View Full Version : Fukushima Nuke Plant Blew Up.....
Belmont31R
03-12-11, 03:01
Not good people...Ive been keeping an eye on this and it has been iffy if they would be able to get this plant under control...just blew the entire containment building to pieces on one of the reactors.
http://www.twitvid.com/LICNU
Belmont31R
03-12-11, 03:07
Japanese TV is giving instructions for radiation exposure. Radiation levels are now deadly around the plant, and will spread with the winds.
Belmont31R
03-12-11, 03:09
Another video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugQ86r376CI
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a23/milli_vanilli1/fallout.jpg
Rmplstlskn
03-12-11, 08:04
Yeah, went to sleep wondering what news I would wake up to on the nuke plants.... Woke up to a video of the reactor building blowing up...
Big time NOT GOOD...
We also might as well kiss any NEW nuke plants in the USA goodbye for a while...
Rmpl
CNN reporting that explosion was caused by hydrogen and NOT from the reactor itself, the containment building and reactor are still in one piece,little or no radation was released. They are now going to try to flood the reactor with sea water to get it to cool down..This is still a very serious situation...
Yeah not the reactor that blew up. An outside shell around the containment vessel and reactor and too much steam buildup and blew the outside shell building.
This is an older style reactor that just got a 10 year new lease on life before decommissioning and is not the new technology used in most US reactors and stuff.
Rmplstlskn
03-12-11, 10:59
If not the reactor, that is bad news, just not completely sucks news...
I hope they get a handle on it...
Rmpl
How long till the rads hit California and how dispersed will it be?
thopkins22
03-12-11, 11:31
How long till the rads hit California and how dispersed will it be?
Dude...never. The fear will be the only thing that spreads. Unfortunately fear is many times more dangerous than the radiation. There have been a few nuclear guys on television trying to dispel the fear that the news networks are creating, but they seem to get washed over.
I wager that it's safer to stand 1/4 mile away from this reactor than it is to drive ten miles on I-10.
We're not all going to die :D The biggest impact would be the near future development of nuclear power. And I don't believe any reports of radiation outside the plant exist currently. The high levels where measured inside of a control room if memory serves me correctly.
kaiservontexas
03-12-11, 11:35
I-10 super battle driver houston crew! LOL
Yeah the fallout is not going to turn the West Coast of the USA glowing green. I do not know why people keep bringing that one up.
Reports are that the radiation levels are decreasing
I-10 super battle driver houston crew! LOL
Yeah the fallout is not going to turn the West Coast of the USA glowing green. I do not know why people keep bringing that one up.
just tell all the libs that they are "going green".
montanadave
03-12-11, 13:36
It was inevitable.
I put $10K in a uranium ETF two weeks ago.
I adhere to the Gomez Adams school of investment: "Buy High, Sell Low." :secret: It never fails.
The best thing that can be done for those guys right now is to have 4 big Cat DGs pull up outside the gate to provide reliable power. Problem is, everyone else in the country is busy right now. I wonder how long it will be until we send the GW over to help out. We've got hundreds of sailors on board trained to handle plant casualties.
CNN reporting that explosion was caused by hydrogen and NOT from the reactor itself, the containment building and reactor are still in one piece,little or no radation was released. They are now going to try to flood the reactor with sea water to get it to cool down..This is still a very serious situation...
Won't matter.
The "No Nukes" crowd has their new Three Mile Island. Huffington Post is right on it already.
kaiservontexas
03-12-11, 15:30
Won't matter.
The "No Nukes" crowd has their new Three Mile Island. Huffington Post is right on it already.
Yep, and I knew that was coming. I wonder how soon the West Coast will shut their's all down because it is a earthquake zone!
Heavy Metal
03-12-11, 17:59
How long till the rads hit California and how dispersed will it be?
Chernobyl didn't destroy Asia, this will have no effect on the US. And it is nowhere near as bad as Chernobly, even if it totally fails, which it won't. Not a Graphite core reactor.
Won't matter.
The "No Nukes" crowd has their new Three Mile Island. Huffington Post is right on it already.
