Had a failure!

[WaterChunker]

Ok so I went to the gun range today and shot the ar. I have a stag model 2. The magazines I was using are gen 1 fde windowed pmags and gen windowed black pmags. I shot 120 rounds of federal 55grain .223 through my fde pmags. I then shot 20 pmc .223 55grain with the black pmag. Next I went back to a fde pmag with 30 rounds of federal 55grain .223. So I have shot a total of 180rounds so far. Now I go back to the black pmag with 20 more rounds of pmc .223 55grain and after the 11th round it fails. I have a casing turned sideways in the ejection port pinned in by the next round trying to chamber. I wonder why this happened. I cleared the rifle put the bullet back in the mag and shot the next 9 rounds. I went back to a fde mag with federal .223 55grain and shot all 30 flawless. So i have shot a total of 230rounds with 1 failure so far.

[RioGrandeGreen]

I got a Stag arms too and I also had a failure to eject with good mags. I upgraded to a bolt extractor o ring and my problem disappeared. I have fired a couple of hundred rounds without a failure. YMMV.

[jonconsiglio]

Don't analyze it, just clear it and shoot it.

[christcorp]

You wonder why it happened?

Because it's mechanical. It's not perfect. And if anyone tells you there is an AR15 out there that will never have a mishap, then they are B.Sing out their butt. Now; when you've had issues on a somewhat frequent basis, then you might want to be concerned.

[sargoodwin]

Don't analyze it, just clear it and shoot it.

Ditto.

Sounds like a standard stove pipe or double feed. Just work thru it. If it happens multiple times, then look at it deeper (ie type of ammo, same or different mag, speed of shooting; slower paced shots or rapid fire).

I have double feeds quite a bit with wolf ammo, but have only had one during 1500+ rounds of federal/fiocchi.

[foxjordan22]

I got a Stag arms too and I also had a failure to eject with good mags. I upgraded to a bolt extractor o ring and my problem disappeared. I have fired a couple of hundred rounds without a failure. YMMV.

this. an extra power extractor spring and o ring are a good idea. BCM has a kit for them. good luck.

[Mac5.56]

Don't analyze it, just clear it and shoot it.

Really? That is your solution. Wow...

[jonconsiglio]

It is when it's one out of a few hundred. If it's 1 out of every mag, I'd be concerned. I wasn't being a smartass, I was typing from my phone and that is how I DO handle it on that rare occasion.

What's your suggestion to the OP?

[christcorp]

When you shoot 230 rounds, have 1 bad round, never mention having any other bad rounds in the past..... Then yea; just clear it and shoot is excellent advice. What's there to analyze? Do you waste your money and start replacing ejector springs and new O-rings? If you took your car out for a drive, and it puttered 1 time going doing the highway and lasted all of 2 seconds, would you start looking at rebuilding the engine or parts to replace? The question is NEVER, WILL a gun have a mishap/misfire; but rather WHEN. As Jon and others have eluded to; when it happens more frequently, then you worry about it. 1 mess up ever..... No; just clear it and shoot. Ever wonder why the military taught us how to clear misfires/feeds? Because eventually, one will happen.

[sevin8nin]

It's good that you're paying attention as much as you are. But I agree with everyone else that it's not an indication of anything yet.
I have an AR that when i first got it (used) it seemed to work fine with PMC 55gr .223, then one day at the range i got a couple of short strokes where it would eject the empty casing but fail to pick up a new round. I switched to some other kind of ammo that was present that day at the range and the frequency of these malfunctions increased to every round. We diagnosed everything we could and swapped out things like the bolt, carrier group, charging handle, every brand mag we could think of. But it seemed that whenever i shot anything other than PMC .223 55gr i would end up with a single shot rifle.
Took the hand guards off and low and behold the gas block was definitely leaking. Contacted the manufacturer, and three weeks later i had a new gas block on my rifle. Haven't had a hiccup since.

But, i didn't jump to conclusions the first few times i had a malfunction.

The point of my "story" is to stay objective, and don't necessarily focus on the malfunction, but keep it in the back of your mind so that if it does develop in to something very frequent you've got a pattern ready.

[WaterChunker]

I cleaned my ar squeaky clean and lubed it up very well. I'm going to bring 100 rounds each of pmc and federal and see what happens.

