AR for 3-Gun

[heijutsu]

I am really interested in getting into local 3-Gun matches and am having problems trying to narrow down AR' to use for this only. I want it to have a 18" stainless barrel with a muzzle break instead of a flash suppressor, and a round handguard. I have been looking at JP Rifles, Larue, etc... and I would like to get some input from guys/gals who shoot 3-Gun and see what they like and why?

[Robb Jensen]

It really boils down to how far out you'll be shooting, here in VA/MD matches, most shooting is done inside of 300yds (most are within 200yds and in). 3gun is pretty popular in NC. In NC I've only shot 3gun at Blackwater and their side rifle matches. If you'll be shooting 300yds and beyond I'd recommend a 18-20" barrel for a flatter trajectory. Next year I want to shoot the CTI and the NC RECON match.



My 3gun rifle was pretty expensive to build and it's a work in progress built over the last 2yrs.


Bushy lower
VLTOR E-mod stock kit
Geissele trigger
Power Custom large mag catch button
Wilson Combat bolt catch
Ambi-Catch(TM)
KNS pins
Harris bipod w/LaRue mount
Tangodown grip
VLTOR MUR1 upper
Colt 1/2 circle unshrouded bolt carrier
BCM bolt
PRI gas buster charging handle
RRA midlength bbl (chrome lined 1x9 twist, I shaved the FSB to fit under the FF tube)
Flatland Forge F2 comp
JP VTAC FF tube w/2 rails
Aimpoint H1 w/ LaRue mount
Leupold Vari-X III 1.5-5x 20mm
LaRue SPR-E 30mm scope mount


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/e66298f3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/3-gunriflefsc556sbr001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/3-gunriflefsc556sbr002.jpg

[NightFighter]

My 3gun rifle was pretty expensive to build and it's a work in progress built over the last 2yrs.


Bushy lower
VLTOR E-mod stock kit
Geissele trigger
Power Custom large mag catch button
Wilson Combat bolt catch
Ambi-Catch(TM)
KNS pins
Harris bipod w/LaRue mount
Tangodown grip
VLTOR MUR1 upper
Colt 1/2 circle unshrouded bolt carrier
BCM bolt
PRI gas buster charging handle
RRA midlength bbl
Flatland Forge F2 comp
JP VTAC FF tube w/2 rails
Aimpoint H1 w/ LaRue mount
Leupold Vari-X III 1.5-5x 20mm
LaRue SPR-E 30mm scope mount

Very nice rifle. What is the reason you have two different scopes on your rifle?

[Robb Jensen]

Very nice rifle. What is the reason you have two different scopes on your rifle?


The Aimpoint H1 is for close range targets (it's sighted in for POA/POI at 15yds), it's very fast and then I don't have to worry about hold over since the round will go low at close range. Sneaky course designers will sometimes make a very small (headshot or smaller) targets at 10-15yds. If you're not paying attention and use your primary optic you'll shoot under it (and completely miss). Or they'll set up targets in a way that a no-shoot is right in front of a headshot only target and, I've see people put two rounds right into the no-shoots head because they didn't know what their rifle would do at that distance.

[chp5]

One decision is what division to compete in. Here's a brief (and incomplete) summary based on USPSA rules:

Limited - all iron sights, no compensators on pistols or SG.

Tactical - One optic on rifle, otherwise the same as Limited.

Open - Don't start in this division :)

Before you spend lots of money on gear, go shoot a few matches. You'll see what other people are using and what seems to work/not work.

A simple Aimpoint works very well for many local matches without really long shots (<100 yards). Any quality AR will do for now. Good luck.

[taliv]

the closest match around here goes from zero to 300 yrds and doesn't have any division that allows more than one optic. it's hard to find a single optic that works well for <20' and >150yrd

[chp5]

the closest match around here goes from zero to 300 yrds and doesn't have any division that allows more than one optic. it's hard to find a single optic that works well for <20' and >150yrd


No doubt. I run the Meopta 1-4x. It's a good "do everything" scope, but big and pricey. There's a thread on it I believe.

