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View Full Version : The next, next M4C fun shoot



GlockWRX
03-03-11, 13:33
Let's start setting up the next M4C fun shoot. I am thinking mid-May or June. Maybe Gitmo can advise us of what days are available.

Maybe at the next shoot we could spend more time with the pistols. For most of us, our pistols are our primary system. Here are some things we could do:

Concealed carry draw
Shooting while moving
Drawing while moving
Malfunction drills
Barricade work with the pistol
Alternate positions (rollover/urban prone, kneeling, squatting, etc.)
Mozambique/NSR drills

We could also go into some more advanced stuff on the rifle:
Dot failure drills
Rollover prone/urban prone
Malfunction drills
Shoulder transitions

Let's get a list going of what you guys want to do, and I can start putting together a training plan and find specific drills to cover that stuff.

vader
03-03-11, 14:15
I'm in! let's get these things more progressive and faster moving!

Titleist
03-03-11, 14:19
I can make it. Location though?

GlockWRX
03-03-11, 16:54
I can make it. Location though?

Central Whidbey Island. Gitmosmoke hosts us at the Central Whidbey Island Sportsman's Association (http://cwsaonline.org/) range.

It's a great facility. Plus Gitmo brings BBQ pork.

Titleist
03-03-11, 17:05
Central Whidbey Island. Gitmosmoke hosts us at the Central Whidbey Island Sportsman's Association (http://cwsaonline.org/) range.

It's a great facility. Plus Gitmo brings BBQ pork.

Damn. WA. no NFA love.

Tom Swift
03-03-11, 17:23
If I make the trip down from Vancouver would anyone be able to lend me some hardware? I'll bring my own ammo and everything.

GlockWRX
03-03-11, 18:12
If I make the trip down from Vancouver would anyone be able to lend me some hardware? I'll bring my own ammo and everything.


I have some hardware you can use. Either a DDM4 or a Colt 6520.

Tom Swift
03-03-11, 20:18
I have some hardware you can use. Either a DDM4 or a Colt 6520.

Wicked thanks that would be awesome, I'll have to see if I'm going to be this side of North America this summer but I've subscribed to this thread so I'll keep an eye on this event.

PieceKeeper
03-03-11, 20:29
I'll be there no matter when or where unless a family member is dying.

Suggestions:

While it's understood that I need more dry-fire practice at home, I'd ask that we incorporate more transition to secondaries in the drills. I've found that I'm used to firing and reloading one weapon over and over (due to most of my practice shooting at a static range) that it's not even close to intuitive when I run dry in a dynamic setting.

Also helpful for me would be more emphasis on reloading using cover when the barricades are up.

Thinking back about me (and a few others) standing in an open field, reloading my primary and not being called on it makes me cringe.:fie: Just sayin'.

MookNW
03-03-11, 20:31
I'll be there no matter when or where unless a family member is dying.



Hell Yeah, might be a good sig line.

Hapainwa
03-03-11, 20:36
I can make June, as my wife will be done with school and I won't be with the kids on Saturdays and Sundays anymore. I'll keep an eye on the thread to see how it all plays out.

Peter Panzer
03-03-11, 22:41
I had a great time last weekend and benefitted from being exposed to plenty of new techniques/drills. If you all will have another rookie, I would love to join in again. For what it's worth, June is the better option for me.

One thought that occurred to me after last Saturday was to possibly alternate the "RSO's" after GlockWRX introduces the drill. It seemed a bit of a shame that GlockWRX and Gitmo, the two guys who put the most into bringing the day to fruition, got the least trigger time.

GitmoSmoke
03-03-11, 22:56
Lets look at Jun 25th as the tenetive date for this shoot. Being late in June we can have the range untill dusk which happens to be 2110. We can have the range for 12 hrs. Unfortunately as I don't have a pay scale yet for my new prospective job, I may have to charge for BBQ. Last time it was about $45 for the meat, so figure $4 each to cover for lunch. I hate to have to do that, but right now it seems to be the only way I can do it. Sorry :(
We will remain range fee free. So bring more ammo.

PieceKeeper
03-03-11, 23:28
I may have to charge for BBQ. Last time it was about $45 for the meat, so figure $4 each to cover for lunch.

I'd be willing to pay you extra to cover the last meal. It was really good! Thanks for feeding us.

crusader4x
03-04-11, 00:12
I'm in again if y'all have me although the 25th isn't the best date for me. Weekend prior or after work better. And $4 is a bargain.

GitmoSmoke
03-04-11, 12:08
Right now the available dates are Jun 25th, July 16th and 24th. I'll need a firm date no later than March 14th. That is the meeting when I can get with the entire board. I'm going to sell it as leasons learned practice from the MGM Ironman shoot.

GlockWRX
03-04-11, 14:34
June 25th works for me.

Gitmo,

I'm going to bring $10; $4 for the food and the remainder as a donation to the range. The CWSA has been very hospitable and I'd like to thank them for that.

PieceKeeper
03-04-11, 14:56
I can do any of those dates but the middle of July sounds good. Weather should be warm and dry.

alvincullumyork
03-05-11, 00:42
Depending on what my work schedule is like over the summer I'm in but damn a 6 hour drive and a ferry ride. I will have to find someone to carpool with.

Pistol from concealed carry is what I want to focus on the most.

Would gladly pay 4 or more for lunch.

kaltesherz
03-05-11, 12:07
I like the idea of doing more pistol work, as in reality it will more likely be our "primary" than our carbines- maybe we could not only do a bit of drills from concealment but also start at close range (1m) and work our way out at bit, maybe even a drill at the maximum range allowed just so people can get a feel for their capabilities.

Also I'd like to shoot carbines at 100/200m sometimes, even though I know that's not possible at the range we reserve.

Damn, I'm already getting really excited about the next shoot and it's months off...

GitmoSmoke
03-05-11, 12:48
I am pretty sure that sometime during the shoots we can take a trip to the long range. There have been several times I used the range for hours by myself. Usually summer isn't a crowded time at the range. Everyone likes to get out of town, or take the boat to go fishing. Late in August it strarts to pick up for deer season, and by mid October it get really quiet again.
I the group wants to I can ask for the rifle range, but we would probably have to pay a range fee. Right now I think it is $50. I'll check and see how much and post it here when I find out. My reccomendation is use our normal range and we can go over to the long range when it is empty.

J8127
03-05-11, 14:00
I'll be in the mountains this summer, but pencil me in for the next, next, next m4c shoot.

GlockWRX
03-05-11, 18:44
My buddy Jeff is pumped to hit the range again. That was his first time shooting his brand new Daniel Defense. He's hooked, and ready for the next fun shoot.

GitmoSmoke
03-05-11, 19:11
Anyone who was at the snow shoot remembers our wonderful neighbor. He has been making a pest of himself even more lately. I suggest we end our summer range session with a tribute to the Army firebases of Viet Nam. Please save a magazine or 2 to end the shoot with a massive volley of rapid fire. I'm thinking of 2058. Two minutes before legal shooting time ends. The extra minute is just a cushion to make sure we don't go over. The board doesn't have a problem with it.

GlockWRX
03-05-11, 20:09
At one of the classes I attended years ago we did something called 'Rolling Thunder'. All the shooters line up with full mags. Shooter 1 starts off firing as fast as he can. As soon as he's dry, shooter 2 starts up. Then shooter 3 and so on. It ends up being a good minute or two of constant gun fire.

Serves that jerk right.

MistWolf
03-06-11, 00:22
Go shoot? Yes, the sooner the better! Can I bring a 308? AR isn't finished yet

MookNW
03-06-11, 14:27
Just gotta say how happy I am that all us NW'ers are able to put these things on and have a great time doing it. As hard as it is to find decent people to shoot/train with, I have felt nothing less than welcome to these events and privileged to get this level of experience without having to shell out $600 and a plain ticket. Granted it not a VSM class, but for what glockwrx and everyone else bring to the table, it's sure as shit good enough for me right now.
I will happily attend any and all NW shoots and contribute where I can because as far as I've seen the return is far greater than the investment. That being said, a big shout to you Gitmosmoke. You really have made this possible for all of us. Vouching for a bunch of shooters you've never met before is a hard thing to do, luckily, the guys on this board are a solid bunch of dudes who seem to have their shit together for the most part from the gate.
BTW, pulled pork and guns FTW.
That being said... sniff sniff, can't wait till the next one. There was some talk in the midst of our snow day of a tweener event on the dry side of the state. I'd be down for this as well, but perhaps that should be a different thread.
Close in handgun stuff is a great idea and something I'd love to work on. As Kaltesherz said, it's a little more real life scenario for the avg. Joe.
As Far as 100/200 is concerned, bring it. I suck in all areas and can use anything I can get out of these sessions.
-MOok

kaltesherz
03-06-11, 14:27
At one of the classes I attended years ago we did something called 'Rolling Thunder'. All the shooters line up with full mags. Shooter 1 starts off firing as fast as he can. As soon as he's dry, shooter 2 starts up. Then shooter 3 and so on. It ends up being a good minute or two of constant gun fire.

