View Full Version : New BH 5.56 mm 50 gr TSX initial data
Below is some data from the new BH 5.56 mm 50 gr TSX load.
5 shot averages fired at 3 meters from 14.5" M4 w/ave MV of 3012 fps:
BG: pen=14.7" RD=0.47" RW=49.9gr
Steel: pen=19.4" RD=0.22" RW=49.6gr
Wall: pen=16.7" RD=0.46" RW=49.9gr
Auto Glass: pen=17.0" RD=0.36" RW=43.4gr
----------
MV from various barrel lengths
8" = 2634 fps
10.5" = 2749 fps
14.5" = 3105 fps
20" = 3205 fps
One of the nice things about this load is that it works very well in barrels from 8-20 inches long and works in twists from 1/12 to 1/7.
The photo below compares a 3m BG shot from a 10.5" brl on top with a shot from a 20" brl on the bottom:
http://www.tridentconcepts.com/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/131381255671.jpg
Below are some recovered bullets fired from an 8" brl into BG at 3m:
http://www.tridentconcepts.com/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/131381279054.jpg
Awesome looking load. I take it this is going on the recomended list?
Uh...have you read the 2nd paragraph here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881???
ICANHITHIMMAN
03-01-11, 20:22
clean pics thank you for the update
Awesome, outstanding information. Ordered some of the 5.56 mk262 but have not found any of this new 5.56 50gr. TSX yet.
vicious_cb
03-01-11, 20:40
Impressive results. Does the 50gr TSX still exhibit petal shearing through auto glass like the previous TSX bullets?
Robb Jensen
03-01-11, 21:12
Damn that load appears to be very nice.
A bit, but not as bad as before.
Have you guys called Black Hills (800-568-6625 ) and asked where to get the ammo? I have recently been informed that www.firststopgun.com (http://www.firststopgun.com) (605-341-5211), a store in Rapid City has the new BH 5.56 mm 50gr TSX in stock.
ElyasWolff
03-01-11, 23:07
Out of curiosity is this the same bullet?
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=912424
Uh...have you read the 2nd paragraph here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19881???
Ahhh. My bad.
This has the potential to be the leading multi-purpose, general issue, all systems defensive load for LE and self defense.
I'm anxious to see Molon do some of his accuracy analysis.
Called Black Hills. The rep recommended checking with MidwayUSA or FirstStopGun.
MidwayUSA doesn't have it, but FirstStopGun said on the phone they would be willing to ship it out at $60/box.
Hopefully AmmunitionToGo picks it up.
Hope you guys don't mind some sticker shock. TSX's tend to be pretty pricey...
The commercial price for the BH 5.56 mm 50 gr TSX load is on par with other loads of similar capability such as the Federal TBBC, figure $1.10-1.25/cartridge. Makes 6.8 mm prices look a bit better now, especially given the increase in terminal performance, doesn't it...
The 50 gr TSX bullet used in the BH load is NOT the same one that is currently commercially available as a reloading component.
DocGKR,
Can you also please provide some of the other terminal ballistic data on this ammo? e.g. max TC, neck, etc.
Seems like it has outstanding weight retention, even through glass. nice.
The 50 gr TSX bullet used in the BH load is NOT the same one that is currently commercially available as a reloading component.
Bummer. :(
ElyasWolff
03-02-11, 22:53
Bummer. :(
Tell me about it!
I wonder what is different, and if Barnes will offer it to us poor peons...
The commercial price for the BH 5.56 mm 50 gr TSX load is on par with other loads of similar capability such as the Federal TBBC, figure $1.10-1.25/cartridge. Makes 6.8 mm prices look a bit better now, especially given the increase in terminal performance, doesn't it...
To me? No. To me, everyone has now officially lost their damned minds over the prices they're charging for ammunition.
Looks to be a great load but, I'll be sticking to what I'm currently using (and can afford in quantity).
I too would like to know what the difference is on that 50 gr. TSX. Maybe a cannelured version or ?
MV from various barrel lengths
8" = 2634 fps
Below are some recovered bullets fired from an 8" brl into BG at 3m:
http://www.tridentconcepts.com/alumni/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/131381279054.jpg
It seems this may challenge some of the conventional wisdom re: terminal ballistics from barrels shorter than 10.5". Can you share the test results for the 8" barrel? I must admit that I find this interesting considering all the comments I've seen on the subject.
biodegraded
03-04-11, 22:41
Hopefully AmmunitionToGo picks it up.
