View Full Version : Are you prepared for civil unrest?
Pages :
1
2
3
[
4]
5
6
7
8
9
did you know that? they get "price supports", they get paid to NOT plant crops, quite often, in fact. HUGE agriculture corporations get these bennies, not just mom and pop down on the farm, it's TOTAL bs.
While I'm aware of the farm subsidies, I doubt we'll see farmers driving combines down urban streets during riots throwing bails of hay through shop windows.
whiteknuckels
08-09-11, 17:55
where i live, and they came in my home they would be shot...
A pretty good article detailing riots and protests in Great Britian, Israel, Greece, Spain, Portugal, the Philippines, China and Syria. http://www.cnbc.com/id/44073673
There are many people around the world who are getting fed up with their governments. I'm not saying I agree with their actions or their causes but you can't deny that there is a lot of unrest on a global wide basis. We have something like 40,000 union employees protesting Verizon currently that I saw on the news earlier.
4x4twenty6
08-09-11, 18:33
Clarkm: I really do not believe our Gov't can be compared to the ones you described. I believe we are beyond a mass gov't kill off of citizens.
I also dont need to get my calculator. You go ahead and bug out then return when things get better so you can reap the benefits of something you didnt fight for.
Anyone else agree that, an order to destroy citizens of this country by our own gov't using todays soldiers is a little too much of far fetched idea?
I agree with LRS143 that we will have soldiers going AWOL.
The gov't knows the loss of life would be immense because Americans will protect their constitutional rights. The soldiers know this too.
Also, if there are violent riots then they should be met with the same level of force. If less lethal works then great! If they bring firearms then they have a rude awakening coming to them.
We have had riots where the police used tear gas, bean bag guns and such to deter crowds.
hatidua: Unless you were in New Orleans during that whole incident I dont see how you are qualified to judge those guys based solely on what the news has decided to broadcast. I am not condoning their actions but tread lightly. It was far worse down there than what the media showed. No doubt mistakes were made.
QuietShootr
08-09-11, 18:42
Clarkm: I really do not believe our Gov't can be compared to the ones you described. I believe we are beyond a mass gov't kill off of citizens.
I also dont need to get my calculator. You go ahead and bug out then return when things get better so you can reap the benefits of something you didnt fight for.
Anyone else agree that, an order to destroy citizens of this country by our own gov't using todays soldiers is a little too much of far fetched idea?
No, it isn't. It's unlikely RIGHT NOW...but it is not impossible. It wouldn't be the first time, either. Google the Bonus Army for the first time in modern times.
I agree with LRS143 that we will have soldiers going AWOL.
The gov't knows the loss of life would be immense because Americans will protect their constitutional rights. The soldiers know this too.
I disagree. I believe most people will huff and puff and turn their guns in when they're told to do so. And most soldiers will do what they're told, as will most police.
Also, if there are violent riots then they should be met with the same level of force. If less lethal works then great! If they bring firearms then they have a rude awakening coming to them.
We have had riots where the police used tear gas, bean bag guns and such to deter crowds.
hatidua: Unless you were in New Orleans during that whole incident I dont see how you are qualified to judge those guys based solely on what the news has decided to broadcast. I am not condoning their actions but tread lightly. It was far worse down there than what the media showed. No doubt mistakes were made.
There was shit happening down there that will never make the papers. But the cops being part of the looting was well documented.
Answers in red.
4x4twenty6
08-09-11, 19:19
Quietshootr: I like the way you addressed my post by highlighting your opinion under mine. Very professional way to handle things unlike how some people did before the thread was shut down the first time.
I will definitely google Bonus Army, im cooking right now so i can exactly check it out.
I dont think i am being Naive saying that i think people will stand up for the constitutional rights. Maybe I am giving people a little too much credit. I hope not. It was be sad to let the constitution get tossed out.
If the gov't tried to take peoples guns I truly think it would turn out bad. Soldiers and Police are essentially civilians too once they uniform comes off, even though police for example have privilages when it comes to carrying while off duty.
No doubt NOPD is one ****ed up dept. with an incredible amount of shit bags. I know trust me. I was mainly speaking of the Danziger incident.
But you are correct. Police were taking tv's and cadillacs too. ****ing Embarassment. I will never forget that big fat cunt they showed on tv in uniform with a basket full of useless shit. I was infuriated.
But with Danziger, they ****ed up because they lied.
If they were truly shot at, which they probably were, and perceived a threat and returned fire then they should have said that. Not covered it up. They saw an opening to not have to go through the investigatory methods associated with a shooting and they thought they could get away with that part.
I do not believe they murdered those people in cold blood.
Belmont31R
08-09-11, 19:32
All it takes is the right psychology and keeping people out of the loop. Bases can shut down communications and keep people in the dark. All they are told is what their COC tells them.
Im not accusing our military of being ready to shoot people or anything like that...I was a soldier for 6 years...just that things can be manipulated and sensitized so people don't know why they are going out there other than being a given a mission of clear this block of any XYZ.
Think of it from the soldier's prospective of enjoying a nice weekend with the family, and they get a call to form at 1600 at Sunday night. Told mass looting, rape, and murder is happening. Our mission is to restore order and bring food and water to the residents. Some armed resistance threatening our relief efforts. Soldiers will do what soldiers will do, and that is protect the guy to the left and right of them. They are given a "good" mission, and those effecting delivering water and food are bad. Or we can't get help to those who need it before this block is cleared of people firing on cops and military. People are trained to follow orders not think.
And no Im not talking about lining people up against a wall and opening fire. Im just saying its pretty easy to tell people they are doing the right thing when you start talking about humanitarian assistance and helping people. Just comes along with that you have to search houses for armed people and those "holding up" the relief efforts. A soldier has spent maybe years becoming friends with the guys they are with, countless days and months training together, drinking together, sharing lifes ills, ect. Some dude's life who is refusing evacuation or whatever "help" they are enforcing is low on the care o meter
I will definitely google Bonus Army, im cooking right now so i can exactly check it out.
I have a great book on The Bonus Army but I'll have to dig it out of the library box to find the exact title. To sum it up I don't have near the respect for MacArthur or Patton after learning of their complicity in these actions against United States war veterans.
Here's a short video with a few highlights: http://youtu.be/dWvCCxOUsM8
Another video, part 1, of a much longer and much more detailed mini-documentary: http://youtu.be/IiMuzkpT8Xs Part 2 here: http://youtu.be/vlegmV5OJtM
Government firing on it's own people.....it likely entirely depends on how the story is delivered to those wearing uniforms holding the rifles who are trained to follow orders. While the U.S. isn't necessarily like any other country, and no other country is like the U.S., look how the governments of some other countries frame the discontented:
-al-Assad claims those doing the protesting are terrorists, and thus any actions are justified.
-Gaddafi claims those on the opposite team are linked to al qaeda, bombing entire cities thus justified.
-China always claims any dissent is a threat to social order, Tainanmen Square comes to mind.
-Indonesia, when East Timor broke away killed left & right under the guise of terrorists (those vicious Catholics and all...:rolleyes:).
No, those are not situations in the U.S. but for just a second give some thought to the notion that governments are staffed by humans, and humans are not infallible, no matter what country issues their passport.
The list could be rather eternal but I suspect if the government (most ANY government) portrayed unrest as being fomented by "terrorists" or was a threat to 'national security' (real or imagined), you'd see plenty of lead flying at civilians that had been labeled terrorists. If the story is properly authored, the rest of society will go along and claim it was a good thing to exterminate the 'terrorists' as well. As the saying goes, the victors write the history books.
Were Randy Weavers' wife, son, and dog really a threat to society? -I don't recall a peep of media outcry on those shootings.
4x4twenty6
08-09-11, 20:50
The last few posts regarding gov't and such, do put things into perspective for me.
Manipulating situations to fit the reaction that they are looking for, that benefits an agenda, is something I would not put past our gov't.
But a part of me still believes we are better, stronger and smarter (to an extent) than to allow our gov't to become the enemy and use our own military against us.
I think at this point our biggest threat to a societal breakdown is the entitlement class rioting and these stupid ****ing kids who are apart of the entitlement upbringing with these flash mobs. In addition to that other kids from different walks of life joining just to have fun destroying shit.
Long Term though, I really dont know how i feel about what it will take to push it to the absolute limit. I can speculate but i still cant accurately wrap my head around it.
Some of those on the left think we are the greatest threat with our bibles and our guns.
Government firing on it's own people.....it likely entirely depends on how the story is delivered to those wearing uniforms holding the rifles who are trained to follow orders...
No, those are not situations in the U.S. but for just a second give some thought to the notion that governments are staffed by humans, and humans are not infallible, no matter what country issues their passport.
The list could be rather eternal but I suspect if the government (most ANY government) portrayed unrest as being fomented by "terrorists" or was a threat to 'national security' (real or imagined), you'd see plenty of lead flying at civilians that had been labeled terrorists. If the story is properly authored, the rest of society will go along and claim it was a good thing to exterminate the 'terrorists' as well. As the saying goes, the victors write the history books.
Were Randy Weavers' wife, son, and dog really a threat to society? -I don't recall a peep of media outcry on those shootings.
You make some very good points. It all depends on how the government and media portray whatever incident is currently happening in the news. The Branch Davidians and the Waco incident were a prime example of creative government and media reporting as well.
I know I'm equally guilty of the thread drift but let's try to steer it back to the original intent. Have a good evening.
Traveshamockery
08-09-11, 21:48
The fact is that if the US military were ever turned loose on our populace, it would be a bad frickin' day, and probably the end of our country as we know it.
We must do whatever we can to remain vigilant and elect the best people we can (which won't necessarily be the best people overall) that will honor our founding principles and protect our civil rights.
When you watch a movie like V for Vendetta, then look at the rioting and fear in England today, it's pretty easy to connect the dots as to how a "reasonable" legislative and law enforcement response to quell the chaos could actually transition quite smoothly over a period of a couple decades into a totalitarian police state.
People are actually suggesting that Blackberry's messaging service be shut down to prevent protestors from communicating. How long do you think it'll be before a surveillance state like Great Britain will require Facebook and Twitter to allow deep-level access to law enforcement? For the good of the people, of course. And people will welcome it, saying things like "Well, I have nothing to hide." Heck, we already do it on a deeper level today, letting $8/hr mental midget former burger-flippers grope us at airport checkpoints.
4x4twenty6
08-09-11, 22:37
Big Government is a Big Failure.
I have nothing to hide but I feel like they push the issue too much. Speed cameras are an example of, as a police officer I found myself wishing I could destroy some of those ****ing things. It is not right to have such things like that.
The fact is our money is squandered on a bunch of failing programs and seemingly unconstitutional programs.
I would like to hear some opinions on what i heard going on in London. There is apparently a group of about 1000 civilians who were going to come out against the rioters to try and assist against the uprising? Since we are probably due for another mob, do you think it is right for civilians our country to show up in force against something like this or should it be left up to police.
As a LEO I would encourage people to stay home and let us do our job.
BUT, it would seriously piss me off as a civilian to see this happening and I would want to snatch up a few of these little ****s and knock the shit out of them and drag them to the nearest paddy wagon.
They should know that not only are the police not going to tolerate this behavior but neither will the common man.
Sorry about that. That's what happens when my 24 y.o. kid gets on my computer.
Clarkm: I really do not believe our Gov't can be compared to the ones you described. I believe we are beyond a mass gov't kill off of citizens.
I also dont need to get my calculator. You go ahead and bug out then return when things get better so you can reap the benefits of something you didnt fight for.
Anyone else agree that, an order to destroy citizens of this country by our own gov't using todays soldiers is a little too much of far fetched idea?
I agree with LRS143 that we will have soldiers going AWOL.
The gov't knows the loss of life would be immense because Americans will protect their constitutional rights. The soldiers know this too.
Also, if there are violent riots then they should be met with the same level of force. If less lethal works then great! If they bring firearms then they have a rude awakening coming to them.
We have had riots where the police used tear gas, bean bag guns and such to deter crowds.
hatidua: Unless you were in New Orleans during that whole incident I dont see how you are qualified to judge those guys based solely on what the news has decided to broadcast. I am not condoning their actions but tread lightly. It was far worse down there than what the media showed. No doubt mistakes were made.
We could use some cleansing is certain areas....
.
That's for darn sure! As far as I am concerned, everyone in section 8 housing should be taken down to the animal shelter, cut up into steaks, and fed to the dogs. That would be the only useful thing they did in their entire lives.
As for mobs, yes, they are very dangerous. Unfortunately the welfare entitlement system makes them answerable to no one. Unlike the working man, they do not have to make themselves useful or even be nice in order to live. They can be as nasty as they want and the rent is still paid, health care is still free, the food stamp card still works etc. Damn parasites.
Traveshamockery
08-09-11, 23:13
I would like to hear some opinions on what i heard going on in London. There is apparently a group of about 1000 civilians who were going to come out against the rioters to try and assist against the uprising? Since we are probably due for another mob, do you think it is right for civilians our country to show up in force against something like this or should it be left up to police.
As a LEO I would encourage people to stay home and let us do our job.
I don't think riots of this type could last that long in most areas of the USA. Even in big liberal cities, the police are basically paramilitary forces and they're willing and able to use water cannons, bean bag guns, rubber bullets, and other less-lethal techniques. The UK has thus far been unwilling to do anything to physically deter the rioters, and that just wouldn't happen here.
Also, as soon as rioters started getting shot in self-defense by armed citizens, the news would spread quickly among rioters.
Just my opinion...no expert, just a student of human behavior and an interested observer.
4x4twenty6
08-09-11, 23:29
Clarkm: lol. Hard to disagree with your last post.
Travesh: good points. We broke a guys femur with a 37mm less lethal round on a swat roll. Basically a big ass rubber bullet. ****ed his shit up real bad but it solved the problem. I don't know if we would do that again. If it would have hit him in the chest or head it would have killed him.
They need to start pipping cans of gas in London. That shit is awful. I wOuld rather get tased than get gassed or pepper sprayed.
Quick question from those of you that are concerned with the likelihood of an EMP type attack, or solar flares causing EMP-like effects, what are you doing to prepare for that?
Clarkm: lol. Hard to disagree with your last post.
OK, go ahead and agree with Grandpa.
4x4twenty6
08-10-11, 00:09
I am going to bend over and kiss my ass good bye. haha!
That type of situation warrants special considerations. That would absolutely be one of the most catastrophic events.
That would cause much of the same situations in a zombie attack.
You would have rioting and mass confusion. Mass attacks on people.
Quick question from those of you that are concerned with the likelihood of an EMP type attack, or solar flares causing EMP-like effects, what are you doing to prepare for that?
Say a quick prayer, slam the first round in the chamber, & hold on for the ride.
Say a quick prayer, slam the first round in the chamber, & hold on for the ride.
No doubt that it would be TEOTWAWKI.
I meant specifically, are any of you storing things such as electronics without batteries, unplugged etc...? How are you protecting your own survival tools and devices.
Society will obviously be changed forever.
Honestly, I haven't prepared for that what-so-ever, being as though it's the least likely to happen, imo (and maybe that's short-sighted of me). At least any more than I already am, because a lot of the prep crosses over, water, food, med kit, weapons & ammo etc. but nothing of the way of protecting electronics etc...
I think some form of EMP is almost inevitable (so damn HUGELY destructive for such little cost that some enemy is bound to do it eventually in the next 50 years). BUT, I am doing little to protect against it or prepare for that specific circumstance. The reason is that I think it would put our country so far back in technology that I don't know if there would be much use for me to have a few protected electronics while the rest of the country is in the 1880s. And how long would most electronics last before they broke down and could not be repaired?
I guess my main preparation is to avoid electronics when possible or to have alternative manual tools: such as glass optics for rifles instead of, or to supplement, electronic sights; have a broad array of sturdy hand tools as well as the more convenient power tools; be versed in use of map and compass for wilderness navigation as well as using a GPS; and have home based alternatives for water purification, sanitation, lights, etc that do not rely on the city provided utilities, etc.
Clarkm: I really do not believe our Gov't can be compared to the ones you described. I believe we are beyond a mass gov't kill off of citizens.
You never can tell. It always starts small that then the next thing that you know you are being rounded up and put into a camp. None of the group in history started off in power and did not start the slaughter until they have full power.
I also dont need to get my calculator. You go ahead and bug out then return when things get better so you can reap the benefits of something you didnt fight for.
Anyone else agree that, an order to destroy citizens of this country by our own gov't using todays soldiers is a little too much of far fetched idea?
I agree with LRS143 that we will have soldiers going AWOL.
The gov't knows the loss of life would be immense because Americans will protect their constitutional rights. The soldiers know this too.
Also, if there are violent riots then they should be met with the same level of force. If less lethal works then great! If they bring firearms then they have a rude awakening coming to them.
It is not as farfetched as you think. All the GOV has to do is emplace their own leaders and start to weed out the leadership in the MIL that does not think like them. The lower enlisted will follow suit of their leaders. Yes there will be some that desert. They will be made examples of and then that will keep the rest in line. It is a simple process. It just takes a few years t start it up and then you have a MIL that will shoot its own people.
I am not sure if you know this but the 7ID had artillery set up and ready (rounds in the chamber and sighted in) to use in LA during the riots. Were there people saying that it would be wrong to do so? My friend that was there said that no one said a thing and that everyone just did their duty. Think about that.
We have had riots where the police used tear gas, bean bag guns and such to deter crowds.
hatidua: Unless you were in New Orleans during that whole incident I dont see how you are qualified to judge those guys based solely on what the news has decided to broadcast. I am not condoning their actions but tread lightly. It was far worse down there than what the media showed. No doubt mistakes were made.
I think some form of EMP is almost inevitable (so damn HUGELY destructive for such little cost that some enemy is bound to do it eventually in the next 50 years). BUT, I am doing little to protect against it or prepare for that specific circumstance. The reason is that I think it would put our country so far back in technology that I don't know if there would be much use for me to have a few protected electronics while the rest of the country is in the 1880s. And how long would most electronics last before they broke down and could not be repaired?
I guess my main preparation is to avoid electronics when possible or to have alternative manual tools: such as glass optics for rifles instead of, or to supplement, electronic sights; have a broad array of sturdy hand tools as well as the more convenient power tools; be versed in use of map and compass for wilderness navigation as well as using a GPS; and have home based alternatives for water purification, sanitation, lights, etc that do not rely on the city provided utilities, etc.
Just a few random thoughts:
I have a few Motorola walkie-talkies, that should be useful in a SHTF scenario, that I have stored with fully charged batteries taped to them with blue painter's tape.
I was also thinking about EMPs frying our red dot sights...
There were other threads about comms, and the thought was that if things were plugged in and powered, the EMP would fry them.
Lastly, do home solar systems require circuitry to operate? Would a EMP render your whole solar system useless?
Just a few random thoughts:
I have a few Motorola walkie-talkies, that should be useful in a SHTF scenario, that I have stored with fully charged batteries taped to them with blue painter's tape.
I was also thinking about EMPs frying our red dot sights...
There were other threads about comms, and the thought was that if things were plugged in and powered, the EMP would fry them.
Lastly, do home solar systems require circuitry to operate? Would a EMP render your whole solar system useless?
Those are some good points. That is why I have an TA33GH ACOG on my TRUE SHTF weapon. Just in case.
I am not sure how an EMP would effect stuff without pow to it. I have some stuff with battries removed and in a .50 CAL ammo can in a mettal shed......about all I can do at this point.
Just a Jarhead
08-10-11, 03:46
double post...deleted
Just a Jarhead
08-10-11, 03:52
Clarkm: I really do not believe our Gov't can be compared to the ones you described. I believe we are beyond a mass gov't kill off of citizens.
I put nothing out of the realm of possibility. We're seeing unprecedented evil all around the globe. At the risk of being labeled a lunatic..."almost on biblical proportions?" I haven't a clue, like anyone else, if we've entered into the darkest of days, a time described as no other in the history of man, a time of great wealth, the greatest wealth in the history of the world, then to be followed by unprecedented evil, chaos and destruction. A time when "right is wrong & wrong is right" when everything will be upside down.
No one likes to talk about this shit out of fear of being labeled a religious qook. And understandbly so. Like I said, I haven't a clue if we're there yet but I sure wouldn't doubt it. The signs are everywhere. And if & when that is the case, we'll see & experience the most unimaginable of horrors. The worst horror movie x 1000.
I will say that this administration and their bevy of close friends & odd scary characters, ala George Soro's to Bill Ayers scare the shit out of me. I've never seen a more evil sinister bunch. My inner senses scream "be on alert" & I'm glued to history watching how this eventually all unfolds. Remember this on Bill Ayers?Some scary shit about the plan & need to kill upto 25 million Americans after the progressive take over. . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RIsrPic6Qg
It's best that we just jump right over everything I said above and pretend I didn't say it before we're really labeled lunatics and this thread gets shut down again on a conversation based on the above. This isn't the place for that type of discussion. But I wanted to throw it out there and stress my point that nothing is beyond the realm of possibility in today's crazy world.
Quick question from those of you that are concerned with the likelihood of an EMP type attack, or solar flares causing EMP-like effects, what are you doing to prepare for that?
I've built a few faraday cages to house some electronics like radios, gps, and my coffee maker. I also have a 3' spike in the ground next to my driveway that I ground the frame of my Land Rover to when parked.
QuietShootr
08-10-11, 07:29
I've built a few faraday cages to house some electronics like radios, gps, and my coffee maker. I also have a 3' spike in the ground next to my driveway that I ground the frame of my Land Rover to when parked.
It's actually quite easy to turn a gun safe into a Faraday cage. You simply need to ground it and replace the door seals with conductive ones like those used on SCIF doors (can be ordered on the net.) After removing the paint under the seals, of course. Check everything with a meter to ensure good connectivity and you're good to go.
That is a good idea. I will have to look into that.
4x4twenty6
08-10-11, 10:58
All I can say about that video is WTF!
I like to think that i keep myself pretty informed but Christ man I have never even heard of that.
I am 25 years old and my parents are not too politically involved. I was educate about things growing up but there are a lot of things that I learned on my own.
I was wrong, I do not put that type of behavior past our gov't especially the current leaders. I love this thread and conversation we are having guys thanks for all the great insight.
On to the EMP, I was under the impression that an EMP would damage the circuit of electronic devices to the point were it would not be able function whether the batteries were in or out.
QuietShootr
08-10-11, 11:06
All I can say about that video is WTF!
I like to think that i keep myself pretty informed but Christ man I have never even heard of that.
I am 25 years old and my parents are not too politically involved. I was educate about things growing up but there are a lot of things that I learned on my own.
I was wrong, I do not put that type of behavior past our gov't especially the current leaders. I love this thread and conversation we are having guys thanks for all the great insight.
Which video? And are you saying your mind has changed after learning about the Bonus Army?
4x4twenty6
08-10-11, 11:11
The Bonus Army, The video about George Soros and all of his cronies in that political group from back in the day. I believe this current administration is capable of doing it. It is ****ing sickening.
QuietShootr
08-10-11, 11:25
The Bonus Army, The video about George Soros and all of his cronies in that political group from back in the day. I believe this current administration is capable of doing it. It is ****ing sickening.
That's quite a change in mindset from a couple of days ago.
Welcome to opening your eyes another few degrees. :meeting: Just don't take the blue pill again.
4x4twenty6
08-10-11, 11:37
It is hard to argue with well documented facts.
I was able to regurgitate it before it opened. haha
Wasnt Obama trying to create a national police force instead of separate municipal police and sheriffs dept. who are run by the state?
