View Full Version : Brush Gun... should I get a 308 AR?
Hi guys:
I'd like a semi-auto rifle for varmint/deer hunting. I like rifles in the ".3" caliber because I don't *think* that .223 would bust the brush like we have around here.
I don't want to pay for surgical accuracy (i.e.- FF rail) because I don't *think* I need it.
Maybe an AR-10 is not the best gun for the job.
I don't know and it really doesn't matter what I *think*, so set me straight.
Also, is DPMS considered a reputable company? Or are they the Oly Arms of the 308 AR world?
Thanks a ton!
Any of the "intermediate" calibers would do. I wouldn't hunt with .223 anyway. Buy the 6.5, 6.8, 300 Blackout, etc... would fill your role nicer on a cheaper platform than an AR-10. I think there are also some "fatter cartidriges" like the 50 beowulf or a .458 for brush. I think there is also a 7.62x39 for our communists-bloc friend enthusiasts.
DPMS is on the right of "the chart" For a hunting rifle they produce a fine product. You may want to consider upgrades for heavier use, but in AR-10 land (and before the Armalite crowd gets in, an AR-10 is only an Armalite product, its not like the AR-15--"AR-10" is trademarked by Armalite. Others have "ARs in 308") all of the alternatives at the lower end of the price spectrum (~1000-2000) leave a lot to be desired by the pros around here. It seems that DPMS vs Armalite is a bit of a toss, with Rock River Arms the 3rd equal competitor in this range (and of equal quality--Bushmaster is really DPMS).
If you want "the" AR in 308 be prepared to hit the 2500 mark for price. LMT/Larue and similar make great rifles but at a price.
That's why you may find a much more affordable alternative, one of the cartridges listed above that can latch on to your current 5.56 lower receiver or even a complete new rifle for near or slightly more than an excellent AR-15.
Fried Chicken Blowout
03-02-11, 19:58
My plan is to build a 6.5 Grendel as my next AR. Take a look at all the uppers available from Alexander Arms in 6.5 and I think you'll find something you'll like. It appears to have the performance of a .308 without having to step up from your standard AR-15 lower. I'm a freak for keeping everything uniform so this appeals to me, even if it's not the best performing round in the world...
Very interesting and enlightening.
I assumed that a new cailber required a new lower (with the exception of the 5.7).
So can a standard .225/5.56 lower take a 6.5 grendel?
What about a 6.8?
Misnomer. Even a rather thin branch can redirect a hi-rev object like a bullet, of any size. A shorter carbine, with a shorter barrel, in most any caliber, with properly aligned shot to minimize interference, will do better than a 458 Win Mag shot through a bramble bush.
Also, a 6.5 or 6.8 would be far, far lighter overall to lug around in the woods, and move through thick stuff, than any 308 AR, even an ArmaLite AR-10 carbine with a LW barrel.
As was mentioned, ArmaLite = AR-10, everyone else = 308 AR or their correct model designation. DPMS is LR-308.
So can a standard .223/5.56 lower take a 6.5 grendel? What about a 6.8?
Yes and yes.
New uppers, new mags, new bolt are needed for either one. 6.5 mag does not equal 6.8 mag, however.
I believe all those I listed can be used with a standard 5.56/223 lower. Ones I know can:
6.5
6.8
300 Blackout
(there are others)
Ones I strongly suspect can (you should verify first--I'm at work and they tend to frown upon browsing for such things):
7.62x39
.458 Socom
50 Beowulf.
they are all based on or built around the 5.56 cartridge size (except of course 7.62 x 39).
Only if you want something like .243, .308, etc do you need to move to a "308 AR" platform. Is more about cartridge length than bullet diameter when talking about lower receivers. I know for sure that there are plenty of hog and deer hunters using 6.8 SPC. (I looked into it heavily, that's why i tend to favor it, know more about it than others -end disclaimer). I'm pretty sure the 6.5 and 300 Blackout also have strong enthusiasts from what I've seen here.
Misnomer. Even a rather thin branch can redirect a hi-rev object like a bullet, of any size. A shorter carbine, with a shorter barrel, in most any caliber, with properly aligned shot to minimize interference, will do better than a 458 Win Mag shot through a bramble bush.
^^^THIS...plus...
Chances are if you are taking a shot, you can see the target (i hope atleast).
So go 5.56 or 6.8, save the weight and dont shoot directly through a tree/brush and you should be fine.
Really, I'm trying to work--
I think this will help:
courtesy of http://www.sixguns.com/range/Brsh.htm
No, brush guns do not enable us to shoot through brush. They are so named simply because they handle easier in heavy cover or thick brush and most importantly, they come up to the shoulder and swing ever so smooooothly. The easiest carrying brush guns are short barreled, quick on the first shot, and just as quick to chamber a second shot. That means a levergun. Since we are talking close quarters, we do not need a three hundred yard cartridge such as the .270, .30-06, or 7mm Magnum.