Serves that jerk right.

Sounds kinda like the Australian Peel, either that or a Mad Minute should do the trick...

...seriously, what do people expect when they buy a house RIGHT NEXT TO A SHOOTING RANGE???

MookNW
03-06-11, 14:29
...seriously, what do people expect when they buy a house RIGHT NEXT TO A SHOOTING RANGE???

Tannerite?

GitmoSmoke
03-06-11, 19:13
Tannerite?
Don't tempt me. I think that tannerite might be more than some members would tolerate.
I must admit that I was apperhensive at first, but after a few minutes everything felt like we were old friends. So a big thanks back to the group for making it so easy to host the shoots here. The board is now using our group as an example to show the new members how they need to act. "How can the 3 gun team shoot 6000 rounds and not damage anything, and some others destroy the target frames in 100 rounds?" In everything but the barricades we ended up with only 3 holes that werent supposed to be there. Plus I ended up with 40 lbs of reloadable brass. Filled two 5 gallon buckets.
We can have the range till 9pm in June. If anyone would like I'll scout out a local place if anyone wants to spend the night here. Maybe invite the significant other along. Lots of other tourist activities on the Island.
I sent a PM to Scimitar to see if he wanted to set somthing up in Okanagan county.

vader
03-06-11, 20:12
I say we st up a steel gong at 100yrds and start ringing it in quick succession. that night flare some tempers. just sayin.

mkmckinley
03-06-11, 22:13
That last shoot was the first one I've been to and it was outstanding. I'd love to show up and contribute to your brass supply again. I can even bring some targets. Would anyone be interested in a short (30-60 minute) TCCC/first aid or IFAK class?

alvincullumyork
03-06-11, 22:37
Would anyone be interested in a short (30-60 minute) TCCC/first aid or IFAK class?

What does TCCC stand for? Would love a first aid class. I just got my wilderness first responder cert and any knowledge to add to it would be great.

kaltesherz
03-06-11, 22:48
What does TCCC stand for? Would love a first aid class. I just got my wilderness first responder cert and any knowledge to add to it would be great.

Tactical Combat Casualty Care, I'd be down as I'm a little rusty and what I did learn is probably pretty obsolete at this point.

I could do a small class with people who are newer to the AR system to show them the ins and outs, proper lubrication, basic cleaning, things to keep an eye out for wear-wise, mags etc etc. Plus they might be more likely to ask questions in a smaller group than a larger one. While a lot of us are pretty experienced we forget some others aren't and we may be leaving them behind...

PieceKeeper
03-06-11, 22:52
I'll be sure to load up the 75 round drum and save it for this. Pretty sure it was the tipping point for them at the last shoot. Happy to do it again. :sarcastic:

BTW, I'm totally down for an TCCC/First Aid/IFAK rundown and count me in for a road trip east of the mountains.

GlockWRX
03-07-11, 00:07
I could use some TCCC info as well.

Gitmo, I could use some info on a decent RV campground nearby with room for a 35 ft trailer.

Also, I have a steel target that would be perfect for use on the 100 and 200 yard lines. I know the board didn't approve it last time but maybe we could take another run at it.

It's an actual purpose built AR500 steel target, not a garage made thing from soft scrap steel. The stand holds the target at a forward leaning angle so all rounds are deflected into the dirt right at the target base. Click here (https://www.saluteproducts.com/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=102&osCsid=249fbaffbd735c23203ac9dd9caf5542) for a pic of the stand. The target itself is the EAG silhouette.

Finally, do you have the dimensions of the removable target stands? I'm thinking I can knock a few together if I get some time.

HD670
03-07-11, 05:41
That last shoot was the first one I've been to and it was outstanding. I'd love to show up and contribute to your brass supply again. I can even bring some targets. Would anyone be interested in a short (30-60 minute) TCCC/first aid or IFAK class?

awesome idea..

the last shoot was awesome!!had more fun than i thought i was going to have (snow and cold)haha. the BBQ was awesome and worth more than 4 bucks. if im in the country or state id definitely show up..

GitmoSmoke
03-07-11, 13:23
Several of our group have mentioned to me about giving something back to the club. MKmckinley and kaltesherz gave me an idea. Since we have 12 hours for this next meet how about inviting the other club members to see who we are and what we are doing, for an hour or so around lunch? We could include AR familiarization, AR maintenance, first aid, intro to 3 gun, and whatever anyone else can bring to the table. Those of us that don't have a specific specialty can serve as RSO, assistants to the instructors, or just do some light general maintenance around the range.
Jason, Fort Casey state park is about 10 minutes from the club. Deception pass is about half an hour. Island county has Rhododendron park, but I woulden't reccomend it.

Peter Panzer
03-07-11, 13:49
The board is now using our group as an example to show the new members how they need to act.

Thanks for sharing this Gitmo - that's great to hear. I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest we simply stick to constructively "doing our thing." If an individual who can't grasp that living next to a firearms range translates into a lot of noise gets upset as we go about our routine that's one thing, but to deliberately be provocative, while fun to scheme, doesn't really offer any positive outcomes.

My first impression of the group is that we truly have a great set of guys. I would rather the group "maintain the high ground," realistically practice our drills, continue building our good name with the board/membership, avoid visits by the deputy and focus on quality shooting.

Of course, if one of you simply insists that a naval gunnery demonstration is vital for the groups edification, I would be down for that.:D By the way, steel at 100-200 yds. would be a fantastic addition if it's possible to arrange.


Would anyone be interested in a short (30-60 minute) TCCC/first aid or IFAK class?

Personally speaking, this sounds great - I would benefit from it immensely. Thanks for offering!


I could do a small class with people who are newer to the AR system to show them the ins and outs, proper lubrication, basic cleaning, things to keep an eye out for wear-wise, mags etc etc.

I would go in for this as well. I find that no matter how "basic" the subject matter, more often than not, you will pick up a new handy tip or even look at an old task in a new light when it is presented by a new person.

Several of you guys have an outstanding body of knowledge - I am very impressed by your willingness to share.

kaltesherz
03-07-11, 14:37
Several of our group have mentioned to me about giving something back to the club. MKmckinley and kaltesherz gave me an idea. Since we have 12 hours for this next meet how about inviting the other club members to see who we are and what we are doing? We could include AR familiarization, AR maintenance, first aid, intro to 3 gun, and whatever anyone else can bring to the table. Those of us that don't have a specific specialty can serve as RSO, assistants to the instructors, or just do some light general maintenance around the range.
Jason, Fort Casey state park is about 10 minutes from the club. Deception pass is about half an hour. Island county has Rhododendron park, but I woulden't reccomend it.

Sadly I'll have to disagree on this one, while 12 hours is a long time, turning it into a classroom for your other range members would be a distraction. Plus many (most) of us have never truly done three gun, so the cat would be out of the bag pretty quickly. If we have some openings and you'd like to invite some of your friends to join us I'd have no problem trying to get them up to speed on the basics, but to have a large show and tell would detract from the training.

Lo ciento.

GitmoSmoke
03-07-11, 14:56
Peter Panzer, and kaltesherz, thanks for catching my mistake this early.
What I wrote was not quite what I was thinking, definately what I wanted do. I meant to say an hour or so of the day near lunch time. I don't want to disatract from the training either, but 12 hours is a long time on the range.
With an hour lunch break and an hour of show and tell that still leaves 10 hours.
I can get the 3 gun rules down easily enough. I have been studying so I have that base covered.

alt154shiver
03-08-11, 16:31
I'm down to come up. I may try to scheme a ride with someone to get up there. If it's in June it will be shortly after i return from Kuwait and I'm not sure if I'll have plates for my car by then.

MookNW
03-11-11, 01:52
Would anyone be interested in a short (30-60 minute) TCCC/first aid or IFAK class?