As was that dude that's on msnbc at 9pm....
Heavy Metal
03-12-11, 22:04
Too bad you and only three people saw him.
it's being reported that No. 3 is now melting as well...
That sound you hear is the survival knobs fapping furiously.
An Undocumented Worker
03-13-11, 22:23
Here is the most usefull and arguably the most accurate description of what happened at Fukushima and the consequences of the disaster.
I am writing this text (Mar 12) to give you some peace of mind regarding some of the troubles in Japan, that is the safety of Japan’s nuclear reactors. Up front, the situation is serious, but under control. And this text is long! But you will know more about nuclear power plants after reading it than all journalists on this planet put together.
http://theenergycollective.com/barrybrook/53461/fukushima-nuclear-accident-simple-and-accurate-explanation
Read the article above for the whole story and in depth analysis
montanadave
03-14-11, 00:02
Here is the most usefull and arguably the most accurate description of what happened at Fukushima and the consequences of the disaster.
http://theenergycollective.com/barrybrook/53461/fukushima-nuclear-accident-simple-and-accurate-explanation
Read the article above for the whole story and in depth analysis
Assuming it's accurate, this article is easily the best I've read so far. It's unfortunate the media are more intent on selling the crisis then disseminating information which might alleviate anxiety.
Assuming it's accurate, this article is easily the best I've read so far. It's unfortunate the media are more intent on selling the crisis then disseminating information which might alleviate anxiety.
Hysteria sells.
Sadly, most nuke events (including Three Mile Island), with the exception of Chernobyl, were blown far out of proportion with respect to the danger actually posed.
Wouldn't be a problem except for it has cost us the use of nuclear energy as a fossil fuel alternative for about 30 years now all because Jane Fonda made a movie.
I don't know if these are the right elements that are allegedly in the steam from the melted rod casings, but the half-life of cesium-137 and iodine-131 are not seconds, but years. 30 and 2, respectively.
My source for the isotope names is the Washington Post, though. I don't know how accurate their stuff is. Anyone have better information on that?
dookie1481
03-14-11, 13:50
People are about as rational about nuclear power as they are about gun control. A reader comment from slashdot:
So, let's see. So far these plants have endured an earthquake 10 times what they were designed for (8.9 Richter earthquake. Design was for 7.9. Modulo distance/ground transmission from epicenter.), a 23 foot tsunami that took out backup generators and the switchyard taking out all but battery power, failures of the RCIC backup cooling system, and 2 massive hydrogen explosions that took out the buildings around the containments.
And thus far no significant release of radioactivity.
And we've got people saying the plants are fragile and unsafe?
What do you want? The North Koreans hitting it with bunker busters? A meteor strike?
Godzilla and the smog monster duking it out on the grounds?
Rmplstlskn
03-14-11, 14:31
I'm no nuke scientist, and know didly-squat... I admit when I first read what was happening and saw the explosion videos, I thought it was going to go downhill fast and it would be a nuclear disaster...
But as I read more and INFORMED information became available from EXPERTS in the field, I am now DAMNED IMPRESSED with the Japanese power plants!!! They are TOUGH!
Granted, it's not good and it will suck power-wise in Japan for quite a long time, but a nuclear armegeddon it is not...
Rmpl
I don't know if these are the right elements that are allegedly in the steam from the melted rod casings,
No, the stuff in the steam is N-14 nitrogen isotope with a 7 second or thereabouts half life and noble gas isotopes, again a few seconds or so.
but the half-life of cesium-137 and iodine-131 are not seconds, but years. 30 and 2, respectively.
Those are inside the cooling water or inside the facility etc in small amounts.
My source for the isotope names is the Washington Post, though. I don't know how accurate their stuff is. Anyone have better information on that?
Im having April 26th 1986 flashbacks!
To when my mom and dad used to put Iodine in my milk! I hate milk, and Iodine does not make it taste any better! My mom had to paint iodine on my butt because I refused to drink it lol.
