View Full Version : Home Defense/Tactical Shotgun?
NightFighter
09-15-07, 18:02
I have been looking around at rifles and recently starting looking at shotguns for home defense and/or CQB. Wondering if anyone has any suggestion on what shotguns would fill the bill for both home defense and/or CQB? Thanks in advance.
Depending on your budget... but MOST rich to poor go:
Remington 870
18.5" barrel with rifle sights, no bead sight.
no mag extension or a plus 1
Wilderness Single Point sling or Spector
6 round side saddle
Hogue short stock
done.....fini.....ja......
Jorgy
toddackerman
09-17-07, 17:58
I have been looking around at rifles and recently starting looking at shotguns for home defense and/or CQB. Wondering if anyone has any suggestion on what shotguns would fill the bill for both home defense and/or CQB? Thanks in advance.
My setup after doing 4 over time.
Remington 870 w/ 18.5" Rifle Sighted" Barrel (Most prefer "Ghost Ring Sights, but I am so much more precise, and as quick with Rifle Sights)
Remington/ Speedfeed "Youth Stock" (shorter length of pull and easier to operate gun for most)
4 Shell Side Saddle
1-2 shot extension. (Some think 2 makes the gun too front heavy...I don't)
Vang High Visibility Stainless Steel follower
Vang oversized safety.
Blue Force Gear Single Point Sling, H&K hook attachment at the front of the stock area where it mates with the receiver.
I SHOULD have a Surefire lighted forend on it, but $250 isn't in the budget right now. I believe any weapon used for home defnse which would probably be reached for at night, should have a light.
Loaded with Federal 00 Tactical Buck Shot. There atre many opinions on this size of load, but it's what I am using.
Tack
NightFighter
09-17-07, 20:24
Depending on your budget... but MOST rich to poor go:
Remington 870
18.5" barrel with rifle sights, no bead sight.
no mag extension or a plus 1
Wilderness Single Point sling or Spector
6 round side saddle
Hogue short stock
done.....fini.....ja......
Jorgy
What makes the Remington 870 better than other shotguns? I would like to have some criteria to use when I look at other shotguns.
NightFighter
09-17-07, 20:25
My setup after doing 4 over time.
Remington 870 w/ 18.5" Rifle Sighted" Barrel (Most prefer "Ghost Ring Sights, but I am so much more precise, and as quick with Rifle Sights)
Remington/ Speedfeed "Youth Stock" (shorter length of pull and easier to operate gun for most)
4 Shell Side Saddle
1-2 shot extension. (Some think 2 makes the gun too front heavy...I don't)
Vang High Visibility Stainless Steel follower
Vang oversized safety.
Blue Force Gear Single Point Sling, H&K hook attachment at the front of the stock area where it mates with the receiver.
I SHOULD have a Surefire lighted forend on it, but $250 isn't in the budget right now. I believe any weapon used for home defnse which would probably be reached for at night, should have a light.
Loaded with Federal 00 Tactical Buck Shot. There atre many opinions on this size of load, but it's what I am using.
Tack
Thanks for sharing your setup with me. At least now I have a starting point to work form when I research my shotgun setup.
What makes the Remington 870 better than other shotguns? I would like to have some criteria to use when I look at other shotguns.
Well I believe the 870 is a superior plateform due to a few "extras" over the standard pump action shotguns (in the price range):
You get twin action bars (vs 1, which helps guide the pump together and reduce/eliminate the chance of the single bar binding/bending), a reciever that milled out of a single sollid billet of steel, and a thicker barrel over what is given to other shotguns (such as the Mossy). If you get a Wingmaster you get a steel trigger guard and a smoother action. I really don't see the big issue of the trigger guard... but steel is better. The action WILL get smother in an Express the more you use it... but its smoother then most others to begin with.
The only downfall i see in the 870, but its more of an opinion, is the placement of the safety. A safety such as the Mossy's would be better/faster... but thats a personal thing... which I've gotten over and all my pumps are 870's.
Not to mention the HUGE aftermarket for the 870.... over a 9 million owners can't be wrong.
I don't care of the slight forward balance of the +2 extension... thats not really the reason... its not supposed to be a trap gun! LOL.
The reason I and many others, don't recommend the +2 over the +1 extension is because you weaken it (MUCH easier to break), and how many shots do you really need? I'd rather know that I've got my 4 or 5 +1 rather then a 6+1 that might leave me with simply 1 because the end broke off, dumped all my shells on the ground, and now I've only got my chambered round.
IF you do go with a +2 extension though... go with the Wilson Combat +2 and take off the sling mount. DON'T use it. It will only stress the extension even more. Thats why I recommended the single point sling.
