View Full Version : shame on you Local gunshop
philipeggo
03-04-11, 12:44
Going to Louisiana Sunday and needed a cheapish IWB holster. I go to my local gun shop because i thought they carried galco,DeSantis etc. get there only uncle mikes and fobus. Mind you this is not my normal gun store i had already called them and they told me there were out. Long story short start looking around and see a DPMS sportical then i peep the price tag ...$1100. Anyone else finding it harder and harder to find an honest decent gun place? Thankfully this is not where i normally go and my dealer would never dream of selling a DPMS at that price. Just find it frustrating is all.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-04-11, 12:48
It's simple economics really. If people continue to pay that price for a DPMS, then gunstores will continue to make money. Consumers need to be educated in order to drive the market, the seller will only do what the market dictates.
It's simple economics really. If people continue to pay that price for a DPMS, then gunstores will continue to make money. Consumers need to be educated in order to drive the market, the seller will only do what the market dictates.
Also keep in mind that a lot of gun stores overshoot the price they would take with a "that guy doesn't know what he's buying and will pay the price tag for it" price. That way they may get lucky and make a huge profit, or they let you haggle down to their realistic price and they still make a profit and you feel like you got a great deal with all the haggling. You go tell you friends how great the gun store is for being "pushed over" with your haggling skills, so they go in and do the same thing. Everyone wins, except for the ill-informed buyer who pays sticker price, but where would we be without so many dummies in the world, anyways.
Anchor Zero Six
03-04-11, 12:56
+1
There is a huge local shop in a location close to a BIG software company owned by a guy named Gates...never heard of him lol
Anyways this shop is selling MWS on sturm for 2300 but locally for 3000, why because his local clientel will pay it.
Finding a good local shop is getting harder and harder. I went into a newer one the other day to stock up on some ammo. I had about ten cases of various stuff ready to purchase and then I ask if they have any MK 318 MOD 0 in stock. The guy laughs in my face and says "thats not even a real caliber of a weapon, you have some learning to do SON...":suicide:
I turned and left immediatly without purchasing my ammo. Told everyone I know in the gun world to stay away.
His loss not mine...
It's simple economics really. If people continue to pay that price for a DPMS, then gunstores will continue to make money. Consumers need to be educated in order to drive the market, the seller will only do what the market dictates.
Yep. In a free market, goods are worth whatever you can get for them.
I turned and left immediatly without purchasing my ammo. Told everyone I know in the gun world to stay away.
I don't blame you. I'd rather do without than support a jagoff like that guy.
Yeah, I love going into a local shop here and seeing stripped DPMS lowers for $150....
Going to Louisiana Sunday and needed a cheapish IWB holster. I go to my local gun shop because i thought they carried galco,DeSantis etc. get there only uncle mikes and fobus. Mind you this is not my normal gun store i had already called them and they told me there were out. Long story short start looking around and see a DPMS sportical then i peep the price tag ...$1100. Anyone else finding it harder and harder to find an honest decent gun place? Thankfully this is not where i normally go and my dealer would never dream of selling a DPMS at that price. Just find it frustrating is all.
The words "honest" and "gun dealer" don't go together I am afraid.
We talk customers out of expensive chit they either don't know how to use, don't need or is not going to "fix" their problem. The look on their face when you just saved them $500 dollars is priceless! :dirol:
C4
jklaughrey
03-04-11, 13:57
I saw a DPMS lower for 225.00 just the other day. I asked if he had any LPK's and he said no we don't carry any German Rifles! WTF!:suicide:
philipeggo
03-04-11, 14:31
I saw a DPMS lower for 225.00 just the other day. I asked if he had any LPK's and he said no we don't carry any German Rifles! WTF!:suicide:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
jklaughrey
03-04-11, 14:36
In the BubbaFudd's defense I did just use only the acronym. But he blurted that out before he would allow me to elaborate. Figured this was not the place to purchase anything except a good laugh.
I live in a small town. Only gun stores here are Pawn shops. Anyway, they carry a few generic new but a buttload of used pos, wore out, downright dangerous rifles. No ar's but plenty of SKS and the like. I mean wore out, beat to hell. I had my latest ar shipped there and when I went to pick it up they were selling this young black kid an SKS. Not new, not refurbished. No. It looked like it had been through 3 wars and buried in someones backyard for 30 years or so. He got a hellofadeal. Only 450 and that included a 30 rd mag that was so used it had holes in it.
Going to Louisiana Sunday and needed a cheapish IWB holster. I go to my local gun shop because i thought they carried galco,DeSantis etc. get there only uncle mikes and fobus. Mind you this is not my normal gun store i had already called them and they told me there were out. Long story short start looking around and see a DPMS sportical then i peep the price tag ...$1100. Anyone else finding it harder and harder to find an honest decent gun place? Thankfully this is not where i normally go and my dealer would never dream of selling a DPMS at that price. Just find it frustrating is all.
As a contrast to this, we have some NIB DPMS low-pro style rifles on the shelf for $629. A guy asked to see one last night and I looked @ the price tag and was like WTF? I still wouldn't buy it, but that's pretty cheap. The fudd customer was convinced it was a "deal" and he would never buy the "overpriced" KAC we had on the same rack. Whatever...