Very much, it's something that could be of great use to a lot of us.

GitmoSmoke
03-13-11, 14:45
Gents,
I'm goingto ask for June 25th unless the group wants a different date. Tomorrow is the deadline for scheduling, and I need to know by 1700.

MookNW
03-13-11, 14:48
25th GTG for me

kaltesherz
03-13-11, 14:56
Sounds good to me

alt154shiver
03-13-11, 15:24
Sounds good. I'm in to meet people.

mkmckinley
03-13-11, 16:16
Sounds good, I can probably make that date.

GlockWRX
03-13-11, 21:28
I'm in and so is Jeff.

Peter Panzer
03-14-11, 00:24
Already looking forward to it - thanks Gitmo!

GitmoSmoke
03-23-11, 17:51
Guys what would you be willing to pay for us to have the long range reserved? It looks like we might have to pay and reserve the long range. The short range is going to get more useage this summer, and may not be available. I talked to the club VP today and he was amenable to $15 per person per day, and letting us schedule the range for once per quarter. Figure $20 per person will cover having the 200 yard range reserved for all shooting hours and BBQ. I'm going to go before the board Monday the 28th, so let me know how you feel about this.

jdub75
03-23-11, 18:15
Is there room for more? I visited the island last summer with the fam & loved it. This is a perfect reason togo back!

MookNW
03-23-11, 18:24
I'm pretty fond of the range we've been using.
Can we run the same cof's on the 200 that we've been using on the 75, or just long range stuff?

GitmoSmoke
03-23-11, 18:41
We will be able to run most, if not all of the normal drills on the long range. We wouldn't have the intermediate berms, but we would have the option of shooting from 3 to 200 yards. The LE depts on the island all use this range for their training, so I don't forsee any problems. No grass on the long range so the knee pads will be even more important now.
I agree that the short range is great for what we need, and I am still going to try and get that one, however we may not be able to reserve it, or we may have to pay just as much. Most of the shooting that is done at the club during the summer involves using the short range, and I think the intent is to keep as many people as possible happy including the neighbors.
jdub75 we will start a signup list about 30 days out once I can get a date nailed down. First come first served on the sign up. 20 shooters max.

kaltesherz
03-23-11, 21:39
I'm in either way, but any possibility of using steel out on the 200m range? It's been a long time since I've been able to ring steel and it sure beats having to cease-fire and walk down to see if you're hitting.

MookNW
03-23-11, 22:39
Sound like it'll be interesting, I'm game. Got any pics? This thread's starving for some eye candy.

GlockWRX
03-23-11, 22:49
$20 is more than reasonable for the range and food.

The 200 yard range could give us some fun and interesting options. But we could certainly do with the 75 yard range as well. Either way I think we will have fun.

GitmoSmoke
03-23-11, 23:54
I'm going to have one of the club officers come out and hopefully approve GlockWRX's steel target. The club just bought all new armor plate targets which are supposed to be rifle rated, but I don't know if they will let me use them if they know we will fire rifles at them.

Peter Panzer
03-24-11, 00:42
Either 75 or 200 yards is fine with me, however the later does give us some additional flexibility. It would be fun to have the space to set up some "IDPA-ish" courses and conduct some intermediate range shooting with the carbines. For the close range session(s), we can always haul our bags and doodads downrange so there isn't a lot of schlepping from the 5yd. line to the 200yd. line to stuff mags and such.

By the way, for those of you already looking for 5.56, Natchez Shooting Supply currently has XM193 (http://www.natchezss.com/Ammo.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=FA&prodID=FAXM193C&prodTitle=Federal 223/5.56 55 gr NATO XM193 FMJ 20/box) at $6.69/20 rnd. box.

PieceKeeper
03-24-11, 00:49
Considering how much it costs for formal training, $20 is an excellent deal.

Oh, and food.

Thanks Gitmo!

crusader4x
03-24-11, 01:45
I concur that $20 is a bargain and would be more than happy to pay that for another shoot like the last one. Can't say I care which range we use either.

kaltesherz
03-24-11, 02:20
Natchez Shooting Supply[/I] currently has XM193 (http://www.natchezss.com/Ammo.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=FA&prodID=FAXM193C&prodTitle=Federal 223/5.56 55 gr NATO XM193 FMJ 20/box) at $6.69/20 rnd. box.

AIM usually has it for $5.95 to $5.79/20 but is currently out (should be back soon) and has PMC M855 for $6.19 to $5.79/20
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=APMC223SS109&name=PMC+X-TAC+.223+62grn+SS109+20rd+Box&groupid=156
(obviously might want to avoid M855 on steel targets)

Peter Panzer
03-24-11, 10:40
AIM usually has it for $5.95 to $5.79/20...

Alas, it's too late for me this time - thanks for the tip though.

$20 for a full day of shooting, learning and lunch is no sweat compared to what I just forked over for ammo.

GlockWRX
03-24-11, 11:46
(obviously might want to avoid M855 on steel targets)

To reiterate: Don't bring steel cored ammo if we are going to be using steel targets. If we use my target, I don't want people using steel cored ammo. If we use the range's targets, the same applies. We could lose our privileges at the range if we ruin their brand new targets.

GitmoSmoke
03-24-11, 13:24
It isn't a sure thing that we will even be able to use the clubs steel plates. I know if the new plates get damaged, I'll have to replace them, and then get kicked out of the club. I'm fairly sure if I can get the VP down there, he will let us use Jasonís steel.
Jason, What about wolf or other steel jacketed ammo? I'd still be worried that I'd get pits from that too. If the island gets to the point where we have burn restrictions all shooting at steel outside of official club matches will stop. Island County sheriffs started a small grass fire and now it is our policy.

GlockWRX
03-24-11, 13:49
Jason, What about wolf or other steel jacketed ammo? I'd still be worried that I'd get pits from that too. If the island gets to the point where we have burn restrictions all shooting at steel outside of official club matches will stop. Island County sheriffs started a small grass fire and now it is our policy.

Does Wolf make a bullet with a steel jacket? I didn't even know there was such a thing. I've heard of steel bullet cores (bad) and steel cartridge cases (don't matter), but not steel bullet jackets. To be on the safe side I would say don't use bullets that contain steel, whether it's the core or jacket. The case can be steel, just not the bullet.

If we do end up using steel targets, I think we will have to do an ammo inspection before we shoot. Take a magnet to a sample of everyone's bullets. If it's magnetic it's a no-go. Some indoor ranges do this. Obviously, anything tungsten or armor piercing is out as well.

As far as fires go, if it's not too dry and we are still able to shoot the steel we could take a water sprayer and spray the area at the base of the targets to keep the potential for fires down. That's a pretty extreme step, and shouldn't be necessary unless the grass is super dry.

kaltesherz
03-24-11, 13:55
Jason, What about wolf or other steel jacketed ammo? I'd still be worried that I'd get pits from that too. If the island gets to the point where we have burn restrictions all shooting at steel outside of official club matches will stop. Island County sheriffs started a small grass fire and now it is our policy.

I'm not Jason, but steel jacketed ammo shouldn't be a problem as it's so mild it won't do anything that copper jackets won't do (which is why it doesn't wear out barrels any faster and why 75% of USGI 7.62x51 has copper washed steel jackets). When I was in the military I even used M855 on plates without issue even at fairly close ranges (50m) as the steel "penetrator" in the tip isn't hardened and not true AP (That's M995). Obviously that isn't something we should try on anyone's plates. Good rifle rated plates can take a pretty decent beating (says the guy who currently doesn't have any plates).

GitmoSmoke
03-24-11, 16:05
The 55 gr Wolf military classic is definately steel jacketed, and I'm more worried about the waranty on the targets being voided. There is not enough water available on the range to get that rule waived for us. In June it shouldn't be bad, but if we have to wait untill July we will have to see.

alt154shiver
03-24-11, 20:45
Range fees wont be an issue. I'm still in. I've never shot at steel before, so if it's a no-go I don't suppose I'll know what I'm missing, but I'll stick with XM193 anyway.

MookNW
03-25-11, 09:39
I have a friend with a decent shop in town where I could probably get one or more steel gongs made up if the stock isn't too expensive.

kaltesherz
03-26-11, 02:38
Interesting thread regarding M193 vs M855 on steel targets... surprising results:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=76409&page=3

GitmoSmoke
03-28-11, 22:50
I went to the CWSA board meeting tonight and we didn't get approved for our next meet. Next time I can ask will be April 25th.
It was a close vote, most not wanting to take shooting spots away from the regular members. The only solutions where we won't have problems are
1. Every one joins the club. $60 per year, and NRA membership required.
2. We hold the meets during the week
3. It becomes an actual match where we have open entry for all

The board wants it to take place during the week.
If we get approved we will have to have all the 2012 dates figured out around Thanksgiving.
If anyone else has an idea please let me know.