If you go with the Houge overmolded short stock you get to do a 6 shell side saddle vs. a 4 shell saddle. Not to mention it is really really comfy and helps to give you a GREAT grip. If you have to walk/run, while slung the shotgun will bounce a bit... the overmolding helps to coushin hits on your knee should it hit, and not hurt as much.
Just a few things I've noticed.... buts its your money and up to you.
Jorgy
Don Robison
09-18-07, 09:52
The Remington 870 or Mossberg 500/590 are both fine weapons. I prefer the Mossberg because of the safety location since I'm a lefty and it's more user friendly to offside transitions. The mossberg is lighter, the Remington is "beefier" I prefer the lighter weight. All Mossbergs are chambered for 3" if it matters, I prefer 2 3/4" so it's lost on me, but some like them. Remington makes 2 3/4" and 3" guns rather than just standardizing to one size.
Both come with dual action bars, both have a huge aftermarket accessory list. I prefer to keep mine simple, a bead sight, a hard mounted 5 shell side saddle on the butt and a light source. I also add a sling as needed.
My current favorite a a 14" 590 kit I put on a 500 receiver. 5+1, excellent balance, light enough to carry for long periods, but heavy enough to not pound the snot out of you during extended shooting. YMMV it's just my $.02
toddackerman
09-18-07, 09:58
The Remington 870 or Mossberg 500/590 are both fine weapons. I prefer the Mossberg because of the safety location since I'm a lefty and it's more user friendly to offside transitions. The mossberg is lighter, the Remington is "beefier" I prefer the lighter weight. All Mossbergs are chambered for 3" if it matters, I prefer 2 3/4" so it's lost on me, but some like them. Remington makes 2 3/4" and 3" guns rather than just standardizing to one size.
Both come with dual action bars, both have a huge aftermarket accessory list. I prefer to keep mine simple, a bead sight, a hard mounted 5 shell side saddle on the butt and a light source. I also add a sling as needed.
My current favorite a a 14" 590 kit I put on a 500 receiver. 5+1, excellent balance, light enough to carry for long periods, but heavy enough to not pound the snot out of you during extended shooting. YMMV it's just my $.02
I also have had the Mossy 590 with 20" Barrel, Mag Extension, Ghost Ring Sights and Sure Fire Forend. I probably put 500 rounds of 80% Practice Loads (#8 Shot), 15% 00 Buck, and 10% Slugs.
It performed very well, but the plastic safety started giving me some difficulties in engaging near the end before selling it. Other than that, It was a pretty good gun.
Tack
Don Robison
09-18-07, 10:21
I also have had the Mossy 590 with 20" Barrel, Mag Extension, Ghost Ring Sights and Sure Fire Forend. I probably put 500 rounds of 80% Practice Loads (#8 Shot), 15% 00 Buck, and 10% Slugs.
It performed very well, but the plastic safety started giving me some difficulties in engaging near the end before selling it. Other than that, It was a pretty good gun.
Tack
I replace all of my safeties with metal ones if they don't come with them. It seems to be a hit or miss item with Mossberg, even with the models cataloged as having a metal safety. They are cheap($10-$12) insurance. I have manged to crack every plastic safety button I haven't replaced immediately within about 500 rounds. I have that same 20" model as well, it's a nice shooter, but the shorter barrels are quicker on follow up for me and I haven't noticed any diminishing accuracy out to 40 yards.
Just a thought. Personally I'd go with a 14" barrel and pay the for the stamp. My 18" 870 is just to clumsy I stick to Ar's at this point until I put a 14" barrel on my scattergun.
NightFighter,
Make it easy for yourself man.
Get an 870 w/ an 18" barrel from the factory and a light.
DONE
THEN... when you decide what you need.... go ahead and do so.
A "tacticool" shotgun is one that you use tactically.... therefore there's no such thing... its just a tool.... therefore there are no "tactical hammers"
This should have been the first thing I wrote, but I just told you the way "I" like my shotgun for the function that "I" use it for.
Jorgy
I have been looking around at rifles and recently starting looking at shotguns for home defense and/or CQB. Wondering if anyone has any suggestion on what shotguns would fill the bill for both home defense and/or CQB? Thanks in advance.
- Remington 870 Police Magnum or Wingmaster, new or used.
- 18" (or shorter) with bead sight, preferably Tritium
- Short stock (Remington youth size works for me)
- +1 or 2 extension
- 00 Buck, currently using Federal Tactical 8 shot (LE133-00)
- TRAINING! :)
Good luck!
