UTM ammunition issues?

[Txs]

Anyone have experience with the use of UTM ammunition?

My agency is in the process of adopting these for force on force training and I'm wondering of any weapon problems, issues etc. they cause that I'll potentially be dealing with.

If it makes any difference, I'm referring to the Commando and M16A1.

[Txs]

Surely someone here has used these.

[TOrrock]

Probably best moved to the Ammunition section.

Might want to PM a moderator.

[C45P312]

If you're looking into UTM, I would also look into Simmunition FX. I don't like the UTM round because it shoots a plastic colLar type of thing that could potentially pierce through the skin. That collar use to be metal so that quickly changed to plastic. But I'm still weary of it

[C45P312]

Another reason why I like Simmunition Fx is because I can shoot the 9mm FX round through the pistol and complete m4 upper conversion. Sim pistol rounds will be cheaper than sim rifle rounds. Also alleviates the safety issue of loading a live 5.56 round into a sim rifle that takes 9mm

[Corey]

Late to the party on this, but I have used a bunch of UTM in ARs. Used the metal collar with plastic tip style, have not tried the all plastic.

One reported advantage of UTM is that you don't need an entire upper and special magazine like with Simunition, just change out the BCG and go. However, there were reports several years ago of problems with barrels that had a lot of UTM shot through them and then were switched back to live ammo, kind of like the issue with Glocks and lead bullets. The place I worked where we used UTM we had dedicated uppers just for that so there goes that selling point.

The rounds themselves work very well in pistols, good accuracy and painfull on the receiving end. A word of caution when using in rifles for you. After each run, punch a rod down the barrel to check for stuck projectiles. This was a fairly regular occurrence and since the action will cycle normal guys will keep shooting and stack them up in the barrel during scenarios.

To remove them, always push them out from the chamber end, if you put the rod in the muzzle end you will just wedge them in tighter. If there is just a couple projectiles stuck the will usually push out with moderate force, but if they are stuck good, or there are a lot of them, then you have to heat the barrel with a propane torch enough to soften the plastic and then they will push out.

Wear safety glasses and watch where it is pointed when you heat the barrel, any air spaces can develop enough pressure to launch the projectiles. I have seen little molten plastic covered bits of metal go across a room and stick to a wall before:eek:

My record for removing stuck UTM projectiles is 38 from a single barrel. They were stacked from the chamber to about an inch short of the muzzle. Anybody top that?

[coloccw]

We use both Simunitions and UTM in training. We've gone primarily UTM over the past 5 years for the following reasons:

1) UTM is much more reliable than Simunitions. The plastic capsule keeps the marker intact while travelling down the barrel, without leaving the waxy threads that Sims do. Good luck with Sims in less than ideal weather conditions or select fire guns (our autos don't like Sims)

2) UTM is more consistent accuracy wise. UTM groups better and at longer distances.

3) UTM will not fire with standard firing pins in pistols, and a complete bolt carrier in M4's.

4) UTM provides more realistic "pain" when hit, thus reinforcing the performance under duress and combat mindset that is necessary with force on force.

Previous poster....not sure how you're getting so many squibs, I'd call UTM & figure out what's going on there. We've yet to see a single one after 5 years and ten's of thousands of rounds fired.

[Corey]

I suspect the squib issue had something to do with the metal capsule used at the time. We were in regular contact with UTM and they were aware of the issue. They were the ones who told me the trick about heating up the barrel to get stuck rounds out. This was a before the plastic capsules were out so that change must have fixed the problem. I don't have experience with the plastic capsule myself. We only had the problem with AR rifles, never with pistols. We ran UTM in Glocks, Sigs, and Berettas with excellent results and we had a dozen dedicated UTM uppers for ARs and tried out a UTM converted M249. We only had problems with the ARs. Another tip, the Glock 17 conversion kit works on the Glock 18 if you swap out the striker sleeve :cool:.

I agree with the rest of your points about UTM vs. Simunitions. Also, keep in mind minimum safe distance when using them. I got the scars to prove they aren't kidding!