View Full Version : Why 7.62x39
I did a search but I did not see anything in which this question was asked. So if I missed it, please just point me to it and close the thread.
My question is about the 7.62x39 caliber round. Why is it so popular? Or it at least appears that way. When it comes to many platforms, such as the SCAR, ACR, XCR, and even the AR15 platform, it appears that so many people are just drooling at the mouth for the x39 caliber. I get that it is a bigger bullet, but to me the ballistics of a 5.56 are greater than the x39. Even the Russian army saw the benefits of the smaller 5.56 round and created the 5.45.
So why the popularity? Can someone explain it to me? Is it just the availability and the cost in relation to 5.56, .308, etc?
Pretty much yes. The availability of cheap surplus, good terminal performance, and economy.
Cagemonkey
03-07-11, 10:23
IMHO 7.62 X 39mm is the CLOSEST caliber that is in military service that I would consider to be the ideal assault rifle caliber. It has adequate penetration and stopping power, is fairly controllable in full auto and is effective to 300 meters. Its ammo is also prolific and inexpensive. We can hope all we want for the 6.5 or 6.8 for the M4/16, but its most likely not going to happen.
Anchor Zero Six
03-07-11, 10:38
Cheap cheap and cheap. Also has considerably more ass behind it than a 556 but not a viable round for longer ranges.
Building one for a buddy now (waiting on barrel) and I'm very eager to see how it works out.
Another thing is its a pretty good hunting round in the bush.
^^^^^^
I also love the ergonomics of the AR platform and have read, researched, studied, purchased, built, shot, and accumulated several thousand rounds of said ammunition in a relatively inexpensive manner. Sure the 5.56 can reach to longer distances, but in my environment CQB would be more important. Also 30cal bores in sub 16" barrels perform better than their 556 counterparts simply because the greater available powder burn volume. Sure you can get 2500fps from a 10.5" 5.56 and 62gr, but woud anyone in their right mind want to be on the receiving end of a 123gr M67 that is zipping along at 2100fps? I certainly would not. Plus I can get ammunition for less than $0.22/rd, and closer to about $0.18 if purchased in bulk. I could get some dies for it and reload it for subsonic applications, but that will only happen after I get my can. Sure there are some issues with feeding properly but there are number of acceptable ways to make it a good feeding cartridge. Seeing the PWS Diablo 7.62x39 run in full-auto tells me one thing---it can run and run like a sewing machine. Tweaking might be necessary, but often times a short-barreled AR in 10.5 also need tweaking in terms of buffers being upgraded to H or H2, and short-stroking, so any weapon system may not be immune to the dynamics of firing it regardless of caliber.
As noted previously in above posts, the cartridge has been around for years, and will likely remain so for a very long while. I certainly welcome the ability to shoot large bullets for very little money.
I built one in 7.62 because I have a boatload of the ammo, it hits much harder, it's it can be used for hunting deer, pigs, and such. I can get twice as much 7.62 as I can decent .223. Plus, I have 5 AK's, so it just made sense.
The ammo is slightly cheaper (5.56 Wolf is cheap too though). Brass is $12 per lb here for scrap. :p
For ballistics: http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf
Cheap ammo, bad guy factor, false premise that bullet diameter is proportional to effectiveness
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19885
Suffers same issues as 5.56 Nato.
Democrats hate it.
In that case, I'm switching right away. :D:D:D Case closed
Makintrax73
03-09-11, 16:19
This quote from DocGKR pretty much sums up why you might want it:
Because of the larger permanent cavity and greater bullet mass, the 7.62 x 39 mm JSP’s offer somewhat better performance than the .223 bonded JSP’s, like the Trophy Bonded Bearclaw use in the Federal Tactical loads. These 7.62 x 39 mm JSP loads are a good choice for use against car windows and should also be outstanding for hunting deer and other similar size game.
Cheap blasting ammo and the potential for better terminal performance. If you wanted an AR for blasting and hunting it's pretty easy to see why a 7.62 is attractive.
That cheap blaster ammo has crappy terminal ballistics.
Also in the AR system, the taper of the the case can cause feeding problems. The taper of the case is what causes the the unique shape of the AK-Magazine.
