View Full Version : Nobody But Colt?
I was traversing the Colt Mil/LE site and I noticed something. Colt makes a claim that is pretty far out there in my opinion.
Colt Defense LLC is the sole source supplier of the M4 Carbine to the US military and the only manufacturer worldwide that meets or exceeds all US military specifications for the weapon.
http://colt.com/mil/M4.asp
To claim that nobody but Colt meets or exceeds the TDP, is quite a claim. Is there some kind of technical reason Colt believes they can make that bold claim? Maybe because the actually machine all their parts?
I was traversing the Colt Mil/LE site and I noticed something. Colt makes a claim that is pretty far out there in my opinion.
Maybe because the actually machine all their parts?
Does Colt machine all their own parts? I think we have been down this road already.
CaptainDooley
03-10-11, 07:38
One guess would be that if they are the sole supplier to the military, they are the only ones required to take certain steps of government oversight - other people may build to the same technical specs (say BCM for example), but since they are not actually building them for the mil, I assume there's some steps that don't affect the rifle technically that they don't adhere to... Though I am just talking out of my ass, but from what I've gleaned from this website, that's what I assumed when I read that.
I was traversing the Colt Mil/LE site and I noticed something. Colt makes a claim that is pretty far out there in my opinion.
http://colt.com/mil/M4.asp
To claim that nobody but Colt meets or exceeds the TDP, is quite a claim. Is there some kind of technical reason Colt believes they can make that bold claim? Maybe because the actually machine all their parts?
Are there separate TDPs for the M4 vs. the M16? If so, I would think their claim is pretty accurate.
CaptainDooley
03-10-11, 08:04
Yes, separate TDP's.
RogerinTPA
03-10-11, 08:09
Colt is the sole source provider to the military for the M-4 platform, but not the M16A2/3/4s.
Actually they are probably correct.
Civilian shooters like myself that want a rifle that follows or exceeds the TDP still can't have everything the TDP calls for. Select fire is the big thing that comes to mind here.
So while a company like BCM may meet the TDP in every way possible for a civilian gun , it still doesn't have select fire.
.
The simplest answer is I think the TDP requires gov. inspectors to verify compliance to the TDP to be "milspec".
If you don't have a contract to supply the gov, then you aren't going to get the gov inspectors, if you don't get the inspections, you cannot be milspec.
So, Colt's claim is probably true, if nothing else, in at least this one regard. Kind of a Catch-22, though.
I wonder if that "LE/Government Use Only" stamping is "milspec".
.
Who else is making an actual M4?
Who else is making an actual M4?
FN....?
dudley2112
03-10-11, 09:16
Who else is making an actual M4?
colt canada C8 count? not the same i know but close.
Does Colt machine all their own parts? I think we have been down this road already.
What does this have to do with the claim being made?
AFAIK the statement quoted is correct.
What does this have to do with the claim being made?
AFAIK the statement quoted is correct.
Not sure what you are asking or disputing here.. A statement was made that colt makes all their parts.. i want to know if that statement is in fact a true statement...
You amaze me at just how selective you can be in your responses.. Why have you not addressed the claim by the OP that a possible reason is that colt makes their own parts.. Which I believe to be clearly false.. Can you answer that?
Not sure what you are asking or disputing here.. A statement was made that colt makes all their parts.. i want to know if that statement is in fact a true statement...
You amaze me at just how selective you can be in your responses.. Why have you not addressed the claim by the OP that a possible reason is that colt makes their own parts.. Which I believe to be clearly false.. Can you answer that?
Christ you're a sensitive one. Newflash, not everything is about you and some personal issue regarding you. :haha:
Whether I quoted him or you, the question remains the same.
What does Colt making all of their own parts, or not, have to do with the statement on their website?
Christ you're a sensitive one. Newflash, not everything is about you and some personal issue regarding you. :haha:
Whether I quoted him or you, the question remains the same.
What does Colt making all of their own parts, or not, have to do with the statement on their website?
No Rob.. i think you got that wrong.. You have been on me since I came here to this forum.. I don't think there is any question about that.. Sensitive? Why? Because the mighty Rob says so?