[Iraqgunz]

Cleaning "squeaky" is unnecessary and time consuming. A basic cleaning and lubrication is more than adequate.

What I would be concerned with is whether or not you have a good extractor srping assembly and whether or not your chamber is tight.


I cleaned my ar squeaky clean and lubed it up very well. I'm going to bring 100 rounds each of pmc and federal and see what happens.

[christcorp]

IRQ: I respect your opinions; but i have a question for you. Would you actually be concerned about the extractor spring and the chamber was tight if this was the one AND ONLY round that didn't extract properly. As the OP stated; he shot plenty of rounds before it, AND PLENTY MORE after. It was 1 case. Is there anything to really look at??? If an individual was familiar with firearms, they'd know that one misejected round out of hundreds doesn't mean anything. But a person who is asking such a concern on a forum is probably not as experienced with firearms. Unless he takes it to a smith, I'd hate to see someone starting to take about their ejector or worst yet, air system; because they think there might be a problem. All over 1 piece of brass.

Sometimes, there simply isn't any problem.

[justin_247]

As the OP stated; he shot plenty of rounds before it, AND PLENTY MORE after.

230 rounds is not very much... when Iraqgunz speaks, it's best to listen. I've learned a lot from him and he has a lot of experience with all kinds of brands and their intricacies.

Sure, teach yourself drills and such so that if this were to happen again and again, you can easily clear it. But actions should be taken to minimize the likelihood of this happening again.

To the Op, at a minimum check to see if your extractor has a black o-ring and black extractor insert. If not, go ahead and install a BCM Extractor Upgrade Kit. Swap out your carbine buffer for an H-buffer while you're at it and ensure your castle nut and carrier key are well staked.

[jonconsiglio]

I understand what iraqgunz is saying. For quite a while now, I've not had to worry about things like the type of extractor spring or chamber. I assumed Stag was a little better about those things than the problems I had a number of years ago with a DPMS and a BM. In the past 5 years all I've ought is Colt, Noveske and KAC, etc..

My point was though that failures happen. Work through them. It's a learning experience and since you've fired over 200 rounds with one failure, I'd just assume it's going to be alright. Sure, upgrade the spring and maybe have someone check the chamber for you.

I've seen so many guys on the range with their new AR encounter a failure and just STOP, look at their gun with a confused face and then seem almost afraid to touch it. All guns will fail, so prepare for it. When it does, just clear it and drive on. That's why any good class you go to will cover malfunction drills. About 6 years ago I bought a Wilson Combat for my 25th birthday. I had a couple failures somewhere in the first 500 rounds and it freaked me out. After some sound advice and some more training, I learned to work through it and forget about it, unless it's consistent. Don't let it get to you.

Oh, I've "upgraded" my means of forum communication from my iPhone to my iPad. You should see how long my posts get when I am on one of my computers!

[wahoo95]

Don't always assume its the gun...sometimes its the ammo ;)

What kinda lube are you using?

[paulb]

hey man i have the same rifle stag model 2t and had the same prob. a couple of the guys gave u sound advice..... upgrade the extractor spring to Bravo and get a H or H2 buffer. the buffer u get depends on what type of ammo u are shooting. H for most types. i did those 2 upgrades and have shot over 1000 rounds WOLF( bring on the jokes....) :sarcastic:and flawless trust me. u got a fantastic rifle there. heres an article everyone should read. if the thread doesn't work google "so u want to buy an ar huh" serious read.
http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh

[Iraqgunz]

No not really. I was throwing that out for GP. I never discount ammo and since I have several lots and types I always check ammo and mags.


IRQ: I respect your opinions; but i have a question for you. Would you actually be concerned about the extractor spring and the chamber was tight if this was the one AND ONLY round that didn't extract properly. As the OP stated; he shot plenty of rounds before it, AND PLENTY MORE after. It was 1 case. Is there anything to really look at??? If an individual was familiar with firearms, they'd know that one misejected round out of hundreds doesn't mean anything. But a person who is asking such a concern on a forum is probably not as experienced with firearms. Unless he takes it to a smith, I'd hate to see someone starting to take about their ejector or worst yet, air system; because they think there might be a problem. All over 1 piece of brass.

Sometimes, there simply isn't any problem.

[WaterChunker]

Don't always assume its the gun...sometimes its the ammo ;)

What kinda lube are you using?