I think any of those intermediate cartridges fill that nicely. A nice lightweight AR makes a great brush gun. An AR-10 typically is much heavier. The only reason I shy away from 5.56 for hunting deer is it is illegal in many places.
Fried Chicken Blowout
03-03-11, 11:17
From the research I've done regarding 6.8 vs 6.5, I've decided the following...
6.8 is most likely the best all around round in the AR if you want to hunt. It's appropriate for home defense as the capacity is almost as good as the 5.56. It can be used for hunting with very good results and the price of ammo and or reloading components won't kill you.
6.5 is by far the more superior (could be considered the most superior) hunting round that can still be fired from a standard AR-15 lower. It provides accuracy at long distances that are superior to .308 and for the most part will do the same damage that a .308 will. Is it a short .308, no you just can't totally make up for the shorter case and somewhat lighter bullets. But for wringing the most out of a standard AR lower, I think this is the ticket. There is a write up on TOS from a few years back about Mark LaRue taking an Elk at 400-500 yards with a single shot from his 6.5 Grendel. If he can do that, I'm assuming I can take a deer or hog at 200-300 yards without much issue.
6.5 will cost you more and it wouldn't be the first weapon I'd pick up if I needed to shoot something in my house.
30-30 in an AR-15. That's what the 300 Blackout looks like to me. If you hunt in heavily wooded areas a good ole 30-30 is about as good as it gets. I think most people saying brush gun mean a gun for hunting in thick woods at close range not blasting off shots thinking they will power through the brush. At least I hope that's what is meant.
The 300's looking like a great round for that if they make the right hunting loads for it. Excluding SBR types, I think a AR style 308 is to heavy to be a good "brush gun" but that's just me.
Well, 30-30 is good, but the .35 Rem still rules :p
Ok, well if that's the case, I might need to look into a 6.8 upper.
I've kinda had my eye on that round since the (cringe) Future Weapons episode on the Barrett. (sorry! past life...)
Ended up going with a .223/ 5.56 'cause it's cheaper to shoot.
Any ideas on good manufacturers for that particular upper?
Same are normal 5.56 uppers with a few new ones added.
I've heard good things about AR performance (sometimes I'm scared to make a recommendation, less the community pimpslap me--so be warned I AM NOT AN EXPERT), also
DD
Noveske
BCM (I think they make a 6.8).
Same are normal 5.56 uppers with a few new ones added.
I've heard good things about AR performance (sometimes I'm scared to make a recommendation, less the community pimpslap me--so be warned I AM NOT AN EXPERT), also
DD
Noveske
BCM (I think they make a 6.8).
DD's 6.8 offerings are still pending mfg testing, and BCM doesn't make anything in 6.8.
Noveske makes great stuff, but all their 6.8 stuff uses stainless barrels only (no N4s in 6.8). Not a huge deal, but there it is.
Well, 30-30 is good, but the .35 Rem still rules :p
I won't argue with that!
Well, 30-30 is good, but the .35 Rem still rules :p
45-70, baby
By all means, buy a .308. Just don't buy it for a brush gun. I think I saw a list one time of about 30 different caliber uppers you can get for the AR15-size lower. Pretty much all the calibers that have succeeded in surviving the test of time have been mentioned already and any one of them is a good choice for short-range deer. Even (gasp) 223/5.56 WITH THE RIGHT BULLET.
But once you've filled your desire for the light brush gun-TREAT YOURSELF TO A .308 AR. You've only 1 life to live and you deserve the sheer pleasure of a good AR10-type rifle. Just go out and shoot, shoot and shoot some more.:D
By all means, buy a .308. Just don't buy it for a brush gun. I think I saw a list one time of about 30 different caliber uppers you can get for the AR15-size lower. Pretty much all the calibers that have succeeded in surviving the test of time have been mentioned already and any one of them is a good choice for short-range deer. Even (gasp) 223/5.56 WITH THE RIGHT BULLET.
But once you've filled your desire for the light brush gun-TREAT YOURSELF TO A .308 AR. You've only 1 life to live and you deserve the sheer pleasure of a good AR10-type rifle. Just go out and shoot, shoot and shoot some more.:D
:D
I know...!
I like the 30-30, but... I just know I'm going to be overun by mutant ninja coyotes while I'm deer hunting.
Thanks for all the pointers, guys.
BamaBowM@n
03-24-11, 13:42
Have a DPMS Oracle in .308, 16 " barrel, shoot 168 gr...You will not have a problem with deer ,pigs ,etc...would not trade it for anything.. I also have a Bushy 5.56..its just a shooters pref..
marshallwk
03-29-11, 20:22
If its really just for hunting and you want a brush gun I suggest a 30 30 lever action. If you want a tactical gun at the same time then so be it.
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