As far as holsters go, you wouldn't have much more luck in our shop. We rock the Fobus, Uncle Mikes, and...wait for it...Blackhawk Serpa!!!! In reality, though, I don't see how any shops actually justify stocking quality holsters. That's a lot of inventory $ to tie up in what is almost certain to not be right (Color, RH vs LH, IWB vs OWB, Kydex, Leather, Nylon)
Grant, what holsters do you stock in your store and how do they move (not counting online sales)?
I don't blame you. I'd rather do without than support a jagoff like that guy.
Hell yeah. Took my business down the road...
leroyswift
03-04-11, 15:16
I befriended a local shop owner upon his opening last june. I helped him here and there and i got discounts and alot of first dibs. At first his prices couldnt be touched even by the internet. Pmc .223 bronze at $4 a box and golden bear 7.62x39 for the same. I bought many guns from him (prob 8 or 9) and traded countless times. but after Christmas i started noticing increases across the board and less value to be found. I asked him one morning why? why the rising costs and changing methods of business. He simply replied "Im tired of getting screwed and walked on, now its my turn to trample and screw". Needless to say I dont frequent this establishment much any more except when I see some retired friends posted up talking. The old time way of conducting business has been stifled by the ability to sell on the internet and not even have a store front. Times they are a changin'.:fie:
Belmont31R
03-04-11, 15:25
The majority of gun stores suck. I stay out of them with rare exception.
you'd think in larger cities like Dallas, we'd be ok, we're all gun totin rednecks down here :p
But its the same old same old. i took it upon myself to take a lesson because I am a self taught pistol shooter. I asked for recommendations from my local IDPA/IPSC group. I got a lot of recommendations for a guy at the local gun store. So I signed up, and absolutely blew me off and handed me off to one of his buddies. I've been in their multiple times and most of the time I try and discuss, but they are mostly trying to get me to buy a kimber.
I took my CHL there and the instructor was a Glock guy. I couldn't get him to talk to me about a glock during the break....
They have decent prices, but i'm treated like an animal there. Get in, buy what we tell you, get out.
Others around are friendly, but highly priced and I ran into the "good ol boy" who tried to tell me why 45 was better than 9, even after I told him I'd been hanging out with "you guys" And of course he had a story. I politely listened and turned and walked away...
I did find one guy locally who was willing to talk to me, show some differences between different S&W snubbies and take the time to talk to me. He sold me a ruger. (and showed me how to do a trigger job!) I was more than happy to give him the commission as I just need someone who doesn't treat me like an idiot (that's what I hang around you guys for!). I find it is the older guys who generally take the time to explain things and actually know their you know what from a hole in the ground. Its not all of them, but most of the time, if the salesman looks like my dad or grandpa, that's the guy i want to talk to.
Grant, what holsters do you stock in your store and how do they move (not counting online sales)?
Let's see, I currently have Raven Concealment, Safariland, Blade-Tech and for custom leather, we use this company: http://www.gun-holsters.com/links.html
We sell VERY few holsters in our store as most people around us cannot afford the guns we sell let alone the holsters for them. ;)
C4
Haven't bought anything from a b&m gun shop in a long time. I buy virtually everything gun related on the internet. No tax and it's easier to shop around.
The old time way of conducting business has been stifled by the ability to sell on the internet and not even have a store front. Times they are a changin'.:fie:
This is very true. I have no idea how mom and pop shops stay open without online sales (I know we wouldn't make it in our location).
C4
Paraclete comes
03-04-11, 15:41
It seems as if very few people value the local store and will prefer to buy online. Which I can say half the time I do myself if Im for sure I know what I want offline. However there's something nice about being able to fondle the gear and see it in the flesh. Sometimes I pay a bit more knowingly just to support the local guy, not going to get killed but a few extra bucks you know.
my buddy in Fresno owns a pretty big shop and they stock alot of quality leather holsters. Stuff like Galco, Bianchi, CrossBreed, Fobus, BladeTech, etc. Im sure they do have a ton of money tied up in that stuff but you always know where to go. I hate buying IWB's with out fitting them or seeing them in person. So for me I really appreciate that kind of service. I make it a habit to buy stuff there whenever I go home. Not only because its a friend but because the service they have provided our community over the years is excellent.
Most of this thread only tells one side of the story. Stores had to pay inflated prices for their stock during The Panic and their retail prices reflect that. When it was over, they were stuck with a pile of over-priced stuff. This situation is exacerbated by the fact that internet suppliers were able to react to the drop in market price faster than the brick & mortar stores. There are B&Ms still stuck with over price firearms, parts, ammo & accessories.
When THCDDM4 asked for MK 318 MOD 0 and was told "thats not even a real caliber of a weapon, you have some learning to do SON...", the dealer was right. It's not a caliber, it's a stock number. It's the same as walking in and asking for a box of Q3130, R3006AF or X3085. Sure the tone was condescending but no worse than he would have gotten from m4carbine for asking which OlyMaster carbine has the best features.