READ the message and my reply.. Do not twist things around to form some point that doesn't exhist.. I simply questioned the statement that the reason was BECAUSE COLT MAKES THEIR OWN PARTS.. That was it. Why in the would would you harp on that.? Can you answer the question?
jklaughrey
03-10-11, 10:21
Not sure what you are asking or disputing here.. A statement was made that colt makes all their parts.. i want to know if that statement is in fact a true statement...
You amaze me at just how selective you can be in your responses.. Why have you not addressed the claim by the OP that a possible reason is that colt makes their own parts.. Which I believe to be clearly false.. Can you answer that?
You really are a few bricks shy of a good cocaine seizure sometimes!
You should write a letter to Colt and ask if it vexes you so!
No Rob.. i think you got that wrong.. You have been on me since I came here to this forum.. I don't think there is any question about that.. Sensitive? Why? Because the mighty Rob says so?
READ the message and my reply.. Do not twist things around to form some point that doesn't exhist.. I simply questioned the statement that the reason was BECAUSE COLT MAKES THEIR OWN PARTS.. That was it. Why in the would would you harp on that.? Can you answer the question?
This is getting beyond silly. It's not personal, and you're not sensitive, but "You have been on me since I came here to this forum"? Which is it? You can't even un**** yourself in one individual post, let alone across multiple posts. :alcoholic:
I'm not harping on anything. Take off your special flower hat and pay attention. I quoted you, but I could have just as easily quoted the OP. It was easier to quote you because your post had only the content I wanted to quote, his I would have had to edit down.
Get over yourself.
Yes, I can answer your baseless question, which is that Colt does not make all of their own parts in their own factories. Nobody does.
thopkins22
03-10-11, 10:30
No Rob.. i think you got that wrong.. You have been on me since I came here to this forum.. I don't think there is any question about that.. Sensitive? Why? Because the mighty Rob says so?
READ the message and my reply.. Do not twist things around to form some point that doesn't exhist.. I simply questioned the statement that the reason was BECAUSE COLT MAKES THEIR OWN PARTS.. That was it. Why in the would would you harp on that.? Can you answer the question?
Because whether or not they produce all their own parts is irrelevant to whether or not they're the only ones producing a complete gun completely to the specs. Most of them seem to be able to be matched, some of them can't be like select fire(or rather they could be but aren't.)
I believe I've read a post from someone I deem knowledgeable that Colt are the only ones that make their receiver extensions a certain way. Beyond materials and dimensions, possibly forged vs. extruded or something. Rob_S...it might have been you if I'm remembering right.
I was traversing the Colt Mil/LE site and I noticed something. Colt makes a claim that is pretty far out there in my opinion.
http://colt.com/mil/M4.asp
To claim that nobody but Colt meets or exceeds the TDP, is quite a claim. Is there some kind of technical reason Colt believes they can make that bold claim? Maybe because the actually machine all their parts?
Yes. Colt can make that claim because they are (almost) the only ones who have the TDP and the only ones who manufacture to it.
A truism of sorts, but true none the less.
Not sure what you are asking or disputing here.. A statement was made that colt makes all their parts.. i want to know if that statement is in fact a true statement...
You amaze me at just how selective you can be in your responses.. Why have you not addressed the claim by the OP that a possible reason is that colt makes their own parts.. Which I believe to be clearly false.. Can you answer that?
What does that have to do with anything? The Op's "statements" were the topic at hand. Why take the thread in a direction that only you are interested in? If Colt subs out parts, who cares if the parts are made to THEIR specs? When you buy a BMW do you think BMW makes all the parts? NO. Does that make it not a BMW?
Your question was not meant to do anything other than insight a confrontational thread which there is no reason for....
Who makes Colts parts? Which parts are made by who? None of this have anything to do with the claims that Colt has made. That is the topic at hand, stick to it, and you wont have to worry about Rob or anyone else.
If you are that bothered by a member that likes to call it the way it is without sugar coating it for you... Leave, or ignore him, its actually very easy.
Who else is making an actual M4?
FN....?
Colt is sole source for the M4 and M4A1.
FN has manufactured some for trials, but they aren't an issue weapon.
The claim is technically true. It also shouldn't be too terribly important to someone who is looking to buy a rifle.
The 6920 doesn't "meet or exceed all US military specifications for the weapon", for instance.
Do they make the accu wedge? :dance3:
This thread is ridiculous and unfortunately it's going to be nothing but drama.
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