I remember seeing an article on a police website and it saying something about funding and training and large scale National Police force. I thought it was strange and that it sounded a lot like a government police force separate from the military, fbi, cia and local police. A completely new agency. ****ing insane.
I keep Digressing, I read last night that we are supposed to reach a peek in Solar Activity in 2012. Meaning stronger and more frequent solar flares than the ones we saw a few years ago which caused northern lights to be seen in Texas.
What can we do to protect ourselves from this besides basic preparation for the coming of S hitting the F.
Just a Jarhead
08-10-11, 11:51
I read last night that we are supposed to reach a peek in Solar Activity in 2012. Meaning stronger and more frequent solar flares than the ones we saw a few years ago which caused northern lights to be seen in Texas.
The flare yesterday was the strongest since 2008 http://www.space.com/12580-sun-unleashes-major-solar-flare.html
However it occurred on the opposite side facing away from earth at the time which was good for us regarding disruptions. On the severity scale they are graded C, M, X with X being the strongest category and C being the mildest.
Without going back and looking I think it was x 7.0
Yes he wanted to create a civilian force that was as well equipped as our military that only answered to him. This is a great example (if it were to succeed) of how one becomes a dictator. obama would abuse this and bring the hammer down on anyone that opposed him. What f'n balls to even suggest this. I'm so glad I'm out of the military! I would have had a real hard time recognizing that pethetic **** as my commander in chief.
The effects of an EMP blast whether solar or nuclear detonation is a wild card. There is some historical evidence from the 1800s and telegraph wires, etc. And there is some US testing. But who knows what intensity an actual attack or solar event would produce? It could just take down the power grid in a region for a few weeks, or it could reset our entire country or continent to the 1800s.
My understanding is that an EMP would have the most damaging effect on long conductive lines and very fine electronic circuits. Transmission lines, telephone lines and switching equipment, computers (desk, car controls, factory controls, etc), transistor radios, etc. Since the overload is an induced current it may not matter if the device is plugged into the grid or not. Electrical equipment may be less at risk, like refrigerators, ovens, etc., and vacuum tube radios.
I think protecting some key pieces of equipment would be sensible but also question whether it will be useful if there is no grid or high tech industry left. I like the ideas of personal comms since they could last for years (assuming you have the batteries) and would be useful independent of any grid or industry. Something like a computer may be less useful in a long term grid down situation, but a PDA might be better.
Makes sense to protect some electrical that would be independently useful, and also to have non-electronic/electrical equipment as primary or secondary tools available. Which brings up an interesting aspect. Our western world has become more and more oriented to online interaction, social networking, etc. How many people would be lost without the sophisticated online community access of the Internet because they spend so much time interacting with like minded people around the world but not their own neighbors? In a grid down situation lasting months, years or decades the enighbors and local friends are going to be important resources and support.
4x4twenty6
08-10-11, 12:42
When Obama loses the next election I think we will see some sort of an uproar. Especially if republicans get the house, senate and presidency. I think the left will make a call to action against us.
I mean he has already told people to do just that with the debt issue.
Oh and i just heard that the white house has given sony pictures access to info and documents to make a movie about the attack and killing of bin laden and they want to release it next october before the election. HOW ****ING CONVENIENT!
Crazy to watch the world markets all dive along with ours. I don't see us crashing into chaos right now, but this is certainly how it could start.
Crazy to watch the world markets all dive along with ours. I don't see us crashing into chaos right now, but this is certainly how it could start.
Few people really take the time to think about how intertwined our economy is with the rest of the world. All too often people take the "America, **** Yeah!" attitude and fail to realize that we live on a large planet that's been made very small through technology and we're very dependent on other countries and outside resources. There will be major ramifications on a global basis if any of the major EU countries or the U.S. continue to downgrade.
I'm not predicting that the world's gonna end tomorrow and regardless of whether you believe that the S may HTF food prices are going to continue to rise and you might as well buy it while it's cheaper today. Your dollar is being devalued every single day through the Fed and inflation while food prices continue to rise. It's not brain surgery and if you choose to buy more expensive food with dollars that are worth less in the future than you're pretty damn dumb in my opinion.
Gold hit $1800 an ounce today and is currently hovering slightly below that. Just something I find interesting but really have no need to discuss.
Philly - Mob attacks man with brass knuckles... Skull fractured in 3 places. I say this without any sense of sarcasm, the world is a different place, be vigilent and be prepared. http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/08/09/third-flash-mob-attack-reported/
4x4twenty6
08-10-11, 16:38
What will it take for these people to defend themselves?
It seems to be happening a lot up north. These stupid asses dont realize that this shit really dont go on nearly as much in the south.
God forbid if one of these useless crap sacks attacks one of us. There will be blood.
I was telling my wife what has been going on because she has been completely absorbed in work for the past two months and working 12 to 16 hours a day so she is clueless, all she could say was WTF?
He should have pulled out his pistol from under his little bike shirt... Oh wait, he probably doesn't carry one with him. I tell ya, if this continues to elevate daily we will be dealing with something pretty serious soon. Forget the incompetent terrorists trying to cause trouble, as soon as these jack asses pull something like this in the wrong part of the country it will tip.
He should have pulled out his pistol from under his little bike shirt... Oh wait, he probably doesn't carry one with him. I tell ya, if this continues to elevate daily we will be dealing with something pretty serious soon. Forget the incompetent terrorists trying to cause trouble, as soon as these jack asses pull something like this in the wrong part of the country it will tip.
You only hope that they're smart enough to know better...but that might be giving them too much credit.
4x4twenty6
08-10-11, 17:14
They are not smart enough or the right person hasnt stood up to them yet.... or both.
I would like to see those "flash mobs" of "youths" (press code word for black hooligans) get their asses shot off. Today's headline is that law enforcement is looking into whether there is a racial component to the attacks. You gotta be kidding me!
There is speculation that France and Germany will both lose their AAA rating due to bailing out Spain and Italy. If this happens be prepared to see even more unrest, rioting and what's happening in London in these countries in the not too distant future.
4x4twenty6
08-10-11, 19:07
If the left gets their way and cuts military like they want are going to be in serious danger.
With fewer taxes being collected it is going to start affecting law enforcement even more too. Businesses and individuals are seriously going to have to start protecting themselves because cops are going to be stretched even thinner.
My Local PD was thrown under the bus today in a news article that quoted someone saying they were 43 officers short just in patrol division. That does not help at all. It isnt a big dept to begin with for a capitol city.
There is a tax coming up in September to increase funding for schools, fire dept. and police.
There isnt an ice cubes chance in hell of that getting passed.
I am one of 8 that they are hiring to go to the patrol division after a short refresher academy. We are really going to get stretched thin if it gets bad.
At a big concert in May they had a huge fight between a few hundred kids. It wasnt classified as a flash mob, it was more of a damn gang fight. They have since stepped up patrol in the downtown area after multiple shootings, a few being officer involved.
It's actually quite easy to turn a gun safe into a Faraday cage. You simply need to ground it and replace the door seals with conductive ones like those used on SCIF doors (can be ordered on the net.) After removing the paint under the seals, of course. Check everything with a meter to ensure good connectivity and you're good to go.
QuietShootr, or anyone else with experience in this, I have no experience with any of this stuff, would you mind checking these videos out and let me know if it's ok and not just some youtube BS?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWjT0Bh_KZ8
This one says you don't need to ground a Faraday cage...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqZmac2Bg5M&NR=1
Faraday cage made from an ammo can?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnltByc3kSY&feature=related
Moose-Knuckle
08-11-11, 04:42
Actually it is a race thing.
The FBI used to publish crime stats by race on its website. But Eric Holder made the FBI take that info down because it embarasses him and other black elitists.
What do the stats show?
A white girl is 35,000 times MORE LIKELY to be raped by a black man than a black girl is to be raped by a white man.
Yes, it is about race. Black men like to rape white girls. If it offends someone's sensibilities, then good! Do something about it.
100% agreed. Your preaching to the choir man, a spade is a spade is a spade. ;)
That's quite a change in mindset from a couple of days ago.
Welcome to opening your eyes another few degrees. :meeting: Just don't take the blue pill again.
LOL, now he justs needs to read up on the benevolent Rothschild family and their banking cabal's global agenda and he will see how the dots are connected. I use the Matrix analogy quit often. :neo:
Further down the rabbit hole. . .
Now, for you guy's who are up on the Bonus Army or just learned about them you need to read two time Medal of Honor receipient Major General Smedley D. Butler's book War is a Racket.
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
4x4twenty6
08-11-11, 09:34
moose-knuckle, i will check out Rothschild and the book.
I'z ah gonna do me sum boock lernin! haha
I hope people dont lose sight of these issues that are ****in our country up just cuz football is back.
I am shittin glitter that we have football starting up but i think the gov't will probably use it to their advantage.
I hope people dont lose sight of these issues that are ****in our country up just cuz football is back.
I am shittin glitter that we have football starting up but i think the gov't will probably use it to their advantage.
Televised sports are the government's best friend. Think of them the same way that gladiators were used in Rome and that's as a distraction from politics and government to dumb down the masses. Watching sports, wearing their uniforms and cheering on "your team" makes them feel as if they're part of a group, gives them a feeling of belonging and a sense of comraderie that is infectious within their ranks. Women do the same shit with celebrity gossip.
I know several people who are sports fanatics in every sense of the word including knowing stats, who scored when, screaming at the TV, etc. but they can't tell you shit about what's going on in the world and really have no opinion to offer on what's really going on in Gov and politics in general. And again women do the same shit with celebrity gossip.
With all that being said I do enjoy watching Sunday football with the family and snacking on junk food... I just don't revolve my life around it.
QuietShootr
08-11-11, 14:28
moose-knuckle, i will check out Rothschild and the book.
I'z ah gonna do me sum boock lernin! haha
I hope people dont lose sight of these issues that are ****in our country up just cuz football is back.
I am shittin glitter that we have football starting up but i think the gov't will probably use it to their advantage.
Marx was wrong. SPORTS are the opiate of the masses.
Football, NASCAR, what the **** ever. It's all a big "Who Gives a Shit??" to me.
It's funny though - when I know some big sports event is coming up in Indianapolis, I try to catch the news before I have to talk to anybody at work about it - that way I can pretend I'm one of them, even though to me a 'fumble' is something you do when you **** up a reload. I found that most men my age look at you like you just landed from Mars if you don't guffaw and yell about the actions of some felonious silverback on a striped field. I think of it as camouflage.
4x4twenty6
08-11-11, 15:51
For what I know about Marx, i think he was completely wrong.
I enjoy sports, I played sports but I dont let it run my life.
I watch it for the guys who do it for the right reasons and there are still a few. I also like the Pro Athletes who graduated from college after a succesfull career with a significant degree. They are not one trick ponies and have a brain to back up the braun.
I do LOVE me some college football though. I am a die hard LSU fan but get into the college sports far more than professional.
I get into a Saints game but can watch any other football game and enjoy it on my own in complete silence.
People need to rise above the governments persona of the common man.
I plan on watching football tonight and i am recording the Debate. I educate myself on a daily basis and pay attention to what is going on. So after i go to the gym i am gonna come home have a beer, eat some doritos and watch some football.
Anyone wanna take bets on violence at the IOWA debates and fair?
So as you add item to your preparedness list...you may be being watched....
http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-preparedness/terrorism-update-fbi-targets-preppers-and-preparedness-supplies-in-latest-bulletin_08112011
Moose-Knuckle
08-12-11, 03:58
I can never find the damn quote but there was a Roman scholar who commented on the downfall of the empire and the demoralization of their entertainment combined with high salaries of their entertainers.
Televised sports are the government's best friend. Think of them the same way that gladiators were used in Rome and that's as a distraction from politics and government to dumb down the masses. Watching sports, wearing their uniforms and cheering on "your team" makes them feel as if they're part of a group, gives them a feeling of belonging and a sense of comraderie that is infectious within their ranks. Women do the same shit with celebrity gossip.
I know several people who are sports fanatics in every sense of the word including knowing stats, who scored when, screaming at the TV, etc. but they can't tell you shit about what's going on in the world and really have no opinion to offer on what's really going on in Gov and politics in general. And again women do the same shit with celebrity gossip.
With all that being said I do enjoy watching Sunday football with the family and snacking on junk food... I just don't revolve my life around it.
I couldn't have said it better myself! :cool:
Marx was wrong. SPORTS are the opiate of the masses.
Football, NASCAR, what the **** ever. It's all a big "Who Gives a Shit??" to me.
It's funny though - when I know some big sports event is coming up in Indianapolis, I try to catch the news before I have to talk to anybody at work about it - that way I can pretend I'm one of them, even though to me a 'fumble' is something you do when you **** up a reload. I found that most men my age look at you like you just landed from Mars if you don't guffaw and yell about the actions of some felonious silverback on a striped field. I think of it as camouflage.
LOL, I'm not the only one! I actually start convos like this at work after reading the yahoo sports page just so I can keep my man card! :lol::suicide2:
VooDoo6Actual
08-12-11, 10:46
Whether deliberately or not, "bread and circuses" (the insidious nature of social decline, "Panem et Circenses") is the doctrine by which government, business and media supported whether wittingly or not, by the population at large operate.
In this case deliberately implemented.
No food stamps makes zombies go crazy! http://youtu.be/XJ_7zWsp0LE
I realize this isn't too bad but just wait... tick, tock...
4x4twenty6
08-12-11, 16:59
Did you see some of those water buffalo women in the video!? Hard to imagine how it would hurt for them to go hungry for a few days!
Lawd Jeezis I traded my food stamps fah weed now I'm hongry!
Says video removed for hate speech anyone care to share what it was about?
Belmont31R
08-12-11, 17:55
Says video removed for hate speech anyone care to share what it was about?
It was a newscast of a county welfare office in Georgia, and bunch of 'people' showed up because their EBT and welfare cards didn't get recharged. They became angry and were banging on the glass window that seperates the 'people' from the staff. 'People' were outside complaining on camera that they have six kids to feed, and there kids didn't eat this morning because their cards weren't reloaded. Another 'person' was complaining she can't get her cancer meds while displaying highly done up nails and an expensive weave.
It was just a news clip. Nothing in the video was hate speech. It was probably due to the comments. Lots of n****r comments directed at the 'people'.
No food stamps makes zombies go crazy! http://youtu.be/XJ_7zWsp0LE
I realize this isn't too bad but just wait... tick, tock...
Aint that the truth! We are slipping over the edge and have a long way to hit bottom. If folks think the current "cuts" or inflation or lack of jobs are bad now, won't they be tickled this time next year?
I find it amazing, sort of, that these dependents have no one else in their life to turn for help other than welfare. When I was young I turned to family for temporary help and now I am helping other family members. Pretty sorry state when you are 20-40 yrs old and have no one to turn to except welfare or rioting to demand more.
I wonder what the welfare population decline will be as they tear themselves apart when things get real bad. There may not be enough left to be a horde!
VooDoo6Actual
08-13-11, 07:24
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/wp-content/uploads/ColoradoFBISurplusStore.pdf
I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but it seems most of the scenarios being discussed include lowlife, welfare, zombie, gang types. What about the wealthy, clueless folks in the gated community? Mr. Joe country club doesn't think anything large scale will happen. His preps are directed more toward golfing this weekend at the country club, getting his Starbucks coffee, wine tasting, etc...
He can't imagine his life without all the luxuries so he chooses to ignore the facts about our country declining. He has a weeks worth of food at home, wine rack full & a flat of bottled water, maybe a sporting shotgun & pistol with 1 box of ammo for each. When his short supply runs out, now you have an educated, creative guy looking to feed his hungry kids. Not your average dumbass hood rat.
Just something to think about.
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/wp-content/uploads/ColoradoFBISurplusStore.pdf
This article describes 95% of shoppers at surplus stores!
NoveskeFan
08-13-11, 09:33
I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but it seems most of the scenarios being discussed include lowlife, welfare, zombie, gang types. What about the wealthy, clueless folks in the gated community? Mr. Joe country club doesn't think anything large scale will happen. His preps are directed more toward golfing this weekend at the country club, getting his Starbucks coffee, wine tasting, etc...
He can't imagine his life without all the luxuries so he chooses to ignore the facts about our country declining. He has a weeks worth of food at home, wine rack full & a flat of bottled water, maybe a sporting shotgun & pistol with 1 box of ammo for each. When his short supply runs out, now you have an educated, creative guy looking to feed his hungry kids. Not your average dumbass hood rat.
Just something to think about.
Very good point. I live near a couple gated communities...might be a bigger threat than most would think. The wealthy are used to having their way and being able to support it. Could be as bad as a person on welfare.
Beat Trash
08-13-11, 11:19
I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but it seems most of the scenarios being discussed include lowlife, welfare, zombie, gang types. What about the wealthy, clueless folks in the gated community? Mr. Joe country club doesn't think anything large scale will happen. His preps are directed more toward golfing this weekend at the country club, getting his Starbucks coffee, wine tasting, etc...
He can't imagine his life without all the luxuries so he chooses to ignore the facts about our country declining. He has a weeks worth of food at home, wine rack full & a flat of bottled water, maybe a sporting shotgun & pistol with 1 box of ammo for each. When his short supply runs out, now you have an educated, creative guy looking to feed his hungry kids. Not your average dumbass hood rat.
Just something to think about.
This applies to all social classes. The "Getto Hood Rat" is the threat you would see and be on guard for. Your clueless liberal neighbor down the street, who's family is starving and is panicked and desperate may be just as much of a threat. He may be more of a threat only because he could be the threat you don't see coming.
This is why I feel that limiting the knowledge of the existence of your preps is almost as important the preps themselves.
This applies to all social classes. The "Getto Hood Rat" is the threat you would see and be on guard for. Your clueless liberal neighbor down the street, who's family is starving and is panicked and desperate may be just as much of a threat. He may be more of a threat only because he could be the threat you don't see coming.
This is why I feel that limiting the knowledge of the existence of your preps is almost as important the preps themselves.
Exactly. I doubt the "clueless liberal neighbor" is going to try to ambush you in your driveway. BUT, he may not have any qualms about robbing your home while you are gone for the day or weekend. Or worse, squeal to the "authorities" (HOA, FEMA, etc.) that you have stockpiles and have "dangerous bunker of guns and who knows what else."
I live in a suburb with mostly self-reliant neighbors: one is a machinist, another tow truck owner, landscaper, construction, etc. Nearly all of them I can rely on to work together for protecting the block and watch out for each other and provide for themselves. However, one neighbor worries me. He is very liberal and I believe he would rat out everyone he could if given the chance. I've even ruminated on the morals of pre-emptive strike on someone who poses a direct threat to your safety/survival if things got real bad.
Normally I am your low profile, total law-aiding citizen, but if someone was willing to blab or even lie to endanger my family, then I would be very close to NOT waiting for that shoe to drop and do something to eliminate the danger first. Not attacking them but urning them out?
It is shocking to say but if FEMA was going around confiscating any home owner "supplies" and the police or National Guard were going around confiscating weapons, and you knew a neighbor was just chomping at the bit to spill the beans, what would you do or not do?
4x4twenty6
08-13-11, 17:00
I think we still have some time before we see a big outright problem w/ jobs and money and such.
We are still racking up plenty of debt. I am hedging my bet on the next presidential election. If Obama is gone and a republican takes the WH you all know those liberals are going to get real ugly.
If another leftist dem gets it then im seriously ****ing getting prepared for a mass SHTF scenario.
If it hits before i am ready, i hate to say it but im going to be one of those guys getting food from the store last minute. i hope it does not come to that. i like being prepared.
Televised sports are the government's best friend. Think of them the same way that gladiators were used in Rome and that's as a distraction from politics and government to dumb down the masses. Watching sports, wearing their uniforms and cheering on "your team" makes them feel as if they're part of a group, gives them a feeling of belonging and a sense of comraderie that is infectious within their ranks. Women do the same shit with celebrity gossip.
I know several people who are sports fanatics in every sense of the word including knowing stats, who scored when, screaming at the TV, etc. but they can't tell you shit about what's going on in the world and really have no opinion to offer on what's really going on in Gov and politics in general. And again women do the same shit with celebrity gossip.
With all that being said I do enjoy watching Sunday football with the family and snacking on junk food... I just don't revolve my life around it.
So true. My son says the same thing about the kids at school. They know every goddamn T.V. show star's gossip and all the ratings and stats for every sports player and they know all the gear-headed-ness on the subject of skateboards and lacrosse sticks and basketball shoes, but they can't handle driving a nail or a stick-shift. Or, in regards to shooting, a tack :no:
By contrast, my kid can do all that, field strip an AR, AK, Remington 870, Ruger 10/22, Glock, or 1911 (proud father right here), can sharpen a knife, repair the family truck, and is an apprentice carpenter/electrician/plumber as a summer job. He set up the solar array on our house with minimal assistance. CPR/first aid certified, and does alright with the girls too. He can even do math, a skill I never had.
Televised sports are the government's best friend.
Just as my sig line says "when yo talk to the average person you are talking to a television set". It tells everyone what to buy, what to eat, what is right and what is wrong, and who to vote for. It tells them everything. It is the new god.
4x4twenty6
08-13-11, 17:50
Abraxas:
I agree, it is sad because there is some good information that is making its way on to tv. I get so pissed when my wife watches stupid mindless shows. Her excuse is that when she gets off work she doesnt wanna watch anything that makes her think. I guess i really cant blame her but i get her to watch my shows every now and then.
I think we still have some time before we see a big outright problem w/ jobs and money and such.
We are still racking up plenty of debt. I am hedging my bet on the next presidential election. If Obama is gone and a republican takes the WH you all know those liberals are going to get real ugly.
If another leftist dem gets it then im seriously ****ing getting prepared for a mass SHTF scenario.
If it hits before i am ready, i hate to say it but im going to be one of those guys getting food from the store last minute. i hope it does not come to that. i like being prepared.
Amen. We don't have very long to delete the welfare system in this country. If we don't, it will collapse and we will have a SHTF situation on our hands. I'm just glad to be relatively insulated from some of that, given the rural location I'm in. My family will be doubling up at my place if things get worse, and a few selected friends who I've discussed the issue at length with will join us.
I'm getting ready for the world go go very bad. What and with the occurrences as of late in England, I'm expecting something like that to happen here soon. I have devised a system to use hoses and wet down my whole house very quickly as a protection against looters burning the place. I replaced the first floor doors with very heavy, two inch thick, solid-oak affairs, armored with four heavy-duty hinges and four dead-bolts. I have a chain on the inside, and the door opens outward. All the windows have similar shutters, giving some ballistic protection. Plenty of sand on the property and I have a major supply of sandbags (the fire department will sell them to you for like 10 cents each, buy a lot of them) for further ballistic protection.
I also have provisions for bringing the pressure-washer up onto the roof. It isn't fun to be blasted in the face with that thing. might be a good first line of defense before I reveal the body armor and SBR under my jacket, and the fact my son is waiting inside with further defenses.
4x4twenty6
08-13-11, 20:59
It crazy to here people like Vladimir Putin calling out our gov't for raising the debt ceiling. Thats when you know you ****ed up. lol
Just today some people in UK parliament were saying that they should 'nt be trying to emulate us because look at the direction we are going.
But it is still not sinking in with these leftist. We have a perfect example of where we are headed right across the pond and they are still all steam ahead right into the ground.
Belmont31R
08-13-11, 22:12
It crazy to here people like Vladimir Putin calling out our gov't for raising the debt ceiling. Thats when you know you ****ed up. lol
Just today some people in UK parliament were saying that they should 'nt be trying to emulate us because look at the direction we are going.