Just noticed that ATG is showing they have it in stock here (http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/cPath/24_83_106/products_id/5537) Their price is $70/50.
Just noticed that ATG is showing they have it in stock here (http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/cPath/24_83_106/products_id/5537) Their price is $70/50.
GONE!
Be extra careful and specific if you try to order from FirstStopGun. They have the 55gr .223 loading in stock, not the 50gr 5.56.
Just noticed that ATG is showing they have it in stock here (http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/cPath/24_83_106/products_id/5537) Their price is $70/50.
GONE!
It's back.
Thx for the heads up.
I just bought a couple of boxes. I'll have to buy a few here and a few there since it is so expensive.
So is this the same 50gr TSX that Barnes offers as a handloading projectile? And, is this 50 TSX assumed to have better overall terminal ballistics than the 62 or 70gr TSX? I'm trying to find the "ulitimate" HD projectile to handload. Everytime I think I've narrowed it down I read something that contradicts my decision. So far I've loaded the Sierra 77gr matchking and the 62gr TSX. Federal doesn't offer the Mk318 projectile as a reloading component so that is out of the question. I've also been thinking about loading the Trophy Bonded (tipped) 62 gr as mentioned in previous posts. I'm using a 16 inch 1:7 twist barrel AR. So which bullet should I focus on for reloading. Keep in mind I can create the highest possible velocities that are safely possible. Also, some of the best rounds mentioned by DocGKR (in his sticky) are fragmenting or expanding projectiles. Which is a better wounding mechanism since I have access to both?
Shawn Dodson
03-08-11, 19:06
So is this the same 50gr TSX that Barnes offers as a handloading projectile? As posted earlier - NO.
So is this the same 50gr TSX that Barnes offers as a handloading projectile? And, is this 50 TSX assumed to have better overall terminal ballistics than the 62 or 70gr TSX? I'm trying to find the "ulitimate" HD projectile to handload. Everytime I think I've narrowed it down I read something that contradicts my decision. So far I've loaded the Sierra 77gr matchking and the 62gr TSX. Federal doesn't offer the Mk318 projectile as a reloading component so that is out of the question. I've also been thinking about loading the Trophy Bonded (tipped) 62 gr as mentioned in previous posts. I'm using a 16 inch 1:7 twist barrel AR. So which bullet should I focus on for reloading. Keep in mind I can create the highest possible velocities that are safely possible. Also, some of the best rounds mentioned by DocGKR (in his sticky) are fragmenting or expanding projectiles. Which is a better wounding mechanism since I have access to both?
Unless you live alone and not in an apartment I would stay away from the TSX, especially the 62gr and 70gr variety, for home defense. They are good barrier loads (except for windshields) but therein lies the problem. Using them for close quarters engagements where others may be a few boards of drywall away isn't ideal. The 50gr doesn't penetrate as much as the other two, but is still a barrier load.
Any effective bullet can penetrate drywall and harm someone on the other side but the fragmenting designs like the OTM's are less likely to do so and will likely cause less damage if they do. I would load the 75gr Hornady OTM if you have a barrel that will stabilize it but they don't offer the T2 (as loaded in the 75gr TAP) for reloading. It is a bit better for the application so personally I'd get a few boxes of TAP and reload the 75gr OTM as offered for additional ammo.
Kill By Number
03-09-11, 18:52
How much of that wound channel is permanent cavity and how much is temporary? I didn't realize nonfragmenting bullets could upset such a large cavity. Thanks for posting.
AirRaceFan
03-09-11, 19:36
Be extra careful and specific if you try to order from FirstStopGun. They have the 55gr .223 loading in stock, not the 50gr 5.56.
They also have the 50gr TSX 5.56 in stock. I received mine from them yesterday.
Just bought the last box of this at ATG. They are out of stock now.
Barrier blind loads are good GENERAL PURPOSE loads––if you have a specific niche that requires other terminal performance parameters, then by all means go with what you need––for example a reduced ricochet, limited penetration load. Yet look carefully at the penetration numbers provided above for the BH 5.56 mm 50 gr TSX load––typical duty handgun projectiles are going to penetrate just as deeply, if not more so than the 50 gr TSX, yet do folks unduly worry about penetration depths of handgun loads indoors?
davidjinks
03-10-11, 17:36
Deleted
urbankaos04
03-12-11, 13:42
Is it known whether the bullet used in the BH load will be available as a separate component for those inclined to reload?
Not avail. as a separate reloading component.
For those who have purchased this ammunition...are the bullets cannelured? Thanks.