[AR15barrels]

it's hard to find a single optic that works well for <20' and >150yrd

These are all good "single optic" options, depending on your budget:

Schmidt & Bender Short Dot
Meopta 1-4
Trijicon Accupoint 1.25-4
Mlillet DMS-1 1-4
Weaver 1-3

[AR15barrels]

I am really interested in getting into local 3-Gun matches and am having problems trying to narrow down AR' to use for this only. I want it to have a 18" stainless barrel with a muzzle break instead of a flash suppressor, and a round handguard. I have been looking at JP Rifles, Larue, etc... and I would like to get some input from guys/gals who shoot 3-Gun and see what they like and why?

You have the basic configuration down pretty good.

Here's my setup with an ACOG and JP SRTS.
I shoot in tactical class which allows only one optic.

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/3gun-rifle.jpg

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/3gun-sights1.jpg

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/3gun-sights2.jpg

17.5" medium lightweight (0.700" under the handguards) stainless barrel.
JP Low Mass carrier.
Lightened A2 buffer with 1.6oz of reciprocal weight.
Stag comp (very similar to MSTN QC) that I tuned for my rifle/ammo by adding holes on top until I had no muzzle jump.
Trijicon TA01NSN ACOG is excellent past 25yds.
JP SRTS (Short Range Tactical Sight) for 5-25yds.
Under 5 yds, you just point the whole rifle.
YHM customizable handguard chosen because I wanted to custom index the SRTS as close to the ACOG as I could and the JP only allows you to move in 45 degree steps when mounting accessories.
Lightweight aluminum gas block loctited into detent on the barrel.
Arredondo magazine well makes for faster mag changes.
Jewel trigger set so light that it scares un-informed people.
On the left side at the front of the handguard (not pictured) is a short section of rail that I mount a light on for night matches.
My thumb tends to rest on this during the day.

It's not flashy and covered in products with logos engraved on them, but it works.
In the end, it's the shooter that matters, not the gun.

[taliv]

yeah, i'm shooting an acog (31-RCO model, which is pretty dang sweet for 50-500yrds, but in retrospect was the wrong choice) at the moment on one gun and i just bought an aimpoint micro T1 for the super-light gun i'm building, but haven't shot it yet (mostly because i'm still waiting on the barrel)

i was going to buy a short dot but after putting my hands on them at pat's memphis carbine class, i decided not to. i mean, they're kinda cool, but i still don't get what makes them deserve the reputation/cost they have.

[NightFighter]

GotM4,
I moved to NOVA today and was wondering if you could tell me where I could go to shoot some pistol matches and where I can go to learn how to shoot my pistol better. I know this question may not be phrased the best, but I just drove up, moved in and had cable installed so I am tired. I want to know where I can learn tactical pistol shooting and where I can shoot some IDPA and/or IPSC matches. Hope that is phrased better:D

[Robb Jensen]

GotM4,
I moved to NOVA today and was wondering if you could tell me where I could go to shoot some pistol matches and where I can go to learn how to shoot my pistol better. I know this question may not be phrased the best, but I just drove up, moved in and had cable installed so I am tired. I want to know where I can learn tactical pistol shooting and where I can shoot some IDPA and/or IPSC matches. Hope that is phrased better:D

For pistol training I'd recommend any class taught by Larry Vickers (www.vickerstactical.com) (a member here on M4carbine.net), Pat Rogers (http://www.eagtactical.com/) (a member here on M4Carbine.net) Travis Haley (aka SIMPLYDYNAMIC) (www.sditactical.com) (a member here on M4Carbine.net) and BlackwaterUSA (www.blackwaterusa.com) of these guys the only one I've not trained/shot with is Pat Rogers, although when I get the chance in my busy/crazy schedule I'll be there in a NY minute.


For local IDPA matches you can checkout IDPA (www.idpa.com) at their website. For USPSA check out www.uspsa.com Most matches will let you shoot one match until you become a member of IDPA (for IDPA matches) and USPSA (for USPSA matches).


For matches NoVA IDPA matches:

The NRA Range has a monthly match in Fairfax, VA ph# 703.267.1400

There's an IDPA match the 2nd Wed of each month at Blue Ridge Arsenal (www.blueridgearsenal.com) in Chantilly.