But it is still not sinking in with these leftist. We have a perfect example of where we are headed right across the pond and they are still all steam ahead right into the ground.
Cloward-Piven strategy. If you're not familiar with it look it up.
Works a lot better than armed revolution in a country like ours. Also many key communist revolutionary tools like making people lose confidence in the system and government, multiculturalism to destroy the foundation and cohesion, and there are a ton more that have all been at work since the 60's.
4x4twenty6
08-13-11, 22:33
Thanks for the heads up on Cloward-Piven. Very interesting and it spells it out perfectly. I especially like this part"
"In his 2006 book Winning the Race, commentator John McWhorter attributed the rise in the welfare state after the 1960s to the Cloward-Piven strategy, but wrote about it negatively, stating that the strategy "created generations of black people for whom working for a living is an abstraction."[9]"
That says it all right there.
I tell you what i have learned alot from you guys on the various threads on this website. Thanks again belmont.
Everyone should check it out.
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-11, 03:16
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/wp-content/uploads/ColoradoFBISurplusStore.pdf
I noticed there wasn't any box cutters and flying lessons listed on that handout. . . :rolleyes:
Thanks for the heads up on Cloward-Piven. Very interesting and it spells it out perfectly. I especially like this part"
"In his 2006 book Winning the Race, commentator John McWhorter attributed the rise in the welfare state after the 1960s to the Cloward-Piven strategy, but wrote about it negatively, stating that the strategy "created generations of black people for whom working for a living is an abstraction."[9]"
That says it all right there.
I tell you what i have learned alot from you guys on the various threads on this website.
The world is not what it appears to be is it friend?
"You take the blue pill – the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill – you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes." - Morpheus
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/AKS-74/RedpillMatrix.png
Moose-Knuckle
08-14-11, 04:03
A new method/approach to the rise in social networking flash mobs. . .
Rapper could face charges tied to flash mob (another method to distrupt and cause discontent)
http://news.yahoo.com/rapper-could-face-charges-tied-flash-mob-185817494.html
This tactic could tie up/distract LE personnel while a flash mob engages at another location.
Just a Jarhead
08-14-11, 04:58
Thanks for the heads up on Cloward-Piven. Very interesting and it spells it out perfectly. I especially like this part"
"In his 2006 book Winning the Race, commentator John McWhorter attributed the rise in the welfare state after the 1960s to the Cloward-Piven strategy, but wrote about it negatively, stating that the strategy "created generations of black people for whom working for a living is an abstraction."[9]"
That says it all right there.
I tell you what i have learned alot from you guys on the various threads on this website. Thanks again belmont.
Everyone should check it out.
See even though you were watching "good" tv you should have been watching Glenn Beck. Those of us that did learned about Cloward & Piven over 2 years ago. Some thought/think the guy is nuts but they never once disputed the content of any of his shows and he backed everything up with video/audio etc everytime. All they ever did/do is attack him personally, never the content. The man is a modern day Thomas Paine as far as I'm concerned. We learned so much from him and he has been 100% spot on calling all of this. From the Arab uprising starting & spreading, to Greece, England and next here. He said 5 years ago our credit is going to get downgraded.
I watched him daily waiting for the "nuts" part to surface. It never did in my opinion. It was continual eye opening expose' & learning. Someone will probably be by here to bash him (probably one of those "too cool for school" high post count guys) but wait & watch if they do. It won't be about disputing any of the FACTS of the content of any of his shows specifically or anything he exposed, it will be simply calling him "nuts" without backing it up! So typical! Get ready to watch mindlessness in action!
A new method/approach to the rise in social networking flash mobs. . .
Rapper could face charges tied to flash mob (another method to distrupt and cause discontent)
http://news.yahoo.com/rapper-could-face-charges-tied-flash-mob-185817494.html
This tactic could tie up/distract LE personnel while a flash mob engages at another location.
Per the linked article: "Yall can track a tweet down but cant solve murders!" the tweet said. "Dat was an accident but maybe now yall can actually do yall job !!!!"
Seriously? How is anyone supposed to take a guy like this seriously who can't even speak English? Pretty soon Ebonics is going to be mandatory teaching in our schools. That's when the Obama will really hit the fan.
See even though you were watching "good" tv you should have been watching Glenn Beck. Those of us that did learned about Cloward & Piven over 2 years ago. Some thought/think the guy is nuts but they never once disputed the content of any of his shows and he backed everything up with video/audio etc everytime. All they ever did/do is attack him personally, never the content. The man is a modern day Thomas Paine as far as I'm concerned. We learned so much from him and he has been 100% spot on calling all of this. From the Arab uprising starting & spreading, to Greece, England and next here. He said 5 years ago our credit is going to get downgraded.
I watched him daily waiting for the "nuts" part to surface. It never did in my opinion. It was continual eye opening expose' & learning. Someone will probably be by here to bash him (probably one of those "too cool for school" high post count guys) but wait & watch if they do. It won't be about disputing any of the FACTS of the content of any of his shows specifically or anything he exposed, it will be simply calling him "nuts" without backing it up! So typical! Get ready to watch mindlessness in action!
That man is brilliant. He presented the information in a way that opened my eyes on so many subjects. I think if they'd run his show in Bill O'Reilly's spot, he would have had three, four million viewers daily.
4x4twenty6
08-14-11, 11:48
I used to watch Glenn Beck every now and then, i never heard anything that was even close to what i thought was crazy. It was a great show.
The liberal media made him out to be a radical right wing nut job. I constantly see people trying to justify why they like Glen Beck as though they feel guilty for it. Similar to the way people feel guilty for being white which is also media/govt created.
The liberal media made him out to be a radical right wing nut job. I constantly see people trying to justify why they like Glen Beck as though they feel guilty for it. Similar to the way people feel guilty for being white which is also media/govt created.
Too true. The same way guys are ashamed of driving a truck, owning/using/carrying a gun, etc. I'm far beyond the point of shame for any of these things. I heat with wood, grow/catch/hunt/trap my own food, I'm a productive member of society. I break no laws. I have nothing to be ashamed of.
I'm done with apologizing to society on account of society's pussification. It's part of why I open carry, aside from then I don't have to try to conceal a full-size, hard-to-conceal handgun and I can have greater firepower.
Belmont31R
08-14-11, 14:09
Another onne of their strategies has been to take over psychology, and then paint the opposition using a "medical diagnosis" to say they are crazy, nuts, loons, ect. Ive seen at least a few programs on the leftist news channels where they try to figure out what the Tea Party is about, and they always have a psychologist on there to give his opinion, and they always paint them as being bitter, angry, loose cannons, dangerous, racist, ect. Another is education, particularly higher education....because where do people have to go to become teachers? Then you spit out lefty leaning teachers that make their way into grade schools.
If you take all these strategies, and plug them into what they say it makes perfect sense. The right, for the most part, does not use any of these strategies. A lot of these things they do are VERY old tactics the right has never really learned about. Glenn Beck understands them better than most lefties do, and like he says do your own research. Don't take what he has to say as the gospel but just use it to learn about things to look into.
If you want to read ONE of the playbooks sit down and read Rules for Radicals. Its pretty much the lefts play book they use all the time. Such as accusing the opposition of what you are doing. Next time you listen to an Obama speech he will accuse the Republicans of doing what he is doing. Like about the debt issue...his last speech I saw he was accusing the Tea Party Republicans of playing games and intentionally not wanting to pass a budget...yet he was the one out there refusing every deal except the one he wanted, and threatening seniors with not getting their Social Security checks. I didn't see any junior Republicans out there with the scare tactics against seniors.
I remember Pelosi out there practically crying about how dangerous the Tea Party was, and how it reminded her of those days of the past with violent mobs. As far as I know no one has ever been arrested at a Tea Party event. Maybe it has happened but there has been no violent outburst by a large group. Where is she now? We have incidents of blacks all over the country becoming violent in huge mobs, and where is she at? Where is the liberal media at? Why no specials on this new threat?
Just read that book, and you'll understand. This is not about right or wrong to them but about winning power, and they'll do and say anything they have to get it. The Speaker of the House can get up there with her crocodile tears about how dangerous we are. We're not the ones getting mobs of people together to go attack the opposite race and loot stores. But they'll never say anything about it NEAR as critical as they do the opposition (us). In fact they might even blame us for causing the blacks to do this and say its a societal problem where all of us share the fault.
Another onne of their strategies has been to take over psychology, and then paint the opposition using a "medical diagnosis" to say they are crazy, nuts, loons, ect. Ive seen at least a few programs on the leftist news channels where they try to figure out what the Tea Party is about, and they always have a psychologist on there to give his opinion, and they always paint them as being bitter, angry, loose cannons, dangerous, racist, ect. Another is education, particularly higher education....because where do people have to go to become teachers? Then you spit out lefty leaning teachers that make their way into grade schools.
If you take all these strategies, and plug them into what they say it makes perfect sense. The right, for the most part, does not use any of these strategies. A lot of these things they do are VERY old tactics the right has never really learned about. Glenn Beck understands them better than most lefties do, and like he says do your own research. Don't take what he has to say as the gospel but just use it to learn about things to look into.
If you want to read ONE of the playbooks sit down and read Rules for Radicals. Its pretty much the lefts play book they use all the time. Such as accusing the opposition of what you are doing. Next time you listen to an Obama speech he will accuse the Republicans of doing what he is doing. Like about the debt issue...his last speech I saw he was accusing the Tea Party Republicans of playing games and intentionally not wanting to pass a budget...yet he was the one out there refusing every deal except the one he wanted, and threatening seniors with not getting their Social Security checks. I didn't see any junior Republicans out there with the scare tactics against seniors.
I remember Pelosi out there practically crying about how dangerous the Tea Party was, and how it reminded her of those days of the past with violent mobs. As far as I know no one has ever been arrested at a Tea Party event. Maybe it has happened but there has been no violent outburst by a large group. Where is she now? We have incidents of blacks all over the country becoming violent in huge mobs, and where is she at? Where is the liberal media at? Why no specials on this new threat?
Just read that book, and you'll understand. This is not about right or wrong to them but about winning power, and they'll do and say anything they have to get it. The Speaker of the House can get up there with her crocodile tears about how dangerous we are. We're not the ones getting mobs of people together to go attack the opposite race and loot stores. But they'll never say anything about it NEAR as critical as they do the opposition (us). In fact they might even blame us for causing the blacks to do this and say its a societal problem where all of us share the fault.
Lays it all out in term of how the left is playing it.
VooDoo6Actual
08-14-11, 23:32
Another onne of their strategies has been to take over psychology, and then paint the opposition using a "medical diagnosis" to say they are crazy, nuts, loons, ect. Ive seen at least a few programs on the leftist news channels where they try to figure out what the Tea Party is about, and they always have a psychologist on there to give his opinion, and they always paint them as being bitter, angry, loose cannons, dangerous, racist, ect. Another is education, particularly higher education....because where do people have to go to become teachers? Then you spit out lefty leaning teachers that make their way into grade schools.
If you take all these strategies, and plug them into what they say it makes perfect sense. The right, for the most part, does not use any of these strategies. A lot of these things they do are VERY old tactics the right has never really learned about. Glenn Beck understands them better than most lefties do, and like he says do your own research. Don't take what he has to say as the gospel but just use it to learn about things to look into.
If you want to read ONE of the playbooks sit down and read Rules for Radicals. Its pretty much the lefts play book they use all the time. Such as accusing the opposition of what you are doing. Next time you listen to an Obama speech he will accuse the Republicans of doing what he is doing. Like about the debt issue...his last speech I saw he was accusing the Tea Party Republicans of playing games and intentionally not wanting to pass a budget...yet he was the one out there refusing every deal except the one he wanted, and threatening seniors with not getting their Social Security checks. I didn't see any junior Republicans out there with the scare tactics against seniors.
I remember Pelosi out there practically crying about how dangerous the Tea Party was, and how it reminded her of those days of the past with violent mobs. As far as I know no one has ever been arrested at a Tea Party event. Maybe it has happened but there has been no violent outburst by a large group. Where is she now? We have incidents of blacks all over the country becoming violent in huge mobs, and where is she at? Where is the liberal media at? Why no specials on this new threat?
Just read that book, and you'll understand. This is not about right or wrong to them but about winning power, and they'll do and say anything they have to get it. The Speaker of the House can get up there with her crocodile tears about how dangerous we are. We're not the ones getting mobs of people together to go attack the opposite race and loot stores. But they'll never say anything about it NEAR as critical as they do the opposition (us). In fact they might even blame us for causing the blacks to do this and say its a societal problem where all of us share the fault.
+1 this
Another flash mob robbery in DC: http://youtu.be/bHyug2PvpB8
Kansas City contemplating imposing curfew due to racial attacks and violence: http://m.kansascity.com/kcstar/db_41534/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=Ed5OquhD&detailindex=0&pn=0&ps=5&full=true#display This incident is fueling the decision, 3 teens shot: http://youtu.be/D8qxyPEHkyI
Another flash mob robbery in DC: http://youtu.be/bHyug2PvpB8
Kansas City contemplating imposing curfew due to racial attacks and violence: http://m.kansascity.com/kcstar/db_41534/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=Ed5OquhD&detailindex=0&pn=0&ps=5&full=true#display This incident is fueling the decision, 3 teens shot: http://youtu.be/D8qxyPEHkyI
"Sheet mang! Where da mawfaukin grape Swisha's be?"
Just the other day my wife & I were driving to dinner & a black guy was walking his pitbull with the typical thug attire/look. My wife commented "Oh my god! I try not to stereotype but...". I just laughed.
RE: Flash mobs...
Does it bother anyone else that the people committing these flash mobs are stealing nothing more than snacks and trinkets? It's still wrong, but it screams of a far larger issue than they were really hungry for some skittles and didn't have any change. I'm sure most are thinking the same thing.
This isn't about robbing for necessity, or even for a thrill. It's fitting in/belonging to something, being part of something bigger than themselves. Unfortunately, it's something negative.
Imagine what could happen if they focused that need on something positive. Where's Bill Cosby when you need him?
1 day in Detroit equals 15 peopls shot and 6 dead. (http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/08/13/24-hour-period-in-detroit-yields-15-people-shot-6-dead/) For some really crazy looking post-apocalyptic shit Google "feral homes Detroit".
I love Detroit. It is a shining example of what liberal social policies and union politics lead to.
4x4twenty6
08-15-11, 19:46
As long as the people who are dying are the " Get it how you live, ya herrrrd may!" types i couldnt give two shits. If only they died at the rate in which they are reproducing we would really be doing well.
RE: Flash mobs...
Does it bother anyone else that the people committing these flash mobs are stealing nothing more than snacks and trinkets? It's still wrong, but it screams of a far larger issue than they were really hungry for some skittles and didn't have any change. I'm sure most are thinking the same thing.
This isn't about robbing for necessity, or even for a thrill. It's fitting in/belonging to something, being part of something bigger than themselves. Unfortunately, it's something negative.
Imagine what could happen if they focused that need on something positive. Where's Bill Cosby when you need him?
You are 100% correct on that. Just think about what these Zombies would do if they have not eaten in a few days. It will get really bad.
I love Detroit. It is a shining example of what liberal social policies and union politics lead to.
Hey now, don't cloud the issue with facts ;)
As far as I'm concerned, we are always 72 hours away from mass ghetto disobedience.
Imagine if all the inner cities and trailer parks didn't get their welfare checks on time; within 72 hours martial law would need to be declared in the largest urban areas.
evenodds20
08-16-11, 02:53
why do i get the feeling that there is a strong implication or a "certain" race associated with these alleged civil break downs, shootings, lootings, etc.?
Just a Jarhead
08-16-11, 03:02
why do i get the feeling that there is a strong implication or a "certain" race associated with these alleged civil break downs, shootings, lootings, etc.?
Here we go again!!!!!!!!!
why do i get the feeling that there is a strong implication or a "certain" race associated with these alleged civil break downs, shootings, lootings, etc.?
Reading is fundamental.
If it looks like a Zombie and acts like a Zombie then it is not a Zebra. If you do not understand that then you need to go back and reread this entire thread from the beginning.
Some people. :no:
4x4twenty6
08-16-11, 03:55
Assuming that a given group of people are referring to one specific race, even after no mention of ANY race, would make you a racist.
You are obviously over generalizing in regards to our reference of slang terminology and my comment of the "get it how you live types".
Get the **** off the thread if you are just trying to start trouble.
If you disagree with us then give us your educated opinion instead of some bullshit meaningless comment.
Moose-Knuckle
08-16-11, 04:32
RE: Flash mobs...
Does it bother anyone else that the people committing these flash mobs are stealing nothing more than snacks and trinkets? It's still wrong, but it screams of a far larger issue than they were really hungry for some skittles and didn't have any change. I'm sure most are thinking the same thing.
This isn't about robbing for necessity, or even for a thrill. It's fitting in/belonging to something, being part of something bigger than themselves. Unfortunately, it's something negative. Where's Bill Cosby when you need him?
In the vid Irish posted, it said the Police waited for the mob to clear before responding. Had they went in there would have been a full on riot. God forbid they shot one of these "children" in the aftermath then there would be a full on race war.
The things they were stealing (individually) were not over $50. So we are talking about a Misdemeanor C, think parking ticket. So basically nothing would ever come of it in court or jail time.
So what is society to do?
It's getting worse and it only takes a spark for these oxygen thieves to go from shop lifting to full on high order violence.
The likes of Bill Cosby, Will Smith, et al are wrote off as "sell outs" or "uncle Toms".
The tension in the air is getting thicker, we are reaching a boiling point in this country. Dark days ahead. . .
whiteknuckels
08-16-11, 04:47
with the flash mobs going on like the one that happened in DC, youtube and other site where videos can be veiwed by youngsters is maybe all the spark they need. They see people getting away with it in one part of the country, and instantly think they will be invinsible too...thats how i see the chain reaction of these flash mobs getting outta hand...
I love Detroit. It is a shining example of what liberal social policies and union politics lead to.
Detroit...I don't even know how to respond to Detroit. I've driven through the place, I had an SKS locked in a Pelican case in the trunk of the car and I had the key to that lock in my hand the whole time. That city scares me. Going to some of the developments in Detroit where buildings have been abandoned, police are scared to go, etc. It's post-SHTF, for real.
evenodds20
08-16-11, 12:54
"Sheet mang! Where da mawfaukin grape Swisha's be?"
Just the other day my wife & I were driving to dinner & a black guy was walking his pitbull with the typical thug attire/look. My wife commented "Oh my god! I try not to stereotype but...". I just laughed.
Are you trying to portray a white person saying that "slang"? then following it up with an incident involving a black guy? interesting.
RE: Flash mobs...
Does it bother anyone else that the people committing these flash mobs are stealing nothing more than snacks and trinkets? It's still wrong, but it screams of a far larger issue than they were really hungry for some skittles and didn't have any change. I'm sure most are thinking the same thing.
This isn't about robbing for necessity, or even for a thrill. It's fitting in/belonging to something, being part of something bigger than themselves. Unfortunately, it's something negative.
Imagine what could happen if they focused that need on something positive. Where's Bill Cosby when you need him?
what does bill cosby have to do with it other than hes an icon in the black community?
1 day in Detroit equals 15 peopls shot and 6 dead. (http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/08/13/24-hour-period-in-detroit-yields-15-people-shot-6-dead/) For some really crazy looking post-apocalyptic shit Google "feral homes Detroit".
As long as the people who are dying are the " Get it how you live, ya herrrrd may!" types i couldnt give two shits. If only THEY died at the rate in which they are reproducing we would really be doing well.
people commonly make the comment that blacks reproduce nilly willy and therefore at alarming rates! this is the first thing i thought you meant when you made the "get it how you live" comment and then following it up with "THEY" reproduce yada yada yada.......
so who exactly did you mean by "they"?
Hey now, don't cloud the issue with facts ;)
As far as I'm concerned, we are always 72 hours away from mass ghetto disobedience.
Imagine if all the inner cities and trailer parks didn't get their welfare checks on time; within 72 hours martial law would need to be declared in the largest urban areas.
blacks are commonly associated with "ghettos".
Here we go again!!!!!!!!!
so i guess your saying im not the only one that has noticed this type of insinuation? this is definitely the first time i have pointed it out so you cant possibly mean im bringing it up for a second time! maybe there is a reason to the rhyme!
Reading is fundamental.
If it looks like a Zombie and acts like a Zombie then it is not a Zebra. If you do not understand that then you need to go back and reread this entire thread from the beginning.
Some people. :no:
this whole conversation had very few mentions of actual zombie encounter. most mention was of the "ghetto", black men walking their pits with "thug attire", bill cosby, ....you get my point. so what exactly do you mean by "looks like a ____, acts like a ____? not to mention the youtube video someone posted of the civil unrest in Cali. and then someone mentioned "did anyone notice they were all black?"
Assuming that a given group of people are referring to one specific race, even after no mention of ANY race, would make you a racist.
You are obviously over generalizing in regards to our reference of slang terminology and my comment of the "get it how you live types".
Get the **** off the thread if you are just trying to start trouble.
If you disagree with us then give us your educated opinion instead of some bullshit meaningless comment.
Im not saying i disagree with you. and im definitely not saying i have an educated opinion. in fact, you and i would probably get along quite well. All i was doing was pointing out something that was rearing its little head, in my opinion.
I was merely pointing out that there could be a possibility of offense if the "right person" came in looking for trouble. Im NOT that guy. im not looking for trouble but i would like to join in on the conversation and i figured before someone takes some of these comments and runs with them, someone in the "group" might want to just make sure that these potentials are realized. trust me guys, im not offended.
wouldnt you rather you wife tell you you have food on your face, rather than letting you walk around in public all day?
Im the guy on the same team saving yall from a REAL issue instead of this little conversation we are having right now! ;)
blacks are commonly associated with "ghettos".
So are Jews... what's your point? You apparently associate a certain race with the term "ghetto"; that's not my problem.
...found another Progressive Liberal to add to the block list. I love this thread.
evenodds20 - I understand what you're saying in your post but it really doesn't help anything. Please try to stay on topic and let's not get into debates about semantics as it does nothing to move the thread forward and only sidetracks positive conversations.
blacks are commonly associated with "ghettos".
I usually associate the word "ghetto" with Jews and the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. If you haven't read about it I think you'd find it very interesting as it deals with Jews finding the courage to finally take up arms, in the ghetto they were forced to live in, and holding back a large contingent of Nazis for quite some time during WWII.
Im not saying i disagree with you. and im definitely not saying i have an educated opinion. in fact, you and i would probably get along quite well. All i was doing was pointing out something that was rearing its little head, in my opinion.
I was merely pointing out that there could be a possibility of offense if the "right person" came in looking for trouble. Im NOT that guy. im not looking for trouble but i would like to join in on the conversation and i figured before someone takes some of these comments and runs with them, someone in the "group" might want to just make sure that these potentials are realized. trust me guys, im not offended.
wouldnt you rather you wife tell you you have food on your face, rather than letting you walk around in public all day?
Im the guy on the same team saving yall from a REAL issue instead of this little conversation we are having right now! ;)
No, you're "that guy". You just don't think you're that guy.
Everyone may as well go ahead & put you on their ignore list right now, because it's obvious you can't or won't drop it.
evenodds20
08-16-11, 13:24
So are Jews... what's your point? You apparently associate a certain race with the term "ghetto"; that's not my problem.
...found another Progressive Liberal to add to the block list. I love this thread.
NO. i said many people associate it. If you go to someone and ask them where the local "ghetto" is, most would probably point to the low income are of town, which alot of people associate racially.
evenodds20 - I understand what you're saying in your post but it really doesn't help anything. Please try to stay on topic and let's not get into debates about semantics as it does nothing to move the thread forward and only sidetracks positive conversations.