Im not nuclear technician either, but here is my question. In Chernobyl, the meltdown occurred when an experiment gone wrong caused the power output to spike in reactor #4. In an attempt to slow the reaction the started to lower the graphite rods used to control the rate of reaction, due to the heat, the graphite rods could not be lowered because of the expansion of the core or what have you... Boom goes the dynamite.
Clearly these reactors are built differently, what do they use to control the reaction? Why can't they shut down the reactor? I understand they can't cool it adequately, why can't they "shut it down" If they used graphite control rods they could lower then, and effectively absorb enough radiation to slow down the reaction enough to where whatever cooling they have becomes adequate.
What do they use to control the reaction? Heavy water?
Im having April 26th 1986 flashbacks!
To when my mom and dad used to put Iodine in my milk! I hate milk, and Iodine does not make it taste any better! My mom had to paint iodine on my butt because I refused to drink it lol.
Im not nuclear technician either, but here is my question. In Chernobyl, the meltdown occurred when an experiment gone wrong caused the power output to spike in reactor #4. In an attempt to slow the reaction the started to lower the graphite rods used to control the rate of reaction, due to the heat, the graphite rods could not be lowered because of the expansion of the core or what have you... Boom goes the dynamite.
Clearly these reactors are built differently, what do they use to control the reaction? Why can't they shut down the reactor? I understand they can't cool it adequately, why can't they "shut it down" If they used graphite control rods they could lower then, and effectively absorb enough radiation to slow down the reaction enough to where whatever cooling they have becomes adequate.
What do they use to control the reaction? Heavy water?
They have been injecting the water with Boron which should help slow the reaction. The problem as I understand it is the pressure in the chamber is making it almost impossible to tell if the Boron injected water is making it to the core.
Rmplstlskn
03-14-11, 15:17
I understand they can't cool it adequately, why can't they "shut it down"
I saw a UK nuke geek talk about this... The reactors ARE shut down. What their issue is now is the RESIDUAL heat of the reactions already atken place... which is IN DECLINE... Just not fast enough to have the inoperable cooling system remove the heat, thus the explosions of steam...
Rmpl
Belmont31R
03-14-11, 16:00
it's being reported that No. 3 is now melting as well...
#3 blew its top, too...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsdpqZR0UIs
Clearly these reactors are built differently, what do they use to control the reaction? Why can't they shut down the reactor? I understand they can't cool it adequately, why can't they "shut it down" If they used graphite control rods they could lower then, and effectively absorb enough radiation to slow down the reaction enough to where whatever cooling they have becomes adequate.
What do they use to control the reaction? Heavy water?
I saw a UK nuke geek talk about this... The reactors ARE shut down. What their issue is now is the RESIDUAL heat of the reactions already atken place... which is IN DECLINE... Just not fast enough to have the inoperable cooling system remove the heat, thus the explosions of steam...
Rmpl
indeed... "shut down" for a nuke reactor means control rods fully inserted ("fully" meaning the clearance required to stop fission), turbines opened, water at full valve. but, as rmpl stated, its still hot. decay is still occurring, and produces enough heat, by itself, to melt the core. according to the article, the base of the core itself is made out of graphite- the article didn't state it, but i'm assuming that's because graphite is extremely neutron-absorbing. if the core were to melt completely, the molten fuel rods would fall to the graphite base, where they'd be neutralized. if the core is capable of containing this kind of heat, a full-scale melt-down would be fully contained within the core.
i think the panic right now isn't to prevent any kind of humanitarian disaster- it's to prevent a financial disaster. they're desperately trying to save the reactors. as it is, the cores are still salvageable... even with their housings blown to hell and the fuel rods utterly ruined. if they can just keep it cool enough for long enough, they can probably repair the reactors on-site and get them back up sometime in the next year. the worst case scenario right now is that they'll have to be scrapped for salvage.
Belmont31R
03-14-11, 18:31
Explosion at #2 reactor with probable breach of primary containment according to Jap officials. Workers have been evacuated.
Explosion at #2 reactor with probable breach of primary containment according to Jap officials. Workers have been evacuated.