There are good gunshops, bad gunshops and gunshops that fall somewhere in between. That's half the fun, sorting them out. No matter where you go, Folks are folks
Storys like these are going to make me miss Virginia Arms Co very much when I move this summer. They are a very good store with a so-so armorer!!!:D
jklaughrey
03-04-11, 16:10
Storys like these are going to make me miss Virginia Arms Co very much when I move this summer. They are a very good store with a so-so armorer!!!:D
Robb? You here?:D
Prices are crazy at the stores now. When I was about to order my Troy Ind rail (7") I found one at a CVolorado springs store...for $250. The guy working the counter told me if I wanted the best I would have to pay for it hahaha. Sorry but a $100 mark up is a little crazy to me
jklaughrey
03-04-11, 16:21
Prices are crazy at the stores now. When I was about to order my Troy Ind rail (7") I found one at a CVolorado springs store...for $250. The guy working the counter told me if I wanted the best I would have to pay for it hahaha. Sorry but a $100 mark up is a little crazy to me
Why pay for the expensive hooker for a BJ, get the cheaper one. You aren't going to see her face anyways!:D That is my analogy of most B&M gunstores as of late, with the exception of a few. I will buy from Grant, Paul, SKD, Rainer, etc w/o ever seeing their "face".
MistoGators
03-04-11, 16:22
Most of the gun shops around Atlanta are pretty bad. "The brands are the same, a Bushmaster or DPMS is just as good as a Colt, you're just paying for the name, etc".
Being 63, I remember how it was from the late 60s on - in Arizona and Idaho. Even then you'd come across good gun shops and smiths but it always changed and you'd start over. And it was much harder to stay on top of models and prices so the deals that were out there were trickier to find. But it did seem to be more fun to stop in, look around and compare prices. One shop here in Idaho I used to frequent has gotten so bad I doubt I'll ever give them a chance again due to poor selection and high prices.
Anyway, it's so much better for the buyer today, online comparison/purchasing has shifted the power to the consumer with any smarts. Sad for B&M businesses that haven't evolved but we have to use all the resources available to us.
Why pay for the expensive hooker for a BJ, get the cheaper one. You aren't going to see her face anyways!:D That is my analogy of most B&M gunstores as of late, with the exception of a few. I will buy from Grant, Paul, SKD, Rainer, etc w/o ever seeing their "face".
You sir, win the internets for today.
Although I might get thrown off the forum if I ask anyone to wear "Chef's pleasure bag":p
jklaughrey
03-04-11, 16:43
You sir, win the internets for today.
Although I might get thrown off the forum if I ask anyone to wear "Chef's pleasure bag":p
Are you kidding, the bag, 2 condoms, and a bottle of hooch are off duty gear loads for Okinawa.
It seems as if very few people value the local store and will prefer to buy online. Which I can say half the time I do myself if Im for sure I know what I want offline. However there's something nice about being able to fondle the gear and see it in the flesh. Sometimes I pay a bit more knowingly just to support the local guy, not going to get killed but a few extra bucks you know.
my buddy in Fresno owns a pretty big shop and they stock alot of quality leather holsters. Stuff like Galco, Bianchi, CrossBreed, Fobus, BladeTech, etc. Im sure they do have a ton of money tied up in that stuff but you always know where to go. I hate buying IWB's with out fitting them or seeing them in person. So for me I really appreciate that kind of service. I make it a habit to buy stuff there whenever I go home. Not only because its a friend but because the service they have provided our community over the years is excellent.
Which is why prices are so high in the stores and why they feel like they get screwed. What are we going to do when there is only the ass hat kitchen table gun dealers who charge $300 to do paper work........
The internet has changed the entire retail sales dynamic. But not just for being able to find things cheaper.
The amount of information available is astounding which brings me to my point:
How are so many salespeople SO uneducated on the things they sell?
I have been in sales for 12 years. I have always made it a point to be an absolute expert in the products I sell for fear of ruining my credibility with the customer. And being in medical sales there is NO room for error.
When I am in the market for a new type of firearm I first look for places like this forum and read a ton of magazines and books. Then I go to gun stores and ask them questions I already know the answer to and see if they are full of crap. If they "checkout" I will consider doing business with them.
I do this with EVERY major purchase I make (guns, TV's, cars, etc). Now if they don't know the answer to something and say it, I am still OK with it. But most just BS you.
When I started selling in my industry a wise manager of mine told me "If you get asked a question and don't know the answer, don't be afraid to just say you don't know and get back to them" "But never guess or BS. Credibility is hard to get and easy to lose in this industry."
There is a shop in the city I live in that carries pretty much all of the brands you see recommended on this site. It's nice to be able to go in and handle stuff in person before buying anything. The staff is generally pretty helpful as well. However when it comes time to buy, the price in that store is often so much higher over internet pricing that I cannot justify giving them my business. I definitely would not mind paying a few more dollars to support my local business/es and to have the item I want right now vs. having to wait for it in the mail, but the price difference is almost never "a few more dollars."
The internet has changed the entire retail sales dynamic. But not just for being able to find things cheaper.
The amount of information available is astounding which brings me to my point:
How are so many salespeople SO uneducated on the things they sell?
I have been in sales for 12 years. I have always made it a point to be an absolute expert in the products I sell for fear of ruining my credibility with the customer. And being in medical sales there is NO room for error.
