in a backpack she might as well not bring one because it isn't going to do her any good a bear isn't going to wait for her to take the pack off, unzip, pull the pistol out etc.
I spent 10 days last fall moose hunting in an area that I can only describe as bear infested in a couple instances I was walking back to a spot I had been less that 20 minutes ago and found fresh bear scat where I had been standing. I never went more than 5 feet without seeing bear sign. Also never got a moose. Didn't go anywhere without the .44.
That gun looks suspiciously familiar...
I used to be a fan of the .357 Magnum for black bear. A 700+ -lb black bear will change ones mind in a hurry. Absolutely no way, ever, I'd consider a .357 for brown bear.
Got toLove a nice 629.
How about a Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull, but loaded with .45 Colt bear loads?
Agree with Alaskapopo. I like to carry using a shoulder holster. I have an old Bianchi Phantom that works a charm with some of the weight on your belt. She'll be wearing a parka (even in mid summer) and maybe waders so a belt rig is hard to get to in a hurry. I remember watching a bush pilot I was walking behind trying to get to his belt rig when brush started rattling. Looked like he was dancing on a hot stove. Pretty funny especially since it turned out to be an eagle getting airborne.
Alaska, you'll love your Guide Gun. They're really fast , handy to carry and a good head of steam.
Were you hunting it or shooting it through the mouth at 10 feet?
Neither. Nor do I think anyone is going to place a deliberate shot through the mouth of a charging bear at 10 feet.
Would one think of a .41 mag as a bear gun?
No point. In police loads it duplicates 10mm, in hot loads its a more expensive .44. My aunt carries one, but mostly out of inertia.
Uncle killed a problem blackie with a .44 and 310gr cast core Federals. Said he's never had that fast a kill--and full penetration broadside. He was happy.
He has also put a whole cylinder of 240s into a moose's head at contact range and still had to get a rifle to finish it. This after he mortally wounded it with a rifle.
Alaskapopo
03-08-11, 21:05
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c215/Sixgun_Symphony44-40/LightweightBisley2.jpg
This
Great choice for cowboy action or hunting non dangerous game, but not a good choice for bear defense due to the single action only limitation and slow reloads. I think that is a very pretty pistol for what its worth.
Pat
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