That FN pump shotgun with the AR extendable stock and the C-More site is pretty nice
NightFighter
09-19-07, 05:16
That FN pump shotgun with the AR extendable stock and the C-More site is pretty nice
Thanks for the hyperlink to the forum. I looked at the FN Police Shotgun and from what the website said it sounds like a good shotgun. I will have to look into it more and see what others have to say about it. Do you know if there are as many after market vendors for this shotgun as for the Remington?
Stay away from the C-More. The one I had was very difficult to zero - no tactile clicks, just kind of a slight wiggle then locked down with the set screw. One I had it zeroed (close enough), it refused to keep the zero for more than 20 rounds of .223, I imagine 12ga would beat it up in nothing flat.
On the FN pistol grip shotgun, the slide release is really hard to reach, at least with my thumbs, and the action is pointlessly gritty. I'd stick with either a 590 or 870.
That collapsible AR stock is just about the least comfortable piece of furniture you could possibly install on a shotgun, IMO. I tried it once and immediately went back to my standard buttstocks.
However, the FN shotgun itself is not a bad choice. Basically a clone of the Winchester 1300. I'd still take an 870 or 590, though. I've been abusing 870's for a couple of decades and have yet to break one.
For home defense I prefer a short SGN over a short AR primarily due to the effect of muzzle blast on unprotected ears indoors. Make no mistake, a shotgun is loud, but it's different. If it was just me, it'd be the Rem 870 12ga. For the wife's sake, it's her Mossberg 500 20ga with stock shortened to 'youth length', 4 rd. side saddle & a large silver bead on the muzzle end. Chose Mossberg 20ga over Rem 20ga as I've found some issues with the Rem 870 in 20ga not being quite as reliable as the Rem 12ga.
John Fettes
11-11-07, 20:04
- Remington 870 Police Magnum or Wingmaster, new or used.
- 18" (or shorter) with bead sight, preferably Tritium
- Short stock (Remington youth size works for me)
- +1 or 2 extension
- 00 Buck, currently using Federal Tactical 8 shot (LE133-00)
- TRAINING! :) Good luck!
I have an 18" 1976 vintage 870P, with a factory +2 that is currently off of the gun. It had a bead on the barrel which has been covered with a 24/7 tritium front sight.
There is a difference between the Wingmaster/Police/Marine Magnum 870's and the cheaper guns. Search here, the AR15, or the 10-8 forums for the details. If you must get a magazine extension, the factory version is hard to beat.
Some buyers seem to find good deals on used police guns; carried a lot but shot very little.
I have had the use of 870P's for duty guns for many years. They all ran very well. My favorite was a 14" which was excellent for moving in and out of vehicles, and in the narrow hallways of a residence.
John
PS I also put on a shorter stock vs. having the original cut down.
toddackerman
11-12-07, 23:20
Thanks for sharing your setup with me. At least now I have a starting point to work form when I research my shotgun setup.
Finally got the SF Forend. Now I think I'm GTG!
Tack
toddackerman
11-12-07, 23:29
Well I believe the 870 is a superior plateform due to a few "extras" over the standard pump action shotguns (in the price range):
You get twin action bars (vs 1, which helps guide the pump together and reduce/eliminate the chance of the single bar binding/bending), a receiver that milled out of a single solid billet of steel, and a thicker barrel over what is given to other shotguns (such as the Mossy). If you get a Wingmaster you get a steel trigger guard and a smoother action. I really don't see the big issue of the trigger guard... but steel is better. The action WILL get smother in an Express the more you use it... but its smoother then most others to begin with.
The only downfall i see in the 870, but its more of an opinion, is the placement of the safety. A safety such as the Mossy's would be better/faster... but thats a personal thing... which I've gotten over and all my pumps are 870's.
Not to mention the HUGE aftermarket for the 870.... over a 9 million owners can't be wrong.
I don't care of the slight forward balance of the +2 extension... thats not really the reason... its not supposed to be a trap gun! LOL.
The reason I and many others, don't recommend the +2 over the +1 extension is because you weaken it (MUCH easier to break), and how many shots do you really need? I'd rather know that I've got my 4 or 5 +1 rather then a 6+1 that might leave me with simply 1 because the end broke off, dumped all my shells on the ground, and now I've only got my chambered round.
IF you do go with a +2 extension though... go with the Wilson Combat +2 and take off the sling mount. DON'T use it. It will only stress the extension even more. Thats why I recommended the single point sling.
If you go with the Houge overmolded short stock you get to do a 6 shell side saddle vs. a 4 shell saddle. Not to mention it is really really comfy and helps to give you a GREAT grip. If you have to walk/run, while slung the shotgun will bounce a bit... the overmolding helps to cushion hits on your knee should it hit, and not hurt as much.