Occasionally I shoot IDPA down at Cavalier (west of Richmond VA) http://cavrpc.org/, this year I shot the Commonwealth Cup match at Rivanna http://www.rrpc.org/ I know that Black Creek also runs an IDPA match as well as a 3gun match....email Jim Taylor as their website is down......jltaylorATcavtel.net


For USPSA, the NRA Range puts on a match I don't shoot there very often, it's hard to get a slot and it's an unsanctioned match (meaning no classifier, so to me not worth the effort/frustration, it would just be practice).

Fredericksburg (http://www.rodngunclub.org/) has their USPSA monthy match on the 1st Sunday of the month (March-November) contact Tino via email for more info at bad320ATaol.com

North Mountain Practical Shooters is also a great match held on the 2nd Sunday of the month in Strasburg VA. Contact Dan and Elaine Chandler for more info at danelainecATverizon.net

Blackwater USPSA is the 3rd Sunday of the month www.blackwatershooters.com..............their match is tomorrow, I'm not going because I'm going fishing with some coworkers out on the bay.

[Robb Jensen]

See you at the range!

[NightFighter]

See you at the range!
Thanks for the information. I have loaded the information into my Palm. I will be the one standing around asking a lot of question and probably missing most of the targets:)

[NightFighter]

GotM4,
Can you recommend any shooting ranges in the NOVA area. I live in Alexandria, but if necessary I will travel to a good range. I know this is an off topic question, but if I come by your store can you help me with suggestion on putting my rifle together? You seem to have a significant amount of knowledge and would like to pick your brain so I dont waste money on useless equipement.

[BigDog]

Gotm4 helped me a lot with my first two builds, a RECCE and a lightweight, and saved me a hell of a lot of money along the way with his advise.

(Although I should have asked him about the HBAR A4 upper *before* I bought it...:( )

[NightFighter]

Gotm4 helped me a lot with my first two builds, a RECCE and a lightweight, and saved me a hell of a lot of money along the way with his advise.

(Although I should have asked him about the HBAR A4 upper *before* I bought it...:( )
Thanks for the recommendation. This will be my first AR and I want to do it right.

[BigDog]

Agreed. When I started my first, I had a vague idea of what I wanted to do, but the more I researched it and talked with Robb, the more I decided to do it right from the start. The result is a tack-driver, and I couldn't be happier with it!!

[Robb Jensen]

GotM4,
Can you recommend any shooting ranges in the NOVA area. I live in Alexandria, but if necessary I will travel to a good range. I know this is an off topic question, but if I come by your store can you help me with suggestion on putting my rifle together? You seem to have a significant amount of knowledge and would like to pick your brain so I dont waste money on useless equipement.

The two best ranges in the area (IMHO) are the NRA Range 703.267.1400 and Quantico www.quanticoshootingclub.com There are others that pretty good for primarily pistol. If you want to join private ranges the Fairfax Rod and Gun club is very nice as well as the various Issac Walton Leagues.



Gotm4 helped me a lot with my first two builds, a RECCE and a lightweight, and saved me a hell of a lot of money along the way with his advise.

(Although I should have asked him about the HBAR A4 upper *before* I bought it...:( )

That's alright :) , I'm putting the 20" barrel you gave me to good use, it'll be an almost all tan AR with a flat top with a removable carry handle. I'll post a pic when I get it together.

[9x19]

One decision is what division to compete in. Here's a brief (and incomplete) summary based on USPSA rules:

Limited - all iron sights, no compensators on pistols or SG.

Tactical - One optic on rifle, otherwise the same as Limited.

Open - Don't start in this division :)

Before you spend lots of money on gear, go shoot a few matches. You'll see what other people are using and what seems to work/not work.

A simple Aimpoint works very well for many local matches without really long shots (<100 yards). Any quality AR will do for now. Good luck.

Where is local for you? You don't have a location in your profile. :)

[9x19]

the closest match around here goes from zero to 300 yrds and doesn't have any division that allows more than one optic. it's hard to find a single optic that works well for <20' and >150yrd

Where are you located? You don't have a location in your profile. :)

[chp5]

Where is local for you? You don't have a location in your profile. :)

Atlanta, GA. I updated my profile :)

[taliv]

cookeville, TN

the match i'm referring to is the tactical rifle match at the steel city range in birmingham AL that is held every 5th saturday, like the 29th of this month.

it's a 4 hr drive, over 500 miles round trip and a night in a hotel, but it's all i've got. if anyone knows about matches closer, plmk.

