Federal "Flight Control Loads" Anybody tried them?

[toddackerman]

I sold (Like an idipt) my genuine "Scattergun Technologies" Shotty about a year ago. I had a Vang Comp and port job on it and it through patterns as tight as a Nun's habit!

I now have an 18" Remington, 870 IC Rifle Sighted barrel. (BTW...I love the rifle sights compared to Ghost Rings. Very accurate out to 100 yds. and very quick for me.)

Anyway...I really miss the 15 yd. 4" groups with Federel Tactical 00 Buck through that gun, and I have overheard similar results about this new ammo without a modification needed to improve the tightness of the pattern. I don't expect 4" at 15 yds. but all the pellets centered in the body area at 25 yds. would be great

What say those of you that have actually tried it?

It's pretty available from Ammoman at $100 for 50 rounds. I wouldn't use it for training, but it would be nice to have some in the SHTF box.

Thanks!

Tack

[ST911]

Recommended.

Federal Tactical 9-pellet OOB, Moss 590 (20"), 15yds:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/FCW59015YD.jpg

Same load and gun, 25yds:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/FCW59025YD.jpg

[MTR7]

I have some time testing this ammo. I tested the 2 3/4 inch, 12 gauge standard power 00 buck in a Moss. 590, M1 Super 90, Beretta 1201. All are IC choke guns, the Moss 590 is Vang comped. My tested was caused by my need to pattern my guns for a Stage Two Y.F.A. shotgun course that I just took. Please keep in mind that this is not conclusive, I do not have percentages or spread sheets. Patterns were measured based on a pre centered eight inch circle (the hit zone for a human)

The Test:
Pattern on target at distance.
Target IDPA Option type
Distances tested; 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 yards.
Five shots per ammo type, gun and distance
Guns were shot from a bench with a sand bag
Tested over three sessions

Ammo tested all OO buck:

Rem. standard
Rem. low recoil
Hornady Tap
Winchester standard
Winchester Ranger Low recoil
Winchester Black box prem.
Wolf
S&B
Fed. Prem. about two years old
Fed Prem. Flight control full power
Breneke (sic.?)
Fiochi (sic.) plated

Five round groups were fired at each distance.

The winner was the Fed. flight control, tap was second. Note that the Vanged Moss. gun would keep all nine pellets on a target at 40 yards. Way too far for buckshot, but interesting to see it happen.

Please remember that ever shot gun barrel is unique(Louis Awerbuck's knowledge not mine). The only thing that I have seen throw a tighter pattern is the Choke round and Poly shock round (LE only). And no I do not want to ever test this much 12 gauge again from a bench.

Hope this helps
Matthew

[toddackerman]

I have some time testing this ammo. I tested the 2 3/4 inch, 12 gauge standard power 00 buck in a Moss. 590, M1 Super 90, Beretta 1201. All are IC choke guns, the Moss 590 is Vang comped. My tested was caused by my need to pattern my guns for a Stage Two Y.F.A. shotgun course that I just took. Please keep in mind that this is not conclusive, I do not have percentages or spread sheets. Patterns were measured based on a pre centered eight inch circle (the hit zone for a human)

The Test:
Pattern on target at distance.
Target IDPA Option type
Distances tested; 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 yards.
Five shots per ammo type, gun and distance
Guns were shot from a bench with a sand bag
Tested over three sessions

Ammo tested all OO buck:

Rem. standard
Rem. low recoil
Hornady Tap
Winchester standard
Winchester Ranger Low recoil
Winchester Black box prem.
Wolf
S&B
Fed. Prem. about two years old
Fed Prem. Flight control full power
Breneke (sic.?)
Fiochi (sic.) plated

Five round groups were fired at each distance.

The winner was the Fed. flight control, tap was second. Note that the Vanged Moss. gun would keep all nine pellets on a target at 40 yards. Way too far for buckshot, but interesting to see it happen.