For those who have purchased this ammunition...are the bullets cannelured? Thanks.
I haven't purchased this specific ammo yet but judging by every other TSX I've ever seen they won't have a cannelure but will have driving bands which can be used for crimping just like a cannelure.
Barrier blind loads are good GENERAL PURPOSE loads––if you have a specific niche that requires other terminal performance parameters, then by all means go with what you need––for example a reduced ricochet, limited penetration load. Yet look carefully at the penetration numbers provided above for the BH 5.56 mm 50 gr TSX load––typical duty handgun projectiles are going to penetrate just as deeply, if not more so than the 50 gr TSX, yet do folks unduly worry about penetration depths of handgun loads indoors?
I fully understand what you are saying here, Doc, but I still have to ask.
How is terminal performance between this 50gr. TSX vs. 75gr. TAP vs. MK262 Mod 1 out of a 10.5" barrel when a barrier is not a consideration? How would you rank them in effectiveness? Would one be more effective in CQB distances where the other would be better for longer ranges?
I would imagine that the TSX would give more effective range, but the TAP and MK262 Mod 1 would create a larger wound cavity....am I off here?
Please advise.
Thanks
I haven't purchased this specific ammo yet but judging by every other TSX I've ever seen they won't have a cannelure but will have driving bands which can be used for crimping just like a cannelure.
Yes, I understand that, but I am trying to determine what would be different from the bullets supplied to the Black Hills company versus what a reloader can purchase. I can not see where it would be economically feasible for a bullet company to run a separate line for one customer.
I don't intend to buy this ammo, because I reload. My 75 gr. Hornady reloads will be fine for most of my perceived applications.
That said, I can use a 50, 53, or 55 grain TSX, loaded to its maximum safe pressure/velocity and have similar performance. I believe there is only so much one can do with an all copper bullet to make it different without changing weight. That would include a cannelure addition, change in metallurgy or ogive or base modification. I don't have a great need for this barrier blind ammunition, but I am curious about this bullet. :)
I have always been a fan of 'copper solids'. I think the hunting industry has a lot of experience with what will actually drop a living animal. Hunters will not buy ammo that doesn't work (at least not a second time!)
I suspected that the 70gr THX would be a good bet for 1/7 bbls. It seems that the DoD agreed.
Now this 50gr THX seems really interesting. I like the old 1/12 M16A1 bbl. Acceptable 45-55gr ammo can be found nearly everywhere that sells ammo.
Question for the Doc, any results yet from 20" 1/12 bbls?
As noted, it works very well in 20" barrels in any twist from 1/7 to 1/12.
vicious_cb
03-20-11, 00:14
What would be a better GP load, 5.56 50gr TSX or the Mk318 62gr?
I'd likely go with the BH 5.56 mm 50 gr TSX for CONUS GP use.
Doc, out of an SBR, would you still use TAP T2 over this load for HD/CQB?
How do terminal ballistics between the two compare if NOT shot through a barrier?
Thanks
I had the same question as the above poster, is TAP T2 still the best there is for nonbarrier use?
Maybe my line of thought is wrong but looking at Doc's results I'm thinking this is going to be my go to all around GP round. Doesn't look like I need to worry about over penetration. Even if I did as long as I'm putting rounds on target and the threat is neutralized then I'm happy. In a HD situation I will more than likely be shooting at an intruder downstairs. My kids are upstairs and relatively out of a line of fire. If I have to fire at someone outside then the situation is very serious and I am not going to care too too much about bullets exiting a person. My main line of thought will be to end the threat as quickly as possible. This round seems to give me the best chance of that. If I could locate the Tap 2 I'd be fine with that also. I'm not going to really over analyze the type of ammunition used though. They are both very good rounds. However, if the situation was bad enough that I had to shoot into and through some type of barrier to neutralize a threat then the 50gr TSX is the round of choice. Regardless I'm going to stock up on it when I can afford a couple of boxes here and there. I also have a 1000 rds of the Speer LE 64gr. I'm definitely happy with the ballistics of either round.
snackgunner
03-23-11, 22:17
I want some of this ammo.
A group buy sounds good right about now.
I want some of this ammo.
A group buy sounds good right about now.
I'll play if it becomes a reality.
I'll play if it becomes a reality.
I'll get in on that too.
Submariner
03-27-11, 12:45
Now all we need is accuracy confirmation from Molon.:D
We just got some of this ammo in stock for those interesed!
