View Full Version : SR-25EMC vs Scar 17
Rwatts62081
03-09-11, 09:11
Im looking for comparisons between these 2 rifles. Id prefer comments from people who own both or have shot both. Which is lighter? How does recoil compare? How is the accuracy? I know the price difference between them and the availabilty of mags. Im really wanting to know which is the handier of the two. Which is the better all around carbine?
Im looking for comparisons between these 2 rifles. Id prefer comments from people who own both or have shot both. Which is lighter? How does recoil compare? How is the accuracy? I know the price difference between them and the availabilty of mags. Im really wanting to know which is the handier of the two. Which is the better all around carbine?
SCAR 17 is lighter, but not significantly. It also seems to balance a little better. Recoil seems about the same to me. The SR25EMC has a much better trigger for now (there will be an limited run of Geissele triggers for the SCAR in the future for ~ $400). I'm more accurate with the SR25 mainly due to the trigger.
Also, I do not have complete confidence in the durability of some SCAR small parts such as the stock latch - mine was broken on arrival. Again, there will soon be an aftermarket correction for this weak link.
For now, I consider the SR25 to be the best semi-auto .308 on the market.
Rwatts62081
03-09-11, 09:41
How much difference in length is there? Scar unfolded and fully extended vs -25 stock fully extended?
Well, I *don't* own both, nor have I even shot the SR25, but I considered them both prior to picking up a Scar.
In the end, what it came down for me was this that the Scar was about 1.5K+ cheaper than the SR25, is something different than my Ar15s while still mostly allowing carry-over of skills, and I've read a few notable reports of folks having issues of SR25s in carbine classes, etc. It was this last one that really swayed me. Not sure how common those issues are, but I've not stumbled on such issues with owners of the Scar.
That said, with the Scar you have limited support (or spare parts) from FN, it's really tough (near impossible at present) to find mags, and from what I little I know it's probably a bit less accurate than the SR25--but I've not seen much empirical data directly comparing the two.
The recoil on the Scar is barely worse than a 5.56 rifle fwiw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AMcLtYmXhE
I was told the SCAR 17 uses FAL mags. Is this true?
I was told the SCAR 17 uses FAL mags. Is this true?
Negative. There's a post on here somewhere from an enterprising fellow that took a crack at modding a few of his many surplus FAL mags, and got nowhere. There's more than a passing resemblance, but I bet that anybody that figured out how to make SCAR 17 mags from FAL mags would practically have a license to print money. I know I'd buy several boxes and just have them converted.
Edit to add: Found the thread, here ---> https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=64127&page=3
LaRue predator over either.
QuietShootr
04-27-11, 00:02
LaRue predator over either.
Mmm... I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there.
The SCAR-H is the lightest weight (7.8 pounds) AND lightest recoiling 7.62 available. It folds up and stows in the same amount of space as a Mk18, it has a hammer forged 30,000+ round life barrel, and is no-shit the most tested and refined military small arm ever adopted by any military organization. For a general-purpose rifle, it is at the top of its class in 7.62. The ONLY real drawbacks are magazine and parts availability (which isn't going to last forever).
For a DMR or precision semi-auto, I would choose something else - but for a general purpose battle rifle, it's a tough gun to beat.
Magic_Salad0892
04-27-11, 00:14
I would go Knight's or LMT (13'' Barrel).
I'd rather go LaRue then a knights since money is in fact a valuable thing.
The scar recoils quite a bit more then the LaRue and isn't all that accurate. As you pointed out the magazines and spare parts are a real issue, and one I hope fn fixes.
But yeah, gonna honestly say LaRue, or the fn if that's the only alternative.
Magic_Salad0892
04-27-11, 00:26
I'd much rather give my money to Knights, or LMT considering I like the companies, what they stand for, what they make, and how they treat their customers. I've never felt shunned away by them.
Plus. I just feel as if they are better guns than either the SCAR, or Predator. I'm not hot on LaRue anyway though. Don't hate 'em. Just don't like 'em. I'm pretty lukewarm on FNH as well.