TV or internet? i'm not finding it
Belmont31R
03-14-11, 18:50
TV or internet? i'm not finding it
Watching NHK news with a press conference with the TEPCO execs. They say the rods are exposed 2.7M.
Worker evac is for all non-essentials....not everyone.
bbk, 10-4
I did not realize that residual heat from in the fuel rods even after the reactor has been scrubbed was enough to melt the fuel and containment vessel. But I suppose with zero coolant flowing though the reactor this is possible.
I instantly said to my GF as we were watching this one TV that they are not trying to prevent an ecological disaster, they are trying to salvage what they can from the damaged reactor, so I agree with you 100%
Fox news also reported this morning that the core is not exposed to the air on one of the reactors, not sure which one.
Like I said, this brings back a lot of really creepy memories... having Engineers for both parents and 2 grandparents, I was probably the only kid in 1st grade in Kiev who could instantly recite the inner workings of Reactor #4 at Chernobyl lol. Very creepy.
REACTOR 4 JUST WENT.. and is now burning.
man... id been under the impression 4-6 were all fine
this might be premature, but its starting to look like they've been bullshitting about the whole situation.
---
"harmful radioactive material" has now officially been ejected into the atmosphere... the japanese government is instructing everyone to close their doors and windows, turn off all HVAC units, warning people to stay inside and brush themselves off well before going inside. sounds like the leak is coming from reactor 2, but i don't think anybody really knows whats going on at this point.
general evacuation 0-20km, with people "urged to stay inside" between 20-30km of the plant. although most people have already long since left.
woodandsteel
03-14-11, 23:07
I've been following this story thru this link that was sent to me. Granted this is a pro-nuclear power group. But, they appear to be honest and forthcoming with their information.
http://www.nei.org/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/
REACTOR 4 JUST WENT.. and is now burning.
man... id been under the impression 4-6 were all fine
this might be premature, but its starting to look like they've been bullshitting about the whole situation.
---
"harmful radioactive material" has now officially been ejected into the atmosphere... the japanese government is instructing everyone to close their doors and windows, turn off all HVAC units, warning people to stay inside and brush themselves off well before going inside. sounds like the leak is coming from reactor 2, but i don't think anybody really knows whats going on at this point.
general evacuation 0-20km, with people "urged to stay inside" between 20-30km of the plant. although most people have already long since left.
I'm almost sure that the Japanese are lying about this in order to prevent foreign rescuers from running for their lives as far away frm the region as possible.
Almost as bad as when we found out about Chernobyl from our relatives living in the US some 6 days after it happened...
What will staying inside do? Last time I checked I doubt those houses are air-tight or have lead-lined walls... it may prevent them from absorbing radioactive isotopes directly, but they are still going to get irradiated through non direct contact with radioactive materials being ejected from the exposed core and explosions.
They need to get the f*ck out! I know its not easy to evacuate additional people after all that has happened, but I think its clear that the Japanese are not being honest with the international press and their citizens in order not to cause a panic.
this might be premature, but its starting to look like they've been bullshitting about the whole situation.
Japanese lie to save face? Never! :rolleyes: Check this out: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/14/3163785.htm?section=justin
Why wouldn't fall out reach the U.S.? Plenty of other shit from Asia gets here on the wind.
http://newscenter.lbl.gov/feature-stories/2010/12/01/lead-isotopes-air-pollution/
About a third of the airborne lead particles recently collected at two sites in the San Francisco Bay Area came from Asia, a finding that underscores the far-flung impacts of air pollution and heralds a new way to learn more about its journey across vast distances.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/business/worldbusiness/11chinacoal.html?_r=1
http://news.mongabay.com/2008/0522-ucsc_cec_ballon.html
Ridge_Runner_5
03-16-11, 19:22
The Japanese in WW2 launched balloons with incendiary bombs on board, that killed several people and started many forest fires in the Pacific Northwest.
The Japanese in WW2 launched balloons with incendiary bombs on board, that killed several people and started many forest fires in the Pacific Northwest.
Just informationally here is some info on that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon
Interestingly, one landed near some Manhattan project area and cut off power to a reactor cooling system (backups kicked in and it was not a problem).