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=D556N1
C4
NinjaMedic
03-29-11, 16:24
Any idea if this round was entered in the FBI 5.56 competition?
So Doc, terminally speaking, BH 5.56 50 gr tsx, or TAP T2, which is better if barriers are not a concern?
Both work without barriers; the 50 gr TSX is more versatile, the 75 gr T2 is better at long range.
For GP use, I prefer a barrier blind load, so would go with something like the TBBC, Win bonded, or TSX.
Submariner
03-30-11, 08:29
Both work without barriers; the 50 gr TSX is more versatile, the 75 gr T2 is better at long range.
For GP use, I prefer a barrier blind load, so would go with something like the TBBC, Win bonded, or TSX.
...
I'd likely go with the BH 5.56 mm 50 gr TSX for CONUS GP use.
Would Mk 318 Mod 0 be good enough to use in a fight, given proper shot placement?
I thought about this before I fell asleep last night and it came to me: Black Hills Gold!
A $50 American Eagle costs just under $1500.00. One thousand rounds of BH 50 gr. TSX from Grant would run $1403. Would I actually shoot the BH at $1.40/round? This said, I have a case of BH Blue Box 75 gr. for which I paid $440.00, delivered. Gold was about $450/oz then. So the BH isn't really over-priced in terms of gold, just expensive in terms of dollars.
Two cans (1,640 rounds) of Mk318 Mod 0 would run just over $1,225.00, delivered. I might actually shoot some at 75 centavos per round to periodically verify zero. Is better (TBBC, Win bonded, or TSX for GP and T2 for long range) of greater value than good enough? Would a mix of Mk262 and Mk 318 sufficient for most circumstances? Note, too, that non-LEOs tend to pay more for 5.56mm TAP, when available.
Both work without barriers; the 50 gr TSX is more versatile, the 75 gr T2 is better at long range.
For GP use, I prefer a barrier blind load, so would go with something like the TBBC, Win bonded, or TSX.
And if you are using a 10.5/11.5, the argument can be made that bonded bullets are a better choice as they are not as reliant on velocity to do their job effectively.
C4
Radioflyer
04-12-11, 23:34
How much of that wound channel is permanent cavity and how much is temporary? I didn't realize nonfragmenting bullets could upset such a large cavity. Thanks for posting.
+1 I'm interested in this info as well.
Does anyone know the ballistic coefficient of this 50 g. TSX?
If not, does anyone have data for velocity loss at 400+ yards?
BushmasterFanBoy
04-18-11, 13:46
Any word on how the existing .223 pressure 55gr/62gr/70gr TSX loads from Federal, Cor-bon, etc. stack up against it? I've got a few mags loaded up with Federal's 55gr TSX and was impressed with my very informal testing vs. Privi M193. But at $1.50 a round, buying up another batch could be better spent on more training ammo if there's not much difference between the two.
To be blunt, is this a game changer for the TSX lineup or just a "product improved" version of existing loads?
vicious_cb
04-18-11, 13:57
If not, does anyone have data for velocity loss at 400+ yards?
Probably pretty bad since its such a light bullet. I wonder why they chose this weight in particular. 50grs seems almost too light, I would much rather prefer a 62gr bullet for better performance at range.
The chose the 50 gr bullet weight because it provides OPTIMAL terminal performance characteristics and penetration depths across a wide variety of scenarios when shot at typical LE engagement distances by weapons with varying barrel lengths and twists--the 62 gr load meets NONE of these parameters.
Doc,
Any concerns you have with shooting this round at extended distances out of 1/7 twist barrels for duty use (eg, 200+ yards)? I assume not since the TSX bullets are typically longer from what I understand....
The 50 gr TSX works fine out to 300 or so.
Are there applications where these heavier versions of the TSX would perform as well as the 50gr? I assume the advantage of the light weight bullet is higher mv from short barrels. Perhaps the 62gr would do as well from a 16-20" barrel?
I see 53gr TSX and 55gr TAC-X component bullets on Weideners. Are these still a significantly different construction then the 50gr used in the Black Hills ammo? Or has old stock turned over by now perhaps?
Old stock, new stock--it does not matter, as they are different bullets with altered velocity windows.
a lot of people were asking about this vs 75grn tap so here: Not perfect but close enough to get an idea.
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh63/vinnyraf870/gel.png
ElyasWolff
01-01-12, 14:21
a lot of people were asking about this vs 75grn tap so here: Not perfect but close enough to get an idea.