I usually associate the word "ghetto" with Jews and the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. If you haven't read about it I think you'd find it very interesting as it deals with Jews finding the courage to finally take up arms, in the ghetto they were forced to live in, and holding back a large contingent of Nazis for quite some time during WWII.
I understand what you are saying, but i figured i would point it out anyways. i guess its ok to crack a joke and let minds run wild, but its not ok to point it out so it doesnt get too far over the line? I will drop the issue after this post.
as far as your suggestion to the Jewish uprising, i will definitely read up on it. it sounds interesting. But i can assure you that 99.9% of the time when the word Ghetto is mentioned, people dont automatically associate "jews" with it. you know it and i know it. and ill let that be that! thanks for the suggestion and im glad you see that i was just pointing out a potential offensive to a "person of similar race" to the insinuations in the past few posts.
No, you're "that guy". You just don't think you're that guy.
Everyone may as well go ahead & put you on their ignore list right now, because it's obvious you can't or won't drop it.
Ive made 1 post, and then responded to the responses! am i not allowed to respond once in the scheme of having a conversation/debate? i cant retract or re explain my position to be better understood? maybe you have had one to many cups of coffee because you are quick to assume there buddy.
im dont with it. yall got the point. my mind isnt the only one that may wander. remember everyone that stumbles across a thread such as this one, can take into account what kind of people they perceive are posting up, and then make a general opinion about what their comments may or may not mean. im making a observation and making sure im not jumping into an online racial bashing party. i dont want to be apart of anything like that and since yall feel so strong about the fact that its not, i guess its not! saying someone is racist because they assumed your closet comments were racial is utter stupidity. i take text for what it is.
4x4twenty6
08-16-11, 13:46
evenodds20:
I come from New Orleans where trash of all races speak/act the way I portrayed it.
If I came across harsh it is because this thread was shutdown because of another person making worse comments than yours.
We do have a lot of good information/conversation through out the thread.
Let it die. Carry on with the convo and info. ;)
evenodds20
08-16-11, 13:55
no worries 4x4. i took it with a grain of salt. I know i opened up an issue, and many people that didnt previously think there was any issues only enraged when i say "maybe there is an issue" or potential issue. Ive been in conversations before where people were tossing ideas and things out into the thread and it get shut down. then others on the forum, who never even posted in that thread, associated me with the other loose mouthed idiots and therefore i was labeled with the rest of them, being given the cold shoulder, or just being treated like an outright POS. i just wanted to clear up some controversial possibilities before i jumped into the mix. again, im not here to start argument. and i hope we can all get along now that i have made clear that i dont think 1 race is to blame for civil break down/unrest. i think every single race, religion, gender, nationality etc is more than capable of tearing down the US civilization as we know it and sending us back to the depression!
evenodds20
08-16-11, 13:57
Let it die. Carry on with the convo and info. ;)
Its as good as buried.
So how bout them Steelers?:haha:
4x4twenty6
08-16-11, 14:12
http://nation.foxnews.com/opec/2011/08/15/iran-revolutionary-guards-commander-becomes-new-president-opec
Getting back to the shit hitting the fan....
OPEC has a new president and wouldnt you know he is one of our enemies.
It just keeps getting better and better.
http://nation.foxnews.com/opec/2011/08/15/iran-revolutionary-guards-commander-becomes-new-president-opec
Getting back to the shit hitting the fan....
OPEC has a new president and wouldnt you know he is one of our enemies.
It just keeps getting better and better.
Very interesting. Apparently the Presidency is determined via a vote by member nations. I wonder if this will have any effect...
4x4twenty6
08-16-11, 14:27
Some of the things i have read so far are saying he has been in the position since August 3.
The Iranian Guard allegedly has been tied to US embassy bombings, Israeli Embassy Bombings and other coordinated attacks with the likes of Hezbolah.
Some of the things i have read so far are saying he has been in the position since August 3.
The Iranian Guard allegedly has been tied to US embassy bombings, Israeli Embassy Bombings and other coordinated attacks with the likes of Hezbolah.
Hmmm...Red flag that we ought to start domestically drilling perhaps?
Moose-Knuckle
08-19-11, 02:58
Hmmm...Red flag that we ought to start domestically drilling perhaps?
I wished, but that's not in the "play book" otherwise we would have started drilling forty years ago. The powers that be WANT us dependent on foreign oil. And now an anti-west Iranian appointed head of OPEC?
It's about to get interesting. . .
I wished, but that's not in the "play book" otherwise we would have started drilling forty years ago. The powers that be WANT us dependent on foreign oil. And now an anti-west Iranian appointed head of OPEC?
It's about to get interesting. . .
This is why I have solar electricity and wood heat. Someday, Iran and company is going to stop selling oil, or put the price up into the sky. Can you say $200/barrel? I can.
And by the way, the powers that be suck. They can take their socialist/communist/fascist crap and shove it right back where it came from.
It won't take OPEC policy alone to raise the price of oil sky high. eventually our money supply inflation is going to catch up with us. When our same old paycheck dollars no longer can pay escalating gas, food, travel, and other expenses AND our taxes go up and unemployment (real rate not the govt applications) continues to escalate, we will see more and more of the riots.
I agree, all of this is planned to lead to widespread chaos and violence so that the elitists can apply more screws of control.
I am resigned that too much of the population is dependent on government handouts and as a country we do not have the willpower to self correct. It is up to us to prepare individually or in small groups of family and friends. Distance ourselves from any dependence on government and banks as much as possible. Increase physical fitness and marketable skills to give ourselves more options. Stock up on food and supplies and tools to create a buffer between you and imposed "emergencies."
Something to consider is what another fellow said on a blog (Old Remus?). A survivalist keeps a low profile. He is not looking to fight for a cause but to stay out of the fray and survive. A distinction I had not thought much about. Do you fight for the cause of the Constitution or believe that cause is already lost and now it is down to your own survival?
Nathan_Bell
08-19-11, 13:32
Yeah, I can see that being the trigger to a full on MCF.
Flash trash see the "fun" these 'kids' are having in the soft target areas, and try it in the wrong area.
5 DRT and a bunch wounded "children"; the poverty pimps step in and down the toilet it all goes.
with the flash mobs going on like the one that happened in DC, youtube and other site where videos can be veiwed by youngsters is maybe all the spark they need. They see people getting away with it in one part of the country, and instantly think they will be invinsible too...thats how i see the chain reaction of these flash mobs getting outta hand...
I wished, but that's not in the "play book" otherwise we would have started drilling forty years ago. The powers that be WANT us dependent on foreign oil.
I have never understood this. To me this is a security breach of the highest order, but what do I know.
All I do realize is that without external energy (oil/coal/gas) our World As We Know It will not continue.
Maybe the idea is/was that we use their oil first and when the SHTF and the oil stops flowing we start drilling on our own turf. And that's all fine and dandy as long as we have the capacity and tools to do just that. Meaning we do not rely on China to produce our parts that we need to do the actual extraction processes.
I'm not so sure that we have all the tools/equipment necessary on CONUS to do this, but what do I know.
Maybe the idea is/was that we use their oil first and when the SHTF and the oil stops flowing we start drilling on our own turf. And that's all fine and dandy as long as we have the capacity and tools to do just that. Meaning we do not rely on China to produce our parts that we need to do the actual extraction processes.
I'm not so sure that we have all the tools/equipment necessary on CONUS to do this, but what do I know.
I think the general plan is to disable all countries from being independent. Force them by their own regulations to be more and more dependent on each other, therefore they will need international banking to survive and prosper. International banking cartel does not like local commerce. They want us having to buy Chinese parts and sending our engineers to Saudia Arabia.
I think the general plan is to disable all countries from being independent. Force them by their own regulations to be more and more dependent on each other, therefore they will need international banking to survive and prosper. International banking cartel does not like local commerce. They want us having to buy Chinese parts and sending our engineers to Saudia Arabia.
More than that, they want everything to be interconnected in such a way that they can say, well we need a U.N. organization to regulate that, and that, and that. And we need the U.N. to get precedent over the laws of your country, so that we can control your country.
And then you get the NWO, which brings gun bans, socialism, communism, fascism, eugenics, police state, class warfare just to name a few of the affects of the NWO. Their end game is world domination.
@ rkba01, we have everything we need to drill here and drill now. It's the hippies, tree-huggers, anarchists, and socialist/communist/fascists that make it impossible to drill here and now. And the OPEC goons too.
Bringing manufacturing home is another big step in all this. We could make all we need right here in America. We don't need China, we don't need the Middle East, we don't need anything but what we can make right here.
Belmont31R
08-19-11, 22:37
I have never understood this. To me this is a security breach of the highest order, but what do I know.
All I do realize is that without external energy (oil/coal/gas) our World As We Know It will not continue.
Maybe the idea is/was that we use their oil first and when the SHTF and the oil stops flowing we start drilling on our own turf. And that's all fine and dandy as long as we have the capacity and tools to do just that. Meaning we do not rely on China to produce our parts that we need to do the actual extraction processes.
I'm not so sure that we have all the tools/equipment necessary on CONUS to do this, but what do I know.
The biggest threat post Cold War has been Islamic Terrorists. OIL is a key funding mechanism of theirs. It would like be the same as the US buying BMW engines from Nazi Germany during WW2.
Terrorist nations or nations known to support terrorists are supplying OUR oil everyday. Iran is a big player, Saudi Arabia, ect.
I think its FOOLISH to think its some grand scheme to preserve a domestic oil supply in the long run when everyone else supposedly runs out of oil. When I was in grade school it started out as the world running out of oil around now. Then by the time I graduated HS it was 2050. Now its 2100 by the last estimates Ive seen.
Ive personally believed opening up off shore, and land domestic oil production would A. jump start the economy and B. get at least 500k jobs within a year. Obama was held in CONTEMPT OF COURT because they refused to issue Gulf oil drilling permits, and thats only one of many areas we could be drilling with extremely large yields. Based on an average of reports Ive read the US has the ability to produce, on a year basis, more oil than the middle east combined, and do so into the foreseeable future. But no....gotta keep sending hundreds of billions overseas to the muslims.
...found another Progressive Liberal to add to the block list. I love this thread.
evenodds20, I'd like to welcome you to the liberal ignore list! If we're considered Progressives, then I suppose we can call them Regressives. I wouldn't worry too much, you'll find many posters on here who feel like 'ol Dave. They'd rather put you on the ignore list than learn something that doesn't fit into their preconceived world portrait. This method of thinking will not be helpful in any conceivable SHTF scenario. Example: That granola chick down the way, grows the kick ass tomatoes, probably could learn a few gardening tips from her... so what if she doesn't shave her pits, I'm not eating those:D
As far as the Iranians go, the appointment of Ghasemi to Iranian Oil Minister is part of an internal power struggle. He can't unilaterally cease shipments to the West. He's there to try to keep OPEC together, as the member governments fall like dominos in the Arab Spring.
New ideas are scary!
They'd rather put you on the ignore list than learn something that doesn't fit into their preconceived world portrait.
Like a certain idiot who thinks Gore won the election.
Like a certain idiot who thinks Gore won the election.
Who are you speaking of, specifically. If Gore had won he would've been president.
Besides, the topic gets derailed when you get defensive...
Has anyone prepped for pandemic?
http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h376/DocMakerAR/IMG_1759.jpg
Evenodds, I don't know what you are up to here. The flash mobs are black. There are rampant white on black violent attacks that are race based. Are people supposed to not notice that their attackers are black and that they are being attacked because of the color of their skin?
Look at the DOJ crime statistics. A black man is 10x as likely to commit murder as a white man. (An asian man is only 0.5x as likely to commit murder as a white man.) And please don't tell me there are socioeconomic factors involved. That tired old jargon from the '60s and '70s does not carry weight any more.
Are you trying to portray a white person saying that "slang"? then following it up with an incident involving a black guy? interesting.
what does bill cosby have to do with it other than hes an icon in the black community?
people commonly make the comment that blacks reproduce nilly willy and therefore at alarming rates! this is the first thing i thought you meant when you made the "get it how you live" comment and then following it up with "THEY" reproduce yada yada yada.......
so who exactly did you mean by "they"?
blacks are commonly associated with "ghettos".
so i guess your saying im not the only one that has noticed this type of insinuation? this is definitely the first time i have pointed it out so you cant possibly mean im bringing it up for a second time! maybe there is a reason to the rhyme!
this whole conversation had very few mentions of actual zombie encounter. most mention was of the "ghetto", black men walking their pits with "thug attire", bill cosby, ....you get my point. so what exactly do you mean by "looks like a ____, acts like a ____? not to mention the youtube video someone posted of the civil unrest in Cali. and then someone mentioned "did anyone notice they were all black?"
Im not saying i disagree with you. and im definitely not saying i have an educated opinion. in fact, you and i would probably get along quite well. All i was doing was pointing out something that was rearing its little head, in my opinion.
I was merely pointing out that there could be a possibility of offense if the "right person" came in looking for trouble. Im NOT that guy. im not looking for trouble but i would like to join in on the conversation and i figured before someone takes some of these comments and runs with them, someone in the "group" might want to just make sure that these potentials are realized. trust me guys, im not offended.
wouldnt you rather you wife tell you you have food on your face, rather than letting you walk around in public all day?
Im the guy on the same team saving yall from a REAL issue instead of this little conversation we are having right now! ;)
QuietShootr
08-20-11, 07:14
NO. i said many people associate it. If you go to someone and ask them where the local "ghetto" is, most would probably point to the low income are of town, which alot of people associate racially.
I understand what you are saying, but i figured i would point it out anyways. i guess its ok to crack a joke and let minds run wild, but its not ok to point it out so it doesnt get too far over the line? I will drop the issue after this post.
as far as your suggestion to the Jewish uprising, i will definitely read up on it. it sounds interesting. But i can assure you that 99.9% of the time when the word Ghetto is mentioned, people dont automatically associate "jews" with it. you know it and i know it. and ill let that be that! thanks for the suggestion and im glad you see that i was just pointing out a potential offensive to a "person of similar race" to the insinuations in the past few posts.
Ive made 1 post, and then responded to the responses! am i not allowed to respond once in the scheme of having a conversation/debate? i cant retract or re explain my position to be better understood? maybe you have had one to many cups of coffee because you are quick to assume there buddy.
im dont with it. yall got the point. my mind isnt the only one that may wander. remember everyone that stumbles across a thread such as this one, can take into account what kind of people they perceive are posting up, and then make a general opinion about what their comments may or may not mean. im making a observation and making sure im not jumping into an online racial bashing party. i dont want to be apart of anything like that and since yall feel so strong about the fact that its not, i guess its not! saying someone is racist because they assumed your closet comments were racial is utter stupidity. i take text for what it is.
Who gives a ****?
/ignore
Are you trying to portray a white person saying that "slang"? then following it up with an incident involving a black guy? interesting.
Yea that's it.:rolleyes:
Evenodds, I don't know what you are up to here. The flash mobs are black. There are rampant white on black violent attacks that are race based. Are people supposed to not notice that their attackers are black and that they are being attacked because of the color of their skin?
Look at the DOJ crime statistics. A black man is 10x as likely to commit murder as a white man. (An asian man is only 0.5x as likely to commit murder as a white man.) And please don't tell me there are socioeconomic factors involved. That tired old jargon from the '60s and '70s does not carry weight any more.
all very true.
We need to stop pussyfooting around the subject and accept the fact that the new generation of blacks is indoctrinated into a mindset of entitlement. They feel that we owe them because 150 years ago their ancestors were slaves, and 50 years ago their grandparents weren't allowed to vote.
I think that's bull$h!T.
My ancestors didn't own slaves. They fought in the Civil War. They helped free slaves. When people say I'm a white racist, it makes me want to beat them with a blunt object. I'm the opposite. Unless we've redefined racism to mean that people who don't believe in entitlement programs, gun rights, small government, freedom, etc. are racists. Well then I guess I'm a racist.
Damn.
Look at the DOJ crime statistics. A black man is 10x as likely to commit murder as a white man. (An asian man is only 0.5x as likely to commit murder as a white man.) And please don't tell me there are socioeconomic factors involved. That tired old jargon from the '60s and '70s does not carry weight any more.
I took a look, like you said, your numbers are WAY off there Clark... Blacks are only 6.4% more likely to commit a homicide than whites. If you look here, you'll se those numbers trending down, significantly.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/race.cfm
As of 2008 there are 463 MORE whites on death row than blacks.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/drrace.cfm
Homicide Type by Race, 1976-2005
Offenders
White Black Other
All homicides
45.8% 52.2% 2.0%
Circumstances
Felony murder
39.1% 59.3% 1.6%
Sex related
54.7% 43.4% 1.9%
Drug related
33.9% 65.0% 1.1%
Gang related
54.3% 41.2% 4.4%
Argument
46.8% 51.1% 2.2%
Workplace
70.5% 26.7% 2.8%
Weapon
Gun homicide
41.9% 56.4% 1.7%
Arson
55.7% 42.0% 2.3%
Poison
79.8% 18.4% 1.8%
Multiple victims or offenders
Multiple victims
55.7% 40.8% 3.5%
Multiple offenders
44.6% 53.0% 2.4%
Belmont31R
08-20-11, 17:48
Doc-
By saying blacks are only 6.4% more likely to commit a murder that is not true because blacks and whites are not near equal in population numbers. Blacks are around 13% last I checked yet over half the murders from what you posted were from blacks.
A more accurate number would be what percent of black people have been convicted of murder vs. whites.
Ethnic groups
white 79.96%, black 12.85%, Asian 4.43%, Amerindian and Alaska native 0.97%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.18%, two or more races 1.61% (July 2007 estimate)
note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean persons of Spanish/Hispanic/Latino origin including those of Mexican, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Dominican Republic, Spanish, and Central or South American origin living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.); about 15.1% of the total US population is Hispanic
http://www.indexmundi.com/united_states/demographics_profile.html
So if we count whites at 75% of the total population they commit 45% of the murders. 13% (blacks) commit 52% of the murders.
Now you have about an equal chance of it either being a white or a black perp from the victims perspective. But dealing with the population issue it would seem whites out number blacks by 5.7 to 1. The only logical conclusion is that a black person is much more likely to commit a murder than a white. Whites and asians are under represented based on total population percentage while blacks are grossly over represented.
I'm not trying to make this a big deal but information is INTEL, and it should be as accurate as possible. The numbers cited in the survey have been adjusted for the population variations as you described above. So 6.4% is correct.
"The distribution of the sample population may differ somewhat from that of the total population in terms of age, race, sex, residence, and other characteristics. Because of this, two stages of ratio estimation are employed to bring the two distributions into closer agreement, thereby reducing the variability of the sample estimates." - http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/ncvs_methodology.pdf
I was citing Clark's DOJ numbers for Homicide Convictions, which were off the mark and WAY over-generalized. Blacks are 7 times more likely to commit a homicide However, 98% are black on black. The bottom line, any given citizen has a 1:128 chance of being the victim of violent crime. Of course, the odds go up depending on your lifestyle and neighborhood.
As a victim, you're more likely to be shot if you're black. Especially if you're a stranger to the perp. It's all here:http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm
-Violence against males, blacks, and persons age 24 or younger occurred at higher or somewhat higher rates than the rates of violence against females, whites, and persons age 25 or older in 2009." - DOJ http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=2217
-From 1976 to 2005 -- DOJ
86% of white victims were killed by whites
94% of black victims were killed by blacks
-
All I know is when I'm working in the hood, my doors are locked & I have my CCW on my person when outside the truck.
When I'm working in the country, I leave my CCW at home & have the windows down without a care in the world.
Label me what you like. IDGAF.
I hate contributing to this hijack but Doc Maker you’ve got me confused.
ClarkM said – “A black man is 10x as likely to commit murder as a white man”
To which you replied – “your numbers are WAY off there Clark... Blacks are only 6.4% more likely to commit a homicide than whites”
Then you said – “I was citing Clark's DOJ numbers for Homicide Convictions, which were off the mark and WAY over-generalized. Blacks are 7 times more likely to commit a homicide”
So…you defended your first statement and contradicted it in the same sentence. Then you drag it even further off topic by posting completely irrelevant victimization statistics.
Or am I not tracking?
Belmont31R
08-20-11, 22:04
NONE of the links you gave will work for me. Even doing a google search those sites wont come up.
If those numbers are adjusted for population then that is good. All the information I have looked up on the gov websites previously has shown blacks commit crimes at a much higher rate than other races including asians, whites, and hispanics.
Even looking at this page which would load ( http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_03.html )
Homicides by race in sheer numbers:
White Black Other Unknown
18 and over 4,794 4,731 215 106
Just want to clarify the above numbers are for OFFENDERS not victims, and are not adjusted "per capita".
It would appear blacks commit about the same number of murders as whites even though whites comprise 75% of the population versus 13% for blacks.
So its true that if you were going to get murdered it would be more or less an equal chance of the perp being black or white but theres 5.7X more whites than blacks.
Not trying to stir any racial shit here just posting facts off of gov websites and doing BASIC math to get my numbers. If it offends anyone these are all numbers put out by the government not me.
Blacks are 7 times more likely to commit a homicide
OK, my rounding was slightly off. But seems to me that blacks are waaaaay more likely to murder than whites (and waaaaay waaaay waaaay more likely to murder than asians).
However, 98% are black on black.
So.... it should not be considered a crime???
Good post.
I hate contributing to this hijack but Doc Maker you’ve got me confused.
ClarkM said – “A black man is 10x as likely to commit murder as a white man”
To which you replied – “your numbers are WAY off there Clark... Blacks are only 6.4% more likely to commit a homicide than whites”
Then you said – “I was citing Clark's DOJ numbers for Homicide Convictions, which were off the mark and WAY over-generalized. Blacks are 7 times more likely to commit a homicide”
So…you defended your first statement and contradicted it in the same sentence. Then you drag it even further off topic by posting completely irrelevant victimization statistics.
Or am I not tracking?
ForTehNguyen
08-20-11, 22:35
http://www.taipanpublishinggroup.com/tpg/taipan-daily/taipan-daily-081811.html?sub=TD&o=438224&s=441612&u=48412125&l=298798&r=Milo
Buy a Gun
Joseph McBrennan, Editor, Taipan Publishing Group
Thursday, 18 August 2011
Our nation is getting desperate. When will chaos rise in our streets?
Buy a weapon to prepare for what may be the most devastating economic downturn our nation has ever faced. As one trained in economics, I never thought I'd write those words.
However, I'll repeat them. Buy a gun.
The coming storm will not only impose financial hardships for those unprepared, but also entail a physical threat to you, your family and your property.
The threat will come from inside the halls of government with the constant attack on savings and investments through inflation, monetary gimmickry and, eventually, the destruction of our currency.
These events will be led by welfare programs gone awry. A recent nearby incident, and events in London, forced me to confront a reality too few wish to believe. Here's what FT.com's Gautam Malkani had to say:
The speed of the disintegration said everything. It took less than 48 hours for London to descend from self-styled capital of the world into a circuit of burning dystopian hells. The speed of BlackBerry messaging; the speed of kids on BMXs; the speed of Molotovs and petrol. Never mind the police, even the media couldn't keep up.
The world around us is deteriorating every day: socially and economically. It's not limited to London.
England seems pretty distant, but when the chaos rears up in your backyard, literally, you begin to prioritize and prepare. I suggest you do the same.
Let me explain.
Last Saturday night, in a very upscale neighborhood a few blocks from where I live, a horde of what can only be described as feral youth descended upon a very upscale outdoor shopping area called the Country Club Plaza.