Please remember that ever shot gun barrel is unique(Louis Awerbuck's knowledge not mine). The only thing that I have seen throw a tighter pattern is the Choke round and Poly shock round (LE only). And no I do not want to ever test this much 12 gauge again from a bench.

Hope this helps
Matthew

Thanks Matthew and Skintop! Makes it pretty clear. Just what I needed.

I'll bet Hans Vang won't be pleased about this. He's such a great guy, but Shot Shell Technology has finallt caught up. Of course there is still the COmp. business which DOES reduce felt recoil by at leats 10-15% as noticed on my Vang Comp 870.

Tack

[Henchman]

The Fedearl LE 132 does produce some great patterns. On the other hand having the Vang Comp System has great benifits even with this ammunition, such as reduced recoil as noted along with reduced muzzel flash and rise. From my way of thinking the Vang Comp System is still a worth while modification / insurance because it does not keep you in the "box" of only being able to use one load for good patterns, and I believe that it helps the LE 132 stay in a tight pattern longer.

[Spooky130]

Tack,

Try this link - I know it is an auction site but I got some from this guy. No issues what so ever. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from him again. I think I had the ammo in about 4 days. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=81558581

If you paid Ammoman's price this would be a $500 case of ammo...

Spooky

[toddackerman]

Thanks Spooky.

That's a great price. Now I just need to decide if I need 250 rounds or not. It would be used to first Pattern and sight in, keep the gun, side saddle, and vest loaded with it (15 riunds total) , and the rest would go into the SHTF storage. I would train with #8 and the cheapest slugs I can find.

I wonder if he sells the 10 pack cartons of 5 per sleeve, which is how they come from the factory before they go into the "Brown Box Case".?

I really appreciate the effort though! ThankS!!!

Tack

[John Fettes]

Speer uses the same wad in their 8 pellet load. I have fired a few at the range from my old CYL bore 1976 vintage 870P. I was impressed. I bought a sleeve of 10 packs of five rounds. I have also bought some Gold Dots (9, 38, & 45) from them. If you go to their site,

http://www.floridabullet.net/

click on Speer Lawman Ammunition under Products, and look at the bottom of the page for an "in flight look" of the eight pellet flite control wad.

FWIW, I'm not a stock holder in this outfit; I just send them some money every now & then.

John

[Patrick Aherne]

The Flite Control wads and 8 pellet loads have made the Vang Comp system obsolete for most users. You just don't need it with these loads.

[shooter521]

Just tried some of this stuff based on recommendations here and elsewhere. I was shooting the LE133 00, which is the 8-pellet low-recoil load with the FC wad. Firing an 8-round mag through my Saiga-12 (19" barrel, IC choke), I was able to keep every pellet (that's 64 of 'em) on an 8-1/2"x11" sheet of paper at 25 yards. Outstanding performance in my book! The next-best load (Winchester Ranger 9-pellet 00) didn't even come close...

I bought my ammo from http://www.ammunitiontogo.com; price seemed good and they shipped quickly.

[John Fettes]

FWIW: Reduced recoil loads may not be 100% reliable in semi-auto's, especially when they are dirty. I had a problem years ago with the original Federal tactical 00 in a loaner SGT 14" 11-87. It was a neat package, but needed to be worked on to get it to work with the RR load.

John

[toddackerman]

The Flite Control wads and 8 pellet loads have made the Vang Comp system obsolete for most users. You just don't need it with these loads.

My feeling exactly!

Also...the Remington "Limb Saver" recoil pad makes the Vang Comp even less needed becuase it tames recoil very well.

All this said...I am a Hans Vang fan. I just think technology has caught up to his solution, as it always does.

[Patrick Aherne]

There is nothing wrong with a shotgun set-up by Hans vang & Co. In fact, the reliability mods they do with followers, mag extensions and safetys are more important, in my opinion, than the Vang comping on the barrel. Especially, with the availability of these eight pellet 00B loads that group so tightly.