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh63/vinnyraf870/gel.png
That looks really impressive, but it could be that the different jel photos (and dye) make the 2 tests appear very different. Since I am poor and dont have access to a rifle on duty. I have my home AR filled with 75gr TAP and wish I could buy the 50gr TSX to reload.
doc, we are really getting 15" of penetration and full expansion out at 300 yards with a 50 grain projectile? whats the velocity/expansion threshold on this? 50 grains is just so light, i just cant wrap my head around this.
Using the 50gr TSX ballistic coeficient from the Barnes site, my ExBal software and the velocity I got from a 16" barrel (3200fps), it looks like a 250 yard zero (2.3" high at 200) will yield less than 3" of deviation from muzzle to 291 yards. Nice. Very nice.
Dye in the gel causes the TC to look larger. The big takeaway you can see is the earlier upset of the 50 gr TSX, deeper optimal penetration, and better retained weight.
Oreo--The 50 gr TSX is optimized for CONUS LE and self-defense applications. If you need to shoot at longer distances or if you are hunting, the 70 gr TSX is the best choice.
BH 50 gr TSX continues to upset to about 2300 fps. As I have stated previously, keep in mind that with non-fragmenting bullet designs, heavier bullet weights are not necessarily better, especially at closer ranges and from shorter barrels. As long as penetration and upset remain adequate, it is possible to use lighter weight non-fragmenting bullets and still have outstanding terminal performance. With fragmenting designs, a heavier bullet is ideal, as it provides more potential fragments and still allows the central core to have enough mass for adequate penetration. In addition, heavier bullets may have an advantage at longer ranges due to better BC and less wind drift.
If the bc is .197 as shown on the Barnes site, that would be about 200 yards for retaining at least 2300 fps from a 16".
Tell me about it!
I wonder what is different, and if Barnes will offer it to us poor peons...
yeah really.
Wonder how different they really are.
Does not seem like it would be feasible for barnes to make 2 diff lines of bullets to suit reloaders and manufacturing facilities. At 1.25/round, it might not be out of the realm of possibility. Still that price seems to be on the hide side of manufactured ammo and more than I am willing to pay at this time.
There are folks such as myself who simply will not buy factory made ammo. We probably aren't even a blip on the radar of the major manufacturers but it still would be nice if they would make this bullet available to us as a component. Otherwise, there are good alternatives from the competition.
The standard 45, 50, and 55 gr TSX are all available and typically upset down to 1900 fps.
The Knuckle
01-05-12, 01:16
The standard 45, 50, and 55 gr TSX are all available and typically upset down to 1900 fps.
Just to be clear, is the 50 grain TSX component the same as the Black Hills load?
As noted before, no. The BH purportedly uses a different more robust 50 gr TSX design.
doc, how drastic is the difference in barrier performance ( auto glass and doors) between the new 50 grain tsx and the regular tsx? would you call it night and day? or simply a small improvement?
Small, but noticeable improvement against glass.
The Barnes 45 gr TSX is quite nice out of SBR's...
Probably pretty bad since its such a light bullet. I wonder why they chose this weight in particular. 50grs seems almost too light, I would much rather prefer a 62gr bullet for better performance at range.
Being all copper the 50 gr TSX is probably the same length as a 62 gr M855 projectile, dont quote me on that but Im sure its a lot more similar to a 62 gr than a M193 55gr FMJ.
Generalpie
01-06-12, 03:57
It sounds like the 50 gr used in this load is not the stock bullet as a reloading component but in the boat tail TSX line the BC of a 53 gr is .204, a 70 gr is .314.
It wouldn't be much to plug them into a ballistic calculator to get some ideas on long range performance.
As Doc mentions the 50 is specifically designed for domestic LE type engagements (read that short range) so long range performance isn't as important.
I wish my department would go with these. I get a case of sticker shock when I think about picking some up. :eek:
I used .197, .204 would be a small change. I can run it again tonight.
I may have missed this, but how do the 50gr. and 70gr. TSX 5.56 rounds compare as far as terminal performance, barrier penetration, and range/velocity limitations?
On a side note: I went hog hunting in with the 70gr. TSX (out of 14.5" barrel) and every shot resulted in DRT including behind the shoulder, etc. All shots were <100yds. I was very impressed by it's performance.
The 5.56 mm 70 gr TSX is an outstanding choice for hunting and for long range 250+ engagements. The 5.56 mm BH 50 gr TSX is optimized for ideal penetration and intermediate barrier effects at distances under 250 that are typical for CONUS LE and personal defense use.