When I am in the market for a new type of firearm I first look for places like this forum and read a ton of magazines and books. Then I go to gun stores and ask them questions I already know the answer to and see if they are full of crap. If they "checkout" I will consider doing business with them.
I do this with EVERY major purchase I make (guns, TV's, cars, etc). Now if they don't know the answer to something and say it, I am still OK with it. But most just BS you.
When I started selling in my industry a wise manager of mine told me "If you get asked a question and don't know the answer, don't be afraid to just say you don't know and get back to them" "But never guess or BS. Credibility is hard to get and easy to lose in this industry."
That's funny because that's a habit I developed when I was putting together my home theater/surround sound system. Now it's a regular thing I do and I've learned the hard way that most salesmen are not knowledgable about the things they sell, no matter what type of product/s they sell.
That's funny because that's a habit I developed when I was putting together my home theater/surround sound system. Now it's a regular thing I do and I've learned the hard way that most salesmen are not knowledgable about the things they sell, no matter what type of product/s they sell.
Yes, electronics are a great example.
Cars may be the best though.
I did find a store near me that has higher end AR's and components. One slow day when I was in, all three guys working the store were showing me there DD rifles.
When I asked what makes them better than a Bushmaster they just kept telling me "better craftsmanship" but couldn't give me one single intelligent answer.
rubicon1000
03-04-11, 20:28
A good buddy of mine called earlier today He was at a local gunshop and wants an AR pretty bad. He wanted to know if a dpms was worth 1139.00 I told him I would sell him my bushmaster for a grand. So it looks like I'll be making the step up sooner than I thought.Thanks to you guy's I'll be a lot more informed this time.
Whootsinator
03-04-11, 20:49
A good buddy of mine called earlier today He was at a local gunshop and wants an AR pretty bad. He wanted to know if a dpms was worth 1139.00 I told him I would sell him my bushmaster for a grand. So it looks like I'll be making the step up sooner than I thought.Thanks to you guy's I'll be a lot more informed this time.
Buddies don't sell buddies $1000 Bushmasters.
Yes, electronics are a great example.
Cars may be the best though.
I did find a store near me that has higher end AR's and components. One slow day when I was in, all three guys working the store were showing me there DD rifles.
When I asked what makes them better than a Bushmaster they just kept telling me "better craftsmanship" but couldn't give me one single intelligent answer.
Cars would be a good example. They have always been caveat emptor. If you don't know what you're looking for, or if you rely on the people whose job it is to sell you stuff for info, chances are you are gonna get screwed.
They are kinda shooting themselves in the foot if they don't have more material than "craftsmanship", perfect time to wow people with "staked gas keys" and "magnetic particle inspection". :P
Fuzzy-Reticle
03-04-11, 20:53
There is a shop in Lakewood, CO trying to sell a used WASR 10/63 for $800?! WTF! I saw that and walked out.
Robb Jensen
03-04-11, 21:00
Storys like these are going to make me miss Virginia Arms Co very much when I move this summer. They are a very good store with a so-so armorer!!!:D
You can always mail me stuff to hammer on dude. I'll be sure to use my biggest baddest BIG F***ING HAMMER it fixes everything!
The words "honest" and "gun dealer" don't go together I am afraid.
We talk customers out of expensive chit they either don't know how to use, don't need or is not going to "fix" their problem. The look on their face when you just saved them $500 dollars is priceless! :dirol:
C4
I see most gun dealers as a mix between "Comic Book Guy" on the Simpsons and a used car dealer, but when do you cross the line of being dishonest and just having no business sense?
I buy from you a fair amount. To be honest there are some things that you have really good prices on and others not so much, but I've never seen you price anything that I would consider silly or stupid.
There is a large shop by my folks that my Dad and I usually window shop when I am home on leave. They have had the same two Colt 6920s and the same two DD M4s in there for over three (3) years. $1,900 for the Colts, $2,100 for the DDs. Why? They aren't even preying on anyone, just letting guns collect dust.
From a seller's standpoint, is there any rhyme or reason to this?
You can always mail me stuff to hammer on dude. I'll be sure to use my biggest baddest BIG F***ING HAMMER it fixes everything!
Even in doing that Robb I think the work would still be head and shoulders above anyone else in the aera. :big_boss: Thanks for everything !!
There used to be a really knowledgeable guy who owned a shop near me and had great deals. He knew a lot about AR's,1911's and ton about fishing stuff. His prices were only slightly higher than online so I bought a lot from him. He would also match most peoples prices on guns and had a great business with local LE.
The problem was he was a slob and his store was a disaster with crap everywhere.
One night a group a hoodlums from 2 towns over smashed a car through the front door and stole a ton of weapons. The investigators were super pissed at his record keeping and he was out of business shortly after.
I guess you just can't win.
The investigators were super pissed at his record keeping and he was out of business shortly after.
I guess you just can't win.
You can win by keeping good records
I believe all of us here are "gun snobs". We are the minority! I spend half of my day at the shop explaining why the Taurus Judge is NOT the best personal defense handgun and the other half explaining why Bushmaster is NOT a real AR. People look at me like I'm speaking in tongues. I guarantee that if I put a complete BCM next to a Shrubmaster most people would buy the Bushmaster. My boss stocks what people ask for. He knows that it is inferior but it's what sells.