Why wouldn't fall out reach the U.S.? Plenty of other shit from Asia gets here on the wind.
http://newscenter.lbl.gov/feature-stories/2010/12/01/lead-isotopes-air-pollution/
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/business/worldbusiness/11chinacoal.html?_r=1
http://news.mongabay.com/2008/0522-ucsc_cec_ballon.html
detectable radiation probably will reach the US.. but not a harmful amount. even chernobyl, which ejected significantly more, and a much more harmful type, didn't drop anything detectably harmful farther than 1,000 miles. japan is 4,600 miles away from the Pacific coast.
I've been following this story thru this link that was sent to me. Granted this is a pro-nuclear power group. But, they appear to be honest and forthcoming with their information.
http://www.nei.org/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/
I have been following this. I would recommend that everyone read this a few times a day. It seems to be the best info out there on actually what is happening without all the sensationalist "journalist" bull-crap.
I've been following this story thru this link that was sent to me. Granted this is a pro-nuclear power group. But, they appear to be honest and forthcoming with their information.
http://www.nei.org/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/
30 mrems from 20km away from the plant? unless my understanding of these things is wrong, that sounds pretty bad. 30mrems isn't anything for a single dose, but you can't inhabit an area emitting 30 mrem/hr... in 12 hours, you'd have already doubled your yearly background absorption.
THIS guy says it'll be worse than chernobyl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7JvuUwpq40
doing a little background research, it looks like this guy, Arnold Gundersen, has a habit of shitting on the nuclear energy industry in general, so, naturally, he'd be inclined to side with the "apocalypse" camp.
what he's saying about radiation levels being too high for humans to continue to fight the meltdowns rings true- i've been wondering about that since this all started. whether it's hydrogen detonations seemingly left and right, or radiation levels getting far too high to work in, it just doesn't seem like people can tolerate much more of this. and once the area is un-manable, what then?
---
also-
i've been reading a bit more about the dangers of meltdowns.. one of the biggest concerns months after chernobyl was that the fuel would reignite itself. i've been under the impression that once the fission reaction stops in fissile material, it's no longer in danger of nuclear detonation... but apparently that's not true. the material CAN, in fact, re-initiate itself and detonate. the combustion effect of a built bomb isn't there, but it's still explosive, and the potential for high altitude ejection of very dirty radioactive material is there.
i've flipped back and forth on all of this, based on all the varying "expert" opinions i've been reading. people with vetted backgrounds and seemingly very qualified opinions giving the full spectrum of outcomes.. i've come to the conclusion that NOBODY knows what the **** is going on, and that all speculation should be taken with a massive grain of iodized salt. but i can tell you that if i was on that island, if my family was on that island, we'd be getting the hell out regardless of what anybody says. yesterday.
Rmplstlskn
03-17-11, 07:31
what he's saying about radiation levels being too high for humans to continue to fight the meltdowns rings true- i've been wondering about that since this all started.
Japanese culture produces SOME people that sacrifice their lives for the motherland and for honor... Not saying it is ideal the way they do it, but it is what it is...
There will be those who willingly enter radioactive zones to fight this knowing they will soon die. I think there already are those who have done this over there... In contrast, places like North Korea or China would just ORDER people in there...
I think Japan will get this under control eventually. But I do think that area will be changed for a very long time...
Rmpl
Rmplstlskn
03-17-11, 08:51
Not sure if it has been posted in M4C yet, but a good site...
Radiation Network (http://radiationnetwork.com/)
Rmpl
Fear of Japan's nuclear crisis far exceeds actual risks, say scientists - CSMonitor.com
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2011/0317/Fear-of-Japan-s-nuclear-crisis-far-exceeds-actual-risks-say-scientists
---
In case anyone was wondering
Fukushima Dai-ichi means Fukushima 1
Fukushima Dai-ni means Fukushima 2
(ichi is one and ni is two).
japan acts like everything is OK and blocks information.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gGuQJzD-U
japan acts like everything is OK and blocks information.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15gGuQJzD-U
Any confirmation or substantiation of this? (I did not watch the whole thing but did see what he claims in the title).