They arrived around 11 p.m. after their cellphones alerted them that this upper-middle-class shopping district, two miles from the third-richest residential area in the country, was the target for that evening.
Within an hour, shots were fired by one group of kids at another and three children were hospitalized.
It's not the first flash mob to hit Kansas City and likely won't be the last. If our city's mayor had not coincidentally been on the scene, our local media would have swept it under the rug.
As you could expect, they've attributed the "disturbance" to kids not having enough activities "like night basketball." In other words, the middle class needs to entertain these hooligans or they'll entertain themselves by robbing and terrorizing the productive class.
Philadelphia's mayor has been dealing with these thugs for 24 months. Here's the recent reaction from Mayor Michael Nutter:
"You've damaged yourself, you've damaged another person, you've damaged your peers and, quite honestly, you've damaged your own race."
Mayor Nutter didn't stop there. He blasted the youth and their parents of Philadelphia with:
Take those God darn hoodies down, especially in the summer. Pull your pants up and buy a belt 'cause no one wants to see your underwear or the crack of your butt. Nobody.
If you walk into somebody's office with your hair uncombed and a pick in the back, and your shoes untied, and your pants half down, tattoos up and down your arms and on your neck, and you wonder why somebody won't hire you? They don't hire you 'cause you look like you're crazy!
The Immaculate Conception of our Lord Jesus Christ took place a long time ago, and it didn't happen here in Philadelphia. So every one of these kids has two parents who were around and participating at the time. They need to be around now.
Parents who neglect their children, who don't know where they are, who don't know what they're doing, who don't know who they're hanging out with, you're going to find yourself spending some quality time with your kids in jail.
To fathers: "If you're not providing the guidance, and you're not sending any money, you're just a sperm donor."
That's powerful stuff, but I dare say many wish it were said sooner. I would also suggest that too many should have said it, but feared being labeled a racist if they utter such cutting, yet accurate, remarks.
If London, Kansas City or Philadelphia were isolated events, I'd not bother mentioning it. It's occurring everywhere. The signs of our crumbling civilization are all around us. The same stories are being reported from Chicago to Miami and from coast to coast.
It's even occurring in what is considered one of the most civilized countries in the world. The Associated Press reported Aug. 17 that Swedish police say unrest erupted overnight in Goteborg, the country's second-largest city, as several officers were attacked by youths hurling rocks and Molotov cocktails.
I've heard all the theories of why this group or that group should be excused for animal-like behavior.
And, like Mayor Nutter, I'm calling those excuses what they are. B.S.
The root cause is the destruction of family by the federal government and its welfare policies. Fathers are no longer needed, or even economically beneficial, when Big Brother steps in and pays unwed mothers more, monthly, for each fatherless child they drop from their wombs.
If you look at the numbers, it's a lucrative cottage industry in some parts of the United States.
Combine these destructive policies of the federal government with the costliest "free" education on the planet that teaches nothing except that you're a victim, sprinkle a little left-wing media propaganda, and you have the perfect formula for a civil unrest.
Economically speaking, we had far more poor during the Great Depression than we do today, so please don't tell me it's because our poor are so underprivileged. We also had far less crime in the '30s.
The real facts tell a very different story.
The United States has no significant amount of real poor. By this I mean destitute, suffering from malnutrition or without material goods. By most standards, our poor are very well off.
The so-called poor of our country are angry, though their rage is baseless. They have received without contribution, and take without merit.
The ones who should be outraged in our country are the middle classes. They should be rioting.
Our retirements are stolen. They'll either nationalize it on the next major market drop, or it'll be eaten up by Big Ben's inflation. Either way, it's locked into worthless dollar-denominated investments through the government regulations that assume we are too irresponsible to take care of our own lives.
Of course we know the Social Security we've paid into for a lifetime has been stolen right out from under our noses. There's nothing there but Treasury IOUs, now rated AA+.
And all the while we face these delights, we're browbeaten by Obama into believing we are not paying our "fair share."
Everything we hold sacred, family, honesty, hard work, religion, savings and the Constitution, is snickered at by the elite of Washington and the puppet masters on Wall Street.
Their game is nearly over. Their world of social engineering and financial gimmickry is ending. The fabric of all nations is disintegrating before our eyes.
If you're loving this article, sign up for Taipan Daily to receive all of Justice Litle and Joseph McBrennan's investment commentary.
In February I wrote:
Our World Is Unraveling...[my theme has been one of] safety, capital preservation and self-reliance. We even recommended purchasing raw agriculture land as an alternative, or supplement, to precious metals.
Everything we've discussed from land to offshore banking was to prepare you without scaring you. It appears my time frame may have been overly optimistic. We have less time than I thought.
Now, six months later, our message is more urgent than ever.
In troubled times like these, the prepared will prosper, and so I'll return to my constant message: secure rock-solid investments, have a reserve of cash on hand, maintain a reliable alternative to the dollar, consider a retreat outside major metropolitan area, and...
Buy a gun.
P.S. I am sure I've disturbed some of the social-justice crowd with the above. I welcome your emotionally based responses at joseph@taipandaily.com.
Publisher's Note: Joseph is not the only one at Taipan raising a red flag. Another of our insiders -- a U.S. dollar expert -- believes the U.S. will see riots like those we saw in London.
Anything could be the trigger that sets off these riots.
But all our research leads us to the same conclusion: The event with the single highest probability for triggering an all-out collapse of civility in the next 180 days is explained in this groundbreaking video report that you can access right here.
I hate contributing to this hijack but Doc Maker you’ve got me confused.
ClarkM said – “A black man is 10x as likely to commit murder as a white man”
To which you replied – “your numbers are WAY off there Clark... Blacks are only 6.4% more likely to commit a homicide than whites”
Then you said – “I was citing Clark's DOJ numbers for Homicide Convictions, which were off the mark and WAY over-generalized. Blacks are 7 times more likely to commit a homicide”
So…you defended your first statement and contradicted it in the same sentence. Then you drag it even further off topic by posting completely irrelevant victimization statistics.
Or am I not tracking?
You're not tracking...
6.4% more likely than WHITES
7x more likely including ALL RACES.
I should have been clearer, my mistake. And it's hardly a hijack since this thread seems to concentrate on this subject every couple of pages. I only chimed in on Clark's statistics, not his point. It's possible to make a point without over-inflating your numbers or using hyperbole.
If anyone is having trouble with the links I posted, just ask ClarkM. He should know where his numbers come from. Or, if you'd like to do your own research, then Google: "DOJ homicide rates by race."
ClarkM - "OK, my rounding was slightly off. But seems to me that blacks are waaaaay more likely to murder than whites (and waaaaay waaaay waaaay more likely to murder than asians)."
If you consider 6.4% waaaaay (did I use enough a's?) more likely. There are more whites on death row. 87% are white on white. That means a white killer is more likely to make a victim out of another race. Think of all of the craziest psycho serial killers in recent memory. Bundy, Gacy, Dahmer, the list goes on. Columbine, Norway, OKC...
If someone's afraid to drive in a certain neighborhood with the windows down, then that person probably lives the rest of their life in some degree of fear as well. That's not my point or my problem. I have no issues walking around the Central District or Beltown in Seattle. Unarmed, too. I can handle myself without a firearm as well as I can with one.
Partially quoting me, I said, Quote: However, 98% are black on black. and you said...
"So.... it should not be considered a crime???"
I have no response to this idiotic comment. You are VERY good at shooting your mouth off but I doubt you could hit a target.
You gentle men have wandered into the minutiae up to your shoulders.
There are two kinds of people derailing this thread, those that need a cold beer and a warm woman to watch "Men of Honor" with and those that need the same trappings with which to watch "Rudy".
You gentle men have wandered into the minutiae up to your shoulders.
There are two kinds of people derailing this thread, those that need a cold beer and a warm woman to watch "Men of Honor" with and those that need the same trappings with which to watch "Rudy".
Fair enough... I was never naive enough to think that I knew it all. I take very great exception to fear-mongering. For example: a term posted earlier, "flash mob," is a very different thing than the "flash riots" being described in those same posts, they're actually two different things. Over-exageration of the subject matter and wedge issue talking points are designed to keep us arguing about the minutiae instead of the real issues. As stated eloquently in this article...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-real-grand-bargain-coming-undone/2011/08/19/gIQA8wYiQJ_story_1.html
Moose-Knuckle
08-21-11, 01:44
I take very great exception to fear-mongering. For example: a term posted earlier, "flash mob," is a very different thing than the "flash riots" being described in those same posts, they're actually two different things. Over-exageration of the subject matter and wedge issue talking points are designed to keep us arguing about the minutiae instead of the real issues.
You are splitting hairs. Tell you what, get back with me when a "flash mob" shows up on your lawn as opposed to a "flash riot". ;)
Moose-Knuckle
08-21-11, 01:46
http://www.taipanpublishinggroup.com/tpg/taipan-daily/taipan-daily-081811.html?sub=TD&o=438224&s=441612&u=48412125&l=298798&r=Milo
Great article!
Tell me how differentiating between two completely different things is splitting hairs? The civil disturbances described in earlier posts are called "flash riots." That's when a civil protest turns violent. I was caught in the Seattle WTO flash riots. My apartment was inside the police exclusion zone. I had to show my papers to go back and forth to work. Every day, I needed ID, my lease and a letter from Amazon.com (my employer at the time,) just to walk the eight blocks to work. Try that on for size in a free country. It sure wasn't the protesters checking "mein papiere." I suggest that we focus on the most likely candidates for a large civil disturbance, the established groups of the extreme left & right. Eco-terrorists, so-called "anarchists" (a misnomer since they organize) and extreme right-wing separatists. These are the dangerous groups that will plan a "flash riot" just to throw gasoline on a flame. They're organized and motivated. On the other hand, street gangs already operate as a criminal element on a daily basis. A lawless environment is just a crime of opportunity for those groups.
I'd love it if a real "flash MOB" showed up on my lawn. It's really just a bunch of kids organizing on social media. VERY different, Moose. an example would be a fraternity showing up at a mall and doing the dance from "Thriller," that is a true "flash mob." This misunderstanding is most probably evidence of some mistake by a young newsroom intern writing a civil disturbance story, poorly. Unless you live in the inner city. There will be no gang bangers rolling down Elm St. The first looter/thief I expect to catch will probably be a neighbor. As far as the "Buy a Gun" article goes... if anyone is reading that and doesn't already own a firearm, they're in deep trouble already. Owning a firearm only makes you dangerous to yourself, skill with that firearm makes you dangerous to your enemy. It takes about 20,000 rounds to really know your pistol and most gun owners only shoot a couple hundred rounds a month.
viperashes
08-21-11, 05:04
We can argue drivel about how accurate statistics are for days on end. The point is, regardless of race, creed, religion, or sexual preference, people are more and more likely to get caught in the middle of one of these damn "flash mob/flash riots." (Although I do agree that the original meaning to the term "flash mob" was a non-violent public demonstration, much like the no-pants train ride, or grand central station choreography thing.)
back to the mass civil disturbance theme of the thread... :rolleyes:... being that I work in close proximity to Brits, I've had a few good discussions about gun control in the UK and what their thoughts are. The Brits that I've talked to are overwhelmingly pro-gun. Especially with the numerous outbreaks that have happened in the last couple of months and want to see more leniency with private gun ownership.
One that I talked to stated that while he owns shotguns for hunting and sport shooting, if someone were to come in his home to try to rob him, he's basically expected to just call the police and let the guy rob the place. We all know what each one of us here would do. Apparently though, if someone comes in to YOUR home and robs you, and you shoot them there you can be slapped with criminal charges, not only that, but there is no protection from the family of the crook suing you blind, and then some.
With the alarming rate of increase, not only in the US, but in European countries as well, of these riots happening, and the open availability of social networking sites, it's not hard for a small group of individuals to contact a large group of people to recruit. Long gone are the days where people had to actually go out and meet people face-to-face to share an idea. I mean, look at what we are doing right here, sharing and debating our thoughts on the what/when/why's of the social upset that is turning the world into a war zone.
We can argue drivel about how accurate statistics are for days on end. The point is, regardless of race, creed, religion, or sexual preference, people are more and more likely to get caught in the middle of one of these damn "flash mob/flash riots." (Although I do agree that the original meaning to the term "flash mob" was a non-violent public demonstration, much like the no-pants train ride, or grand central station choreography thing.)
back to the mass civil disturbance theme of the thread... :rolleyes:... being that I work in close proximity to Brits, I've had a few good discussions about gun control in the UK and what their thoughts are. The Brits that I've talked to are overwhelmingly pro-gun. Especially with the numerous outbreaks that have happened in the last couple of months and want to see more leniency with private gun ownership.
One that I talked to stated that while he owns shotguns for hunting and sport shooting, if someone were to come in his home to try to rob him, he's basically expected to just call the police and let the guy rob the place. We all know what each one of us here would do. Apparently though, if someone comes in to YOUR home and robs you, and you shoot them there you can be slapped with criminal charges, not only that, but there is no protection from the family of the crook suing you blind, and then some.
With the alarming rate of increase, not only in the US, but in European countries as well, of these riots happening, and the open availability of social networking sites, it's not hard for a small group of individuals to contact a large group of people to recruit. Long gone are the days where people had to actually go out and meet people face-to-face to share an idea. I mean, look at what we are doing right here, sharing and debating our thoughts on the what/when/why's of the social upset that is turning the world into a war zone.
I've spoke with a few Brits of the same opinion. And a month ago one of these guys was blatantly anti-gun. After he called family in Britain during the riots, they explained to him that he needed a gun. They said when this came to America, only the strong and the gun-toting would survive it.
in regards to the discussion of crime, blacks, etc. I'll say this: I'm more worried by the age, dress, and attitude of someone than their race. If they're 17 and in baggy pants, hoodies, untied shoes, etc. I'm on higher alert than if someone who's 35, in slacks and a collared shirt walks in. Then again, the vast majority of these kids in baggy pants, hoodies, etc, are almost all Black or Hispanic. Just saying. And when Obama, Ms. Jackson-Lee, Sharpton, Jeremiah Wright, etc. are out trying to fan the fires of a race-war, I'm on higher alert around blacks. I just am. At least, black teens.
You are 100% correct viper. I lived in London for a spell and the Dunblane shooting happened while I was there. The Tories used the attack to strip guns from the people. I have a lot of shooting buddies, originally from the UK, who now live in the US. Luckily, that can't happen here, at least the same way the Brits did it. There is NO WRITTEN CONSTITUTION in the UK! They have no guaranteed "Bill of Rights." Historically, all rights are granted by the Crown. :sarcastic:
Around here, the Pacific NW, I consider the most likely SHTF scenarios to be a major seismic event or a pandemic. Unless the Canadians invade...
No, you're "that guy". You just don't think you're that guy.
Everyone may as well go ahead & put you on their ignore list right now, because it's obvious you can't or won't drop it.
And the left is so much worse than the right. Lol.
For this exact reason, I have a hard time "watch dogging" any particular race or group, even though deep down I am what some might call a racist haha.
The only thing that scares me more than mobs of poor black and other groups rioting, is the scared right wing "conservative" looking to make the pieces fit his puzzle, and go into zombie-slaying mode.
Unless the Canadians invade...
Now there's a scary thought.
viperashes
08-21-11, 12:44
You are 100% correct viper. I lived in London for a spell and the Dunblane shooting happened while I was there. The Tories used the attack to strip guns from the people. I have a lot of shooting buddies, originally from the UK, who now live in the US. Luckily, that can't happen here, at least the same way the Brits did it. There is NO WRITTEN CONSTITUTION in the UK! They have no guaranteed "Bill of Rights." Historically, all rights are granted by the Crown. :sarcastic:
Around here, the Pacific NW, I consider the most likely SHTF scenarios to be a major seismic event or a pandemic. Unless the Canadians invade...
Now there's a scary thought.
You beat me to it.
Everybody watch those shady Canadians. :laugh:
Kind of a side shoot of the original conversation, but I think it ties in. I would assume that all of us here that can, do carry. What about a backup gun? Personally, I have a G19 for carry, and while it's a great carry gun, even something that large will be near impossible to conceal. I've recently started looking around online and am interested in getting a G26 as well. Not necessarily to carry concurrently with my G19, per se, but as another carry option.
For example, a summer ride on the Harley. The G19 isn't going to conceal as well in summer clothing, still doable, but less comfortable than a G26 would be with a flush 10 round magazine. Then I started thinking about how feasible it would be to carry both. While people do it, obviously, me being a pretty small guy, I don't know how well I could conceal a second handgun, but if I did, I would want it to have platform compatability, so, it's either the G26 or nothing.
Also, another question that started to come to mind, after reading some of the comments. Some people leave their CCW if they go to certain places, and other places they won't go without it. For those that carry a backup piece, do you always carry it, or do you only carry it when there is a higher likelihood, although still pretty miniscule, that you may need it?
You're not tracking...
6.4% more likely than WHITES
7x more likely including ALL RACES.
I should have been clearer, my mistake. And it's hardly a hijack since this thread seems to concentrate on this subject every couple of pages. I only chimed in on Clark's statistics, not his point. It's possible to make a point without over-inflating your numbers or using hyperbole.
If anyone is having trouble with the links I posted, just ask ClarkM. He should know where his numbers come from. Or, if you'd like to do your own research, then Google: "DOJ homicide rates by race."
ClarkM - "OK, my rounding was slightly off. But seems to me that blacks are waaaaay more likely to murder than whites (and waaaaay waaaay waaaay more likely to murder than asians)."
If you consider 6.4% waaaaay (did I use enough a's?) more likely. There are more whites on death row. 87% are white on white. That means a white killer is more likely to make a victim out of another race. Think of all of the craziest psycho serial killers in recent memory. Bundy, Gacy, Dahmer, the list goes on. Columbine, Norway, OKC...
If someone's afraid to drive in a certain neighborhood with the windows down, then that person probably lives the rest of their life in some degree of fear as well. That's not my point or my problem. I have no issues walking around the Central District or Beltown in Seattle. Unarmed, too. I can handle myself without a firearm as well as I can with one.
Partially quoting me, I said, Quote: However, 98% are black on black. and you said...
"So.... it should not be considered a crime???"
I have no response to this idiotic comment. You are VERY good at shooting your mouth off but I doubt you could hit a target.
Doc Maker,
You are flat wrong.
From one of your own links, specifically referring to homicide:
“In 2005, offending rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher than the rates for whites”
So where exactly do you get the 6.4% from? That should actually be more than 700%. Which most people would, I suspect, consider as "waaaaay" more likely.
The raw data is readily available here. No adjustments and no qualifications.:
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats
"information is INTEL, and it should be as accurate as possible".
You should head your own advice.
I do not post this to disparage any person because of their race. I’m just tired of political correctness and agenda driven “facts” trumping truth.
Doc Maker,
You are flat wrong.
From one of your own links, specifically referring to homicide:
“In 2005, offending rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher than the rates for whites”
So where exactly do you get the 6.4% from? That should actually be more than 700%. Which most people would, I suspect, consider as "waaaaay" more likely.
The raw data is readily available here. No adjustments and no qualifications.:
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats
"information is INTEL, and it should be as accurate as possible".
You should head your own advice.
I do not post this to disparage any person because of their race. I’m just tired of political correctness and agenda driven “facts” trumping truth.
He has already corrected his info, no need to rehash.
viperashes
08-21-11, 12:57
Doc Maker,
You are flat wrong.
From one of your own links, specifically referring to homicide:
“In 2005, offending rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher than the rates for whites”
So where exactly do you get the 6.4% from? That should actually be more than 700%. Which most people would, I suspect, consider as "waaaaay" more likely.
The raw data is readily available here. No adjustments and no qualifications.:
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats
"information is INTEL, and it should be as accurate as possible".
You should head your own advice.
I do not post this to disparage any person because of their race. I’m just tired of political correctness and agenda driven “facts” trumping truth.
We all have our own thoughts on this. What has to be realized by everyone is that we all live in different communities, and in different parts of the country. In my area, white crime is more prominent for the simple fact that there are more whites, followed by hispanics, and a very small minority of blacks, and most of them are older.
I think that this conversation is best left as it is, and we should veer the conversation toward something more conducive to the overall theme of the thread and "disaster preparedness for civil disturbance" rather than argue drivel about how accurate these statistics are.
Don't get me wrong, statistics are good, but an overall statistic is only accurate in the big picture. Our individual communities are going to deviate from those statistics wildly, and that is, in my opinion, why so many of us have differing opinions.
My point is, we can argue and drive it in the ground, and ultimately argue, or we can continue to converse about the grand scheme of things and how we are going to prepare for it.
Jeez I go on vacation and leave you kids for one second and all hell breaks loose!
Seriously, statistics are just that, statistics! It MIGHT help you profile someone, and it might also prevent you from seeing the real threat! A piece of shit is a piece of shit no matter if they're white, black, red, brown, yellow, or purple! If someone says that "some (insert race) guy just went out last night and blew 5 people away", and that is a FACT of the incident, then that doesn't make you a racist! So lets try to just drop this race crap, call a spade a spade, avoid all the PC bullcrap, and stay focused on current events.
I was just in WY for vacation this week, and when I went in to Jackson Hole, I carried...and in case you didn't know, JH is made up of about 99% whites. Don't just carry and be prepared only when you THINK there is a threat. Like the title of this thread alludes to, be prepared for anything at any time.
And the left is so much worse than the right. Lol.
For this exact reason, I have a hard time "watch dogging" any particular race or group, even though deep down I am what some might call a racist haha.
The only thing that scares me more than mobs of poor black and other groups rioting, is the scared right wing "conservative" looking to make the pieces fit his puzzle, and go into zombie-slaying mode.
wtf are you even talking about? Nowhere did I mention anything about "sides", or race - nor was it even vaguely implied. Nice try though. Since it isn't obvious to you:..... "that guy" means someone that can't or won't drop a point, so we can get back on topic & it seems to me I've found yet one more.
To avoid any further thread hijack, I'm just going to go ahead & add to my ignore list
QuietShootr
08-21-11, 17:54
ENOUGH of this shit already. We all know who does what, and despite the efforts of many to sidetrack the discussion, the fact is we know who does what. Now let that go and get back to the original discussion.
Unless you want to let the ghost of Alinsky win again, that is.
Personally, for me, the next person who spews any bullshit about "Zombies do not commit any more crime than normal animated people, you're just racist" is going straight to my ignore list.
Continuing -
Simply, you must be prepared to GTFO of the area if you are caught in the beginnings of a Flash Zombie Mob. And, you have to be prepared to repel the hordes from wherever your final destination is. This can best be accomplished by having that final destination far off the beaten path, and outside normal zombie operating territory.
You beat me to it.
Everybody watch those shady Canadians. :laugh:
Kind of a side shoot of the original conversation, but I think it ties in. I would assume that all of us here that can, do carry. What about a backup gun?
Also, another question that started to come to mind, after reading some of the comments. Some people leave their CCW if they go to certain places, and other places they won't go without it. For those that carry a backup piece, do you always carry it, or do you only carry it when there is a higher likelihood, although still pretty miniscule, that you may need it?
Simple1... You need to re-read the earlier posts more carefully which are about fear-mongering and over-exageration, NOT racism. My numbers are correct. Do your own homework, I won't re-hash this. Besides... everybody has a red face when I see them through my ACOG.
As far as a back up, I have a collapsible baton that I go to first. It's small and usually precludes the use of my carry pistol (Beretta PX4c) as soon as it comes out. I'll take a life as a last resort. He may die but I have to live with it, so it better be justified. In a truly dangerous situation, the pistol is only used to get to the rifle. Even during the worst days of WTO, I never felt threatened enough to draw my pistol.