You can win by keeping good records
By "you" I meant "us". Referring to finding an all around good gun shop.
By "you" I meant "us". Referring to finding an all around good gun shop.
Oh, well in that regard you are spot on.
Prices are crazy at the stores now. When I was about to order my Troy Ind rail (7") I found one at a CVolorado springs store...for $250. The guy working the counter told me if I wanted the best I would have to pay for it hahaha. Sorry but a $100 mark up is a little crazy to me
I think I know what store you're talking about. I like that they have a large selection of things, but these days I go in there just to get hands-on, then go someplace else to get a good deal on exactly what I'm looking for.
There is a good store here locally that I now purchase things from. One of the reasons that I will go there before other local gun stores is that they seem to truly care about getting the right product for the needs and wants of the customer.
It means something to me that the proprietor of a store cares more about getting the right tool to the customer rather than his profit margin.
leroyswift
03-05-11, 01:46
I believe all of us here are "gun snobs". We are the minority! I spend half of my day at the shop explaining why the Taurus Judge is NOT the best personal defense handgun and the other half explaining why Bushmaster is NOT a real AR. People look at me like I'm speaking in tongues. I guarantee that if I put a complete BCM next to a Shrubmaster most people would buy the Bushmaster. My boss stocks what people ask for. He knows that it is inferior but it's what sells.
I own a bushmaster. Quality and workmanship are one thing and there are better quality AR's but the truth is if it came down to an emergency situation the person(s) threatening you will never know nor care what upper/lower you have or if your rifle has a carry handle or not ; he will only be concerned with the damage dealt.
I own a bushmaster. Quality and workmanship are one thing and there are better quality AR's but the truth is if it came down to an emergency situation the person(s) threatening you will never know nor care what upper/lower you have or if your rifle has a carry handle or not ; he will only be concerned with the damage dealt.
And YOU will be concerned if your rifle fails to function in this hypothetical emergency situation (notice the "if").
Again, no is saying that Bushmaster rifles will experience a 100% failure rate. However, their failure rate is higher than a number of competitively priced brands that have superior components. Any rifle can fail, however, there's no reason enter a fight with worse odds if you can help it.
Quality and worksmanship aren't just one thing, IMHO; they are of extremely high importance for a firearm that may one day be used to defend your life.
I own a bushmaster. ... he will only be concerned with the damage dealt.
=======================
That might be the other guy's concern but your concern should be whether or not your gun will work, continue to work, and not poo-poo in the bed when you need it most, etc....
.
leroyswift
03-05-11, 02:09
Well I reckon its all in what you want. I agree quality and craftsmanship are important i meant they are one thing as in another topic. If i have the chance im grabbing my AK. Maybe that's my problem i was a die hard AK owner first before having an AR.
SuperiorDG
03-05-11, 09:44
“When I die and go to hell, the devil is going to make me the marketing director for a cola company. I’ll be in charge of trying to sell a product that no one needs, is identical to its competition, and can’t be sold on its merits. I’d be competing head-on in the cola wars, on price, distribution, advertising, and promotion, which would indeed be hell for me. Remember, I’m the kid who couldn’t play competitive games. I’d much rather design and sell products so good and unique that they have no competition.”
Yvon Chouinard, Founder and Owner of Patagonia
With this economy and customers chasing a number these quality minded business are becoming few and fair between.
R3V3LATIONS
03-05-11, 09:57
You guys think that is bad...
I went to a gun shop (known for price rape) that thrives on it being the only indoor range in the area...unfortunatley. Well one of the guys that works there says in response to the LAV DDM4, "Larry Vickers doesnt impress me...he is a hack/fat" And I was too enraged to even reply to that. Funny thing is...same guy LOVES the 416....but owns a bushmaster. Sometimes, stupid is just too hard to fix. Gun stores, with the exception of a few, are in a state of nationwide suckage it would seem. Pity, b/c they are supposed to be a place to gain knowledge and a place to converse with others that share an interest...
rubicon1000
03-05-11, 10:21
Buddies don't sell buddies $1000 Bushmasters.
He was gonna spend the money somewhere. I tried steering him to the chart and no go, so hopefully when he learns more we'll still be freinds.
SuperiorDG
03-05-11, 10:31
b/c they are supposed to be a place to gain knowledge and a place to converse with others that share an interest...
That is because salespeople are cheaper to hire then experts.
That is because salespeople are cheaper to hire then experts.
SPOT ON!!!!
Cesiumsponge
03-05-11, 11:07
Plenty of gun shop sales staff are worse than car sales staff. Only in a gun store could you be considering Brand A and the sales person will tell you how great Brand B is because they own one and why you should avoid Brand A because of <insert some imagined catastrophic thing>. A Ford dealer would never tell you that he drives a Mercedes and if you buy a Ford, the engine will explode after a 500 mile trip and the drive shaft will impale your face. At the end of the day, they're still sales staff. Many don't even have remedial sales skill to feel out what you know and don't know, then attempt to feed you information where you're lacking to make a sale. Most will just outright make bold sweeping statements with a straight face and expect you to kowtow.