No commie ammo in my AR. better to go with 6.5, 6.8, 300BLK etc...
There are much better alternatives for the AR and if you goal is cheap plinking ammo, 5.56 is tough to beat. Sure you may find 7.62x39 cheaper but that's after you get the upper/mags/etc... And providing you don't get feeding problems.
Its all hype (for an AR).
Now in an AK? why not? System was designed for it.
Dirtyboy333
03-10-11, 00:19
The ammo sites that i buy my ammo from show that comparable rounds (quality wise, steel/brass) of x39 and 556 really are ABOUT the same price.... I'm not sure of this but it seems that the cheap surplus x39 is starting to run out.
The ammo sites that i buy my ammo from show that comparable rounds (quality wise, steel/brass) of x39 and 556 really are ABOUT the same price.... I'm not sure of this but it seems that the cheap surplus x39 is starting to run out.
yeah when 7.62x39 was 100 bucks a case it was pretty cool. it's been over 175 a case pretty much the whole time i've been into evil rifles.
223 can easily be reloaded for 15 cents a round. GOOD 223. that runs well in AR's.
Dirtyboy333
03-10-11, 05:31
yeah when 7.62x39 was 100 bucks a case it was pretty cool. it's been over 175 a case pretty much the whole time i've been into evil rifles.
223 can easily be reloaded for 15 cents a round. GOOD 223. that runs well in AR's.
Yeah, i know what you mean. If you compare even the cheap steel cased Brown bear, Tula etc. in 223/556 to x39 the x39 is only like 20-30 cheaper a case. last i checked on ammotogo.com the 223 Silver Bear 62gr was on sale and slightly cheaper than the x39 Silver Bear.
I havent really looked at the prices of old x39 suplus in a few months but what is it now? around $200?
Reloading is something that has really sparked my interest lately probably bc i'm a hands on kinda guy. I havent ever reloaded (yet) but i know my granfather used to love it. I'm 27 so id say depending on income i would like to start reloading by 28 which will be in June. The good thing is that luckily i've always picked up my brass after shooting so i have a lil head start.:) I want to cook up some accurate loads soon. Theres so many machines/presses and stuff that i'm very confused on where i should even start learning to reload. Maybe ill buy a book or something to get a grasp on all the different offerings and what i will need. When you say its around 15 cents a round (thats cheap) that is not including the brass right? What i mean is that the 15 cents or so a round is using your saved brass right and not brass you bought in bulk. Right now i'm spending 40 cents a round for Federal 55gr bulk pack at Wal-mart. So i could probably get heavier bullets like OTM's and still save $.
I do like the 7.62x39 as a carbine cartridge. Im more of a fan of the 7.62 NATO but...the Soviet cartridge performs well for its intended purpose. I prefer it in the AK platform though and have had good luck using quality weapons.
heck yeah for an AK. The same logic applies for 7.62x39 in the AK as 5.56 in AR.
I don't want to start an AR vs AK thread, but I think the original cartridges work best with their respective rifles. There's a lot of wisdom in using 5.56 in the AR and 7.62x39 in the AK. Once you start looking at improved ammo, the platform really comes into play. That's why I'd feel better about AR "Derived" cartridges over 7.62x39 in an AR, but wouldn't dream on using 6.8 or 6.5 in an AK.
Regarding feeding problems---they can be solved. I am fully aware of the tapered case design not being ideal for the AR magwell but there are a few things can be done to enhance feeding of that cartridge. Plus, I never shoot steel cased ammo. I've seen too many stuck cases in ARs to consider doing that. Sure the Yugo Milsurp is corrosive however gunscrubber and CLP fix that when I put the BCG thru my cleaning ritual. One thing I can attest to is extending the feedramps perhaps 1mm to allow a lower center for the fatter cartridge to feed up. And using an H or H2 buffer so that the BCG doesn't outrun the mag.
they are cheap to shoot and surprisingly accurate. my feeding / extraction problems were resolved when i opened up the gas port. then again, i built a piston ar.
http://carolinashootersforum.com/showthread.php?t=83130
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