[toddackerman]

There is nothing wrong with a shotgun set-up by Hans vang & Co. In fact, the reliability mods they do with followers, mag extensions and safetys are more important, in my opinion, than the Vang comping on the barrel. Especially, with the availability of these eight pellet 00B loads that group so tightly.


You're right...There isn't anything wrong with a Vang Comp setup.

However...everything that Hans does in his shop can be done in your home EXCEPT the porting, and back-bore that he is famous for. I've had his guns, and they are GTG.

The Vang Safety, Mag Extension, SS Follower, shortened stocks, forends w/ or w/o the SF Forend, side saddles etc. do not require a gunsmiths installation. So, if you feel you need a Vang Comp modification to the barrel, just send him the barrel and save the money you would be charged for adding in the "Drop In" accessories. I think it's around $275 for both the porting and back boring. This would easily pay for all of your accessories, except the SF Forend (highly recommended), and some ammo to practice with.

I don't advocate a Ghost Ring sight system as the accuracy needed to consistently hit something like a head shot at 50 yds. isn't there. Again, I have played with this for a long time before opting for a rifle sighted IC barrel. Many of the pros use either one based on personal preference, but I'm just as fast and "More Accurate" with the rifle sighted barrel. About $105.00 from Remington. As always with a "Scattergun"...the proper fit is the important criteria.

After testing the Flite Control loads (both high velocity, and low recoil) I feel there is no need for the porting or back boring unless you are extremely sensitive to recoil, which I am not.

[User Name]

For me it's a catch 22. I have tight patterning loads but by an large I prefer a shotgun for what its good for a good spread. If I want super tight patterns ie., Vang Comp or flight control I'll just use my one of my Ar's.

[toddackerman]

For me it's a catch 22. I have tight patterning loads but by an large I prefer a shotgun for what its good for a good spread. If I want super tight patterns ie., Vang Comp or flight control I'll just use my one of my Ar's.

Just as long as you can "account" for all your pellets in the "spread". That's why tight patterns are desired. Fliers mean that someone could catch a stray that is not intended for the projectile to hit. It's the 9, .33 caliber, 25 gn. projectiles that do the damage....... all into the target. Very devastating.

Don't get me wrong...my AR with 75 Gn. TAP is my primary weapon for CQB, but the 12 Ga. with proper loads (like the Federal 00127, or 00132) in the hands of someone who knows how to use it like Rob Haught is a close second. Much more so than my "Poodle Shooter". aka 1911 in 45 ACP.

[User Name]

Just as long as you can "account" for all your pellets in the "spread". That's why tight patterns are desired. Fliers mean that someone could catch a stray that is not intended for the projectile to hit. It's the 9, .33 caliber, 25 gn. projectiles that do the damage....... all into the target. Very devastating.

Don't get me wrong...my AR with 75 Gn. TAP is my primary weapon for CQB, but the 12 Ga. with proper loads (like the Federal 00127, or 00132) in the hands of someone who knows how to use it like Rob Haught is a close second. Much more so than my "Poodle Shooter". aka 1911 in 45 ACP.


Believe me I realize all the pellets "have your name on them". Hence when on duty I am issued Hornady TAP loads. Though if in the sticks or in my home ie., by myself I'd rather have a little more spread. Regardless 9 00 buck is good stuff tight pattern or not. +1 on Rob Haught btw. I prefer slugs for car stops, or large animals other than that I grab the AR.

[PLCedeno]

Any reason to pick 8 pellets over 9?

[John Fettes]

Any reason to pick 8 pellets over 9?

I wonder if it has to do with the size & construction of the wad, and the way the pellets are stacked in the wad?



John

[toddackerman]

I wonder if it has to do with the size & construction of the wad, and the way the pellets are stacked in the wad?



John

I took one apart, and unless you were to reduce the caliber of each pellet, a
9th pellet will not fit. Even with less plastic "Buffer Granules' which are minimal.