Unfortunately I've found a lot of stores carry cheap/knockoff lasers/lights/optics which makes me question the target demographic of their customers. At the same time, a shop like Rainier Arms (local to me) carries nothing but top tier EBRs and optics in their showroom, and they probably don't get a lot of lookie-loos that drop $2k on a rifle and another $3k for glass on a whim so from a business perspective, Internet sales are pretty much a requirement to augment local sales. Those of us fortunate enough to live locally to some of the good companies are lucky because the education and purchasing experience there are not typical.
I think I know what store you're talking about. I like that they have a large selection of things, but these days I go in there just to get hands-on, then go someplace else to get a good deal on exactly what I'm looking for.
There is a good store here locally that I now purchase things from. One of the reasons that I will go there before other local gun stores is that they seem to truly care about getting the right product for the needs and wants of the customer.
It means something to me that the proprietor of a store cares more about getting the right tool to the customer rather than his profit margin.
Youre talkin about the one on Academy right. And yes, being able to hold anything from a SCAR to an AUG etc. Its an amzing store. Literally ANY pistol or rifle you want. I dont blame you goin somewhere else to get a good deal lol.
I see most gun dealers as a mix between "Comic Book Guy" on the Simpsons and a used car dealer, but when do you cross the line of being dishonest and just having no business sense?
I buy from you a fair amount. To be honest there are some things that you have really good prices on and others not so much, but I've never seen you price anything that I would consider silly or stupid.
There is a large shop by my folks that my Dad and I usually window shop when I am home on leave. They have had the same two Colt 6920s and the same two DD M4s in there for over three (3) years. $1,900 for the Colts, $2,100 for the DDs. Why? They aren't even preying on anyone, just letting guns collect dust.
From a seller's standpoint, is there any rhyme or reason to this?
You hit on some key points. Most gun dealers are to be viewed like you would a used car salesman. Most dealers are also VERY poor businessmen.
We try to operate around a certain profit margin. With some companies, I have a super duper account that allows me to discount the item heavily, but still make enough money to pay the bills. Some things, not so much.
I am after the customer that appreciates my knowledge/expertise and is willing to pay a little more for it. I would prefer to not deal with the bottom feeding customers that want everything at your cost, shipped for free with 24/7 CS.
One of the things that most consumers don't realize about the gun industry is that profit in guns SUCKS! If can make 10% on a gun, I am usually thrilled! So I sell guns in the hopes of selling an optic, rail or sling. People also forget that we don't work for free. You don't work your job for free, so don't ask your online or local dealer to do it either (not that you do this).
C4
People also forget that we don't work for free. You don't work your job for free, so don't ask your online or local dealer to do it either (not that you do this).C4
Spot on. I worked in a shop in the 80's early 90's. Basement FFL dealers were abundant. Some folks would come to our store, handle the merchandise, suck every last drop of information out of you, waste an hour of your time when you could be in the back being creative, and then run to the basement dealer to save a few bucks. Shortly thereafter they'd come back to have their new toy registered as per state law. Not a spot of remorse about their MO. The perfect storm of basement dealers, the Brady Bill, assault weapons ban and the shit economy conspired to close our doors in '95. I made just enough money to get by, but damn I loved that job...
Oh, and I forgot to add, your AR choices back then were Colt or Bushmaster. Sales between the two were about evenly split.
Robb Jensen
03-05-11, 12:34
Spot on. I worked in a shop in the 80's early 90's. Basement FFL dealers were abundant. Some folks would come to our store, handle the merchandise, suck every last drop of information out of you, waste an hour of your time when you could be in the back being creative, and then run to the basement dealer to save a few bucks. Shortly thereafter they'd come back to have their new toy registered as per state law. Not a spot of remorse about their MO. The perfect storm of basement dealers, the Brady Bill, assault weapons ban and the shit economy conspired to close our doors in '95. I made just enough money to get by, but damn I loved that job...
Oh, and I forgot to add, your AR choices back then were Colt or Bushmaster. Sales between the two were about evenly split.
I see this quite a bit except instead of a going to a basement dealer they go on the internets and buy some crap from an unknown dealer or heaven forbid the 'gun show'. Then they come back a few weeks later because their POS doesn't run or wonder why their AirSoft Fakepoint/FakeAssTECH won't hold zero......ignorance is bliss, but stupid should hurt.
Cesiumsponge
03-05-11, 16:10
"Buy once, cry once" is usually a lesson forged by pain, headache, and remorse. Certain things aren't worth fussing a few bucks over but most folks abide by instant gratification.
"Buy once, cry once" is usually a lesson forged by pain, headache, and remorse. Certain things aren't worth fussing a few bucks over but most folks abide by instant gratification.
Nice. Thats true. I am in a business where I deal directly with the public. I can relate to this. But I also see the other side, I like people...but when people are buying something and they become "customers" its a whole different story. They get whiny and nit-picky and just plain rude. Its like they forget their manners and are only concerned about themselves and nothing else matters. Its ridiculous at times what people "expect".
"Buy once, cry once" is usually a lesson forged by pain, headache, and remorse. Certain things aren't worth fussing a few bucks over but most folks abide by instant gratification.