I use the lube that comes in the gun cleaner package i buy.

[WaterChunker]

hey man i have the same rifle stag model 2t and had the same prob. a couple of the guys gave u sound advice..... upgrade the extractor spring to Bravo and get a H or H2 buffer. the buffer u get depends on what type of ammo u are shooting. H for most types. i did those 2 upgrades and have shot over 1000 rounds WOLF( bring on the jokes....) :sarcastic:and flawless trust me. u got a fantastic rifle there. heres an article everyone should read. if the thread doesn't work google "so u want to buy an ar huh" serious read.
http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh

Yea i ordered a h2 buffer,..i took the bolt carrier apart,..but i dont now how to take the bolt apart to change the o-ring or spring. I'm new to this lol.

[d90king]

Don't analyze it, just clear it and shoot it.

Award winning post!

Congrats.:rolleyes:

[Iraqgunz]

Please get a copy of the operators manual and read it. You'll be surprised at the amount of info in there, to include disassembly of the weapon.


Yea i ordered a h2 buffer,..i took the bolt carrier apart,..but i dont now how to take the bolt apart to change the o-ring or spring. I'm new to this lol.

[Altoids]

Yea i ordered a h2 buffer,..i took the bolt carrier apart,..but i dont now how to take the bolt apart to change the o-ring or spring. I'm new to this lol.

This guide helped me learn how to field strip an AR: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=7&t=456002

I also found this helpful: http://ultimatereloader.com/2010/11/13/ar-mpr-ar-15-project-kick-off

[WaterChunker]

Please get a copy of the operators manual and read it. You'll be surprised at the amount of info in there, to include disassembly of the weapon.
Thanks man i'll go do that.


This guide helped me learn how to field strip an AR: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=7&t=456002

I also found this helpful: http://ultimatereloader.com/2010/11/13/ar-mpr-ar-15-project-kick-off
Lol awesome, its like ar-15 for dummies!

[WaterChunker]

I did some reading and ordered a bcm h2 buffer,..i read something about it slowing the cycle and that having a carbine upper and having so much pressure I figured this would help,..did i make a good choice?

[sargoodwin]

I did some reading and ordered a bcm h2 buffer,..i read something about it slowing the cycle and that having a carbine upper and having so much pressure I figured this would help,..did i make a good choice?

I have both a regular carbine buffer and a H2 in my ARs. Both function just fine. I have had less issue with double feeds with the H2, but I wouldn't put stock in this being the sole reason. The H2 is in a completely built up Daniel Defense rifle, where the standard buffer is in a gas piston bushy upper. So with that in mind there are a number of different reasons for that could contribute to feed issues. (see my earlier post)

Good luck with your set up.

[jonconsiglio]

I did some reading and ordered a bcm h2 buffer,..i read something about it slowing the cycle and that having a carbine upper and having so much pressure I figured this would help,..did i make a good choice?

I think that's a good choice whether you have issues or not. Also, Bravo Company sells the extractor spring upgrades for about $5 and bolt upgrades for $30. Again, problems or not, it's not a bad idea to grab one of those kits if not completely upgrading the BCG....if you feel it needs it.

Be sure to post back after another few trips so we can see where it's at.

Jonathan

[christcorp]

Waterchunker; please clarify for me.

1. This is the only malfunction you've had?
2. This malfunction ONLY happened to 1 round of brass.
3. Because of this single malfunction, you believe there's a problem.
4. You've spent money on buffer and other parts believing that you're preventing the rifle from ever having a problem ejecting an empty case in the future.

That's pretty much how this thread has gone. I'm simply trying to understand if what i've read is correct. If not; PLEASE clarify.

Justin: I have a lot of respect for Iraqguns. And maybe you don't have a lot of experience with weapons, and therefor i understand your comment. But I have enough experience with AR/M16 that I can make educated comments and opinions. And that is why I asked Iraqguns if he would automatically assume a problem with the gun with just 1 failure. He agreed that he would not. And honestly, I think that your advice "AT MINIMUM" is to start swapping buffers, adding upgrade kits, tighten the castle nut, etc... is definitely over the top.

You all do what you want. One failure to eject a single empty case properly does NOT constitute a problem. Sometime; SHIITE HAPPENS!!! What a concept. And if you don't agree with my assessment; even Iraqguns never suggested such things. He never went any further than inspecting the extractor spring and chamber. I definitely didn't see him recommending spending any money on parts.

