View Full Version : Can this type of jam be cleared in the field?
Buckshot Barry
03-12-11, 20:01
If a round was to be stuck in the chamber, the extractor was to rip off the rim of the case, and there was a double feed, how would you clear this?
I don't think the upper could be pivoted up because the bolt carrier would be in the buffer tube. I'm not sure that pushing both upper retaining pins would enable the upper and lower to be separated either. I don't want to risk damaging my 6920 by testing this.
Is there any experience here?
Mortar it on the stock............if you're saying there is a case stuck in the chamber with the base ripped off and a fresh round stuck in the broken case? I had that happen once...locked the gun up. Had to mortar it to get it free. Luckily when it came out the fresh round pulled out the broken case with it.
It's called a malfunction, jam goes onto toast or a sandwich with peanut butter.
I would lock the bolt to the rear, remove the magazine and then put my USGI cleaning rod in the barrel and tap it out.
If a round was to be stuck in the chamber, the extractor was to rip off the rim of the case, and there was a double feed, how would you clear this?
I don't think the upper could be pivoted up because the bolt carrier would be in the buffer tube. I'm not sure that pushing both upper retaining pins would enable the upper and lower to be separated either. I don't want to risk damaging my 6920 by testing this.
Is there any experience here?
jonconsiglio
03-12-11, 21:02
I'd probably lock the bolt to the rear, strip the mag then either rack it a few time or reach in the magwell to try to loosen what's there. If none of that worked and mortaring didn't either, which in this instance it may not since the extrator is no longer contacting the rim, I'd shove a rod down the barrel and smack it a couple times (that's saying my case or range bag is near by).
EDIT - every time, I swear.
is the rim just torn out at the extractor, or is the entire head torn off?
Well once you remove the mag and clear the double feed (although the stuck round would still be in the chamber), the BCG should still close fully, allowing you to remove the upper receiver if needed. But the only way to remove the round would still be to shove the round out with a rod from the muzzle end.
Lock it back, drop mag, clear any troublesome rounds, tap out round with cleaning rod.
It's called a malfunction, jam goes onto toast or a sandwich with peanut butter.
There is more than one word to describe such an occurrence on this platform. ;)
There is more than one word to describe such an occurrence on this platform. ;)
and you can call a "magazine" a "clip," or a "cartridge" a "bullet," but you're still gonna hear about it.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
03-12-11, 21:36
If I understand it correctly, youve basically got a double feed malf. with a rimless case lodged in the breech? If this were the case, you would clear it by placing the weapon on safe, removing the magazine, locking the bolt to the rear, removing the double feed, and then dislodging the stuck case. This isnt something that can easily be done in a firefight I assume because it would require using a shell extractor or tapping the case out with a rod or dowel. Of course, it's been a long day so take it easy on me if I'm wrong.
Or I could give you the cookie cutter response, "Should of bought a brand XXXXX!"
Guns-up.50
03-12-11, 21:43
Mortar it on the stock............if you're saying there is a case stuck in the chamber with the base ripped off and a fresh round stuck in the broken case? I had that happen once...locked the gun up. Had to mortar it to get it free. Luckily when it came out the fresh round pulled out the broken case with it.
If you are going to "mortar" the rifle make sure your stock is collapsed all the way, if not you will shear the locking pin off. Hit the stock square on the ground, they can break (watched it happen on a Colt in the U.S.M.C) I believe the malfunction is called a ruptured cartridge and i think there is a tool for this. We had them for machinguns
Heavy Metal
03-12-11, 22:01
Well once you remove the mag and clear the double feed (although the stuck round would still be in the chamber), the BCG should still close fully, allowing you to remove the upper receiver if needed. But the only way to remove the round would still be to shove the round out with a rod from the muzzle end.
This isn't a double feed, it is a failure to extract. A double feed is two live rounds.
Just because you have an empty casing and a live round does not make it a double feed. The casing wasn't fed in that cycle.
People come saying they have double feeds when they have FTE's and we waste a page getting him to check his magazines.
You are correct. This is a failure to extract which then resulted in a failure to feed. I am still trying to figure out why he posted this in such a manner? Did it happen or is it a "what if" scenario?
This isn't a double feed, it is a failure to extract. A double feed is two live rounds.
Just because you have an empty casing and a live round does not make it a double feed. The casing wasn't fed in that cycle.
People come saying they have double feeds when they have FTE's and we waste a page getting him to check his magazines.
Smuckatelli
03-12-11, 23:17
Did it happen or is it a "what if" scenario?
I think he is doing a "what if" scenario.