MookNW
03-29-11, 01:01
Hmmm.
My take on membership:
I don't mind paying $60 to join cwsa. I think it's a good deal for a years membership where there are different kinds of ranges available to us, member events, a clubhouse and lastly a place to host our noisy asses. I pay 15 dollars to shoot benchrest out to 100yds at kenmore with 1 in the gun at all times.... It blows. I also pay 14 dollars to run around barricades at fnrl on Fridays while only being able to expend 20 rds of brass case ammo after waiting 2 hours- It quenches to a certain extent, but does not compare to what we got going on at cwsa. If we had quarterly shoots, it would pay for itself easily IMO.
NRA membership is non-issue.
The bad:
With each of us having to be a member to shoot there, I doubt it'll appeal to the NG's unless members can bring a guest. If members could bring a guest, they could see what they are missing without having to shell out a bunch of coin. Also, I doubt anyone south of Seattle would be interested in making a commitment to a club so far away.
The good of the bad:
If only a few people wanna do memberships, everyone will get alot more trigger time at the shoots.

My take on matches: Meh...

My take on weekdays:
We are a group of sorts, and if everyone votes we do it on weekdays, then it should be so.
I doubt that will be the case though.

I think the best choice would be the membership deal, but it seems we may still get resistance from the club for reserving the range on fair weather weekends. I don't want to step on anyone's toes, especially if I have to travel over an hour to do so.

I think that cwsa is the best venue in the area for what we are doing. We would have to pay a shit ton more to do it at any other place .
If anyone has a better or equal place for us to hold these events, at a comparable fee, please chime in.

crusader4x
03-29-11, 01:32
Good summation Mook.

FYI, I'd be willing to buy a membership.

GitmoSmoke
03-29-11, 15:52
I'm going to try my best to get as much leg work done if anyone wants to join up. The biggest hurdle is setting up the mandatory safety brief. With enough interest I think I can convince one of the board to give it on a weekend. As a member you are most certainly allowed to bring guests without a limit on the numbers, but you are responsible for their actions. The $60 fee also would cover your immediate family members, if they choose to come to the safety brief. If you can attend 2 work parties you can get $20 off the next years membership. We can do an hours worth of work after the meets to satisfy that requirement.
post or PM with questions. Sorry this is becoming such a pain.
Membership applications are available on the website www.cwsaonline.org

PieceKeeper
03-30-11, 00:33
Either way, I'm still in. Be happy to support a place that supports us.

Thanks for getting this set up, Gitmo.

mbacelonia
03-30-11, 02:20
new-ish to the site but count me in please. i'd love to meet some of the folks from the site.

GitmoSmoke
04-02-11, 01:05
Sunday the 10th we are doing the first steel match for the season. If anyone wants to come up shoot with us and meet some of the other members bring 200 rounds of pistol ammo, and a belt holster. I'll be there by 0830, brief at 0900, shooting to start soon after.

MookNW
04-02-11, 10:06
If I wanna come up for safety brief , meeting, join. Apr 11th is the 1st opportunity?

GitmoSmoke
04-02-11, 11:07
Sure is. Brief starts at 1800.

Silver_2325
04-02-11, 20:54
Looks like a lot of fun. If anyone is interested in doing this type event in SE Washington, Richland, let me know.

hid237
04-03-11, 23:35
I missed the snow shoot, but did get to enjoy the facilities (and BBQ) at the first one. I agree $60.00 is not that much money for an annual membership and like PieceKeeper said 'Be happy to support a place that supports us'. I'm in.

MookNW
04-04-11, 09:16
Gitmo,
What are the chances of getting the weekend shoots ok'd/ not ok'd if a handful of m4c's member up?

Peter Panzer
04-04-11, 12:44
I was curious how things are stacking up as well.

Sexy bastards though we may be, it makes sense, at least outwardly, that the board would give preferential treatment to CWSA members.

Did the board decline our request for a June 25th reservation because they wanted to give priority to members who have already petitioned to schedule their own activity or because they wanted to leave the schedule open for the potential that members would request a reservation?

If the former, it would seem we are now paying either way, whether it is the previously discussed single day $20 range/lunch fee or by becoming an annual CWSA/NRA member ($95 including NRA membership). As Mook asks, what would it take to get our group on, at least, equal scheduling footing with the existing membership?

If the later, does this really come down to checking in with the board on April 25th and waiting for the next opening, which understandably could be tricky on Saturday afternoons during the summer.

To me, one key is keeping this shoot as accessible and equitable as possible. What struck me during and immediately after the February shoot was the amount of experienced guys in attendance and their willingness to come back again and continue sharing their knowledge (GlockWRX, mmckinley and kaltesherz come to mind). While I don't think the value of the shoot is determined by any one person, we don't want to introduce any perceived "disincentives" if they can be avoided.

There really isn't anything else quite like this shoot in these parts and it's a cool group of guys to boot. Thanks for all of your legwork Gitmo, let us know how we can best be of help.

GitmoSmoke
04-04-11, 14:05
We didn't get a No form the board, but we didn't get a yes either. The board was divided 5 to 5 on letting me reserve the range 4 times a year for $15 range fee per person. Since we were short a person and it was a tie vote the issue was tabled until the next board meeting. The club president was unable to be at the meeting he will be the deciding vote.
The biggest point against us reserving the range is they "don't want to take away shooting opportunities from people who have already paid for a year of membership." As for joining up if we get enough people who will join Iíll find a way to have one of the briefers meet us on a weekend. NRA membership is $25 if you join up through the club and the club gets a kickback from the NRA for signing up more members.
Technically, if we wanted to, several members could just show up and take over the range. It is first come first served, and what we are doing is nothing that the regular membership couldn't do. To me that idea sucks, because I'd be pissed if some bird hunters showed up and decided to take over the trap field for several hours so I couldn't use the pistol bays or rifle range for a whole day.
My feeling is, get as many people to join the club as we can. If we have 10 members all asking for a reservation, it goes more smoothly. I still think we would have to pay a range fee, but at a reduced rate, or have the members be free and non members pay a fee. Another thing I think would help is if any of you can make it to a scheduled match, come and meet the other members. It's allot harder to tell someone NO if they are a nice person. The speed steel matches are a prime example. There is some work to do for set up and tear down, and couple of hours of good shooting. You don't need to be a member for that and have a chance of winning some money. I know I am much more inclined to help someone if they are pitching in and friendly.
Lastly I would like to bring up the hour of instruction for things like first aid and care & feeding of the AR. The more benefit to the club I can bring up can only help us. I know this idea wasnít popular before, but an hour isnít that long and could go a long way for the group.
Speed steel match this Sunday. If anyone is interested Allen and I will be at the Tyee cafť in Coupeville at 0700 if anyone wants to join us for breakfast. Go past the club and turn left at the only real traffic light in Coupeville. The restaurant is on left at the flashing 4 way stop

kaltesherz
04-04-11, 15:11
Ok, I think I'm beginning to understand the situation a bit better (sometimes I'm a little slow, I was born blond) and I'd be willing to join up as well. Right now I'm having a little financial "issue" with the VA so it might be a little while before things get sorted out, but then I'll be able to pony up the cash. I'd still be willing give a class on the AR system but only to smallish groups, I'm not a fan of crowds, especially people I don't know well.

Thanks again Gitmo for going to bat for us and all you do for our group.

GitmoSmoke
04-04-11, 16:15
I wouldn't expect more than 15 people to show up for show and tell IF we decide to do that.

crusader4x
04-04-11, 18:07
I'm trying to work out my schedule so that I can be there next Monday for the new member orientation.

I was about to pull the trigger on the Easy Pay Life NRA membership (40 quarterly $25 payments to equal $1000) but saw that there's an NRA rep at the monthly CWSA members meeting. Would it be best if I wait to join the NRA while at the CWSA meeting also?

Also, I'd LOVE to attend a scheduled match but definitely need more training/instruction before I'd feel comfortable doing so, hence my interest in this PNW training group.