Like I mentioned earlier, the zombies that worry me are the ones that are organized and motivated. The groups that show up at a civil, peaceful gathering, just to light a match.
Mr. Nguyen, I sent that article off to all of the friends on my email list.
____
In case no one has noticed, almost all race-based crime (not all, but statistically almost all) is black on white crime. There are exceptions. For example, in San Francisco the cops found that blacks were specifically targeting asian victims who were believed to (a) have cash in their pocket, and (b) were less likely than other victims to make a report to the police.
However, the press got a huge boner over this story, as they buried hundreds of other black on white race-based attacks:
http://www.etidbits.com/teen-in-alleged-hit-and-run-hate-crime-isolated-from-other-prisoners=7918
viperashes
08-22-11, 01:01
Simple1... You need to re-read the earlier posts more carefully which are about fear-mongering and over-exageration, NOT racism. My numbers are correct. Do your own homework, I won't re-hash this. Besides... everybody has a red face when I see them through my ACOG.
As far as a back up, I have a collapsible baton that I go to first. It's small and usually precludes the use of my carry pistol (Beretta PX4c) as soon as it comes out. I'll take a life as a last resort. He may die but I have to live with it, so it better be justified. In a truly dangerous situation, the pistol is only used to get to the rifle. Even during the worst days of WTO, I never felt threatened enough to draw my pistol.
Like I mentioned earlier, the zombies that worry me are the ones that are organized and motivated. The groups that show up at a civil, peaceful gathering, just to light a match.
I appreciate your response, and it was pretty much in line with my thoughts. The reason I brought up the topic in our conversation was that I got into a discussion the other day with some coworkers on the topic of, seriously, it's a dead horse, but "9mm vs. .40". :rolleyes:
One of the individuals I was talking to carries a .40 caliber something or other, then carries a backup. His justification was that .40 penetrates intermediate targets better, and 9mm is apparently a "plinking round". :rolleyes:
My arguement, and why this ties in to our discussion, was that if I, at any point (in a civilian setting, not military) need to start shooting through barriers, such as a windshield or car door, all I'm going to do is shoot to move and 1.) get the hell out of there 2.) fight my way to a long gun IF I HAVE TO. or 3.) if I HAVE to fight, and don't have a long gun. I'm going to fight my way to a position where I don't have to shoot through barriers to neutralize my target.
I think we as shooters and, in some senses of the word, "survivalists", get wrapped around the axle of getting into some huge firefight in the middle of the street and the bad guy hunkering down leaving us in the middle of the wide open with no where to go but to engage the guy. That probability is exceptionally infinitesimal.
I do hate to veer toward that ridiculous old argument on caliber selection, but personally, with modern ammunition, and our own skills and preparedness, caliber choice, while still semi-important, plays a much smaller role in the scheme of fire and maneuver to neutralize a threat. If your weapon isn't doing the job that you need it to do, you don't need the same gun in a bigger caliber, you need a bigger damn gun in a lot bigger caliber.
Shoot, Move, and Communicate. The three basic principles of winning a gunfight.
Also, although I know my post is becoming somewhat of a tangent, my final thought relates to the "mission of the Marine Corps rifle squad": To locate, close with, and destroy the enemy, by fire and maneuver, or repel the enemy assault by fire and close combat.
If you are closing with and engaging a fortified enemy with nothing but a handgun, you need to seriously reassess your situation. We can only prepare for so much, and some situations are just insurmountable, so you have to fight your way out to survive, rather than in to stop the threat.
I know what you mean viper. I always ask the .45 guys if they want me to "sting" them with my 9mm and they never say yes. Wonder why? The old caliber argument doesn't hold the weight that it used to. Ammunition technology has increased many times over since the 9mm first became widely used. I use bonded rounds in my carry gun. Designed to penetrate without fragmenting and still deliver enough terminal energy to neutralize the target. I also like the capacity in the PX4 compact. I can add a +3 extender and use a spring from a 17 round magazine and I get 18+1.
Moose-Knuckle
08-22-11, 03:55
Tell me how differentiating between two completely different things is splitting hairs?
I'd love it if a real "flash MOB" showed up on my lawn. It's really just a bunch of kids organizing on social media. VERY different, Moose. an example would be a fraternity showing up at a mall and doing the dance from "Thriller," that is a true "flash mob."
1mob noun \ˈmäb\
1 : a large or disorderly crowd; especially: one bent on riotous or destructive action
In the context of this thread and others here on M4C, flash mob is NOT referring to the organized groups of individuals that show up at a pre-determined public location to stage an interpretive dance.
The media (various examples in this sub-forum as well as GD) has coined the recent rash of ANGRY BLACK YOUTH who make entry into a business with the sole purpose to commit theft, shop lift, steal, break items, knock over shelves / displays, destroy merchandise, et al as a FLASH MOB. As they are a mob (see Webster's definition above) who organize in a flash via social network media. Flash meaning a relative short amount of time, not a glimmer of light. . .just in case you needed that one explained too.
You may not agree with the media’s coining of this term. You may even not like the media’s usage of said term, doesn’t really matter because at the end of the day you and everyone else in this discussion know damn well what the they are talking about. But feel free to contact every media outlet in the nation to inform them they have been using the wrong term to describe recent mass robberies across the nation.
Personally I prefer the term flash trash for these oxygen thieves. ;)
viperashes
08-22-11, 04:02
I know what you mean viper. I always ask the .45 guys if they want me to "sting" them with my 9mm and they never say yes. Wonder why? The old caliber argument doesn't hold the weight that it used to. Ammunition technology has increased many times over since the 9mm first became widely used. I use bonded rounds in my carry gun. Designed to penetrate without fragmenting and still deliver enough terminal energy to neutralize the target. I also like the capacity in the PX4 compact. I can add a +3 extender and use a spring from a 17 round magazine and I get 18+1.
That's pretty funny. I might have to use that one on a buddy of mine. That'll rub him good. :lol:
That's almost my exact mode of thinking. I would rather carry "more" with a slightly smaller, yet, not much less powerful cartridge. I have no intention of getting into a gunfight in the first place, let alone, one that is going to have me shooting through windshields or barriers, or throwing bullets around corners, etc., et al nonsense. I like having 15+1 capacity with my flush mags in my G19 with good, proven 9mm ammunition inside of them. VERY manageable recoil, quick follow-up shots, and plenty of ammunition.
I will say this though, if I ever do have to get myself into a gunfight with someone, they better send me to the good Lord quickly, because I'm going to make them pray for Satan's kindness, with the fury, piss and vinegar that I'm going to bring. Gunfights are scary, don't get me wrong, but getting shot at pisses me off, more than anything. :mad: GOD I hate getting shot at.
To tie in with my little offshoot conversation, I wonder how long until these flash riots start involving weapons. It's only a matter of time. We can't all walk around with rifles and shotguns on our chest. That's actually a prime example of what I'm getting at. These cowardly bastards have and will hide among innocents to shield themselves from the ones that are trying to stop them from their looting and pillaging.
Moose-Knuckle
08-22-11, 04:32
Rapper arrested in Ohio after organizing flash mob
http://news.yahoo.com/rapper-arrested-ohio-organizing-flash-mob-133410240.html
Kelly tweeted later that "today was a statement."
Gee, I wonder. . .
Whatever could his message be? :rolleyes:
C'mon Moose, tone down the font a little bit. As I said earlier, I'm not going to respond if you can't take the time to read my posts carefully. If I get a call that says a "flash mob" is down the street, I'll grab the camera and head off to the scene to film a piece for the local TV news. That's my job.
I will respond in a COMPLETELY different manner to a call that a "flash riot" is in progress at that same spot. I'd still grab my camera but I'd also wear my vest and carry gun. Just like I did in the sandbox.
Viper, I've been involved in approximately 30 violent protests as a cameraman. From WTO in Seattle to Jerusalem to Baghdad and there are two consistent variables, the authority forces (police) and the organized protest groups (ELF, etc.) At WTO, I just tried to make it through the madness to get to and from my job at Amazon, where I worked back then. The police were overwhelmed by the sheer numbers and poor communication from superiors. Also, the SPD hadn't seen unrest like this before, with targeted violence and organized mayhem. This is a textbook example of an unprepared police force. Poor intel prior to the event left them blind.
In the sandbox, I'd see a different type of riot. Protesters weren't asking for better wages or more vacation. These were hungry people with no electricity, no water and little hope for reprieve anytime soon. On the other side, a police force that was indoctrinated under Saddam to crush ANY protest. This is an example of a VERY dangerous protest. Gunfire was a common dispersement device.
I mention these examples to try to illustrate the warning signs, if you ever find yourself caught in one. Try to make your way out to the edge before the police cordon off the area. It's always harder to leave the area after the exclusion zone is in place. If you're trapped inside the zone, try to get out through the shops and apartments. In London '09, I was in the zone at Bank and I was only able to leave through a Starbuck's filled with cops, because I had a press pass. There's always an intitiating incident. An over-reaction by one side or the other, usually exacerbated by the heat. For some reason it's always hot at a riot.
viperashes
08-22-11, 04:51
Rapper arrested in Ohio after organizing flash mob
http://news.yahoo.com/rapper-arrested-ohio-organizing-flash-mob-133410240.html
Gee, I wonder. . .
Whatever could his message be? :rolleyes:
Moose,
Flash mob / flash riot, it doesn't matter what it is called. What does matter is what are we going to do to prepare for when we get caught in the middle of it.
This Flash mob/Flash riot argument is turning into the grade school Soda/Pop arguement. Who gives a shit what it is called? Does it REALLY matter that much? No. It doesn't. It doesn't negatively affect your life, so let it fly with your knees in the breeze, brother.
I'm not trying to be the hippy-liberal-everybody get along-guy here, but the bigger question here is what we can do to protect ourselves from getting caught up in the middle of one of these flash zombie attacks (there, middle ground, compromise).
These cretins are screwing up our country about as fast as our politicians are spending money that we don't have. And they're getting bigger, and more frequent. The fact is, we as a society, and as a community, have to figure out a way to curb some of this crap before it does come to the point where people are getting killed and/or weapons are involved.
viperashes
08-22-11, 05:04
C'mon Moose, tone down the font a little bit. As I said earlier, I'm not going to respond if you can't take the time to read my posts carefully. If I get a call that says a "flash mob" is down the street, I'll grab the camera and head off to the scene to film a piece for the local TV news. That's my job.
I will respond in a COMPLETELY different manner to a call that a "flash riot" is in progress at that same spot. I'd still grab my camera but I'd also wear my vest and carry gun. Just like I did in the sandbox.
Viper, I've been involved in approximately 30 violent protests as a cameraman. From WTO in Seattle to Jerusalem to Baghdad and there are two consistent variables, the authority forces (police) and the organized protest groups (ELF, etc.) At WTO, I just tried to make it through the madness to get to and from my job at Amazon, where I worked back then. The police were overwhelmed by the sheer numbers and poor communication from superiors. Also, the SPD hadn't seen unrest like this before, with targeted violence and organized mayhem. This is a textbook example of an unprepared police force. Poor intel prior to the event left them blind.
In the sandbox, I'd see a different type of riot. Protesters weren't asking for better wages or more vacation. These were hungry people with no electricity, no water and little hope for reprieve anytime soon. On the other side, a police force that was indoctrinated under Saddam to crush ANY protest. This is an example of a VERY dangerous protest. Gunfire was a common dispersement device.
I mention these examples to try to illustrate the warning signs, if you ever find yourself caught in one. Try to make your way out to the edge before the police cordon off the area. It's always harder to leave the area after the exclusion zone is in place. If you're trapped inside the zone, try to get out through the shops and apartments. In London '09, I was in the zone at Bank and I was only able to leave through a Starbuck's filled with cops, because I had a press pass. There's always an intitiating incident. An over-reaction by one side or the other, usually exacerbated by the heat. For some reason it's always hot at a riot.
Another good example, not from my own personal experience, but from recollection of a story told by a good friend of mine. Koringal Valley. The local populace, not Taliban or Al Queda, drove us out. They did not want our help, so we gave it back for fear of being overrun.
I absolutely agree with what you're saying. Typically, you're going to be on the receiving end, and you're already going to be behind the power curve. 95% of engagements are going to leave you wondering what the hell just happened.
Look at the tactics that insurgents are using. They will hide and wait for a patrol to set off a pressure plate IED, then as soon as the boom goes off, L-shaped ambush from PKM and RPK fire. It happens every day.
With what you were saying about exclusion zones, and applying that to a gun fight, the guy that is hunkered down has limited avenues of travel or escape. Use the resources available, call the cops to help deal with the threat, and keep the guy pinned down until bigger guns show up if it's one of these "sacred cow" scenarios.
In a home defense situation, you have home field advantage, push the guy into a corner he can't get out of without running through a shit storm.
Rapper arrested in Ohio after organizing flash mob
Gee, I wonder. . .
Whatever could his message be? :rolleyes:
Whatever the message is; white-trash* kids are now angry too. Nothing disgusts me more than white kids who sag their pants and sing rap music.
*For all the liberal progressives trolling on this thread; I can say white trash because I am white. I also reserve the right to say corn bread, wonder bread, trailer trash, hillbilly, whitey, white boy, and honky. :blink:
Moose-Knuckle
08-22-11, 05:27
C'mon Moose, tone down the font a little bit. As I said earlier, I'm not going to respond if you can't take the time to read my posts carefully.
Doc, you are the one who has taken issue with your own professions nomenclature.
If I get a call that says a "flash mob" is down the street, I'll grab the camera and head off to the scene to film a piece for the local TV news. That's my job.
I will respond in a COMPLETELY different manner to a call that a "flash riot" is in progress at that same spot. I'd still grab my camera but I'd also wear my vest and carry gun. Just like I did in the sandbox.
That’s fascinating, so then why all the fuss about the media's terminology? Can we carry on with the original intent of this discussion or shall we continue to beat the proverbial dead horse into a fine pulp?
Moose,
Flash mob / flash riot, it doesn't matter what it is called. What does matter is what are we going to do to prepare for when we get caught in the middle of it.
Exactly. It dosen't matter, I myself do not understand Doc's thread derail of the subject.
This Flash mob/Flash riot argument is turning into the grade school Soda/Pop arguement. Who gives a shit what it is called? Does it REALLY matter that much? No. It doesn't. It doesn't negatively affect your life, so let it fly with your knees in the breeze, brother.
I'm not the one who got my panties in a bunch and made a mountain out of a mole hill.
Personally I'm sick and tired of all the asinine derails in this thread over words like; black or mob, et al. . .ad nauseum.
viperashes
08-22-11, 05:49
Doc and Moose,
I'm not sure how this little spat between you started, but both of you should shake hands, agree to disagree, and carry on.
It seems you two are getting mighty spun up over something that really doesn't mean jack squat to the grand scheme of things, nor does it add to or subtract from the thread. Call a dick a cheeseburger, it's still a dick. No matter what you call it, It's still a dick. I like calling mine a Royale with Cheese.
Flash mob, flash riot. Who cares. It's not worth getting that spun up about, and if you are, it just means you need to step away and take a breath for a second. Good debate is great, when there are good ideas getting thrown around, but this is just mindless arguing. Over something pretty dumb.
You both know you are better than to degrade to middle school playground arguments. If you need to, put each other on ignore for a while if you feel like you don't have the self-control not to respond to the other. I've had to do the same a time or two, with someone I usually get along with, but the guy pissed me off so bad that I had to just leave it alone and simmer down.
Can we get back to the topic at hand and converse like civilized men now and leave the bickering behind, please?
Moose,
Flash mob / flash riot, it doesn't matter what it is called. What does matter is what are we going to do to prepare for when we get caught in the middle of it.
This Flash mob/Flash riot argument is turning into the grade school Soda/Pop arguement. Who gives a shit what it is called? Does it REALLY matter that much? No. It doesn't. It doesn't negatively affect your life, so let it fly with your knees in the breeze, brother.
I'm not trying to be the hippy-liberal-everybody get along-guy here, but the bigger question here is what we can do to protect ourselves from getting caught up in the middle of one of these flash zombie attacks (there, middle ground, compromise).
These cretins are screwing up our country about as fast as our politicians are spending money that we don't have. And they're getting bigger, and more frequent. The fact is, we as a society, and as a community, have to figure out a way to curb some of this crap before it does come to the point where people are getting killed and/or weapons are involved.
I know how to curb it...precise application of force. If you have a few well-documented cases of co-ordinated response by people with concealed carry backing each other up when these flash mobs come through trying to steal stuff, snatch purses, beat people up, etc. you'll deter them from trying it.
viperashes
08-22-11, 12:22
I know how to curb it...precise application of force. If you have a few well-documented cases of co-ordinated response by people with concealed carry backing each other up when these flash mobs come through trying to steal stuff, snatch purses, beat people up, etc. you'll deter them from trying it.
That's actually in line with what I was thinking as well. I have done some training, not only .Mil side, but with good friends that are safe shooters doing 2-man weapons malfunction drills and having the other guy cover your target while you reload or clear a simulated malfunction. It's pretty easy to practice for and makes more sense than a NY reload.
I admit that I may be a bit OCD about terminology. However, that being said, imprecise words lead to misunderstandings, as we have here. I can get defensive, just like anyone else can, when directly quoted and questioned. For that I apologize.
I DO take exception to calling this a derailment. In an emergency situation, where will everyone turn to for information first? TV and Radio news. Defining the terms that you'll hear on emergency news reports is critical. If you don't know the nomenclature, you'll be under-informed.
Good call on the partner drills, viper. I'm going to start doing them. I get concerned when, as a civilian, I have to think twice about drawing my weapon in a crowd of protesters. I REALLY don't want to be mis-identified and shot by police when I'm trying to protect myself.
I assume this is still about flash mobs?
No doubt this would be effective if you happen to be with that person when the flash mob occurs. But due to the randomness and suddeness with which they can crop up I'm not sure I'd count on that.
We had a small one (maybe 30 or so "kids") occur at a local mall a while back. They weren't looting anything but randomly thumping on mall patrons. This was just a few hours after I'd been there with my kids. Had I been there my first priority would be getting the kids to safety. Same mall had a shootout between the crips and bloods a couple years back.
I don't know - might be that it get's to the point you have to train with a shopping partner...or shop with a training partner :p
Most of my friends are conservative, gun-toting, highly prepared types. Though I do most of my shopping for non-food items online or at Tractor Supply, Lowe's, gun shops, etc. (places you don't generally have flash mobs), when I do shop, I'm often around these people. Many of these people are older than me and have kids who think of me as a young uncle/cool family friend because I take them shooting, hiking, etc. so often they want me to come with them back-to-school shopping and such. Pretty much whenever I go to the "mall" I'm with at least two other gun-toting adults who are very protective of their kids (though these kids could handle themselves in a fight, I'm quite sure), and those gun-toting adults are adults I train with frequently. I guess that's not everyone's situation, but if a flash mob happened while me and a few close friends were at the mall, it might end badly for the purse-snatching punks.
Situational Awareness. Stay calm, eyes open, head on a swivel.
That's the way to get out of a riot. This is where the Get-Home-Bag comes into play. The only engagement I would make in a crowd is a direct threat to me or the people I'm with. Holstered is the best place for a gun because there is no threat ID. I don't know which direction the threat comes from, who it is or if I've been mis-identified by police. If I'm walking through an unruly mob with a drawn pistol, even to protect myself, I'm an instant target for a police sniper. Not my idea of a good day.
That's actually in line with what I was thinking as well. I have done some training, not only .Mil side, but with good friends that are safe shooters doing 2-man weapons malfunction drills and having the other guy cover your target while you reload or clear a simulated malfunction. It's pretty easy to practice for and makes more sense than a NY reload.
I assume this is still about flash mobs?
No doubt this would be effective if you happen to be with that person when the flash mob occurs. But due to the randomness and suddeness with which they can crop up I'm not sure I'd count on that.
We had a small one (maybe 30 or so "kids") occur at a local mall a while back. They weren't looting anything but randomly thumping on mall patrons. This was just a few hours after I'd been there with my kids. Had I been there my first priority would be getting the kids to safety. Same mall had a shootout between the crips and bloods a couple years back.
I don't know - might be that it get's to the point you have to train with a shopping partner...or shop with a training partner :p
viperashes
08-22-11, 17:24
I assume this is still about flash mobs?
No doubt this would be effective if you happen to be with that person when the flash mob occurs. But due to the randomness and suddeness with which they can crop up I'm not sure I'd count on that.
We had a small one (maybe 30 or so "kids") occur at a local mall a while back. They weren't looting anything but randomly thumping on mall patrons. This was just a few hours after I'd been there with my kids. Had I been there my first priority would be getting the kids to safety. Same mall had a shootout between the crips and bloods a couple years back.
I don't know - might be that it get's to the point you have to train with a shopping partner...or shop with a training partner :p
That last part cracked me up. :p The comment was somewhat in general, but yes absolutely, take your shopping partner training (i.e. your wife, girlfriend, s/o) because being proficient in the employment of your own with your handgun makes you a shooter, being proficient in the employment of another shooter makes you a tactician.
When you train to muscle memory with another person, you get to know their reactionary times and responses. What they're going to do and when. We did this with SRT, and we do it with our Dogs on K9. I know how my dog or the members of my team are going to react in certain situations. Not just our "battle plan" but when shit hits the fan and the plan falls apart, I know the first thought that's going to pop through each guy's head.
In a situation like a flash mob/riot/whatever, you are already going to be behind the power curve, because you probably won't see it coming. Having another trained set of eyes with the ability to defensively engage is going to at minimum, double your chances of getting out of a situation.
How do these latest flash mob attacks unfold? In "normal" rioting there is usually some triggering event and a mob slowly forms (comparatively) and it starts with yelling and threats and then someone throws a brick at the violence escalates. You have warning signs to get the hell out of there, and they probably occur in impoverished areas or the banking center, etc.
These flash mobs though seem to be coordinated ahead of time, a group of 20-300 make their way to the target site and on a signal they run through the area either stealing, punching people or whatever. Is this correct? Is there any warning behavior? If someone resists or fights back do they tend to coalesce and attack that person (assuming NOT a firearm defense but just fists)? Can you back off the main street or mall aisle and they sweep past or are they chasing down people trying to get away?
Finally, it seems that flash mob attacks are happening in depressed urban centers, except for the WI State Fair. Is this correct. or have they happened at suburban malls or smaller "not so bad off" cities? I am specifically wondering about the Portland, OR area if that fits the location profile, or are they spreading to unpredictable areas yet?
As the economy worsens I can imagine it spreading a LOT.
As to the comment of "shopping with your training partner," it is like sudden bear attacks. If you read hundreds of accounts it is apparent that if a person was with at least one other person they have many times better chance of survival. Admittedly, usually there is only one bear and it can only attack one person at a time, so the situation is not totally analogous to a mob attack.
BUT, with one or more buddies there is a good chance one of you can react while the other "keeps them busy", and one may be in better condition afterward to give aid and get help.
How do these latest flash mob attacks unfold? In "normal" rioting there is usually some triggering event and a mob slowly forms (comparatively) and it starts with yelling and threats and then someone throws a brick at the violence escalates. You have warning signs to get the hell out of there, and they probably occur in impoverished areas or the banking center, etc.
These flash mobs though seem to be coordinated ahead of time, a group of 20-300 make their way to the target site and on a signal they run through the area either stealing, punching people or whatever. Is this correct? Is there any warning behavior? If someone resists or fights back do they tend to coalesce and attack that person (assuming NOT a firearm defense but just fists)? Can you back off the main street or mall aisle and they sweep past or are they chasing down people trying to get away?