I can tell you that the CS at LaRue is hands down the best out there. I have used many Knights products (to include the SR-25) and I have not been impressed. LMT makes a good product but the CS is less than good. I looked at getting a .308 LMT and with the MIL discount it is still about $200 more than I can get a NEW one from GunBroker…..Really? I have been using LaRue products for the last 5 or 6 years and I have never had any issues. They are top notch and the quality is setting the standard.
As for the SCAR...not a chance. Until some of the issues that it has are cleared up, it is not worth it. Also it is completely useless unless you can get mags for it...Good luck with that.
I'm sure the PredatAR is a fine weapon. Too bad you have to buy it from Mark Larue. :laugh:
When i was choosing i went Larue as well
I was going to do ao scar hvy but mags and other issues kept me away
( i do love my light thought)
folding stock for what storage and transport? CDI factor.
Negative. There's a post on here somewhere from an enterprising fellow that took a crack at modding a few of his many surplus FAL mags, and got nowhere. There's more than a passing resemblance, but I bet that anybody that figured out how to make SCAR 17 mags from FAL mags would practically have a license to print money. I know I'd buy several boxes and just have them converted.
Edit to add: Found the thread, here ---> https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=64127&page=3
That is disappointing
I'd much rather give my money to Knights, or LMT considering I like the companies, what they stand for, what they make, and how they treat their customers. I've never felt shunned away by them.
Plus. I just feel as if they are better guns than either the SCAR, or Predator. I'm not hot on LaRue anyway though. Don't hate 'em. Just don't like 'em. I'm pretty lukewarm on FNH as well.
I'll go opposite on those points. Just asking who here has actually shot all the guns in question or is just posting opinions based on biases.
I know steve has for one. Just trying to offer the original poster some clarity on his question.
QuietShootr
04-27-11, 09:15
I'll go opposite on those points. Just asking who here has actually shot all the guns in question or is just posting opinions based on biases.
I know steve has for one. Just trying to offer the original poster some clarity on his question.
I have shot the EMC quite a bit, owned the LMT, and own a SCAR. Never shot the Larue.
I did a bunch of testing on the scar at Bragg a few years back, shot the SR25 some during my last trip to the Stan, and shot the OBR some. Never fired the LMT. Can anyone compare the OBR to the Predator?
I'll go opposite on those points. Just asking who here has actually shot all the guns in question or is just posting opinions based on biases.
I know steve has for one. Just trying to offer the original poster some clarity on his question.
What part of the OP's question requested comparative info using the Larue or LMT....if clarity is the goal, than I would think filling up this thread with Larue, LMT, or any other make rifle besides the EMC and SCAR would be highly detrimental to the cause of clarity. At this point this thread is simply a "pick your favorite rifle" with no comparative info on the two specific guns the OP requested.
So I would think the better question to ask is....who has shot the EMC and the SCAR, and can offer some comparative analysis b/t the two?
So I would think the better question to ask is....who has shot the EMC and the SCAR, and can offer some comparative analysis b/t the two?
Which ones do you have time on? If I might ask.
Steve, doc, and myself have time on both platforms. I don't care for the scar heavy. Nor do I for the emc based on experience with and cost of. Which for the money I'd spend half as much and get the OBR or Pred, which is why it was brought up, because some of us feel that the choice between the guns in question is ignoring great alternatives.
Ive shot them all except the PredAr.
All of them were reliable and accurate when I used them.
Of all of them I much prefer the feature set of the EMC.
If Larue made a PredAR with an OBR profiled barrel and ambi controls I might consider one of those, but he doesnt.
As for price, its not like resale on them is bad, unless you destroy the rifle using it, you can always get most of your $$ back.
Although it seems the OP started this thread with basically his mind made up on those two rifles only, by no means should he not look elsewere. No one is "out of topic" for giving the OP other options to consider. If this thread would have been made 5 years ago when the knights rifles were the only worthwhile AR10 variant available then I would say nothing further. But now days there are many more options to consider. No one is trying to derail his thread, we are helping him make an informed decision.
As for price, its not like resale on them is bad, unless you destroy the rifle using it, you can always get most of your $$ back.