GitmoSmoke
04-04-11, 19:29
Joining the NRA at the club doesn't matter. CWSA gets $10 back from the NRA. I renew that way just to give the club the money. We require that all CWSA members be NRA members because we get huge discounts on liability insurance.
As for the instruction for our regular club matches, I can cover most any situation in a few minutes. Steel shooting is really nothing more than draw and shoot 5 steel plates as fast as you can. 5 times per stage, count the fastest 4 add the time. 5 stages per match. 125 rounds if you don't miss. Classes for CF hand gun and 22 handgun.

crusader4x
04-11-11, 20:26
I wasn't able to make it to the CWSA new member orientation tonight. Woke up yesterday morning sick as a dog. At about 4:00PM this afternoon I dragged myself out of bed, intent on attending the orientation anyway. I got ready and in my car but when I started hacking like a chain-smoking asthmatic (of which I'm neither), I decided that I'd try again next month.

GitmoSmoke
04-25-11, 23:19
Good news for us. CWSA executive board has approved us to reserve a range for 1 weekend day per quarter. We get 2 days on the short range, which is the one we normally use, one on the long range, this can't be late summer or fall. And once for a pistol only day where we get two pistol bays. In the end it was the fact that we kept the place clean and were safe.
Range fees are going to be $15 per person. CWSA membership not required.
So for June we have the 200 yard range reserved from 0900 to 2100. We will be able to run all the same drills we do on the short range and stretch our legs as well.
At least once per year we will have to do two of hours of show and tell for the general membership. No shooting for them is involved, AR maintenance, intro to 3 gun, what everelse we want to do. WE set the topics and schedule.
Sign ups will start soon
Post or PM questions and I'll try and explain my disjointed post.

kaltesherz
04-25-11, 23:27
Awesome news! I'm looking forward to putting the 200yd range to good use...

MookNW
04-26-11, 09:38
That's great. I'm still interested in joining the club. If I do so, will the $15 range fee still apply? My skill-set could really use a pistol only day.

GitmoSmoke
04-26-11, 10:04
Unfortunately the range fee applies to everyone. I don't even get a free spot like I would if I hosted an insights class. Our reservations did bring up an interesting point though. The club is looking at hosting quite a few classes for 2012, and members will get first crack at those .

GlockWRX
04-26-11, 10:08
Cool beans!

Thanks to Gitmo for all the hard work putting this together and being our 'Ambassador' to the board.

Peter Panzer
04-26-11, 10:54
Well done Gitmo - it seems like you negotiated a very nice give-and-take that will benefit everyone. So, who's giving the suppressed rifle show-and-tell?;)

GlockWRX
04-26-11, 11:23
There is a slight possibility I'll be able to give a suppressor show and tell (but not shoot) at the June 25th shoot. Maybe later in the year I could even give a quick class on suppressors (both technical and legal) and invite other CWSA members and count that toward our 2 hour training.

On another note, I know we had discussed doing some CCW pistol work at the next shoot, but does that still hold if we get time on the 200 yard range? Or do we want to spend most of our time shooting at 100 yards and farther?

We could mix it up and spend the morning on CCW type drills then the rest of the day doing longer range work.

What's the preference?

GitmoSmoke
04-26-11, 12:26
I think we should keep the focus on the rifle for this meet with a section on the small back up guns, used in the warmer weather. Sometime in the fall we can schedule a pistol day when it is cool enough to use a variety of cover garments and really see what works for us.

GlockWRX
04-26-11, 16:19
I think we should keep the focus on the rifle for this meet with a section on the small back up guns, used in the warmer weather. Sometime in the fall we can schedule a pistol day when it is cool enough to use a variety of cover garments and really see what works for us.

That sounds good.

Where are we on steel targets? If we stayed 100 yards or more away would they let us use the CWSA targets? We could also have everyone front a damage deposit to offset any potential damage or wear and tear.

GitmoSmoke
04-26-11, 17:01
I'm still working the steel target issue. Right now it's an NO on the CWSA owned steel, and a maybe on ones we bring in.

MistWolf
04-27-11, 12:39
Thanks for putting this together. I'd like to attend

crusader4x
04-27-11, 15:40
Unfortunately the date doesn't work for me but I'd like to be included in future shoots.

Also, I've cleared my schedule to do the new member orientation for the CWSA at the meeting on the 10th.

randyha
04-27-11, 17:42
I'm still working the steel target issue. Right now it's an NO on the CWSA owned steel, and a maybe on ones we bring in.

GitmoSmoke,
I'm in for June 25th.
Can you explain the club's background thinking on shooting steel? I'd like to shoot steel more and would consider purchasing my own but I don't think the club allows that either. Isn't that correct? Are they concerned about safety, equipment damage, etc.? What is the priority of their concerns?

Thanks for all of your efforts.

randyha
04-27-11, 17:44
Double post from Tapatalk deleted

GitmoSmoke
04-27-11, 18:37
Crusader the membership meeting is May 9th at 1800.

Randy, Don't bother buying steel targets to use at the club.
The current rule is NO outside target stands, steel or other reactive targets, junk or trash used as targets, don't shoot the red areas on the frames, etc... Basically bring paper or cardboard targets that you buy or make at home, and put them on the approved provided stands. The steel targets the club owns are used for scheduled matches only, except for the ones in the back room, and those are for use in bay 1 only. I am trying to get the board to approve GlockWRX's EAG rifle rated steel target for use during our scheduled practices. Safety is the biggest reason, followed by expense, and clean up time.
Sign ups will start soon.

GitmoSmoke
04-30-11, 11:40
Signups were supposed to start tomorrow, but I'll be away from the computer all day, so I'll start the list now. Let me know if you are for sure coming or not.

1. GlockWRX
2. Jeff
3. MookNW
4. kaltesherz
5. GitmoSmoke
6. Randyha
7. Piecekeeper
8. PeterPanzer
9. dan1775
10.hookalakapua
11. BooneGA
12. MistWolf
13. Titleist (maybe)
14. Vader (maybe)
15. Stormrider (maybe)
16. mkmckinley (maybe)

The list will stay on this post until June 1st then I'll post it again to keep it near the end of the thread.

kaltesherz
04-30-11, 11:44
I'm in.

vader
04-30-11, 16:56
i supposed to work that day if i can get me shifts covered im in but until further notice is not going to make it.:mad:

Stormrider
04-30-11, 18:31
I would love to go, but won't know until about 2 weeks before whether or not I could. If there is still still a spot then I'll sign up. An added bonus would be to visit with my Mother, who lives the other side of Coupeville. I might go visit her and show up as a spectator if there aren't any spots left.

MookNW
04-30-11, 18:36
I'm in.

Peter Panzer
04-30-11, 21:58
I'm planning to be there.

GitmoSmoke
05-02-11, 13:40
If anyone wants to join CWSA, I can get the membership coordinator to meet us at the club on the 25th as long as we have 6 people who want to join.

dan1775
05-02-11, 23:31
I'd like to get in on this shoot.

I could also bring along my dutch ovens and do some cooking providing it's cool with the club and time permits. Also, if anyone wants to meet in Tacoma or points north I have a SuperCrew truck so I can take three or four more shooters in exchange for splitting the gas and ferry.

I was a USMC grunt in the mid-90's, but both the weapon system and the doctrine has changed so dramatically in the interim I might as well be a beginner. I could benefit greatly from some training/advice.

PieceKeeper
05-03-11, 23:01
In.

Thanks.

MookNW
05-04-11, 00:24
I'm planning on coming on the 9th of May to sign up for the club. If others are willing to commit , I'll wait till the 25th of June.
It'd be nice to get an idea before this weekend as time is a creepin by.

Hookalakupua
05-04-11, 01:21
I'm in! Thanks Gitmo and please let me know if there's anything I can do to help and or bring. I just completed Magpul Dynamics Handgun 2 and Carbine 2 Classes and would love the opportunity to learn from others. Thanks again my friend! - Jason

dan1775
05-10-11, 16:52
I read through the thread, but didn't see a definitive answer: Can steel jacketed bullets be used for this shoot?

I'm thinking of using Tula 75gr for the shoot, assuming my rifle doesn't choke on it. It has a bimetal jacket (steel & copper) and a lead core.

kaltesherz
05-10-11, 16:56
I read through the thread, but didn't see a definitive answer: Can steel jacketed bullets be used for this shoot?

I'm thinking of using Tula 75gr for the shoot, assuming my rifle doesn't choke on it. It has a bimetal jacket (steel & copper) and a lead core.