Very true. I really hate buying something, then end up not using it because it turns out it's not what I really wanted.
Off topic, but related, I don't currently have a TV. I'd like one, but I cannot afford the one I want. My friends & co-workers give me strange looks when they find out and tell me "You could get one for around $300 until you can get the one you want." They just don't get it that to me, the TVs I see for $300 aren't worth it. I'd wind up never watching it and the money would be wasted. I'd rather spend that $300 on ammo, a Fal kit, or more parts for my AR build. When I can afford the the TV I want, I'll buy it then. I can wait. In the meantime, I'm happy watching Netflix on the computer. This is how I feel about most of my purchases. It also explains why I buy used Jeeps for $1500 and fix them up instead buying a new rig, with monthly payments, that I'd want to change anyway
I've experienced the same in my small town. A few years ago when I bought my bushmaster(I know everyone here don't seem to like em but to each his own) I went 3 minutes down the road and seen the same one I just bought for $800 for $1100 at another gunshop. No difference same style upper, same barrel legnth, same everything bone stock. Such a shame!
jonconsiglio
03-05-11, 18:42
Our local shops have $40 and $50 transfer fees. One of them had a used SR15 for $2,250, which is on par for that shops pricing. I'm a business owner and understand needing to make your money, but sometimes people take it way too far.
With the amount of money I spend on guns, they could have made a lot off of me if their pricing was at all in line. Instead, I buy it all online. A number of others I know do as well because of the local pricing. I'd really like to give my business to a local shop, but when I can buy a Nighthawk, for example, for $500 less and without the tax, it's hard to spend it there when their idea of working with you is 1 or 2% off.
a DPMS sportical then i peep the price tag ...$1100. Anyone else finding it harder and harder to find an honest decent gun place?
Sad. I was in a store today that wanted $36 for a pound of Bullseye powder. I was in a store yesterday that wanted $19.99 for the same thing.
Youre talkin about the one on Academy right. And yes, being able to hold anything from a SCAR to an AUG etc. Its an amzing store. Literally ANY pistol or rifle you want. I dont blame you goin somewhere else to get a good deal lol.
There's one on Academy?
I was talking about the one that charges $1200 for a Bush XM15, located on Fountain Blvd.
Here's the attitude that I heard today from one of their employees:
Customer (not me): I'm really just looking for a cheap set of BUIS.
Employee: What you see is what we got. (employee just walks away at this point)
I see all kinds of BUIS behind the glass, so I tell the guy a little about the different brands, and then I notice that the Magpul MBUS has a sticker saying $79 for the rear only.
I understand mark-up, profit margins, and overhead. I also understand about charging what people will pay. Because I understand these concepts, I actually shop elsewhere.
MistoGators
03-05-11, 23:35
Not a gun shop, but gun shows are even worse. I went to a huge one today in the Atlanta area. Someone had quite a few orc DPMS rifles for $700 - or as they put it, "Colt quality at half the price". :eek:
Local gun stores have a rough time of it. One small shop just had to stop carrying guns, because he's not big enough to buy enough guns to get better pricing with a lot of companies. People go to a big store 45 minutes away to save $30, where you can hardly get an employee to talk to you without waving money in the air. Some of their flyers advertise prices that he can't buy guns for, let alone figure in any kind of profit. So now if you want a gun from him he has to order it in, which is basically where I was at before with him.
It makes me want to open a small gun store that primarily deals with online sales and keep a small storefront, but I don't think I'd make enough money in the area to justify a retail location.
Leonidas24
03-06-11, 07:17
Not a gun shop, but gun shows are even worse. I went to a huge one today in the Atlanta area. Someone had quite a few orc DPMS rifles for $700 - or as they put it, "Colt quality at half the price". :eek:
There's a big gun show going on here in Wichita this weekend; I went yesterday and walked out with 500 rds of Brown bear ($85) and a DD BCG ($130). It's been hit or miss lately at the gun shows from what I've seen. Of course there's the dealers that are peddling DPMS for out the ass prices but then there's also the guys that know M16 bolt carriers don't require a class 3 license, that's who I look for. One gentleman even mentioned the chart yesterday, I bought the DD BCG from him. :D
SuperiorDG
03-06-11, 08:22
"Buy once, cry once" is usually a lesson forged by pain, headache, and remorse. Certain things aren't worth fussing a few bucks over but most folks abide by instant gratification.
I'm going to have to use this. After reading through this thread and posting a few commits it has me thinking. I run a custom shower door company and had a call yesterday. The lady says she went to HD and they quoted her a price and now she's looking for something "cheaper". This word really pisses me off. She said it again and I almost hung up. I've leaned that the cheap customers are a pain in the ass and usually not worth it. "You see, lady, cheap isn't quality and quality isn't cheap." The best part about owning a business is that you can fire your customers.
wetidlerjr
03-06-11, 08:41
Not a gun shop, but gun shows are even worse. I went to a huge one today in the Atlanta area. Someone had quite a few orc DPMS rifles for $700 - or as they put it, "Colt quality at half the price". :eek:
Well, they got it half right. :D
.
I helped run a gunshop years ago and the only reason we sold new guns was for trading. With guns, we made the bulk of our money on used guns and used scopes. I walked-in to gun shows just to buy guns and would always come back with 8-10.