Were not leasing a car here. Usually we buy guns for keeps.
So the sticker price SHOULD be a big factor. Since saving 2500+ buys a lot of optic, mags, etc.
Were not leasing a car here. Usually we buy guns for keeps.
So the sticker price SHOULD be a big factor. Since saving 2500+ buys a lot of optic, mags, etc.
Whose we? Your telling me you have never sold a gun?
I go through guns all the time.
The only thing I have for keeps is NFA items because its too much of a pain to sell them off.
None of the guns listed are 2500 less than what you can get a new EMC for these days anyways.
If I am buying something like this, I am going to get the one that has all the features I want on it.
jonconsiglio
04-27-11, 12:42
Which ones do you have time on? If I might ask.
Unfortunately, this nonsense of throwing out advice or trashing a product without any real experience is becoming too common and very reminiscent of the other forum that so many of these same people trash on a regular basis. If you don't own it or have considerable experience on it, "keep your mouth shut about it" should be the unwritten rule. I always thought it was! When I ask for advice on a gun, I'd really appreciate that the one giving the advice actually has some experience.
I own both SCARs and have a little bit of time behind a EMC, but not enough to give advice on it, though I have had some interesting conversations on the gun!
I can't speak on the LaRue, but from the two people I've spoken with that own them, it sounds like a great shooter, all else aside.
The SCAR 17 is very light weight and accurate enough for my personal needs as I have others for precision at long range, though it would be a nice benefit if this was a 1 MOA gun, but it's not, at least for me. I see the problem with parts availability with this and the 16. I'd love to have a couple short barrels handy to swap or keep an extra bolt and small parts, but unfortunately it's not that simple right now. I wouldn't own either of these as my only 5.56 or 7.62 guns.
Recoil is very minimal for the caliber and weight, then after adding a BattleComp BABC, it felt more like a 5.56 than a 7.62. I have a video somewhere, but I can't find it now even though I uploaded it recently.
I, for a while, was sure I wanted an EMC and was gearing up to buy it, but something just didn't feel right about it to me. The price mainly, though I've spent more and on others in the past. There's some other things too, but not that important. This is not in any way saying it's not the best thing available, I don't know. I just know that it's not my highest priority at this very moment.
I'm glad to see these new LaRue guns coming out. I'm not really a fan of billet, but I wouldn't let it stop me from owning a proven reliable, quality gun (if a gun was proven, not saying the new PredatAR is a proven reliable, quality gun - just to clarify - but if it becomes that, I'd consider it). Unfortunately, we're limited with out options on auto 7.62s, so that needs to be taken into consideration as well. A company I may not normally purchase a 5.56 gun may be where I go for a 7.62 as my preferred companies may not have a 7.62 option, or it's just too expensive compared to others.
I have never bought a gun with the intention of selling it. If I sell a gun it's because it later turns out to suck. I buy guns because the intention is for them to work.
The OBR on average is 2000 less then an EMC, list price. The Pred is 500 less then the OBR. That's 2500.
If I am buying something like this, I am going to get the one that has all the features I want on it.
Hey, me too.
I have never bought a gun with the intention of selling it. If I sell a gun it's because it later turns out to suck. I buy guns because the intention is for them to work.
The OBR on average is 2000 less then an EMC, list price. The Pred is 500 less then the OBR. That's 2500.
Hey, me too.
Ive sold guns that worked fine and bought new toys, sometimes just to make room in the safe, its nice to know resale on a gun is good.
The price thing is silly, you can get EMCs for much less than 5k, who cares what MSRP is, they are not 2500$ more, its not an honest argument.
As far as features, I guess it would depend on what the OP wants this rifle for. I run my .308 16in very different from how you set up yours.
jonconsiglio
04-27-11, 13:13
The price thing is silly, you can get EMCs for much less than 5k, who cares what MSRP is, they are not 2500$ more, its not an honest argument.
As far as features, I guess it would depend on what the OP wants this rifle for. I run my .308 16in very different from how you set up yours.
How do you have your's set up? I think I'd put a 3-10 on there and shoot longer range.