Steel jacket is fine as long as it's not on steel targets. I use Brown Bear 62gr at every shoot and have had good luck with it (100%), but I'd be a little weary of Tula... just make sure it runs beforehand...

Hell, I didn't even know they made 75gr Tula!

dan1775
05-10-11, 17:02
Hell, I didn't even know they made 75gr Tula!

http://gunsforsale.com/tula-cartridge-works-223-rem-ammunition-for-sale-75-gr-hp-500

I think I'll order 100 rounds of it to see if it runs first, and maybe 100 of 75gr TAP Practice for shooting at steel. I'm a reloader and it kills me to lose brass.

kaltesherz
05-10-11, 17:05
http://gunsforsale.com/tula-cartridge-works-223-rem-ammunition-for-sale-75-gr-hp-500

I think I'll order 100 rounds of it to see if it runs, and maybe 100 of 75gr TAP Practice for shooting at steel.

Thanks for the link, I hope it works better for you than the 55gr stuff I've seen in the past.

MookNW
05-10-11, 23:27
Just went to the Island Range on Monday to join the club. I had a look around with Gitmo and he showed me the pistol bays 1-5. I must say, I am pretty excited about our upcoming pistol GTG (whenever it happens) The 360 bay is bada$$. I also hung out on the 100-200 range where we'll be doing the June shoot. It should add a little positive variety to our meets. Here's a pic of HID237's new lower fresh off the line.
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/1218/bootsshoots036.jpg[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)[/IMG]

okie john
05-11-11, 13:25
SOOO, is there still an option for a pistol-only day? If so, when is that? I'm in Seattle, and I'd love to come over for it.


Okie John

GitmoSmoke
05-11-11, 13:33
We have not scheduled the pistol only day yet. I can say it will be on a Saturday or Sunday in July August or September. I'll tsart a new thread with the open days soon.

okie john
05-11-11, 14:05
We have not scheduled the pistol only day yet. I can say it will be on a Saturday or Sunday in July August or September. I'll tsart a new thread with the open days soon.

Muy bien. Looking forward to it.

Thanks,


Okie John

GitmoSmoke
05-31-11, 19:39
For the range maintenance day we have on the 5th of June I am supposed to be installing 2 steel gongs for the 200 yard range. As long as the others show up with the materials we won't have to walk down range so often.

BooneGA
05-31-11, 23:32
If theres still a slot open I am in.

Rick

GitmoSmoke
06-01-11, 12:24
The list as of June 1st.
1. GlockWRX
2. Jeff
3. MookNW
4. kaltesherz
5. GitmoSmoke
6. Randyha
7. Piecekeeper
8. PeterPanzer
9. dan1775
10.hookalakapua
11. BooneGA
13. MistWolf
14. Vader (probably)
15. mkmckinley (maybe)
16. boxerglocker
17. HID237
We still have room for more shooters.

Stormrider
06-01-11, 12:25
Unfortunately, I have to withdraw. I'll be unable to attend due to work.:mad:

dan1775
06-15-11, 15:26
Can someone provide me with a estimate of rifle/pistol round count? I plan to use steel case ammo, which I will need to order or buy this weekend.

Thanks.

kaltesherz
06-15-11, 18:43
We usually don't go over 250 for rifle and a little less for pistol, but last time ended up having a higher round count, so just to be safe I'd bring 350 rifle and 300 pistol.

Peter Panzer
06-15-11, 23:08
Also bear in mind the late June date will afford those with the time and desire plenty of daylight to practice - much more than the previous February gathering. So, as usual, bringing more rounds than you think you will require is good, standard advice. Water, snacks and dare I hope, sunscreen, might not be bad items to tote along as well.

Did we ever get a sense of what drills folks were interested in now that we have access to the 200 yard range and potentially steel targets?

GitmoSmoke
06-16-11, 10:29
Bring evrything Peter Panzer said, and I'll say knee pads would be very helpful. We didn't have any problems during the Feb shoot since we had snow, but the guys who were here last October remember the rocks that poke up from under the grass. On the long range we don't even have the grass. I put the link to my album at the bottom of the page so those who haven't been here can see the ranges. Camelbaks would be very nice since the only water available is in the club house.
A few pointers for island driving. The Island County Sherriff is very proactive about speeding and tends to give tickets out more to people from off the island, they know you most likely won't come back to contest. South of Coupeville can be very unfriendly to gun owners. If you stop down there make sure your weps can't be seen from outside the car. Cell phone coverage is spotty. You can go from excellent signal to none in just a few yards.
I picked up the meat yesterday. Brisket and pulled pork again, so don't forget your appetite.
https://www.m4carbine.net/album.php?albumid=297

GlockWRX
06-16-11, 11:24
Did we ever get a sense of what drills folks were interested in now that we have access to the 200 yard range and potentially steel targets?

I have a rough series of topics to cover. Mook will have a timer so we'll use that to create some time pressure on certain drills. I have some drills set up for paper and some for steel.

It's looking like right now we'll spend about 2-2.5 hours at 0-50 yards (pistol and rifle), then the rest of the day will be at 100-200 yards.

The only additional equipment you might need are a set of binoculars or a spotting scope, and a pack to rest your rifle on. That's not a requirement, so if you don't have it don't rush out and buy it. If you've got it bring it. I would also bring a folding chair. If we do any IDPA type scenarios later in the day there could be some waiting.

Peter Panzer
06-16-11, 12:01
I have a rough series of topics to cover. Mook will have a timer so we'll use that to create some time pressure on certain drills. I have some drills set up for paper and some for steel.

Good deal and thanks as usual. I have a small 10X-20X scope and would be glad to spot for folks that need it.

Early on there was talk of a GSW/first aid demo (mkmckinley?). If we have folks with the expertise present and there is sufficient interest within the group, this seemed like it had the potential to be a valuable show-and-tell session. I could also bring along a "practice" OLAES bandage for those that are curious.

Thanks again to all those who invested their time into making this happen - it should be another great day.

vader
06-18-11, 00:03
ok well i am about 75% sure ill make it to this shoot. i'm stoked!!! what's with the ride situation people?

MookNW
06-18-11, 10:27
Anyone coming from Seattle or points south and east: For past shoots on Whidbey Island, we've been meeting at a parking lot around Northgate mall to ride together. The lot is at the NE corner of 1st Ave NE & NE 100 st
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=47.701685,-122.327923&num=1&t=k&sll=47.60621,-122.332071&sspn=0.241012,0.512238&gl=us&ie=UTF8&ll=47.701688,-122.32756&spn=0.001505,0.004128&z=19
Around 8 a.m. usually works for most people.
ETA: Anyone with a hi-cap vehicle won't have a problem with gas money, and the karma gods shall shine upon you all day.

dan1775
06-18-11, 17:53
I'll be coming from North Tacoma, and I have a SuperCrew F150. I could accommodate three passengers, possibly even four. I will also have a waterproof tote in the back for gear.

kaltesherz
06-18-11, 18:03
Just my luck, my job is having an mandatory meeting on Saturday, but I should be able to squeeze out by 9:30am so I'll be a couple of hours late.

MookNW
06-18-11, 18:11
Just my luck, my job is having an mandatory meeting on Saturday, but I should be able to squeeze out by 9:30am so I'll be a couple of hours late.
I bet if you went to the meeting in full kit you could save some time!

kaltesherz
06-18-11, 18:15
I bet if you went to the meeting in full kit you could save some time!

They'd also probably waive the ferry fees...

BooneGA
06-19-11, 13:00
Ive got to figure out whose covering HLD response and what the change over days are going to be, but as of right now Im at about 50/50.

Rick

GitmoSmoke
06-21-11, 14:12
Everything is just about ready for Saturday. Target stands have been repaired, and staged. Unfortunately the member with the gongs never showed, so we won't have the steel for this shoot.
I pulled the meat out of the freezer this morning, Thursday it gets the rub, and Friday in the smoker for 18 hours.
I tried to find some support for eliminating the range fees, no luck there, but we are on equal footing with the times the range is reserved for scheduled meets. So don't forget the $15 for the club, and no I can't take debit cards.
I'll have the gate open around 0800 range brief starts at 0830 and we can start shooting at 0900. Not everyone will be able to park on the rifle range lot, but we can use one of the trucks to transport the gear to the range.
We still have room if anyone wants to bring a friend. Let me know if you do so I can keep track of the numbers.