I 'think' that with his scenario the 2nd round is stuck in the tail end of the first round that had it's rim torn off. If this is the set up, first thing immediate action followed by deploying his secondary weapon. Next is to lock the BCG and 'wiggle' the second round out with something like a screw driver. Once the second round is out, breakdown the rifle and clear the FTE.
if the rim is torn completely off, and we've got a true "broken shell," a broken shell extractor is gonna be the answer. a rod probably isn't going to get it.
as far as not being able to break open the weapon- nothing in this scenario requires breaking open the weapon. if only part of the rim is torn out, then the next round probably isn't gong to get "stuck"- it'll be easy enough to clear and get out of the equation.. then you can ram the case out with a cleaning rod, as mentioned, or, if you dont have a cleaning rod, you CAN pop the upper and pry the case out with a screw driver from the bottom.
It's called a malfunction, jam goes onto toast or a sandwich with peanut butter.
I would lock the bolt to the rear, remove the magazine and then put my USGI cleaning rod in the barrel and tap it out.
Yup, cleaning rod is the only way I know of to get that sucker out. I learned it the hard way after driving an hour out into the desert once upon a time ago and having a rifle jam on the first mag with no rod.
Somebody needs to invent a tool that fits in a grip or stock compartment that can clear it out...
ETA: This is for you Gunz (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFRbZJXjWIA).
Heavy Metal
03-12-11, 23:46
if the rim is torn completely off, and we've got a true "broken shell," a broken shell extractor is gonna be the answer. a rod probably isn't going to get it.
Actually, a broken shell would be a torn head. A torn rim would not allow the use of a BS Extractor and would allow the use of a cleaning rod.
Heavy Metal
03-12-11, 23:52
BTW,
Always 'float' the rod in the first few tries where you pinch it between your thumb and forefinger and just sling it into the barrel. Your hands should slide over the muzzle like you are dropping a round into a mortar tube. Let the fast moving rod contact the inside of the case and let the inertia pop it out. Try this before you resort to pounding it like a tent peg.
With a bit of practice, you can pop the case most of the time. Your hand should not even be touching the rod when it impacts the case.
This protects the rifling against flexing the rod while pounding it. Protects the rod too.
Actually, a broken shell would be a torn head. A torn rim would not allow the use of a BS Extractor and would allow the use of a cleaning rod.
s'what i meant.
and you can call a "magazine" a "clip," or a "cartridge" a "bullet," but you're still gonna hear about it.
It was a joke. There was some hooplah here recently over referring to a gun design as a "platform."
Buckshot Barry
03-13-11, 11:20
You are correct. This is a failure to extract which then resulted in a failure to feed. I am still trying to figure out why he posted this in such a manner? Did it happen or is it a "what if" scenario?
This happened on the first round out of my Colt MT6601 in 1985. I had cleaned the barrel before firing, but not the chamber. We used a cleaning rod at the range.
I cleaned the chamber on my Colt LE6920 before firing it in 2009. Haven't had any issues with this firearm.
This was one of the biggest problems with the original M16s and test M16s under project Agile during the Vietnam War early-mid 60s.
Reports claimed that effectively the guns turned into single shot rifles and many soldiers died trying to clear the problem with cleaning rods and sticks while under fire.
Which has nothing to do with the AR's of today at all.
This was one of the biggest problems with the original M16s and test M16s under project Agile during the Vietnam War early-mid 60s.
Reports claimed that effectively the guns turned into single shot rifles and many soldiers died trying to clear the problem with cleaning rods and sticks while under fire.
Speaking of "malfunction(s)," saw this one here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ovLEaJXBk
Which has nothing to do with the AR's of today at all.
You are correct in that assessment.
Just so the OP is clear, you can disassemble the upper from the lower without the bolt being forward. You simply remove the magazine, pop both pins, and slide the upper forward. This is how you have to disassemble one of those Bushmaster Carbon-atrocities. I hate those things. I swear at least once a month some goof comes out of the range with a live 556 round stuck in that retarded thing's 223 chamber, and I have to disassemble it to clear it.
. This is how you have to disassemble one of those Bushmaster Carbon-atrocities. I hate those things. I swear at least once a month some goof comes out of the range with a live 556 round stuck in that retarded thing's 223 chamber, and I have to disassemble it to clear it.
Knew a guy that thought he was the bees knees for having the carbon Bushmasters it jammed every other shot .I tried to explain the 223 chamber and 5.56 chamber different size .
he looked at me like I had just insulted his mother and told me "the elite in the Military use this weapon":haha:
that was the first and last times we went to the range together.about a month later the police got the weapon from him after he was busted with weed .they destroyed it best thing for it I thought:D
Buckshot Barry
03-14-11, 12:51
Just so the OP is clear, you can disassemble the upper from the lower without the bolt being forward. You simply remove the magazine, pop both pins, and slide the upper forward. This is how you have to disassemble one of those Bushmaster Carbon-atrocities. I hate those things. I swear at least once a month some goof comes out of the range with a live 556 round stuck in that retarded thing's 223 chamber, and I have to disassemble it to clear it.
Thank you sir. This was the answer I was looking for.
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