Keynesian Economics fail

[500grains]

Remember how Congress passed the so-called stimulus bill without reading it because otherwise the world would end?

Well not only did the bill raise our debt by another trillion dollars, but it also, as suspected, ended up being a failure.
:fie:



CBO: Jobs Created and Saved By Stimulus Cost At Minimum An Average of $228,055 Each
Thursday, February 24, 2011
By Matt Cover

President Barack Obama and stimulus

President Barack Obama signed an economic stimulus law, now determined by the CBO to cost $821 billion, at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science on Feb. 17, 2009. (AP photo)

(CNSNews.com) - The jobs created and saved by the economic stimulus law that President Barack Obama signed on Feb. 17, 2009 cost at a minimum an average of $228,055 each, according to data released yesterday by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

...

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cbo-jobs-created-and-saved-stimulus-cost

[czydj]

I sure wish they wouldn't have borrowed the cash, but if they had to, they should have just distributed it back to the taxpayers. IMHO, the Government should have given folks back their Fed taxes for the last X number of years. A refund. After it's all said and done though, once again, this debacle just proves Uncle Sam duddn't know best!

[variablebinary]

The stimulus was never about creating jobs to begin with.

It was a payoff to Obama's supporters and the bankers.

[mr_smiles]

I sure wish they wouldn't have borrowed the cash, but if they had to, they should have just distributed it back to the taxpayers. IMHO, the Government should have given folks back their Fed taxes for the last X number of years. A refund. After it's all said and done though, once again, this debacle just proves Uncle Sam duddn't know best!

How would the government give back years of income tax?

It's not as if this stimulus money was your actual tax dollars (I know many people want to believe the feds just have their money in a big pile in some back room), it was securities sold to investors to be paid at a later date with your taxes going towards interest. So to give your tax money back they would have had to do the same thing and it would have done just as much for the economy.

And because of the low interest on treasury securities (ts), you could look at it as stimulating the none government securities market (capitalism) by making them more attractive with the higher returns oppose to the low returns offered on the ts.

Another one before people bring it up, China has actually less invested in TS than they did 2 years ago, Japan and the UK however have been buying them up. Maybe they want Texas :D

ETA: Not sure if I made any sense lol, I'm rambling and it's 5:30am and I'm about to go to bed :P

[Caeser25]

Some of the MSM is pulling their head outta their a$$. The local news had a story on last week about 2.6 million spent here that created 12 jobs. It should have went to the TAXPAYERS, not everybody. It wouldn't have been squandered as much as it was, not that we should have spent it in the first place.

[czydj]

How would the government give back years of income tax?

It's not as if this stimulus money was your actual tax dollars (I know many people want to believe the feds just have their money in a big pile in some back room), it was securities sold to investors to be paid at a later date with your taxes going towards interest.

Did ya miss the first part of my post where I mentioned I wish they wouldn't have borrowed the money in the first place? Seeing as how they did so w/o asking me, I believe returning my previous tax and SS payments would be better than payola, graft and lunacy...

[rickrock305]

I'm not arguing for the stimulus, but it did work.

The stock market is up, despite absolutely no reason for it to be. Quite the opposite in fact, most considerable factors all point to a lower stock market, yet it keeps on pluggin away.

All the talk of creating jobs was just a smoke screen. In reality it was about keeping Wall St. and the bankers fat and happy.

[austinN4]

The stock market is up, despite absolutely no reason for it to be.
The stock market is up because corporate earnings are up and interest rates are still very, very low.

Also, is appears some of you are confusing stimulus money with TARP. TARP investments have mostly been repaid except for AIG, GM and Chrysler, but the stimulus spending was largely wasted.

http://economyblog.ncpa.org/tarp-2-versus-stimulus-2/ :

"The first thing is that we should keep reminding ourselves of the difference between government "investments" as TARP-I featured and TARP-II will likely feature to some lesser extent, and traditional government fiscal policy. Whether using government funds to purchase illiquid (non-trading) securities, as TARP-I originally intended, or injecting "capital" by buying preferred stock in stressed institutions, as was implemented, there is a good chance that the Treasury will be able over time to recoup the cost of its investments. There will likely be some losses mixed in, but the odds on a net overall gain are good."