GlockWRX
06-21-11, 14:32
I'm really looking forward to this.

I would advise everyone to have a backpack or something else to use as a rest. We will spend some time shooting prone from a pack at 200 yards.

Also, if anyone has spotting scopes or binoculars that would be helpful. Not required but helpful.

Finally, like always there will probably be a 'shoot around' near the end of the day where we get to show off our gear and try each others stuff. So if you have something interesting or cool to play with, bring it!

BooneGA
06-21-11, 15:35
Got the response situation worked out - ill be there. Ill bring a set of steiners and a crappy spotting scope. Ill try and bust into some of our ISUs and see if I can pull one or two more of the nice scopes out for use. Should be able to secure at least one more.

Rick

PieceKeeper
06-21-11, 18:20
I'll have a spotting scope and binos with me.

Boxerglocker
06-23-11, 00:33
Hey Guys any room for one more? I'm not a professional operator by any means. I have run TAC rifle up at Custer and am actually more at home with the pistol stuff (IDPA/USPSA).

What exactly is the agenda, this coming Saturday? I have to work in the afternoon. But if started early enough would be willing to drive up from Everett to join in.

GitmoSmoke
06-23-11, 00:49
We have room for you. Saturday June 25th. The gate will be open at 0800, safety brief at 0830 and shooting starts at 0900.

Boxerglocker
06-23-11, 00:56
We have room for you. Saturday June 25th. The gate will be open at 0800, safety brief at 0830 and shooting starts at 0900.

I appreciate it. Have to double check my calander for work that weekend. I'll comfirm by Friday.

250 rounds of rifle and 300 pistol right, $20 range fee.... should I bring anything to share? Case of water?

MookNW
06-23-11, 01:20
I'll be riding with HID237 to Whidbey. We have room in his SUV for 2 more probably, and will be at the Northgate Rally point at 7:00-7:15 for an attempt at the 8 am ferry. If anyone wants to ride along they are welcome.

GlockWRX
06-23-11, 10:31
The agenda:

We will start out at closer ranges (7-15 yards) and work on managing the pistol and rifle together (reloads, transitions, barricades), then steadily work our way back to 50 and 100 yards. After lunch, we will spend most of our time at the 200 yard line.

For those guys that are returning, don't worry about the morning part: most of it will NOT be a repeat of what we did last time. There will be a lot of new stuff.

Peter Panzer
06-23-11, 10:38
Do we need targets? While they are nothing in the way of elaborate, I have a stack of 25 yard handgun targets we could make use of.

GlockWRX
06-23-11, 11:27
Do we need targets? While they are nothing in the way of elaborate, I have a stack of 25 yard handgun targets we could make use of.

We're good on targets. I bought about 100 paper targets and a big stack of cardboard targets. Thanks though.

GitmoSmoke
06-23-11, 12:01
As a suggestion I would bring somthing to put on the ground at the 200yd line, the ground is full of small rocks. I would make sure it is something you won't mind getting dirty or worse. Going prone after eating all that BBQ might make for a messy afternoon.:bad:

GlockWRX
06-23-11, 12:19
As a suggestion I would bring somthing to put on the ground at the 200yd line, the ground is full of small rocks. I would make sure it is something you won't mind getting dirty or worse. Going prone after eating all that BBQ might make for a messy afternoon.:bad:

:D

I'll go easy on everyone right after lunch, but it might be a good idea anyway.

Andy, does the 200 yard range have a covered area we could shoot from?

GitmoSmoke
06-23-11, 12:57
Both the 100 and 200 yard lines have covered areas, with concrete pads for the benches. If we shoot from under there we will have to do some rearranging. Do you have any drills planned where we would even need benches? If not I'll have all but 2 of them moved out Friday evening.

GlockWRX
06-23-11, 13:34
Both the 100 and 200 yard lines have covered areas, with concrete pads for the benches. If we shoot from under there we will have to do some rearranging. Do you have any drills planned where we would even need benches? If not I'll have all but 2 of them moved out Friday evening.

No. My plan, if we're able, was to shoot from prone on the concrete pads under the covered areas and also brace against the posts.

vader
06-24-11, 01:38
ok so I couldn't get my saturday night shift cover....what time are we gunna finish up. I have to be at work at 9pm. im still game to come shoot if we are don't at a decent time.

M-Bear
06-24-11, 07:37
I would love to come but have a previous commitment at North Whidbey Sportsman. Is there anyone in Island or Skagit that trains on tactical rifles?

GlockWRX
06-24-11, 08:33
ok so I couldn't get my saturday night shift cover....what time are we gunna finish up. I have to be at work at 9pm. im still game to come shoot if we are don't at a decent time.

If we stick to the schedule I have set up, we will finish by 4-4:30. I have to leave about then, but you guys can keep shooting until Gitmo kicks you out.

GitmoSmoke
06-24-11, 12:08
We have the range reserved untill 2100. I'll stay as long as the ammo holds out.

vader
06-24-11, 12:29
sweet! I'll be there $15 bucks in hand! how's the weather looking?

GitmoSmoke
06-24-11, 13:00
Low 60's and partly sunny. If anyone is coming in early, RandyHa and I will be at the range doing set up at 7pm.
Vader bring an extra $5 for the BBQ if you are staying for lunch. 2 pork shoulders and a brisket in the smoker as we speak!

vader
06-24-11, 13:04
HOLY HELL how could i have forgotten about the grub?!

dan1775
06-24-11, 16:57
Apologies to all, but I won't be bringing my dutch ovens as originally anticipated. I had planned the purchase of a larger oven (one that could cook a dozen+ biscuits at once), but I didn't get the bigger oven yet. Unfortunately to make enough biscuits in my existing ovens would require two-three batches and that's not workable given the constraints of our shoot.

Peter Panzer
06-24-11, 17:47
Lord have mercy, vader forgot about Gitmo's signature BBQ and somehow I missed this gem...


...bringing my dutch ovens as originally anticipated.

I absolutely love the burgeoning culinary theme to this shoot!:D Seriously dan, that's a pretty cool offer. We will definitely need you and your HSLD bakeware during the next February shoot.


Low 60's and partly sunny.

Told ya'll to bring sunscreen.:p

Looking forward to meeting everyone again and getting in a solid day of practice!

MookNW
06-24-11, 19:05
The suv busted. I can take a +1 in the olds.

vader
06-24-11, 22:21
I'll be at the park and ride @ 8am if anyone wants a ride cool but I'm leaving early ish for work.

Boxerglocker
06-25-11, 01:56
Man totally bummed.... I'm out guys :(

Just got home from work and have to report back 2 hours earlier (Noon) than originally planned tomorrow.

I was looking forward to be able to making this but gotta earn the greenbacks. Please keep me abreast of the next outing. Maybe I'll make the all pistol shoot.

MookNW
06-25-11, 08:41
I can take a +1 in the olds.

I'll be in a creepy white van 7-7:15 N-gate

Stormrider
06-26-11, 17:12
I got to show up after all. However, I didn't have any gear so just came to watch. MookNW was gracious enough to loan me a rifle and let me have some ammo. Vader let me have some ammo too. Great guys!

kaltesherz
06-26-11, 17:20
I showed up late but just in time to bloody up my elbows (urban prone es no bueno) and get my BBQ pork on. As always I had a great time, got some good training in but also got to shoot the shit with the usual M4C PNW crowd with a few new faces. Thanks to Andy for getting the range for us, Jason for leading the drills, and everyone else making it a good time.

GlockWRX
06-26-11, 21:11
I had a great time on Saturday. Great people, great food, great facility, great weather. Can't beat that. Looking forward to the next one.

PieceKeeper
06-27-11, 03:10
Travel/Weather
It was overcast in Seattle when I headed out on the drive to the ferry at 7AM. There were a few sprinkes and I had my fingers crossed the entire time that it would either hold or get better. The ferry sucks and is expensive but it's a quick ride to the island. So, once on the island, which did not require a cavity search to get there in case you were wondering, my hopes for a Summer sun shoot were dashed as it started poooring rain. But aparently, miracles do happen or it's just the manic weather of the northwest but it cleared up about a mile and a half from the range and got warmer then hotter and sunnier as the day progressed. I'm a little burned but it was well worth it. What an awesome day.

Range
We were on the 200 yard range this time. It was marked off with white barrels and spraypaint on the ground at 50 yard intervals. I've only ever shot at short indoor ranges. I gotta say, 200 yards is a long way off to me. I'll be saving up for a quality spotting scope for the next time.