Again; you'all do whatever you want. it's your money. But 6 months from now, after you've spent this extra money, and your rifle fails to properly eject an empty case; or doesn't feed the next round properly; or short strokes, etc... get ready to spend "Waste" more money on more parts that someone tells you needs changing out. All because of 1 failure. "EVER".

[opmike]

A few users here could stand to ease up on the snideness, especially when said users chose to contribute NOTHING to the discussion after doing so.

There have been several accounts of people having concerns with PMC, and it potentially being underpowered ammo. And before anyone gets worked up, I'm not saying all PMC ammo is shit or that you won't have any success with it. PMC functions in my BCM, but I've had some rounds feel noticeably more sluggish.

Also, I do not feel that a single malfunction with "rifle X" using lower grade ammo is sufficient evidence to establish that "rifle X" has a reliability issue. Unless the failure in question was obviously a mechanical one.

With that said, I do agree that the OP's Stag (if he intends to use it for more than range plinking; in a defensive role) could stand to have some checks done to ensure that things are up to spec. As Iraqgunz said, take a look at the chamber and extractor assembly to address any potential issue. And BCM's upgrade kit is like 5 bucks. Even if the OP didn't have a malfunction, these would be things to look at.

[WaterChunker]

Waterchunker; please clarify for me.

1. This is the only malfunction you've had?
2. This malfunction ONLY happened to 1 round of brass.
3. Because of this single malfunction, you believe there's a problem.
4. You've spent money on buffer and other parts believing that you're preventing the rifle from ever having a problem ejecting an empty case in the future.

That's pretty much how this thread has gone. I'm simply trying to understand if what i've read is correct. If not; PLEASE clarify.

Justin: I have a lot of respect for Iraqguns. And maybe you don't have a lot of experience with weapons, and therefor i understand your comment. But I have enough experience with AR/M16 that I can make educated comments and opinions. And that is why I asked Iraqguns if he would automatically assume a problem with the gun with just 1 failure. He agreed that he would not. And honestly, I think that your advice "AT MINIMUM" is to start swapping buffers, adding upgrade kits, tighten the castle nut, etc... is definitely over the top.

You all do what you want. One failure to eject a single empty case properly does NOT constitute a problem. Sometime; SHIITE HAPPENS!!! What a concept. And if you don't agree with my assessment; even Iraqguns never suggested such things. He never went any further than inspecting the extractor spring and chamber. I definitely didn't see him recommending spending any money on parts.

Again; you'all do whatever you want. it's your money. But 6 months from now, after you've spent this extra money, and your rifle fails to properly eject an empty case; or doesn't feed the next round properly; or short strokes, etc... get ready to spend "Waste" more money on more parts that someone tells you needs changing out. All because of 1 failure. "EVER".
Ok let me clarify this. I had one malfunction as stated previously. I was only after information as to why this could happen and that was it. The h2 buffer I got, I was going to do anyways to ease up on the recoil a little bit. I had future plants to get a bravo company bcg as a back up.


A few users here could stand to ease up on the snideness, especially when said users chose to contribute NOTHING to the discussion after doing so.

There have been several accounts of people having concerns with PMC, and it potentially being underpowered ammo. And before anyone gets worked up, I'm not saying all PMC ammo is shit or that you won't have any success with it. PMC functions in my BCM, but I've had some rounds feel noticeably more sluggish.

Also, I do not feel that a single malfunction with "rifle X" using lower grade ammo is sufficient evidence to establish that "rifle X" has a reliability issue. Unless the failure in question was obviously a mechanical one.

With that said, I do agree that the OP's Stag (if he intends to use it for more than range plinking; in a defensive role) could stand to have some checks done to ensure that things are up to spec. As Iraqgunz said, take a look at the chamber and extractor assembly to address any potential issue. And BCM's upgrade kit is like 5 bucks. Even if the OP didn't have a malfunction, these would be things to look at.

Yes this rifle is also a defense rifle until i finish the my project build. I have a black rain ordnance and i am deciding between a 16" piston or a 16" midlength.

[paulb]

go to ar tech discussions and look for the thread to disassemble ar BCG. its not too hard once u do it 1st time then easy as pie. if u cant find it pm me and ill give u instructions