Nightvisionary
01-06-12, 18:58
I loaded 6 mm TSX bullets this last hunting season. From what I understand the TSX bullet needs about 2200-2300 FPS for full expansion. At around 2000 FPS only the very tip of the bullet exhibits expansion.
The Nosler Partition bullet has full expansion velocity around 1900 FPS.
I think this is an important thing to keep in mind especially when the ammunition is being used in an SBR or using the heavier TSX .224 loadings at extended ranges. There is a somewhat narrow expansion window for the bullet.
It seems like the TSX reliable expansion range would be similar to the reliable fragmentation range of the M855 or M193.
a 70 grain tsx expands down to 1900 fps. or is it 1800? ( weather or not it is fully or only partially expanded is a mystery to me) if its leaving your muzzle at around 2750 fps..........well, its much, much better than m855 xm193 and other fragmenting rounds as far as range is concerned
http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/ballistics-calculator ........... the bc of the 70gr tsx is .314
it doesn't hit 2200 until 200 yards and doesn't hit 1800 until just before 400 yards
i tried playing around with m855 on the calculator but i forgot its fragmentation threshold, but im pretty sure from a 14.5" barrel and shorter....you will get less than 100 yards or reliable fragmentation.
1slow01Z71
09-02-13, 16:59
Excuse the thread dig, but I was using the search function looking for some guidance on what to start loading for my EOW type ammo stockpile. I have begun the arduous journey of learning to handload so my options are pretty well unlimited. It seems the 50gr TSX is a very good multipurpose round but apparently the BH 50gr TSX bullet is different than what is available to us commoners. Has that changed since the posting of this thread?
I don't plan to shoot any classes or practice with this ammo much, just stockpile a couple K of it should the need arise. Looks to me like the 50gr vmax would be a comparable bullet to allow for cheaper training so these really have my eye.
vicious_cb
09-02-13, 17:44
Being all copper the 50 gr TSX is probably the same length as a 62 gr M855 projectile, dont quote me on that but Im sure its a lot more similar to a 62 gr than a M193 55gr FMJ.
That shouldn't be the case as the 50gr TSX was developed to be used in the old 1/12 twist M16A1 hand me downs some departments are still using.
Excuse the thread dig, but I was using the search function looking for some guidance on what to start loading for my EOW type ammo stockpile. I have begun the arduous journey of learning to handload so my options are pretty well unlimited. It seems the 50gr TSX is a very good multipurpose round but apparently the BH 50gr TSX bullet is different than what is available to us commoners. Has that changed since the posting of this thread?
I don't plan to shoot any classes or practice with this ammo much, just stockpile a couple K of it should the need arise. Looks to me like the 50gr vmax would be a comparable bullet to allow for cheaper training so these really have my eye.
Nope, the 50gr bullet used in the discussed ammo is exclusive for Blackhills only. Considering the shortage I doubt this is going to change any time soon. Honestly you are better off using 55gr FMJs for practice, you can load them for about the same velocities. Even if you load the 50gr vmax to the same spec, you probably won't get the same point of impact due to the differences in bullet length and construction anyway.
You give up a little in the barrier penetrating ability if you go to other TSX rounds (55, 62 or 70g) but they are such good rounds that for me it's worth it.
Don't get me wrong, I have a nice stockpile of the BH 50 grain rounds but haven't seen them for sale in forever. Reason I started reloading the 62 & 70 grainers.
1slow01Z71
09-02-13, 19:14
Bummer, was hoping availability had changed on them. In my searching it seems a lot of people were referencing a thread by DocGKR with his approved list of SD rounds but I haven't been able to find it. Anyone have a link to it?
Since the BH 50gr TSXs aren't available whats the next best thing for a do it all type round?
Bummer, was hoping availability had changed on them. In my searching it seems a lot of people were referencing a thread by DocGKR with his approved list of SD rounds but I haven't been able to find it. Anyone have a link to it?
Since the BH 50gr TSXs aren't available whats the next best thing for a do it all type round?
Best rounds list (ammo oracle) (http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm)
Federal Fusion 64 grain is supposed to be really good and very available, and I think you can get the bullet as a component for reloading. Its the same as the gold dot of same weight. The 5.56 load is preferred, but the fusion is 223.