Shooters
It was a much smaller group than we had at the snow shoot. About half the amount of people as the last one. 10, give or take? And no, it's not because we accidentally shot the others at the last meet either (although I can't confirm this). This is a great bunch of guys that I'd be happy to shoot with again anytime. Thanks for the fun and I'm looking forward to the pistol shoot in Sept. For those of you who couldn't make it, you'll have to read and use your imagination. Sorry.

My Kit
My kit consisted of my Crossbreed Supertuck that I wear daily, I brought a Bladetech light bearing holster with me but didn't use it. I wanted to practice my pistol as I wear it eveyday. Everyone else was wearing an OWB holster. I saw two Ravens, two leathers and a bunch of Bladetechs and maybe a Safariland. I had my double mag pouch and added a couple of Bladetech AR mag pouches on my leather belt. My cargo shorts pockets were used for extras and empties. I wore tennis shoes and a baseball hat. Let's just say I was "business casual" for this event. I started with a Tactical Tailor 2 piece MAV (6 rifle/3 pistol) but ditched that as soon as I realized Gitmo's truck wasn't for shooting at but instead we were using it to move gear up and down range. This setup worked well for what we were doing. I could have tried harder to remember my knee/elbow pads though.

My Pistol
It was the maiden voyage of my new carry gun, a Gen3 Glock 19, 4.5# factory connector, NY1 spring and Defoor black sights. The trigger is still heavy but the pull and reset are really crisp compared to both the Lone Wolf 3.5# connector modified spare Glock 19 I have and the S&W M&P9 FS I recently sold. I'm going to match this setup on my spare now. Oh, and I'll have to keep reminding myself that slide bite is my friend.
Pistol Ammo
I started with Speer Gold Dot JHP to check the feeding but for the remainder of the day ran Wolf 115gr "military" ammo. I was thinking if it was going to screw up, it was going to screw up with this combination of ammo. Hollow points that I carry with and crap ammo.
Pistol Failure
No FTF's/FTE's. Good deal. Ok, there was one but it was user error. On transition, Click, no bang, no round in the chamber...oops. I told myself I wasn't going to let that happen.

My Rifle
My custom Daniel Defense 14.5" AR was wearing new glass. A Trijicon 1-4 green dot german reticle in a LaRue mount. Fantastic setup. Fast aquisition at close range, smiley face and nipples at 50 and headshots at 200 yards. Purchased this in hopes it would work better with my astigmatism (spell?) and I'm glad I did. It's got a really small dot so it doesn't blob out and the crosshairs are helpful, acting as kind of a backup for the dot. The Aimpoint H1's will stay on my backup/loaner rifles and AK's.
Rifle Ammo
Primarily Wolf 55gr, some PMC 55gr. I was thinking the Wolf would suck at distance but it did exactly what it was supposed to. I had brought 500 rounds of federal just in case it couldn't handle 200 yards well but I never used it.
Rifle Failure
Only two problems, first was either an overloaded PMAG or the steel case ammo causing the first round to not strip off all the way and jam on the bolt release. I'm actually thinking a combination of both. If you've ever overloaded a PMAG, you know it's tight and this cheap Russian steel case ammo was grainy, like sandpaper on the casing. For some reason, this .223 "military" stuff is not nearly as smooth as the Wolf standard 7.62x39 I've run in my AK's. The second was user error...again. Ensure mag is inserted and round in chamber prior to starting a timed match with prize. Check. I will remember from now on. I felt like I was that guy whose mag fell out in the Magpul video. It's probably still on the ground near the 50 somewhere. Stupid tan mags.

Morning Drills
We started the day with some pistol to get us warmed up. A little bit on draws and then some one handed reloading and shooting. Good stuff.

It was then time to bring out the big guns and work transitions in, with and without slings. We tried multiple different ways to stow the rifle while switching to pistol, including one that would allow the utilization of the weapon light on the rifle in case you didn't have one on your pistol. This was achieved by holding it straight out in front of you. It was a little freaky feeling the muzzle blast from the pistol pushing past my weakside thumb and it was cumbersome.

At some point along the way we covered transition to pistol with one handed pistol reload and shooting. That was cool. Not a scenario I'd want to be in. It was fun to run through.

We also practiced transferring and shooting the rifle from strong side to weak side, then using the barricades. This was ultimately to show the importance and utility of having a quality [adjustable] two point sling (thank you for the design, Mr. Vickers). I think just about everyone was running a Vickers sling.

Then there was a bit on different prone positions, strong and weak side while using the barricades to get an idea of the how uncomfortable they are to shoot from and when you'd need to use each. Glad we did this before lunch. The crouching, upside down, ass up position would have sucked on a full stomach.

Lunch
Then lunch and this is where things really start to get fuzzy. Between the sun and after eating Gitmo's awesome food, I'm really going to have to think hard about it. I'll have to finish this up in a part 2.

vader
06-27-11, 05:37
all i have to say is 200 yrds with a glock 19 3 times whoa!

randyha
06-27-11, 11:55
Huge thanks to GitmoSmoke for great food and facilities (he does a lot for these events that goes unseen), and to GlockWRX for leading some great training! We went through some fun and challenging scenarios. His planning and leadership was fundamental for the rest of us being able to practice, learn, and have fun safely. Thanks to the CWSA Executive Board for allowing this type of event at the club. Finally, thanks to to the rest of the group for a fun day of shooting and comradery.

kaltesherz
06-27-11, 12:00
all i have to say is 200 yrds with a glock 19 3 times whoa!

With at least 1 head shot and 1 neck shot.

Gotta be the 'stache.

GlockWRX
06-27-11, 12:12
Gotta be the 'stache.

Indeed. I think Mitch deserves a patch (http://milspecmonkey.com/store/patches/harden-up) for his skill at arms.

Peter Panzer
06-27-11, 12:14
It looks like piecekeeper has the detailed recap in check so, suffice to say, Gitmo and GlockWRX delivered yet another worthwhile afternoon.

A good mix of activities this time around that seemed to keep everyone engaged and provide sufficient challenge for the wide spectrum of experience levels present. I really appreciated being forced to work through new situations, especially the one handed secondary transitions, a challenge initially compounded by my gift of cross-dominance. The addition of more movement/barricade centric exercises and the timed/scored CoF were nice variations as well.

It bears repeating that this is a great set of guys. The group continues to be fortunate to include both practiced civilian shooters and a few current/former military participants with "downrange" experience. All of which lends itself to a good balance of positive modeling, focus and fun.

Finally, congrats to GlockWRX for earning the best score on the final CoF. I have a M4carbine.net t-shirt (L) waiting for you at the next get together. Wear it with pride, use it to clean up new puppy spills or both - the applications are endless!

So, the question becomes, will vader be compelled to trick-out his G19 with an ACOG, two point sling and a mortgage worth of Magpul stuff after his display at 200yrds.?

GlockWRX
06-27-11, 12:27
Finally, congrats to GlockWRX for earning the best score on the final CoF. I have a M4carbine.net t-shirt (L) waiting for you at the next get together. Wear it with pride, use it to clean up new puppy spills or both - the applications are endless!


Score!

vader
06-27-11, 13:21
I require a custom patch with the monkey sporting the handle bar. I am only gunna scrap the cheap plastic rear sight for somethin else.

GitmoSmoke
06-27-11, 23:20
Once again thanks to everyone who showed up. With such a great group of shooters it makes it easy for me to keep hosting events here. I got back from the board meeting tonight and we received a well done from everyone.

MookNW
07-02-11, 00:08
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Eric Kozowski
07-11-11, 23:14
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4161/junes027.jpg


Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the point of getting down behind cover, if you're going to stick half of your body out from behind it?

GitmoSmoke
07-12-11, 01:30
The barricade is designed to give the most possible shooting positions in a piece that is still portable, and easy to make. We use these barricades to simulate all kinds of cover or concealment. Lying parallel to the cover is used to shoot around the corner of a building, or to get lower to the ground if shooting under an obstacle.
No training aid is perfect.

BooneGA
07-12-11, 09:09
In addition, the object of that course of fire was to simply try out different prone positions that would allow you to fire through the bottom holes regardless of where your body ended up. Dont try and sharpshoot stuff without the full backstory as that is the way your comment came across.

Rick

Rayd8
07-12-11, 09:25
Great photos and thanks for the AAR. Looks like I need to plan a Seattle trip....