The stimulus packages, on the other hand, feature, not investments, but traditional government spending. Whether or not they are successful in stimulating the economy and mitigating declines in employment, the funds spent are lost to the Treasury (and only partially made up through higher tax revenues than might occur otherwise). Unfortunately, I know of no magic spending programs that are likely to be especially effective in achieving its goals and would be temporary and easily reversible as the need passes."

Indeed, it looks increasingly like the stimulus program will consist of a grab bag of traditional liberal spending programs that were rejected in calmer past circumstances. No matter what the composition of spending, advocates will be able to point to some benefits. The question is, however, whether the benefits would substantially exceed the benefits of not raising the pending budget deficit even further and adding even more to the outstanding government debt."

[Belmont31R]

I sure wish they wouldn't have borrowed the cash, but if they had to, they should have just distributed it back to the taxpayers. IMHO, the Government should have given folks back their Fed taxes for the last X number of years. A refund. After it's all said and done though, once again, this debacle just proves Uncle Sam duddn't know best!




We would still end paying for it, and possibly more because they borrow the money with interest. We only owe less if inflation beats the interest rate on the debt.


A tax brake without an equal amount of spending cuts is not a tax cut. Its just a credit card you have to pay back + interest.

[Belmont31R]

I'm not arguing for the stimulus, but it did work.

The stock market is up, despite absolutely no reason for it to be. Quite the opposite in fact, most considerable factors all point to a lower stock market, yet it keeps on pluggin away.

All the talk of creating jobs was just a smoke screen. In reality it was about keeping Wall St. and the bankers fat and happy.


Its been about 2 years since it was passed, and even if you count the full stimulus amount of around 850 billion in two years that is only about 1/30th of the economy. So less than 5%.

[BrianS]

I'm not arguing for the stimulus, but it did work.

If it worked why don't we do it again?

[Belmont31R]

The Stimulus was Obama and the democrats way of padding their buddies wallets. There is video out there where Harry Reid thanked the Apollo Alliance for helping write the bill. This was the far left getting a massive spending bill through Congress that directly benefited them and their causes.


The Apollo Alliance is a coalition of far left groups like SEIU, other unions, green groups, ect. http://apolloalliance.org/about/board/


Then its no wonder Obama constantly harps about green energy jobs. He is beholden to these types of people, and his ideology comes from them.


Looks at the endorsers: http://apolloalliance.org/about/endorsers/


All people Obama has connections to.



The Apollo Alliance is a project of the Tides Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.
Tax identification Number: 94-3213100.


http://www.tides.org/


Here is Harry Reid at an Apollo Alliance meeting in 2006...3 years before the Stimulus was passed. He is in bed with them just like Obama, and Reid praised them for writing the bill that became the stimulus.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOmFCXvBuIo

[500grains]

I'm not arguing for the stimulus, but it did work.

Ummm... No. The unemployment rate was supposed to stay under 8 percent with the stimulus, but it went up 2 points above that and we are still not recovering jobs at a rate equal to our population growth.




The stock market is up, despite absolutely no reason for it to be.

Gold, stocks, oil, food are all up because the Obummer administration has been printing money. There are now more dollar bills in the world than there are blades of grass on my lawn.



All the talk of creating jobs was just a smoke screen. In reality it was about keeping Wall St. and the bankers fat and happy.

One of the counts of impeachment against that evil man Richard Nixon was "lying to the American people."

[rickrock305]

Ummm... No. The unemployment rate was supposed to stay under 8 percent with the stimulus, but it went up 2 points above that and we are still not recovering jobs at a rate equal to our population growth.

You have to read my entire post and address it in context.

I pointed out that the stimulus, TARP, QE2, none of it was ever about creating jobs. It was both Bush and Obama's giveaways to bankers and Wall St.




Gold, stocks, oil, food are all up because the Obummer administration has been printing money. There are now more dollar bills in the world than there are blades of grass on my lawn.

Yes, that is all up. And yet overall the DJIA is up as well. The S&P, the NASDAQ, all up. Despite horrible economic performance, record unemployment, a housing and mortgage market in the toilet, consumer confidence is just now coming back. This does not equal market performance in a sensible world.

[rickrock305]

The Stimulus was Obama and the democrats way of padding their buddies wallets. There is video out there where Harry Reid thanked the Apollo Alliance for helping write the bill. This was the far left getting a massive spending bill through Congress that directly benefited them and their causes.




Its not strictly an Obama/Dem problem. Remember TARP? Socializing the losses, privatizing the profits.