The better stuff like tbbc is all but impossible to find, and the benefit isn't enough for ME to worry about.
edit:Everything you want to know about Federal Fusion (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/491888_.html)
midaway has the 5.56 50grn black hills ammo
2 box limit.
it was pricey but way cheaper than what i saw advertised here by an individual.
i got 2 boxes and will be ordering more.
midaway has the 5.56 50grn black hills ammo
2 box limit.
it was pricey but way cheaper than what i saw advertised here by an individual.
i got 2 boxes and will be ordering more.
I got my two from Midway and got 10 boxes from Triad Tactical but he sold out in 3 hours. I had requested to be notified by both sites when the 50 TSX was in stock and didn't waste any time when the emails came through. Wish I had enough $$$ for a thousand but 600 rounds will have to do for now.
i wonder which dept does get most of this ammo
and how much is produced
1slow01Z71
09-22-13, 17:21
I know theyre not the same as the BHs loads but midway has the 50gr TSXs in stock. I picked up a couple hundred to try out. Once my SBR stamp gets approved Ill be throwing an 11.5" barrel on my lower so these should work well. May try out the heavier ones to at a later date as well.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/912424/barnes-triple-shock-x-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-50-grain-hollow-point-flat-base-lead-free-box-of-50
I finally got around to chroning my handloaded Barnes 70 grain TSXs, they averaged 2583fps using Hodgdon BLC-2, '09LC brass, and Wolf SRM primers out of my SIG 556s with 5.56mm NATO chamber and 16" barrel with 1:7" twist. I have shot over 500 of these rounds so far without a problem and have another 1,500 ready to go. These rounds shoot 1 MOA day and night:
http://www.phossil.com/thom/TC/TSX%20Hog/TSX4.jpg
http://www.phossil.com/thom/RWS%2034%20Pellet/SIG%20Chrono.jpg
http://www.phossil.com/thom/RWS%2034%20Pellet/Barnes%2070%20Chrono.jpg
They have been absolutely devastating on hogs on ranges out to 225 yards and allow me to hit them where the heavy OTM Hornady 75gr, Nosler 77 gr, Sierra 77 grain will not penetrate.
Here are two I shot in in the head in my front yard last Friday night:
http://www.phossil.com/thom/Night%20Vision/FLIR%20T70/Front%20Yard%20Hogs/Head%20Shot1.jpg
http://www.phossil.com/thom/Night%20Vision/FLIR%20T70/Front%20Yard%20Hogs/Head%20Shot3.jpg
Both hogs dropped in their tracks, DRT.
In my experience harvesting 600+ hogs with these bullets, it does not get any better than the Barnes 70gr TSX.
Thanks for the info! Is that expanded bullet from a hog?
Thanks for the info! Is that expanded bullet from a hog?
The bullet in question above penetrated the shoulder (don't try this with any OTM) and shield of a 325 pound hog @ 175 yards range and was recovered during necropsy embedded in the shoulder of the far side after complete penetration through the thoracic cavity with pulverized lungs and heart.
Skypup I'd like to thank you for the reports and pics. Have you done any management work with the BHA 50TSX factory load yet?
Thanks,
Keith
Not yet, but I did load up 200 of the 62 grain Barnes TSX and have experienced similar results with them too so far.....
I like how long these bullets are. It is freaky how well they petal out and perform, Barnes seriously engineered this bullets to a "T"!
Here is the 400+ pound hog that petaled 70 grain TSX bullet came out of, one shot @ 175 yards.....
http://www.phossil.com/thom/TC/Monster%20Hog%20II/Monster%20Hog%20IIA.jpg
P.S. that is not a plastic toy SIG 556!:p
Does the neighbor know you shot his cow? :p That is one big piggy!
That porker right there could put a serious hurt on you. Well, he used to be able to anyway :D
1slow01Z71
10-08-13, 13:03
What would be a good training bullet to get similar POI as the 50gerbarnes? Out of my stash of similar weighted 224 projectiles I havent found one with the same ogive to base length.
ATG has this in stock right now not sure how long it will last.
i would hope this new stuff black hills is producing is identical to the older stuff
JDGriffin85
01-14-15, 13:11
31046
On the left is BH 5.56 50gr TSX and on the right is XM193 55gr both at 50 yards using Aimpoint in 14.5" barrel with 1/7 twist. RD is zeroed at 50 yards using the XM193... 3" high for the TSX seems like a pretty significant POI shift to me for 50 yards. has anybody else encountered this? Any recommendations for a different practice ammo that shoots similar to the BH 50gr TSX?