You're going totally straw man on me now.
I've seen OBRs sold at dealer cost or under. But that's not the norm, and I go based on the average price you can pick up one of these guns. I go based on the rule, not the exception.
Let's throw out list price. It's still a lot more expensiver.
To rusteds point I would like to know what the OPs requirements are before going too much further.
How do you have your's set up? I think I'd put a 3-10 on there and shoot longer range.
I switch off between a TA33 for midrange, a Nightforce 3.5x15, for longer stuff, and a TAM-14 for night time fun.
I mostly use the TA33 because my personal range only goes to 600m, it was alot of fun figuring out the math to get all the BDC lined up.
jonconsiglio
04-27-11, 13:40
I switch off between a TA33 for midrange, a Nightforce 3.5x15, for longer stuff, and a TAM-14 for night time fun.
I mostly use the TA33 because my personal range only goes to 600m, it was alot of fun figuring out the math to get all the BDC lined up.
I bet! I contacted them about switching out the reticle in mine for 7.62. I have the TA31 RCO but decided against it.
Titleist,
Can you please explain why you have so soured on your EMC?
Also, it sounds as though you own a 7.62 PredatAR. Have any feedback on how the thin profiled barrel is holding up w/ tactical (not hunting) applications?
I have no problem suggesting you prefer one system over another - it would just be nice if you explained why. You may have stated the reasons in another thread, but I've missed it.
Thanks in advance.
I'm stuck in Los Angeles till tonight. On my iPad. I'll type something up when I get home. So hold for a few hours.
My buddy snagged a 7.62 predator so we've been shaking that thing out for the last few weeks. I don't personally own one, but may add one to go with my OBR.
I'm stuck in Los Angeles till tonight. On my iPad. I'll type something up when I get home. So hold for a few hours.
My buddy snagged a 7.62 predator so we've been shaking that thing out for the last few weeks. I don't personally own one, but may add one to go with my OBR.
Thanks for the effort.
I've never even held an EMC or PredatAR. But I have owned a MK11 since 2000. I would like to purchase the carbine version sometime this summer. I've been a KAC whore for years, but would like to make the right decision.
I bet! I contacted them about switching out the reticle in mine for 7.62. I have the TA31 RCO but decided against it.
If you zero the 5.56 version at 175m using 175gr ammo, the BDC lines up perfect for 4, 5, 6
jonconsiglio
04-27-11, 14:34
If you zero the 5.56 version at 175m using 175gr ammo, the BDC lines up perfect for 4, 5, 6
What will your hold be at 100 with that zero, about an inch low?
What will your hold be at 100 with that zero, about an inch low?
Ill PM so we are not Hijacking too bad.:D
According to the Larry Vickers..... The Seal Team is getting away from the MK11 to the SCAR 17S. Personally, I own both and rather own the MK11.
http://fnforum.net/awesome-vid-by-larry-vickers-on-17-and-20-t27204.html
According to the Larry Vickers..... The Seal Team is getting away from the MK11 to the SCAR 17S. Personally, I own both and rather own the MK11.
http://fnforum.net/awesome-vid-by-larry-vickers-on-17-and-20-t27204.html
Thanks for the vid
A little late to the show but I own both the FN and the KAC. Both are great guns and I don't think you would have buyers remorse if you ended up with either one. Both are quite handy, recoil on both is superb, although I've changed out both brakes to AAC as I mainly shoot them suppressed. My personal preference is the FN as I have a shit ton of the 130g sitting in my basement and I can bring it slightly under MOA with 155 grain scenar handloads, which my AE also favors so it cuts down on the number of different loads I'm making. With the KAC I've gotten some INSANE groups, but it seems to prefer the 175g SMK, which I don't really buy as much anymore so I tend to shoot it less. As far as price goes, the FN is a cheaper initial investment, and YES you can find mags, you just have to really perform your due diligence and be willing to pay $50+ a mag at the current time, or pay $36 and wait 4 months from midway. KAC has the ever available pmag, which lots of people love (I personally don't care for them but love the KAC mag, but these are also pricey) so bear this in mind before purchasing. As far as the Larue goes, one of my buddies is a die hard larue fan and you could never get him to part with his OBR. I personally can't stand it and think it handles like a piggy (same reason I don't care for the LMT MWS, which I used to own and will say is a well built gun, just don't care for the handling), but different strokes for different folks and it works well for him so it wouldn't hurt to try and get your hands on as many of these different options as possible before you pull the trigger on a deal.