Finally, it seems that flash mob attacks are happening in depressed urban centers, except for the WI State Fair. Is this correct. or have they happened at suburban malls or smaller "not so bad off" cities? I am specifically wondering about the Portland, OR area if that fits the location profile, or are they spreading to unpredictable areas yet?
Absolutely right but you're describing two different scenarios here. in the "normal" rioting, you are correct. There is usually an inciting incident. Like a protester hits a cop or vice-versa and everything kicks off. I learned a long time ago to carry a wash down kit in my camera bag. Mineral Oil neutralizes the burning on the skin. Pure saline eye wash and extra contacts. Baby wipes to clean my hands because EVERYTHING is covered in riot agent. Clean water, bandanna and a mask when I'm in a really bad spot.
The really disturbing trend, like WTO, is a hijacking of a legitimate protest march. That's where the groups of 20-300 you mention enter the event with the specific intention of engaging the authorities. In my opinion, this is the most dangerous situation because of the unpredictable response of (1) the authorities and (2) the legit protesters caught in the middle, de-legitimizing their message.
The attack at the WI Fair is a classic example of the old school term, "wilding." A purely criminal element motivated to engage any and all in their path. Fairly simple to avoid if you're aware of your surroundings. They come in loud and you can see them attacking others on the way to you.
Some friends of mine were caught in the Seattle WTO riots. While the rioting took place downtown and the police stood back and watched businesses being trashed, my friends had been out on the town having dinner on Capitol Hill not aware of what was happening over there. Walking home they suddenly found the police attacking any and everyone on the street and according to them there were not many protesters at their location and time. they are still confused why the police were so aggressive on that street and so passive where the damage was running rampant.
So even if you think you are away from the disturbance, like you said, you never know if you will get caught up in police or protester/anarchistic action (or hoodlums masquerading as them).
Link to story on 1 million dollar robbery
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/hollywood/fl-hollywood-jewelers-robbery-20110824,0,5598192.story
There is another thread on here that brought up a good point about the next catastrophic natural disaster. It had me thinking of the two major ones that would hit without warning and disable 1/4 - 1/3 of the US in one blow. The New Madrid Seismic Zone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Madrid_Seismic_Zone) and the Yellowstond Caldera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_Caldera) (which seems to have become more active in recent years). Then there is obviously the San Andreas fault line that would be bad, but I'm not sure if it would effect as many states as the other two. Then of course there are other things such as solar flares as well.
If either of these two happen, you can imagine the chain of events that would occur resulting in the collapse (or at least major hit) on our economy leading to what this thread is all about, Mass Civil Disobedience. I only bring this up because untill the quakes in VA and CO, I never thought too much about a natural disaster actually causing an economic collapse vs one that occurs due to gov ineptness. Apparently, all the seismic activity that has been occuring lately could trigger one of these two to go, so its something to keep in mind.
Obviously its not something that you will see coming, but I would say that now is as good a time as any to make sure you have things in order and be as prepared as possible. There are so many things that could set "it" off that it can make your head spin.
Moose-Knuckle
08-25-11, 04:16
There is another thread on here that brought up a good point about the next catastrophic natural disaster. It had me thinking of the two major ones that would hit without warning and disable 1/4 - 1/3 of the US in one blow. The New Madrid Seismic Zone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Madrid_Seismic_Zone) and the Yellowstond Caldera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowstone_Caldera) (which seems to have become more active in recent years). Then there is obviously the San Andreas fault line that would be bad, but I'm not sure if it would effect as many states as the other two. Then of course there are other things such as solar flares as well.
If either of these two happen, you can imagine the chain of events that would occur resulting in the collapse (or at least major hit) on our economy leading to what this thread is all about, Mass Civil Disobedience. I only bring this up because untill the quakes in VA and CO, I never thought too much about a natural disaster actually causing an economic collapse vs one that occurs due to gov ineptness. Apparently, all the seismic activity that has been occuring lately could trigger one of these two to go, so its something to keep in mind.
Obviously its not something that you will see coming, but I would say that now is as good a time as any to make sure you have things in order and be as prepared as possible. There are so many things that could set "it" off that it can make your head spin.
I'm glad to see others tracking like this. With the advent of Scalar Electromagnetics and the like "natural disasters" can be wielded at will. Make note of all the flocks of birds that dropped DEAD RIGHT THERE while in mid flight. This is a clue. ;)
DoD News Briefing; Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen Monday, April 28, 1997 - 8:45 a.m. EDT:
[...]
Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith.
A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.
So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real.
A "terrorists attack", a new pandemic, collapse of the economy, and a "natural disaster" would absolutely bring about TEOTWAWKI in a one two punch.
QuietShootr
08-25-11, 07:25
I'm glad to see others tracking like this. With the advent of Scalar Electromagnetics and the like "natural disasters" can be wielded at will. Make note of all the flocks of birds that dropped DEAD RIGHT THERE while in mid flight. This is a clue. ;)
A "terrorists attack", a new pandemic, collapse of the economy, and a "natural disaster" would absolutely bring about TEOTWAWKI in a one two punch.
And something we should all do well to remember:
Just because YOU haven't seen something, or can't imagine how it would work, or even believe it's possible - does NOT mean it doesn't exist.
Rapper arrested in Ohio after organizing flash mob
http://news.yahoo.com/rapper-arrested-ohio-organizing-flash-mob-133410240.html
Gee, I wonder. . .
Whatever could his message be? :rolleyes:
MGK is a ****ing idiot. He grew up rough but not in Watts (CA), Camden (NJ), Compton (CA), Gary (IN), Elizabeth (NJ), etc. It's Cleveland, Ohio buddy...you're not hard.
Situational Awareness. Stay calm, eyes open, head on a swivel.
That's the way to get out of a riot.
Not to split hairs again :moil: but staying the hell out of a riot in the first place would be my choice. Avoiding the area, and if something wild starts to develop, get out.
Been on vacation for a week with zero internet... Sometimes a blessing and sometimes a curse.
Hurricane Irene is bound to cause the eastern seaboard, NYC and the surrounding areas some major fuel for some zombie uprisings. The news should be quite interesting in the days to come.
Video interview of Ron Paul, mobs in Europe a sign of things to come. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/08/24/ron_paul_mobs_in_europe_a_sign_of_things_coming.html
"There’s going to be an inflation tax to hit us and I am just afraid there will be people in the streets when they don’t get what they want," Paul told the FOX Business Network.
MGK is a ****ing idiot. He grew up rough but not in Watts (CA), Camden (NJ), Compton (CA), Gary (IN), Elizabeth (NJ), etc. It's Cleveland, Ohio buddy...you're not hard.
When I was in high school I saw plenty of these types, kids from middle-class families (or welfare-teat-suckling homes) who thought that because they were poor, they were, and I quote, "thuggin' G's".
I'm quite sure, bud. So which inner-city suburb coughed you up, huh? Wait, what was that? Oh yeah, you lived in a town of ten thousand, a fraction of the size of Boston. Good job, you listen to rap music. You smoke pot. You're going nowhere in life. Want a prize? Form your little gang with your "homies" and try some petty crime. Hey, if you don't all get shot full of holes like a block of swiss cheese when you go out in the sticks to burglarize homes, you can scrounge up enough money to hop on a bus to Boston and be found the next morning by police, blubbering and penniless. Your one saving grace? After the first mugger beats you senseless and takes your money and belongings, you'll start screaming like a baby, so they'll leave you alone after that, because what kind of mugger carries ear pro on the job?
Anyway...now that I've spouted off about the punks who keyed my first car and slashed my tires twice during my formative years :mad:, back on topic.
RogerinTPA
08-25-11, 18:26
MGK is a ****ing idiot. He grew up rough but not in Watts (CA), Camden (NJ), Compton (CA), Gary (IN), Elizabeth (NJ), etc. It's Cleveland, Ohio buddy...you're not hard.
Or Detroit for that matter. I drove through Cleveland last May and people were still sporting Afros, bell bottoms and platform shoes for Christ sake! Spot on with your statement...I had to LMAO.:p
Not to split hairs again :moil: but staying the hell out of a riot in the first place would be my choice. Avoiding the area, and if something wild starts to develop, get out.
Agreed.
Doc Maker- Situational Awareness. Stay calm, eyes open, head on a swivel. That's the way to get out of a riot.
Not to split hairs again :moil: but staying the hell out of a riot in the first place would be my choice. Avoiding the area, and if something wild starts to develop, get out.
That's obvious... but you and Roger aren't tracking the whole conversation. If you'd read the last couple of pages, we were discussing what happens if you're caught in a flash riot/mob. Signals, indicators, exits, etc.
These events kick off very fast and you don't always get a choice to be someplace safe. If you're out one day and you're not aware that there's a trade union strike two blocks over, you could end up inside a police exclusion zone. Trapped until it's lifted.
Those of you in the path of Irene should be aware of police actions during the storm. Get a handheld scanner and listen to your local LEO chatter. Keep track of road closures, flooding, damaged areas and evacuation notices. You'll also be able to track Emergency Services. If the EMT/Fire units are all deployed, consider yourself officially "on your own."
If you were in a location that shook the other day, watch your utility connections. The quake may have initiated fractures in the sewer and water lines. You don't get a lot of seismic activity and they may not be to the same spec as West coast systems. Heavy rains could cause a complete break down and initiate flooding in lower areas. Fill your bathtubs with water and keep a bucket there, so you can flush your toilets.
That's obvious... but you and Roger aren't tracking the whole conversation. If you'd read the last couple of pages, we were discussing what happens if you're caught in a flash riot/mob. Signals, indicators, exits, etc.
Right I get that...obvious hand't been stated though, so I figured I'd just put it out there. I usually stay far from crowds anyway. Ex - I'd rather just tailgate through a game vs crowd into a stadium for it.
Came across this disturbing video today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOo9bjLtL3Q&feature=player_embedded
While the video rings up some good op sec issues, I think it giving too much credit to any marauding and/gangs. I don't think most thugs are going to be so patient to carefully recon and track down prepared folks. I think they will be more opportunistic and keep rolling through hitting easy targets.
Just a Jarhead
08-27-11, 05:27
While the video rings up some good op sec issues, I think it giving too much credit to any marauding and/gangs. I don't think most thugs are going to be so patient to carefully recon and track down prepared folks. I think they will be more opportunistic and keep rolling through hitting easy targets.
Not just thugs NW. Question for you ......How many on m4c boards alone do you think have next to 0 preps? Besides weapons and ammo that is.
There would be several waves. The first of those who hadn't done any prepping, the one's that think all this prepping stuff is "retarded" as we've heard, yet they're armed. Some very well trained. And many who maybe don't think we're quite nuts, who think that there may even be some validity to our concerns. But for whatever reason they haven't quite done anything about it.
The next wave will be those who had some preps but not enough. Maybe a months worth or maybe more but not enough. No seeds or contigencies for long term. A lot of them are "us" types. Well armed, well equipped with comm's, well trained in many instances.
No one is going to lay down and starve to death.
ETA: what worries me the most about thugs is their inate ability to gang together in large groups. Overwhelming numbers! Hell it's hard enough for us serious preppers to put together a group of 3-5 like minded men. And then their sheer ruthlessnes. These guys are soulless. Look at the Mexican drug wars not far from us now. Beheadings, capturing busses and making the men fight to death like gladiators for sport etc etc. Sheer ruthlessness. Keep in mind many of these Mexican thugs are former Mexican Special OPS types trained by us that turned to the dark side. This is what we'll see here IF shtf. They'll be a huge threat no doubt. And people think we're "retarded". Insane or what. So friggin clueless they are it's pathetic & laughable at the same time. They're to be pitied in their staunch denial & lack of foresight & wisdom. They don't have to look far to find the kind of chaos we could be anticpating.
But from the perspective of that interesting youtube video, it's the former military guy who will be the intel gatherer. And there will be some unusual banding together of various characters no doubt out of necessity. Just as in the Mexican druggies.
Came across this disturbing video today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOo9bjLtL3Q&feature=player_embedded
This is the exact reason my...allies train heavily in small unit tactics and have plans to harden our homes. We're also investing in night vision, and potentially (down the road) thermal optics. Thankfully, we control the height of land here for several miles in all directions, and there are enough of us that any group that attempts such an attack may find us a difficult target.
Just a Jarhead
08-27-11, 06:23
This is the exact reason my...allies train heavily in small unit tactics and have plans to harden our homes. We're also investing in night vision, and potentially (down the road) thermal optics. Thankfully, we control the height of land here for several miles in all directions, and there are enough of us that any group that attempts such an attack may find us a difficult target.
I so freaken wish I could afford night vision. I see it as such a vital piece of equipment. I don't see $3000 available for it in the near future. I'll end up in divorce court.
QuietShootr
08-27-11, 08:33
Not just thugs NW. Question for you ......How many on m4c boards alone do you think have next to 0 preps? Besides weapons and ammo that is.
There would be several waves. The first of those who hadn't done any prepping, the one's that think all this prepping stuff is "retarded" as we've heard, yet they're armed. Some very well trained. And many who maybe don't think we're quite nuts, who think that there may even be some validity to our concerns. But for whatever reason they haven't quite done anything about it.
The next wave will be those who had some preps but not enough. Maybe a months worth or maybe more but not enough. No seeds or contigencies for long term. A lot of them are "us" types. Well armed, well equipped with comm's, well trained in many instances.
No one is going to lay down and starve to death.
ETA: what worries me the most about thugs is their inate ability to gang together in large groups. Overwhelming numbers! Hell it's hard enough for us serious preppers to put together a group of 3-5 like minded men. And then their sheer ruthlessnes. These guys are soulless. Look at the Mexican drug wars not far from us now. Beheadings, capturing busses and making the men fight to death like gladiators for sport etc etc. Sheer ruthlessness. Keep in mind many of these Mexican thugs are former Mexican Special OPS types trained by us that turned to the dark side. This is what we'll see here IF shtf. They'll be a huge threat no doubt. And people think we're "retarded". Insane or what. So friggin clueless they are it's pathetic & laughable at the same time. They're to be pitied in their staunch denial & lack of foresight & wisdom. They don't have to look far to find the kind of chaos we could be anticpating.
But from the perspective of that interesting youtube video, it's the former military guy who will be the intel gatherer. And there will be some unusual banding together of various characters no doubt out of necessity. Just as in the Mexican druggies.
It's kind of sad that there probably won't be much internet when this shit really gets into full swing...that will deprive me of the chance to come back and say "Told ya so".
Oh, well... you fellas that think this shit is 'retarded', when you're bleeding out, just remember some of us retards are warm and safe and well fed behind armor and heavy weapons:cool:
Enjoy that Wave Runner you just had to have. Maybe someone will trade you a bag of rice for it just for the engine.
I so freaken wish I could afford night vision. I see it as such a vital piece of equipment. I don't see $3000 available for it in the near future. I'll end up in divorce court.
Jarhead, take a look at this: http://swfa.com/Yukon-25x50-Tactical-Internal-Focus-NightVision-Rifle-Scope-P40213.aspx.
A friend of mine bought one of these last year. I was skeptical about it but after fondling it a few times & it's pretty impressive. I assumed it would be foggy & distorted, but it was amizingly clear. It has 2 focus adjustments which make images very crisp. I was able to distinguish a cat from a raccoon at approx 50 yards. Even compared to more expensive NV, I couldn't see enough difference to justify $3k, however I'm no NV expert. For $600 it's better to have one of these than to not have anything IMO.
While the video rings up some good op sec issues, I think it giving too much credit to any marauding and/gangs. I don't think most thugs are going to be so patient to carefully recon and track down prepared folks. I think they will be more opportunistic and keep rolling through hitting easy targets.
Not all the bad guys are going to be a dumb as they look. They're not all going to be saggy, baggy, sideways hat, dorks strutting down the street like a puffed up rooster. Criminals can be intelligent & creative as well. By the time the easy targets have been exhausted, the crooks will have had some experience in this field and only getting more proficient as they move on. All it takes is one guy with experience & leadership skills to turn a group of average thugs into a serious threat.
I've met a few professional criminals in my life that were absolutely brilliant. It's a shame their minds were not used for good.
Jarhead, take a look at this: http://swfa.com/Yukon-25x50-Tactical-Internal-Focus-NightVision-Rifle-Scope-P40213.aspx.
A friend of mine bought one of these last year. I was skeptical about it but after fondling it a few times & it's pretty impressive. I assumed it would be foggy & distorted, but it was amizingly clear. It has 2 focus adjustments which make images very crisp. I was able to distinguish a cat from a raccoon at approx 50 yards. Even compared to more expensive NV, I couldn't see enough difference to justify $3k, however I'm no NV expert. For $600 it's better to have one of these than to not have anything IMO.
The difference wouldn't be outdoors, but when you are indoors with little to no ambient light. Also, the difference would be in the mounting options and adaptability with other gear. This could make a decent "sentry NV unit" depending on the identification range. What range would you say you could see through those and pick up details such as a gun in someone's hand?
The difference wouldn't be outdoors, but when you are indoors with little to no ambient light. Also, the difference would be in the mounting options and adaptability with other gear. This could make a decent "sentry NV unit" depending on the identification range. What range would you say you could see through those and pick up details such as a gun in someone's hand?
It has an illuminator for low/no light purposes. I'd say you could ID a guy with a rifle at 100 yards without much difficulty. For mounting, it's designed to clamp onto a picatinny rail.
Like I mentioned I'm no NV expert by any means. But seeing 100, 50, or 25 yards is better than not seeing anything at all until it's right on top of you. My point is if expensive NV is not an option due to finances, this is better than nothing.
My point is if expensive NV is not an option due to finances, this is better than nothing.
I absolutely agree with you and thanks for posting that link. Better to have a slingshot than nothing at all.
It has an illuminator for low/no light purposes. I'd say you could ID a guy with a rifle at 100 yards without much difficulty. For mounting, it's designed to clamp onto a picatinny rail.
Like I mentioned I'm no NV expert by any means. But seeing 100, 50, or 25 yards is better than not seeing anything at all until it's right on top of you. My point is if expensive NV is not an option due to finances, this is better than nothing.
Completely agree...I am saving for a PVS14, but this may be another option to have on hand as well.
TX Rancher
08-27-11, 12:36
I would suggest staying away from Gen 1 gear. I run a hog control operation and we currently use Gen 2 & 3 gear. I tried Gen 1 once and learned my lesson.
It's a lot like buying an AR...do you want a DPMS or a BCM? Gen 1 is somewhere below DPMS on the scale.
For a few more dollars you can get a good quality Gen 2 optic that will perform much better...you don't have to go all the way to Gen 3...Gen 2 with a quality illuminator works pretty good.
Don't overlook the digital night scopes. Some of them are pretty close to Gen 2 quality.
Just a Jarhead
08-27-11, 13:10
For a few more dollars you can get a good quality Gen 2 optic that will perform much better...you don't have to go all the way to Gen 3...Gen 2 with a quality illuminator works pretty good.
Don't overlook the digital night scopes. Some of them are pretty close to Gen 2 quality.
Welcome TX Rancherl! Any recommendations are much appreciated.
I would suggest staying away from Gen 1 gear. I run a hog control operation and we currently use Gen 2 & 3 gear. I tried Gen 1 once and learned my lesson.
It's a lot like buying an AR...do you want a DPMS or a BCM? Gen 1 is somewhere below DPMS on the scale.
For a few more dollars you can get a good quality Gen 2 optic that will perform much better...you don't have to go all the way to Gen 3...Gen 2 with a quality illuminator works pretty good.
Don't overlook the digital night scopes. Some of them are pretty close to Gen 2 quality.
Not to disagree with you, because I know little about the subject, but another friend of mine has an ATN gen2 NV scope. He paid somewhere around $2k for it. The Yukon I linked is rated gen1.5 (so I've been told). Apperently newer gen1 NV is much better than the old stuff due to advancements in technology used to make it these days. Comparing the clarity of my friends 1 year old Yukon vs my other friends 5 year old ATN, the Yukon comes out on top. Another feature I like about the Yukon is that it takes AA batteries which are rechargable & there are inexpensive solar chargers available for AA batteries. From my research, CR123's are not rechargeable. Form what I've seen, a true gen2 would cost double the Yukon I linked which may be a dealbreaker for someone on a tight budget.
Just a Jarhead
08-27-11, 15:58
Not to disagree with you, because I know little about the subject, but another friend of mine has an ATN gen2 NV scope. He paid somewhere around $2k for it. The Yukon I linked is rated gen1.5 (so I've been told). Apperently newer gen1 NV is much better than the old stuff due to advancements in technology used to make it these days. Comparing the clarity of my friends 1 year old Yukon vs my other friends 5 year old ATN, the Yukon comes out on top. Another feature I like about the Yukon is that it takes AA batteries which are rechargable & there are inexpensive solar chargers available for AA batteries. From my research, CR123's are not rechargeable. Form what I've seen, a true gen2 would cost double the Yukon I linked which may be a dealbreaker for someone on a tight budget.
Interesting! I'll have to look into these further. Thanks. They're definitely more inline with budgetary constraints on "supplies"
I found this explanation of the different generations on ATN's website. About halfway down they have a sample of the image generated from each generation. Not that this is set in concrete as I'm sure varying degrees in quality of materials from manufacturer to manufacturer can make a difference.
http://www.atncorp.com/hownightvisionworks
This guy can build you an good one for a nice price. He can do everything from high end to budget NV. 20 years USMC, very smart kat...
Peter: pvs14builder@yahoo.com
Here is a good thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=80329) regarding NODs. For your research, click the first link in post #9 by Motoduck. The link shows some comparisons between Gen1/2/3 NODs done by TNVC. I don't have much experience with NODs, but I trust TNVC to put out accurate info. This info, along with other factors, is why I will be saving for some 14's...but I do also see where the cheaper NODs can play a role as well.
Here is a good thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=80329) regarding NODs. For your research, click the first link in post #9 by Motoduck. The link shows some comparisons between Gen1/2/3 NODs done by TNVC. I don't have much experience with NODs, but I trust TNVC to put out accurate info. This info, along with other factors, is why I will be saving for some 14's...but I do also see where the cheaper NODs can play a role as well.
I checked out those links you posted. Very cool. On the comparison link, the bottom of the page shows total dark images with or without the illuminator on. Maybe it's broken because my friends gen1, looks like what they show for gen2 or 3. With slight moonlight, you can see a person sized target with enough detail to know who it is. With the IR on, they glow like they're radioactive with great detail.
On another note, most of the other NV scopes I looked at take CR123 batteries or others which are harder to find & not rechargeable. I assume in a SHTF scenario a guy may have his illuminator on for extended periods. Battery life becomes a concern. I'm not trying to sell anyone on this particular scope, but for the price, quality & features, it's hard to beat.
The PVS-14 seems to be the solid winner, but I was reading up on the technology..are there any new options using 4th Generation technology?
I checked out those links you posted. Very cool. On the comparison link, the bottom of the page shows total dark images with or without the illuminator on. Maybe it's broken because my friends gen1, looks like what they show for gen2 or 3. With slight moonlight, you can see a person sized target with enough detail to know who it is. With the IR on, they glow like they're radioactive with great detail.
On another note, most of the other NV scopes I looked at take CR123 batteries or others which are harder to find & not rechargeable. I assume in a SHTF scenario a guy may have his illuminator on for extended periods. Battery life becomes a concern. I'm not trying to sell anyone on this particular scope, but for the price, quality & features, it's hard to beat.