[9x19]

Thanks for the updates on your locations. Hopefully, there are some matches near you both and that another member can add some info.

Edited to add: Check out the Competition Forum here on the site and the USPSA website.

[dwhitehorne]

GotM4,
Can you recommend any shooting ranges in the NOVA area. I live in Alexandria, but if necessary I will travel to a good range.


These are some of the ranges I've been to when I lived in Alexandria.

http://www.gilbertrange.com/

http://www.shootersparadise.com/newweb/
Shootersparadise had a fire and I'm not sure what their status is. The website looks like it hasn't been updated since the spring. I haven't been there in a few years.

http://www.blueridgearsenal.com/
This is on the other side of town from you. It is near me and where I go.

The NRA range is nice but they have odd hours for my schedule and were busy everytime I've been. David

[NightFighter]

These are some of the ranges I've been too when I lived in Alexandria.

http://www.gilbertrange.com/

http://www.shootersparadise.com/newweb/
Shootersparadise had a fire and I'm not sure what their status is. The website looks like it hasn't been updated since the spring. I haven't been there in a few years.

http://www.blueridgearsenal.com/
This is on the other side of town from you. It is near me and where I go.

The NRA range is nice but they have odd hours for my schedule and were busy everytime I've been. David
Thanks for the information on gun ranges in NOVA. I have been to Gilberts and they treated me okay. I have to take everything with a grain of salt due to my skin complexion:eek:

[Robb Jensen]

Here's my wifes 3gun AR (a little lower budget build than mine ;) ) She shoots a WHOLE lot less competition than I do but has lots of fun anyway, she's picking up the the skills very quickly!

Bushmaster lower receiver w/DPMS LPK
McCormick trigger
KNS anti-rotational pins
NORGON Ambi-Catch(TM)
Power Custom mag catch button
RRA upper receiver
Colt bolt and 1/2 circle unshrouded carrier
Colt 16" .625" profile (chrome chamber but not bore) 1x9 barrel (I shaved the FSB to fit under the FF tube)
JP VTAC FF tube
JP Bennie Cooley brake
Magpul CTR stock
Magpul MIAD grip
Weaver 1" 1-3x scope
ArmaLite 1" scope mount
Millet red dot close range optic



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/rightside-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/leftside-1.jpg

[chp5]

Here's my wifes 3gun AR (a little lower budget build than mine ;) ) She shoots a WHOLE lot less competition than I do but has lots of fun anyway, she's picking up the the skills very quickly!

Bushmaster lower receiver w/DPMS LPK
McCormick trigger
KNS anti-rotational pins
NORGON Ambi-Catch(TM)
Power Custom mag catch button
RRA upper receiver
Colt bolt and 1/2 circle unshrouded carrier
Colt 16" .625" profile (chrome chamber but not bore) 1x9 barrel (I shaved the FSB to fit under the FF tube)
JP VTAC FF tube
JP Bennie Cooley brake
Magpul CTR stock
Magpul MIAD grip
Weaver 1" 1-3x scope
ArmaLite 1" scope mount
Millet red dot close range optic



Still a nice rifle. I used to run the Weaver 1-3x. It's a good, inexpensive yet effective scope for 3 gun.

Here's the big Meopta on my competition rifle (top). I'm running an 18" gov't-style contour barrel, JP FF tube, JP trigger.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/511538.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=511538&c=500&z=1)

[AR15barrels]

Here's the big Meopta on my competition rifle (top).

http://www.hunt101.com/img/511538.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=511538&c=500&z=1)

It pleases my heart to see that M16 stock.
They really are the perfect fixed stock due to the length and the rounded corners of the rubber buttpad.

[chp5]

It pleases my heart to see that M16 stock.
They really are the perfect fixed stock due to the length and the rounded corners of the rubber buttpad.

Agreed- it's the only fixed stock I use.