I am going to use Logmein and log in to my MIL computer in Japan and see what I can do on YouTube
I dare say, the Soviets handled their meltdown alot better than Japan. On the first day, the Sovs had 150 firefighters pouring water into the reactor, by the 3rd day they had 80 helicopters dropping boronated sandbags into the cavity.
DaBears_85
03-17-11, 18:09
Deleted.
J
I dare say, the Soviets handled their meltdown alot better than Japan. On the first day, the Sovs had 150 firefighters pouring water into the reactor, by the 3rd day they had 80 helicopters dropping boronated sandbags into the cavity.
i totally disagree. both these efforts were largely in vain, and cost hundreds of first-responder lives. the firefighters got the extraneous fires put out, but after pilots received lethal doses of radiation dropping those bags, they discovered NONE had had any effect, or even made it into the core. the efforts were truly heroic, but mostly wasted. plus, that was a totally different situation- a core excursion is a WAY worse situation that we're seeing in japan so far.
only history will tell how the japanese have responded. what we're seeing right now is just second hand reports from people looking in. wait till we hear the tales from those who are actually there, right now too busy trying to save north central japan from nuclear holocaust to tell the tale.
thopkins22
03-17-11, 18:21
Japan radiation sets off O'Hare airport alarms (http://m.cbsnews.com/fullstory.rbml?feed_id=1&catid=20044341&videofeed=37)
The link is to the CBS mobile site, though it should redirect to the full site for you desktop users.
J
It does not. The proper link is http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/17/national/main20044341.shtml?tag=stack
montanadave
03-17-11, 19:20
A rather grim assessment of the Japanese response currently available on the Reuters website:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/17/us-japan-quake-meltdown-specialreport-idUSTRE72G65Z20110317?pageNumber=1
http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2011/03/17/press-briefing
white house press brief on the situation... watching currently, no opinions yet.
you might want to let it buffer for a bit before you start watching. :rolleyes:
montanadave
03-17-11, 22:59
The BBC is reporting that they have succeeded in laying in power cable to Reactor 2. No word on whether circulating pumps, control systems, etc. are operational.
Certainly begs the question as to why external power wasn't restored earlier. Seems like power could have been provided from ship-based generators much sooner.
i totally disagree. both these efforts were largely in vain, and cost hundreds of first-responder lives. the firefighters got the extraneous fires put out, but after pilots received lethal doses of radiation dropping those bags, they discovered NONE had had any effect, or even made it into the core. the efforts were truly heroic, but mostly wasted. plus, that was a totally different situation- a core excursion is a WAY worse situation that we're seeing in japan so far.
only history will tell how the japanese have responded. what we're seeing right now is just second hand reports from people looking in. wait till we hear the tales from those who are actually there, right now too busy trying to save north central japan from nuclear holocaust to tell the tale.
the sovs were just winging it, just like japan is doing now. 4 flights of water missions per day? might as well piss on it from 500 ft. they let all 4 reactors blow and i'm sure they are all melted down by now. #3 was melting on the Saturday when it blew and they all blew up in succession.
all along, they are hiding something. look up the Tokaimura nuclear accident. also, watch the battle of chernobyl on youtube.
The reactors are under control it seems, the battle now is the "spent fuel" pool. They are trying to get extra water in the spent fuel pools of the various reactors.
The reactors are under control it seems, the battle now is the "spent fuel" pool. They are trying to get extra water in the spent fuel pools of the various reactors.
venting the radioactive cores to the air and the spewing of radioactive vapors is not "under control" until the whole thing is buried in boronated concrete. it also needs some ventilation and scrubbers so it doesnt heat up again under all that concrete and go critical.
Cagemonkey
03-18-11, 13:59
US company in Florida is sending Radiation Resistant Suits to the Japanese Govt. http://video.foxnews.com/v/4593421/florida-company-donates-hazard-suits-to-japan-/?playlist_id=86857
venting the radioactive cores to the air and the spewing of radioactive vapors is not "under control" until the whole thing is buried in boronated concrete.