Just a few things I've noticed.... buts its your money and up to you.
Jorgy
The Vang safety is fater than the Mossy. I've had both. The large button automatically lets you release the safety from the firing grip. The Mossy requires that you put your thumb on top of the receiver to activate it.
IF you get a Vang 2 shot extension, i can pretty much guarantee that it won't ever break. It's as solid as "Sears" used to be. :)
The 4 shot side saddle is more than enough IMHO, and keeps the weight down. It's the one recommended by experts like Rob Haught, along with the single point sling, SureFire forend, and reduced LOP stock..
Don't screw around with the FN pump, it's a repackaged Winchester 1300.
Remington 870. The Mossy 590's aren't terrible, but the 870 is still the king of the pumps.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Night%20Fighter/Nightfighter001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Tim_Orrock/Night%20Fighter/Nightfighter004.jpg
Here's my HD shotgun:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/889657/Saiga_S12_CAA.JPG
Saiga S12 19" barrel. A 5 rd mag loaded with 00 buck and another 10 rd mag in a bug out bag hanging near by. Light mounted on the foregrip with a pressure switch on the left side.
Jim
m24shooter
11-23-07, 11:10
590A1 and 930 SPX
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/m24shooter/930SPX590A1wm.jpg
Here's my HD shotgun:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/889657/Saiga_S12_CAA.JPG
Saiga S12 19" barrel. A 5 rd mag loaded with 00 buck and another 10 rd mag in a bug out bag hanging near by. Light mounted on the foregrip with a pressure switch on the left side.
Jim
Very nice! Who did your conversion? What forend/rail are you using? I like the foregrip with light, too.
I just got a Saiga-12 and am looking at getting it converted vs. trying the job myself.
Jake
TheWarHound
12-30-07, 13:40
As far as shotguns go, for HD, I prefer my Mossy 590A1. Love the ghost ring sights, love the 8+1 capacity, the heft and balance, the +6 rounds on the sidesaddle, and the +4 rounds in the speedfeed stock.
I love 870s, have owned a few, and have a gorgeous 870 Wingmaster I use for clays and birds and crows. Had a 870 MP, and when I took it and the Mossy out and shot them, and decided to keep the Mossy, and swapped off the 870.
Now, my latest shotgun project is a SuperNova Tactical shotgun . . . I think I like the 3 1/2" 00 Buck round for home defense. I have the shotgun with pistol grip, going to pick up (or swap for) the ghost ring bbl, and add the GR rear sight. Add a sidesaddle . . . it never ends!
Steve
friedcheese
12-30-07, 15:28
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/FRIED303/shotgun.jpg
Remington Marine Mag 870 18" Barrel.
SureFire Dedicated light forend.
VangComp Safety.
(Wilson Combat) ScatterGun Spring and HiViz follower
(Wilson Combat) ScatterGun +6 side saddle.
(Wilson Combat) ScatterGun Tritium Ghost sights (front and back).
SpeedFeed Pistol Grip +4 Stock.
GG&G Stock side sling point.
Excatly 9lbs without ammo.
What would "I" do different after spending so damn much on this beast?!
A normal 'non-pistol grip' stock - SpeedFeed 4+ mag stock. Like Templars picture above.
I think I'll be selling this stock that's on it now....
This was my answer to your question when I ask the same question. :)
ps- never-ever heard of the two round mag extension 'breaking' off....
Century has nice used 870's with 20" barrel and rifle sites for under $200 deal cost just FYI.
Very nice! Who did your conversion? What forend/rail are you using? I like the foregrip with light, too.
I just got a Saiga-12 and am looking at getting it converted vs. trying the job myself.
Jake
I have done a few Saigas. I have never seen that brake before.
Looks like the Saiga forearm Copes sells with a rail.
Century has nice used 870's with 20" barrel and rifle sites for under $200 deal cost just FYI.
Century who?
I use a Ithica M87 that has had a M37 deerslayer barrell installed somewhere along the way, and love it.The bottom eject was a little odd, since I have used a 16 gauge 870 to hunt with, for the last 25 years .
Since this thread did mention rifles I also keep ready (don't laugh) A Winchester 94 trapper .44 mag with '16 barrell,it is fast,light and holds 9 big .44 mag rounds .I think my home is well protected.
Century who?
Century Arms
John Fettes
01-16-08, 05:56
I use a Ithica M87 that has had a M37 deerslayer barrell ... I also keep ready ...A Winchester 94 trapper .44 mag with '16 barrell,... .44 mag rounds .I think my home is well protected.
I think so!