You can't go wrong with FN or KAC!
As far as parts availability for the FN goes, it's nowhere near where it should be at this point in time, but I've been able to snag a few extractors and firing pins, as well as other odds and ends. Parts are starting to trickle in. As far as KAC parts, no clue but I assume it will be easier than with FN, but still quite pricey.
Some folks alluded to issues with the SCAR. Please share.
Failure2Stop
04-28-11, 01:27
Some folks alluded to issues with the SCAR. Please share.
I don't know about the ones on the civilian market, but there are many more 17s with broken stocks and specific operating parts than I foresaw.
Magic_Salad0892
04-28-11, 03:41
Noveske builds a solid piece as well. I'm surprised nobody mentioned it.
Noveske builds a solid piece as well. I'm surprised nobody mentioned it.
I think mags are the only issue with that platform, right? i.e availability?
I think mags are the only issue with that platform, right? i.e availability?
Don’t they use the same ones as Armalight?
Don’t they use the same ones as Armalight?
Yeah they use armalite ones.
The problem was the older model of mags armalite made werent that great.
Their newer ones work well. Have not had any problems with them in my AR10.
They are available, just more expensive than pmags, not too much though, they occasionally have deals on them as low as 25-30$.
Thanks, I thought for some reason they used converted M14 shells.
Thanks, I thought for some reason they used converted M14 shells.
They did during the assault weapon ban, and those mags are junk. I have a few, dont work well at all.
Good discussion going here...
Interested to hear more about the SCAR breaking.
Also want to know why Titleist does not like his EMC.
Right now I'm leaning toward the SCAR.
All I have currently is the LMT MWS.
Good discussion going here...
Interested to hear more about the SCAR breaking.
Also want to know why Titleist does not like his EMC.
Right now I'm leaning toward the SCAR.
All I have currently is the LMT MWS.
~6000 rounds through my 17s with no failures
5000+ through 3 of my 16's with no failures other than ammo induced, one of them has more than 15000 through so far without issue, although I do keep spare extractors on hand as I've *heard* these will be the first thing to go.
Magic_Salad0892
04-28-11, 16:46
You could always get an Knights/LMT/Noveske upper, and slam it on a Knights/LMT ambidextrous lower.
Mainly referring to Noveske using non-standard magazines. I actually didn't know this.
You could always get an Knights/LMT/Noveske upper, and slam it on a Knights/LMT ambidextrous lower.
Mainly referring to Noveske using non-standard magazines. I actually didn't know this.
The Noveske upper is not compatible with the KAC or LMT lower, and afaik neither the LMT or KAC uppers or lowers are being sold as a stand alone unit :(
The Noveske upper is not compatible with the KAC or LMT lower, and afaik neither the LMT or KAC uppers or lowers are being sold as a stand alone unit :(
Exactly. And by the time you did the horsetrading to make that happen you wouldn't be saving any money. You'd probably be losing a bunch in the process.
And Spooky, sorry not dodging the question. I'm just trying to figure out my response in a way that's not "i dislike such and such about said product." But am instead trying to single out the things I felt were done better by another. I don't want this to become me bashing a product, I have done my best to NOT do that, and want to avoid it as best possible. So I'm just trying to be strategic in my wording.
QuietShootr
04-28-11, 18:48
Good discussion going here...
Interested to hear more about the SCAR breaking.
Also want to know why Titleist does not like his EMC.
Right now I'm leaning toward the SCAR.
All I have currently is the LMT MWS.
Going from an MWS to a SCAR17 feels like taking off your ruck at the end of a 12 mile hump. As long as you aren't primarily bench shooting, the SCAR is the heat.
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