31046
On the left is BH 5.56 50gr TSX and on the right is XM193 55gr both at 50 yards using Aimpoint in 14.5" barrel with 1/7 twist. RD is zeroed at 50 yards using the XM193... 3" high for the TSX seems like a pretty significant POI shift to me for 50 yards. has anybody else encountered this? Any recommendations for a different practice ammo that shoots similar to the BH 50gr TSX?
The 50gr TSX lands high for me.
31046
On the left is BH 5.56 50gr TSX and on the right is XM193 55gr both at 50 yards using Aimpoint in 14.5" barrel with 1/7 twist. RD is zeroed at 50 yards using the XM193... 3" high for the TSX seems like a pretty significant POI shift to me for 50 yards. has anybody else encountered this? Any recommendations for a different practice ammo that shoots similar to the BH 50gr TSX?
A while back I asked the same question and DocGKR had said that pretty much any 55 gr would be close. Not the story in your case it would appear.
I'm sorry I don't have any big answers for you. I have my 16", 1/7 twist BCM zeroed at 50 yards with the BH 50g TSX and have only noticed that it prints about 1-1.5" higher at 50 yards than my handloaded 5.56 70 gr TSX. We use the 62g M855 for training and it has been just fine, accuracy wise for our purposes, but admittedly, most of the time we're well inside 50 yards.
I would like to hit the range sometime in the next couple weeks and I will try some comparison at 50 yds with the green tip and see where it prints compared to the BH 50 grainers and I'll post back here.
31046
On the left is BH 5.56 50gr TSX and on the right is XM193 55gr both at 50 yards using Aimpoint in 14.5" barrel with 1/7 twist. RD is zeroed at 50 yards using the XM193... 3" high for the TSX seems like a pretty significant POI shift to me for 50 yards. has anybody else encountered this? Any recommendations for a different practice ammo that shoots similar to the BH 50gr TSX?
I have windage POI changes with BHA 5.56 50TSX from most other .223/5.56 loadings (PMC Bronze to BHA 77gr Match) with both a 6920 and DDM4V1LW.
Keith
If you're seeing drastic elevation changes in POI then it's time to put a chronograph to the black hills load and then use a chronograph to select practice ammo of the same MV. I'm thinking the M193 you're shooting is under spec. for velocity.
Same here. The 50TSX shot 4" higher than all other ammo, including 55gr FMJ. It shoots high in every gun I have tried. I have switched to using the 62TSX which has the same general POI as other ammo.
Ordered a box this week to replace some used and was surprised to see it is now designated as "optimized" and "water resistant." Very noticeable sealer at case mouth and around primer. 39092 39093
Ordered a box this week to replace some used and was surprised to see it is now designated as "optimized" and "water resistant." Very noticeable sealer at case mouth and around primer. 39092 39093
Cool! Did you find it local or online?
Mr. Goodtimes
08-12-16, 13:21
I'm thinking about purchasing some of the 50gr TSX as a general purpose load for home defense, however would this load also be suitable for Florida sized deer and pig or would I be better off with the 70gr?
I've kindof come to prefer the 55gr GMX. It penetrates much more, and it is HOT! Accurate, as well, and typically with less POI shift than the 50gr TSX. I just prefer it over-all, and it seems to expand better/penetrate more on water jugs at 100 yards, for me. the BC is significantly higher, it shoots flatter, it doesn't shed its petals as easily. Basically, It's full of win compared to the Barnes load.
Mr. Goodtimes
08-13-16, 05:01
I've kindof come to prefer the 55gr GMX. It penetrates much more, and it is HOT! Accurate, as well, and typically with less POI shift than the 50gr TSX. I just prefer it over-all, and it seems to expand better/penetrate more on water jugs at 100 yards, for me. the BC is significantly higher, it shoots flatter, it doesn't shed its petals as easily. Basically, It's full of win compared to the Barnes load.
Awesome stuff. I'll have to stock up. The local shop around here is a huge Hornady dealer so this stuff should be fairly easy for me to get.
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vicious_cb
08-13-16, 14:18
Awesome stuff. I'll have to stock up. The local shop around here is a huge Hornady dealer so this stuff should be fairly easy for me to get.
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What are you paying locally? Everywhere Ive seen has it over $1 per round. As much as I love the performance of monolithic solids I can't really justify the cost when Gold Dot/Fusion is going for .50 cents per round.
Mr. Goodtimes
08-13-16, 20:01
What are you paying locally? Everywhere Ive seen has it over $1 per round. As much as I love the performance of monolithic solids I can't really justify the cost when Gold Dot/Fusion is going for .50 cents per round.
$21.79 for 20 rds.
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