The ONLY problem that I have with the illuminator is that it goes both ways much like a laser. If the "enemy" has NODs, they will see the IR illuminator and then all of a sudden you aren't so stealthy anymore. Highly unlikely that regular "Zombies" will have NODs in a time like we are talking about, but the principle still holds true. However, if I can afford it, I would like to have both. One for "night sentry duty" and one that I can have on my weapon/head mount for night fighting if need be.
The PVS-14 seems to be the solid winner, but I was reading up on the technology..are there any new options using 4th Generation technology?
I was told that there is no such thing. Only Gen 3. "Gen 3+" is just a marketing ploy.
TX Rancher
08-27-11, 18:32
Not to disagree with you, because I know little about the subject, but another friend of mine has an ATN gen2 NV scope. He paid somewhere around $2k for it. The Yukon I linked is rated gen1.5 (so I've been told). Apperently newer gen1 NV is much better than the old stuff due to advancements in technology used to make it these days. Comparing the clarity of my friends 1 year old Yukon vs my other friends 5 year old ATN, the Yukon comes out on top. Another feature I like about the Yukon is that it takes AA batteries which are rechargable & there are inexpensive solar chargers available for AA batteries. From my research, CR123's are not rechargeable. Form what I've seen, a true gen2 would cost double the Yukon I linked which may be a dealbreaker for someone on a tight budget.
Keep in mind ATN is held in rather low regard in the NV area. Their gear is generally accepted as very low quality and to put it bluntly, they are very misleading in their advertisement...ask me how I know (my first scope was an ATN, Gen 2 by the way).
As you stated, being able to use AA batteries is certainly a plus.
Also, as another poster stated, Gen 1 is better than nothing at all...hard to disagree with that statement!
But Gen 1 will require an illuminator long before Gen 2 or 3 will, and if you are trying to stay hidden that's a problem (the red glow of standard illuminators is very visible at night). Recognition range will be reduced and Gen 1 can be very hard on batteries and discharge them fast.
But again, if it suits your purpose, it's hard to argue with the cost.
The ONLY problem that I have with the illuminator is that it goes both ways much like a laser. If the "enemy" has NODs, they will see the IR illuminator and then all of a sudden you aren't so stealthy anymore. Highly unlikely that regular "Zombies" will have NODs in a time like we are talking about, but the principle still holds true. However, if I can afford it, I would like to have both. One for "night sentry duty" and one that I can have on my weapon/head mount for night fighting if need be.
I agree. They could see the slight red haze from the illuminator. My thinking is that unless it's pitch black outside, without the IR on, you can make out a person. This gives you time to get your stick pointed in that direction. Then hit your IR & know who it is before you take the next step. This seems like it would work. On the other hand as soon as I hit the IR, I may be turned into hamburger. :D
TX Rancher
08-27-11, 18:38
Here is a good thread (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=80329) regarding NODs. For your research, click the first link in post #9 by Motoduck. The link shows some comparisons between Gen1/2/3 NODs done by TNVC. I don't have much experience with NODs, but I trust TNVC to put out accurate info. This info, along with other factors, is why I will be saving for some 14's...but I do also see where the cheaper NODs can play a role as well.
TNVC is one of the more respected suppliers in the industry. I know several buyers who work with TNVC and are very happy with them. All my Gen 3 gear has come from them.
Be careful when looking on some of the sales sights when they show shots taken from their gear. Some of them, including ATN, doctor daytime shots to look like night. NV is truly a buyer beware area:smile:
Keep in mind ATN is held in rather low regard in the NV area. Their gear is generally accepted as very low quality and to put it bluntly, they are very misleading in their advertisement...ask me how I know (my first scope was an ATN, Gen 2 by the way).
As you stated, being able to use AA batteries is certainly a plus.
Also, as another poster stated, Gen 1 is better than nothing at all...hard to disagree with that statement!
But Gen 1 will require an illuminator long before Gen 2 or 3 will, and if you are trying to stay hidden that's a problem (the red glow of standard illuminators is very visible at night). Recognition range will be reduced and Gen 1 can be very hard on batteries and discharge them fast.
But again, if it suits your purpose, it's hard to argue with the cost.
All good points friend.
The way I see it, I know what Gen1 looks like & I'm pretty satisfied with it for my area. I don't want to spoil myself with the good stuff because then I'll have to buy it. I know this sounds retarded.
It's would be like sleeping with Jennifer Aniston and then having to go back to plain old barflys. I don't want to taint my low standards. :lol:
TX Rancher
08-27-11, 18:45
I was told that there is no such thing. Only Gen 3. "Gen 3+" is just a marketing ploy.
Correct, there is no such thing as Gen 4 officially. Gen 3 auto gated was presented to the military as a Gen 4 possible, but the military rejected it stating it was a good improvement, but not enough to justify a Gen rating. But Gen 3 AG really is visibly better then Gen 3...it also cost a lot more though:D
If any of you live in the Central Texas area you are welcome to drop by and look through Gen 2, Gen 3, and Gen 3AG gear. As they say, seeing is believing!
VooDoo6Actual
08-28-11, 12:38
Came across this disturbing video today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOo9bjLtL3Q&feature=player_embedded
Front Sight, Press, Followthrough, Scan until the threat(s) is/are resolved.
Front Sight, Press, Followthrough, Scan until the threat(s) is/are resolved.
I hope it truly is that simple.
VooDoo6Actual
08-28-11, 14:43
I hope it truly is that simple.
LMAO !
Can't I dream it will be.....:dirol:
Of course you can dream! In my dream I'm shooting dual HK91 from the hip & every shot is a hit! :D
More fuel on the fire... http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/08/28/could-cuts-in-the-safety-net-bring-california-to-the-boiling-poi.html
RogerinTPA
08-30-11, 15:25
More fuel on the fire... http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/08/28/could-cuts-in-the-safety-net-bring-california-to-the-boiling-poi.html
Cali will be the first bankrupt state. If the fed "family" (new buzz word for government) bails them out, the entire US economy will collapse, sooner rather than later. Same for Germany. If they don't bail out Greece and Italy, and withdraw from the Euro, the Euro will tank and so will the rest of Europe.
Interesting article. Some points stood out:
As the nation’s most populous state and the world’s eighth-largest economy, California rarely does things by halves. Dreams are bigger and glossier here, and when they crash, they crash spectacularly.
The state’s finances have been in upheaval since the 2001 recession, hamstrung by partisan gridlock, tax-averse voters, and an ever-expanding prison system that devours billions of dollars in funds each year. Budget gaps have been closed by borrowing and bailing wire, as clever accounting gimmicks substitute for sober belt-tightening or painful tax hikes.
California is the epitome of promising to take care of everyone, abundantly. Even, or especially, illegal aliens. Those big dreams are crashing now as the payments come due and the demographics shift from a majority of producers to a majority of dependents. Fewer and fewer producers to pay the ever increasing bills of the dependents great dreams of comfort.
California is the bellwether state for the nation because as a country we have done the same thing at local and national levels. Every form of retirement system (govt/teacher retirement, SSA, etc) is a bankrupt ponzi scheme, or like 401Ks are based on stocks that are more and more manipulated by government policy.
I think retirement systems are the tipping point. We can endure street riots by poor rabble burning down their own buildings. But when the middle class wakes up and discovers NONE of our retirement systems will allow us to retire (bankrupt, loss of value, eroded by inflation) and we have to work until we die... That will be despair and anger on a scale not seen yet.
Came across this disturbing video today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOo9bjLtL3Q&feature=player_embedded
Interesting to say the least. Thing is, these thugs that evolve their tactics and refine them to the "perfection" talked about in the video will come up against a group that selected it's members based on their background and existing skills. They'll recon themselves right into an area with a bunch of hides full of x-mil and le. Once the SHTF the security of your ao and your people is the primary mission. Know what's out there before it ever get's close. First time you let your guard down and get complacent could end it all.
"Organized gang hits" on citizens will be a surprise at first. I agree with you, that once the word gets around of the increased lawlessness and violence, there will be lots of armed civilians setting their own ambushes for such cretins.
But, I question how organized such gangs will be. The video was obviously made by a citizen wanting to warn how gangs could organize. That is applying careful thoughtful planning in calm times to create a hypothetical worst case scenario. I think the general warning is valid that some form of this style scavenging attacks will occur in a social breakdown. but I question if they will be as organized and patient as imagined in this video.
VooDoo6Actual
08-30-11, 21:43
Interesting article. Some points stood out:
California is the epitome of promising to take care of everyone, abundantly. Even, or especially, illegal aliens. Those big dreams are crashing now as the payments come due and the demographics shift from a majority of producers to a majority of dependents. Fewer and fewer producers to pay the ever increasing bills of the dependents great dreams of comfort.
California is the bellwether state for the nation because as a country we have done the same thing at local and national levels. Every form of retirement system (govt/teacher retirement, SSA, etc) is a bankrupt ponzi scheme, or like 401Ks are based on stocks that are more and more manipulated by government policy.
I think retirement systems are the tipping point. We can endure street riots by poor rabble burning down their own buildings. But when the middle class wakes up and discovers NONE of our retirement systems will allow us to retire (bankrupt, loss of value, eroded by inflation) and we have to work until we die... That will be despair and anger on a scale not seen yet.
+1 as these are all spot on correct.
I think retirement systems are the tipping point. We can endure street riots by poor rabble burning down their own buildings. But when the middle class wakes up and discovers NONE of our retirement systems will allow us to retire (bankrupt, loss of value, eroded by inflation) and we have to work until we die... That will be despair and anger on a scale not seen yet.
Bread and circuses. So few are aware. Most don't want to accept it. It is a psychological burden to realize the country is ****ed and there will be no magical "recovery" that guarantees our comfortable retirement. Assuming the the recovery never comes, and people grow weary of being told its just around the corner, when unemployment increases, benefits are cut, and nationwide pessimism and austerity sets in - I am worried about people's reaction. Ideally they would work hard to improve and fix things, but it could be very negative.
If it wasn't for that whole religion thing, maybe I'd convert.
So the whole thing about having more than one wife hasn't convinced you yet??? :p
Bread and circuses. So few are aware. Most don't want to accept it. It is a psychological burden to realize the country is ****ed and there will be no magical "recovery" that guarantees our comfortable retirement. Assuming the the recovery never comes, and people grow weary of being told its just around the corner, when unemployment increases, benefits are cut, and nationwide pessimism and austerity sets in - I am worried about people's reaction. Ideally they would work hard to improve and fix things, but it could be very negative.
Unfortunately, I think that is exactly what the globalist elites want. They take all our money through printing/inflation, more taxes, bailouts, government "loans", etc. Then they want US to pay for it all, knowing i t is impossible. They want to corner us and burden us, and hope we won;t default and just keep slogging away under their yoke.
The only rational way out of this is complete default. Wipe the board clean and radically reorganize government to to reduce taxes to a 1/3 of what it is now and make spending to stay below revenue. Which unfortunately we will not do, until after massive turmoil and destruction.
Unfortunately, I think that is exactly what the globalist elites want. They take all our money through printing/inflation, more taxes, bailouts, government "loans", etc. Then they want US to pay for it all, knowing i t is impossible. They want to corner us and burden us, and hope we won;t default and just keep slogging away under their yoke.
The only rational way out of this is complete default. Wipe the board clean and radically reorganize government to to reduce taxes to a 1/3 of what it is now and make spending to stay below revenue. Which unfortunately we will not do, until after massive turmoil and destruction.
My thoughts run parallel to yours.
Moose sent me this link with "anarchists" threatening that class warfare is coming: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/wis-protester-predicts-class-warfare-all-you-fking-tea-party-baggers-get-ready/
I look forward to it.
With all these "tipping points" that are in play or about to be, I don't think its a matter of IF but a matter of WHEN.
Maybe some of you older guys who lived through the 60's and 70's can shed some light, but I don't know if there has ever been more uncertainty about our nation's future.
With all these "tipping points" that are in play or about to be, I don't think its a matter of IF but a matter of WHEN.
Maybe some of you older guys who lived through the 60's and 70's can shed some light, but I don't know if there has ever been more uncertainty about our nation's future.
The 70s and early 80s (lasted from 1973-1983 about) were bad with stagflation, price controls resulting in shortages, and massive unemployment. Commodity prices swinging widely up and down wiping guys out. But there was still some underlying soundness: high tech was just taking off any practically any sharp person could get into computer programming, and although Nixon and Carter were disaster, along came Reagan and restored some moderation to taxes and less regulation.
Now though is FAR worse. There will be no new booming industry because we have off-shored everything that makes money. If there is a new boom then much of it will move around the world. We have far more people dependent on government handouts and subsidies so there is no political will to solve it. I don't think we will see a real reform candidate get much of the vote for a long time to come. Real estate is still incredibly overpriced compared to wages. We have over spent on a scale never seen before and we are still at it!
We have boomed our way into massive national and personal debt: high-tech bubble, housing bubble, bail out bubble, money inflation bubble. And now none of them have made a dent and only made the underlying problem ten times worse. I see no way we pull ourselves out of this mess. It is worse than ever. The 1930s were bad, but remember the socialist programs were just starting. The Fed and enforced income tax had only been around a short time. SSA withholding was 1%. We are only now still functioning because we continue to print money and borrow at unbelievable rates. It is starting to unravel and will be picking up speed.
I tell young people starting out that no matter what career they have to consider getting some vocational trade skills as back up option for job and for DIY cost savings, start their own business of some type. And be prepared to fend for yourself independent of jobs, government, etc and be able to defend your family.
More fuel on the fire... http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/08/28/could-cuts-in-the-safety-net-bring-california-to-the-boiling-poi.html
This guy is talking about worst case. In reality 90% of the gangs will never make it to this level. Those that do will be a real threat. right now the biggest concern would be from the Los Zetas Cartel. They are already "militarized"; because WE (by WE I mean USSOF) trained most of them. Most of the higher ups are from a MIL background and have already employed these tactics in their activities. They will be a real threat because they will have greater freedom of movement and their primary source of income will dry up very fast (The drug trade will dry up very fast when people are just trying to eat). The hard core drug users will most likely die off fast because there will not be anyone to take care of them. As for the rest, they will starve or get killed tiring to steal from people to by drugs. It will be a short lived industry and that will make those that deal in it even more desperate; that means more dangerous.
Just a Jarhead
08-31-11, 03:25
With all these "tipping points" that are in play or about to be, I don't think its a matter of IF but a matter of WHEN.
Maybe some of you older guys who lived through the 60's and 70's can shed some light, but I don't know if there has ever been more uncertainty about our nation's future.
I'm 52. I remember my father buying (2)M-1 carbines when the riots in the 60's were happening. He swore the race riots were coming but I've never seen so many factors at work all at once...and globally. I remember the Vietnam protest too. Nothing like what we're seeing today. Nobody has seen anything like this Ironman. It's global and not a single issue like Vietnam or human rights. There's such a confluence of issues seemingly unsolvable right now. Economic, terrorism, race, immigration, the fact that we've haven't been so divided in our history as Americans since the civil war, lack of morals, entitlement state of mind, violence etc
Moose-Knuckle
08-31-11, 04:06
Cali will be the first bankrupt state. If the fed "family" (new buzz word for government) bails them out, the entire US economy will collapse, sooner rather than later. Same for Germany. If they don't bail out Greece and Italy, and withdraw from the Euro, the Euro will tank and so will the rest of Europe.
Checkmate. Systematic collapse of the world economy. Think domino effect. Once the dollar is only good for lining a bird cage with the world WILL be brought together under one currency. It will start slow at first.The Amero will be introduced in the NAU (North American Union) formerly known as the United States of America, Canada, and Mexico.
Fun times are ahead. . .
The bankers are the ones leading this so changes to currency should be the indicator they are going for the home stretch. The bail out of the banks was the first overt, in-your-face-stupid-taxpayer move they made. And they got away with it with little grumbling.
Moose-Knuckle
08-31-11, 04:14
‘This Is WAR’ — Congressional Black Caucus Travels US Cities Using Violent Rhetoric: Declares ‘War’ on Racist Tea Party, Says Tea Party Wants to Lynch Blacks, Calls for Bank Runs, Civil Unrest in Their Neighborhoods and Homes
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/this-is-war-congressional-black-caucus-travels-us-cities-using-violent-rhetoric-declares-war-on-racist-tea-party-says-tea-party-wants-to-lynch-blacks-calls-for-bank-runs-civil-unrest-in-th/
Nancy’s Crazy Class War Conspiracies: The Rich Won’t Pay Taxes Because They Want to Be Immortal, GOP Hates Kids & Keeps Wages Low to Force People to Pay Bank Fees
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/nancys-crazy-class-war-conspiracies-the-rich-wont-pay-taxes-because-they-want-to-be-immortal-gop-hates-kids-keeps-wages-low-to-force-people-to-pay-bank-fees/
The Nation (”Mobilizing the Jobless,” January 10/17, 2011 edition)
“So where are the angry crowds, the demonstrations, sit-ins and unruly mobs? After all, the injustice is apparent. Working people are losing their homes and their pensions while robber-baron CEOs report renewed profits and windfall bonuses. Shouldn’t the unemployed be on the march? Why aren’t they demanding enhanced safety net protections and big initiatives to generate jobs?”
- Francis Fox Piven
Just saw this on Old Remus.
This time really is different, with so many unprecedented actions and reactions between the market and the state. I truly see no way out for the state this time, and it's going to be much, much worse than it would have been had it collapsed back then. I can't say for sure exactly when things will fall apart, but I'm more convinced than ever that they will, and that we are about to plunge deeper into the Greater Depression.
Doug Casey, Casey Research
http://www.woodpilereport.com/
The Remus really lets it rip after that. I agree whole heartedly with everything he says on today's blog.
Another sample:
Emergencies are piling up, each crisis more intractable than the last, the amplitude and frequency increasing by the week. The economies of whole nations are imploding and their best idea is for the insolvent to rescue the bankrupt. We have big finance spiking to the upside and plunging to the downside by turns, while the ground-level economy it allegedly represents contracts relentlessly toward 1932. Oh yeah, this will end well. We've entered the final phase, the Grand Cascade where the unwinding becomes disorderly, i.e., where bug meets windshield. Have a care. This disaster is the worst kept secret of our time, and so it is reliable information is treated as grit in the propaganda machine.
And wrapping up he is on a roll!
Should the disorder become a maelstrom, and should the worst among us decamp for richer pickings, tens of millions would be on the move. It's the stuff nightmares and doomer novels are made of; clever and violent millions leaving their self-fouled nests to overwhelm whole regions. Community defense would become the only priority, some sooner, some later, some too late. There isn't anything good to say about this phase, but to just say people will come together in their own defense misses the magnitude of it. In the long run, surviving communities of the prepared and able won't merely survive but will exalt in the genuine liberty which comes from working directly for ourselves rather than blindly laboring for an insatiable ruling class which browbeats and betrays and drains productive citizens to whatever extent they'll endure.
Moose-Knuckle
08-31-11, 04:33
With all these "tipping points" that are in play or about to be, I don't think its a matter of IF but a matter of WHEN.
Maybe some of you older guys who lived through the 60's and 70's can shed some light, but I don't know if there has ever been more uncertainty about our nation's future.
My father was in his twenties during the 60's. What got him into prepping and raising me the way he did was a singular event.
The word got out that busloads of "community activists" (Freedom Riders and like) were coming to town and bringing with them the types of riots that were happening on the West coast and in the Mid-west. This is when he bought is first semi-automatic rifle, an M1 carbine. A prominent Fort Worth Police detective went down town to survey the run on guns and ammo at the hardware store. After he saw every firearm and box of ammo bought up he unofficially met with the preachers and ministers in the black community. Needless to say the detective warned these clergy members of the ensuing blood bath that would besiege their communities if that kind of shit got started in a large Texas city. The clergy men met the busses at the city limits and turned them around saving countless lives in the process.
This type of civil unrest has been brewing for decades now. It's just a matter of time before someone comes along and kicks the ant hill over.
The part that keeps me thinking "WTF?", is that the stock market just happens to remain hovering around 11K. This is the greatest scam going IMO. I keep reading news articles about how the CA economy as well as the countries & world's, is tanking by the minute, yet the stock market remains strong? Bullshit. It's a coverup by the gov't who is either pumping fake money into it to keep the nieve from panicing, or some other means of keeping the #'s consistent.
California is a time bomb waiting to explode violently. When things go bad here, it likely will take the country with it.
Man! This whole page is full of truths that just piss me off. I'm sure there are others here, but I know I for sure need to keep a level head. I get wound up, and I start feeling myself wanting to say "Bring it on!" because I know I can handle myself. These assholes that are threatening war really have no clue how to make war. The RACIST congressional black caucus that is verbally blasting the Tea Party is obviously trying to ignite the coming battle.
Make sure you're ready; it's coming and unlike the past when it started in the streets, it's now being started by politicians that want what they invision in the end... a government that rules it's people absolutely. At that time everyone in government that supports that anti-American unconstitutionial vision becomes an HVT and we have real war waged by patriots that will restore the country at all costs.
Man! This whole page is full of truths that just piss me off. I'm sure there are others here, but I know I for sure need to keep a level head. I get wound up, and I start feeling myself wanting to say "Bring it on!" because I know I can handle myself. These assholes that are threatening war really have no clue how to make war. The RACIST congressional black caucus that is verbally blasting the Tea Party is obviously trying to ignite the coming battle.
Make sure you're ready; it's coming and unlike the past when it started in the streets, it's now being started by politicians that want what they invision in the end... a government that rules it's people absolutely. At that time everyone in government that supports that anti-American unconstitutionial vision becomes an HVT and we have real war waged by patriots that will restore the country at all costs.
100% agree....although I'm sure all here understand that any kind of collapse will be no walk in the park...even if you don't have to fire a shot. Our comfy life will suddenly turn hard and it will be a struggle to survive. While I believe I can handle it, I worry about others in my family...it won't be good, nor do I WANT it to happen.
My dad said something that is very true about the differences between the Great Depression and what we are about to go through here in this country. Back then, when people lost everything, they would stand in soup lines, hungrier than hell, and WAIT for their turn to have a small bowl of soup. Today, people (especially the entitlement class) would KILL for the bowl of soup. There will be no waiting in line or "you get your bowl and I'll have mine", it will be "I'll kill you for yours and have mine too."
Doc Safari
08-31-11, 09:19
Today, people (especially the entitlement class) would KILL for the bowl of soup. There will be no waiting in line or "you get your bowl and I'll have mine", it will be "I'll kill you for yours and have mine too."
A perfect understanding of what is about to happen IMHO.
I hate the thought of firing on people who have been misled all their lives and drummed into a frenzy by people who have used them to maintain their own position, but I do not see the current trends going anywhere but straight to Hell.
A perfect understanding of what is about to happen IMHO.
I hate the thought of firing on people who have been misled all their lives and drummed into a frenzy by people who have used them to maintain their own position, but I do not see the current trends going anywhere but straight to Hell.
I have not sympathy for the stupid....it should be as painful as possible. If they are being used by others then it is their own fault. Fire for effect!
QuietShootr
08-31-11, 09:58
I have not sympathy for the stupid....it should be as painful as possible. If they are being used by others then it is their own fault. Fire for effect!
This.
Doc Safari
08-31-11, 10:11
Gentlemen, my only point was that I hope we can defend ourselves without giving in to hatred. Let hate be the burden of those whom we fight.
Gentlemen, my only point was that I hope we can defend ourselves without giving in to hatred. Let hate be the burden of those whom we fight.
I see your point.
I am not sure about you but I hate the people that shoot at me...I hate them a lot. ;)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.