John
I am almost regreting buying a Super Nova Tactical...not because of quality or how it performs but because accessories are a pain in the ass to find. I still can't find a sling and I have the same issue with my FN SLP Mark I. They are both excellent Guns but no aftermarket accessories.
Anyone have suggestions on Slings for the Above mentioned Shottys? :confused:
CryingWolf
07-16-09, 14:58
I have a 930 SPX I traded a 1100 and some change for. I like it very much. Working on making a side saddle work now.
590A1 and 930 SPX
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/m24shooter/930SPX590A1wm.jpg
m24shooter
07-17-09, 11:33
I have a 930 SPX I traded a 1100 and some change for. I like it very much. Working on making a side saddle work now.
I got fed up waiting for Mesa so I went with TacStar.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/m24shooter/930%20update/930saddlemodwm.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/m24shooter/930%20update/930spxwm.jpg
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a391/m24shooter/930%20update/930saddleoblqwm.jpg
CryingWolf
07-19-09, 21:35
:D I picked up a TacStar because of your SPX. I caught your articles on Weapon Evolution. Thanks M24shooter for sharing all your hard work on this fine auto-loading shotgun.
I sort of messed up though, I didn't pick up the TacStar side saddle for the 870 but one for a Mossberg so I will have to drill and tap two holes to make it fit.
iceman0085
08-01-09, 09:40
I am not the owner of a hd shotgun yet but I will buy one in a few months. Either an remington 11-87 or on benelli m1. Buying an pump action shotgun is not possible because here in my Country (Austria) pump action shotguns are prohibited since 1996 . That's an odd law because semi auto shotguns..:rolleyes:
If you have to choose between a Remington 11-87 and a Benelli M-1, then I would take a serious look at the M-1.
I have seen way more problems with the Remington autoloaders than the Benelli line.
Recoil operated shotguns are much more reliable than gas operated models.
If you would like an example, take a look at what type of shotguns are being used in Argentina where people shoot literally thousands of birds daily. The vast majority of hunters there are using some type of recoil operated shotgun.
In addition, Berretta also makes a HD type shotgun called the 1201 FP and it is similar to the Benelli but lower in cost (downside, less accessories available/ Berretta owns Benelli now).
There is also a company from Turkey producing a recoil operated shotgun very similar to the Benelli, but at a lower price. It might be Stoeger or Charles Daly, I don't keep up with shotguns as much anymore. But a little searching on the web should provide some additional information for you to consider.
Good Luck with your search. Try to shoot as many shotguns as you can before making-up your mind. Personally, I have shot all the variations of the Remington Autloaders, the Benelli M-1, and the Berretta 1201 FP. I prefer the Benelli. Also, if you are slight of stature (or a young person or female may use gun) or recoil sensitive. You should know that the recoil operated shotguns have a more pronounced amount of recoil, especially with high base loads, buckshot, or rifled slugs.
SkiDevil
If you are wondering what kind of shotgun I prefer, it is the Remington 870. It has been the most reliable shotgun I have ever used. My current SG is the Wilson's Combat Standard Model 870.
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/SkiDevil01/P1000337.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/SkiDevil01/P1000341.jpg
Remington 870 Express 'tactical' or Rem 870 Police
Mossberg 500 'Persuader' or a 590
Just a thought. Personally I'd go with a 14" barrel and pay the for the stamp. My 18" 870 is just to clumsy I stick to Ar's at this point until I put a 14" barrel on my scattergun.
I agree. The 14" is the bees knees.
iceman0085
08-02-09, 01:15
@SkiDevil Thx for informativ answer. You helped me a lot.:)
might get a mossy myself...but, after watching "public enemies", tempted to get a lever-action shotgun. maybe a charles daly lever-action?:D
My primary HD gun (longgun) is a 12G Remington 1100 w/ 18" barrel. My other 1100 is a trap gun with a round count in excess of 15,000 and its never skipped a beat. With an extended magazine tube it holds 7+1 and its a devastating weapon. Nothing wrong with a pump gun - I own several of em but my preference is for the semi. Why pump when you can simply pull the trigger as fast as you like?
I also have had the Mossy 590 with 20" Barrel, Mag Extension, Ghost Ring Sights and Sure Fire Forend. I probably put 500 rounds of 80% Practice Loads (#8 Shot), 15% 00 Buck, and 10% Slugs.
It performed very well, but the plastic safety started giving me some difficulties in engaging near the end before selling it. Other than that, It was a pretty good gun.
Tack
Difficulties in engaging? What do you mean? What is the plastic piece it self or it it loosen up and loose how positive it was?
You really can't go wrong with a Remington 870 or Mossberg 590. As for barrel length, shorter is better for maneuvering in confined spaces. An extended magazine tube is not a bad idea to add.
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