Except that does not seem to be happening from the reactors. The radiation leakage seems to be coming from the spent fuel holding pools.
it also needs some ventilation and scrubbers so it doesnt heat up again under all that concrete and go critical.
Except that does not seem to be happening from the reactors. The radiation leakage seems to be coming from the spent fuel holding pools.
Japanese officials said just today that 3% of the fuel has melted and radioactive material has leaked into the environment. They would not have experienced hydrogen explosions unless at least the secondary container had been breached. We can place bets now if you want but I'm going to say at least half or more of the nuclear fuel has melted down in at least 3 of the 6 reactors. Each one of the huge spikes that we saw in radiation was the primary containers being breached.
Japanese officials said just today that 3% of the fuel has melted and radioactive material has leaked into the environment. They would not have experienced hydrogen explosions unless at least the secondary container had been breached. We can place bets now if you want but I'm going to say at least half or more of the nuclear fuel has melted down in at least 3 of the 6 reactors. Each one of the huge spikes that we saw in radiation was the primary containers being breached.
Funny, as the officials have said the primary containers are not breached.
"
UPDATE AS OF 11:20 A.M. EDT, FRIDAY, MARCH 18:
Reactors 1, 2 and 3 at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant are in stable condition, with workers continuing to provide seawater cooling into the reactors. Containment integrity is believed to be intact on reactors 1, 2 and 3, and containment building pressures are elevated but are within design limits.
"
The Hydrogen came from byproduct reaction, not primary fuel problems, and is not indicative of breaching of primary containment.
Funny, as the officials have said the primary containers are not breached.
"
UPDATE AS OF 11:20 A.M. EDT, FRIDAY, MARCH 18:
Reactors 1, 2 and 3 at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant are in stable condition, with workers continuing to provide seawater cooling into the reactors. Containment integrity is believed to be intact on reactors 1, 2 and 3, and containment building pressures are elevated but are within design limits.
"
The Hydrogen came from byproduct reaction, not primary fuel problems, and is not indicative of breaching of primary containment.
Do you believe everything "officials" tell you?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367684/Nuclear-plant-chief-weeps-Japanese-finally-admit-radiation-leak-kill-people.html
Do you believe everything "officials" tell you?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367684/Nuclear-plant-chief-weeps-Japanese-finally-admit-radiation-leak-kill-people.html
Nothing I said is contradicted by this article. Additionally, I believe the SMEs. The info I posted comes from SMEs here in the USA. They have a lot more credibility than journalists who don't know a thing about nuclear power plants or nuclear physics who are pontificating about things they have no clue on.
i haven't seen anything that indicates they're even confident that there have been no primary breeches, aside from the statement "we're confident...." :rolleyes:
i don't think there necessarily has to have been a breech to account for the elevated radiation. they've been dealing with radioactive flash steam from inside the vessels from the moment they burned off and started to melt. after days of this, is should be no surprise that dangerous levels of radiation might accumulate.
HOWEVER, the fact that readings are still very high at unit 3 does pique my interest... i haven't seen anything about this emphasized, or even really mentioned, in all the media reports- but unit 3, of the 6 units at fukushima I, is the only MOX reactor, using a mixture of uranium235 and plutonium238. of the 6, it's the dirtiest, and the one you don't want to have a breech, let alone excursion. plutonium235 emits a nasty neutron radiation that doesn't contain well, and has the potential for radio-activation.... making the things exposed to it radioactive also. a breech at 3 would likely irradiate the surrounding area, and you'd have a situation where levels go down everywhere except around 3.
coincidence? quite possibly. i have no opinion either way.
dookie1481
03-18-11, 19:49
Do you believe everything "officials" tell you?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1367684/Nuclear-plant-chief-weeps-Japanese-finally-admit-radiation-leak-kill-people.html
Daily mail is only slightly more credible than Alex Jones.
Japanese culture produces SOME people that sacrifice their lives for the motherland and for honor... Not saying it is ideal the way they do it, but it is what it is...