Accessories (cleaning, mounts, scopes, slings, etc.) were our biggest money maker. It was a simple adage – “there were more people with $5 in their pocket than $20, more people with $20 than $100,…”, so we tried to make it where if you came in the shop there was something you "needed" that you could afford.
As a “gun shop”, I think Cabelas is pretty crummy. I have more cleaning variety in my work shop than they do. They have $20,000 guns but a Mickey-Mouse assortment of gun cleaning supplies. For their size, Wal-Mart has a better selection…and I hate WM.
But maybe it's just me...
.
There's one on Academy?
I was talking about the one that charges $1200 for a Bush XM15, located on Fountain Blvd.
Here's the attitude that I heard today from one of their employees:
Customer (not me): I'm really just looking for a cheap set of BUIS.
Employee: What you see is what we got. (employee just walks away at this point)
I see all kinds of BUIS behind the glass, so I tell the guy a little about the different brands, and then I notice that the Magpul MBUS has a sticker saying $79 for the rear only.
I understand mark-up, profit margins, and overhead. I also understand about charging what people will pay. Because I understand these concepts, I actually shop elsewhere.
Oh youre right. Thats my bad. The huge place right? Ya I have only been a few times. Its right off south academy kinda? Anyway were talkin about the same place. A few weeks ago when I was tryin to get the Troy rail, I was gonna buy another Troy folding sight...but not for $170. Thats a little ridiculous. And that was after me and a friend waited for 20 minutes for help.
I have ONE shop i go to, which also happens to be an indoor pistol range. SOME of the employees are up to speed on stuff...most are not. Like the two that told me the green tipped x-tac pmc i bought WASNT steel cored....ya right..me = "you sure this isnt m855 stuff?, most green tipped stuff is penetrator ammo.." lol.
I basically go in there for pmags and shooting.
An example of what I was talking about previously in this thread is that I recently went to a local place to look at AR sights. While I was there I was quoted a price of $150 for a rear sight from a brand that shall remain anonymous. For $110 I can buy the SAME sight directly from the manufacturer. For $195 I can buy the front and rear together from the manufacturer. I can buy the same sight set (front AND rear) for $180 from Spikes Tactical (if I don't mind the Spikes logo being on them). There's another local dealer that has a different brand of sights "on sale" and their sale price is MSRP. The non-sale price is about $30 higher.
Having said all that, I must point out that I'm all for supporting my local businesses. In fact I would rather buy locally. I would get to inspect the item before purchase, I wouldn't have to wait for it to come in the mail, and it would be much simpler to return it if there was an issue with it. I also wouldn't mind paying a few more dollars over internet pricing to buy locally. However, when the price differences are like those noted above, how could anyone who bothers to do any research bring themselves to buy anywhere but online?
The part about the whole thing is that when a manufacturer shows their suggested MSRP on their website/brochure/whatever, they are charging the local gun shop less than that. The MSRP already has the profit built in. A LGS here in my area told me they needed to cover their overhead ABOVE the MSRP.
:mad:
I think they have too high of an overhead.
OneInchPunch
03-06-11, 23:58
I believe all of us here are "gun snobs". We are the minority! I spend half of my day at the shop explaining why the Taurus Judge is NOT the best personal defense handgun and the other half explaining why Bushmaster is NOT a real AR. People look at me like I'm speaking in tongues. I guarantee that if I put a complete BCM next to a Shrubmaster most people would buy the Bushmaster. My boss stocks what people ask for. He knows that it is inferior but it's what sells.
you are 100% right. i work in a gun shop in a smaller area, the expensive stuff just sits and collects dust. we have tried to educate, i recommend this site before i sell an AR, but no matter what the bad stuff sells. if i had a dollar for every time a guy saw the AR's on the shelf and said "what the hell would you do with that?" i could afford to buy two of just about any brand rifle. all gunshops arent bad, i work for one that is just pushed around by demand.
i am ordering an LWRC M6A2 and the customer that was there when i placed the order just about shit his pants at the price, and then tried to talk me into his old DPMS....i said very politely, if i wanted a piece of shit, i would have made one out of the taco bell i had for lunch:sarcastic:
OneInchPunch
03-07-11, 00:10
when i got my job as a gun salesman, i was shocked at how little the store makes on guns. on a handgun, we are lucky to see 14-17%, and on a rifle its usually less. this is why when people come in and ask "what kind of deal can i get" i usually have the same conversation with the guy who tells me he found the same thing online for $6 less. then i get to transfer the gun to him when it comes in and listen to him bitch because there is a $20 transfer fee.....:suicide:
when i got my job as a gun salesman, i was shocked at how little the store makes on guns. on a handgun, we are lucky to see 14-17%, and on a rifle its usually less. this is why when people come in and ask "what kind of deal can i get" i usually have the same conversation with the guy who tells me he found the same thing online for $6 less. then i get to transfer the gun to him when it comes in and listen to him bitch because there is a $20 transfer fee.....:suicide:
I wish my at least one of my local shops did transfers for $20. I found one that does $30, and the rest are all $35 and up.
charmcitycop
03-07-11, 11:59
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