There will be those who willingly enter radioactive zones to fight this knowing they will soon die. I think there already are those who have done this over there... In contrast, places like North Korea or China would just ORDER people in there...
I think Japan will get this under control eventually. But I do think that area will be changed for a very long time...
Rmpl
Though, as said before, the Soviet Army was ordered into Chernobyl and Prityat, their actions were no less heroic.
The 18 year old boys who ran onto the roof for 45 seconds at a time to throw down pieces of graphite which once were control rods with nothing more than rubber gloves were heroes to me, despite their actions being in vain and the danger being hidden from them.
My father was a Captain in the Soviet Air Force at the time and even though he was not on active duty, he was ordered into the area, he ended up not having to go because I was so young but he lost 4 friends who were helicopter pilots and flying those non stop sorties to dump sand on the reactor. In vain or not, those guys were officers and knew exactly how long they would have to live. They were heroes as well.
Japan is not the only place where people lay down their lives for love of country.
I dare say, the Soviets handled their meltdown alot better than Japan. On the first day, the Sovs had 150 firefighters pouring water into the reactor, by the 3rd day they had 80 helicopters dropping boronated sandbags into the cavity.
The firefighters were called and told that it was a simple fire, they had no idea that the reactor core was exposed. Im pretty sure they all died. Locals sat on the river bank no more then a few miles from the reactor watching the "Fireworks"... Oh yeah... they handles it well lol.
My family did not find out until my family called from the US and we were only 90miles away in Kiev. My father was not ordered in until about 15 days after the accident, by that time however my mom took me to stay with relatives on the border with Poland.
It was a total clusterf*ck in the Ukraine.. no one knew anything and the handling of the disaster was a disaster in and of itself.
ForTehNguyen
03-19-11, 16:10
long read but a good technical sequence of events without the BS fearmongering and armchair quarterbacks
Skip down to "What happened at Fukushima (as of March 12, 2011)"
http://theenergycollective.com/barrybrook/53461/fukushima-nuclear-accident-simple-and-accurate-explanation
Daily mail is only slightly more credible than Alex Jones.
And the source was directly from NHK Japan.
Though, as said before, the Soviet Army was ordered into Chernobyl and Prityat, their actions were no less heroic.
The 18 year old boys who ran onto the roof for 45 seconds at a time to throw down pieces of graphite which once were control rods with nothing more than rubber gloves were heroes to me, despite their actions being in vain and the danger being hidden from them.
My father was a Captain in the Soviet Air Force at the time and even though he was not on active duty, he was ordered into the area, he ended up not having to go because I was so young but he lost 4 friends who were helicopter pilots and flying those non stop sorties to dump sand on the reactor. In vain or not, those guys were officers and knew exactly how long they would have to live. They were heroes as well.
Japan is not the only place where people lay down their lives for love of country.
The firefighters were called and told that it was a simple fire, they had no idea that the reactor core was exposed. Im pretty sure they all died. Locals sat on the river bank no more then a few miles from the reactor watching the "Fireworks"... Oh yeah... they handles it well lol.
My family did not find out until my family called from the US and we were only 90miles away in Kiev. My father was not ordered in until about 15 days after the accident, by that time however my mom took me to stay with relatives on the border with Poland.
It was a total clusterf*ck in the Ukraine.. no one knew anything and the handling of the disaster was a disaster in and of itself.
Many did die but the plant operators at least acted swiftly. Japan is just gradually realizing that this is going to have a HUMAN toll. The Japanese people will have to clean all this up, they cannot get slave labor to do it for them. THey are going to have to live in a radioactive wasteland with food , air, soil, and water contamination....just radioactive contamination in general! People will be eating contaminated FISH! Jesus, this is bad. They've had 3, count them THREE, nuclear events on their soil already.
montanadave
03-21-11, 11:44
For some inexplicable reason, I don't think this particular toy set is going to be flyin' off the shelves this Christmas:
http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/atomictoys/gilbertu238lab.htm
Jesus, this is bad. They've had 3, count them THREE, nuclear events on their soil already.
Edit: so are you talking about the 3 reactors? Or the bombings in WWII as well?
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