View Full Version : H&K Mags
Are these worth the extra money 50.00-65.00 each
AR15barrels
09-19-07, 14:05
Are these worth the extra money 50.00-65.00 each
If you are asking if they are 3x-4x better than a Pmag, then NO.
They are nice mags though.
IMHO they are not worth the money.
Heavy and awkward - dent easy etc.
A very smooth follower though.
You should get them.
Can he use your money?
PMAGS, or upgraded USGIs are just fine. Either way, don't marry your mags. If they don't work, ditch 'em.:cool:
BushmasterFanBoy
09-19-07, 15:32
Get them.
I have 7 of them and they are the best magazines money can buy. Yes they are a little expensive at $60 a pop, but they are honestly the best in my opinion. They have a very nice finish which wears easy, but the finish is their maritime finish, the same used on the HK Mk. 23. Follower, as mentioned, is very sick, the slickest I have ever felt. In my opinion they are a step above the Pmag, but they do not hold up to being run over a truck as well as the Pmags do, and they are a little more expensive. The only drawback to them are the weight, since they are steel.
Search the usual sites. They are not hard to find for $40 each.
AR15barrels
09-19-07, 16:11
I've got a couple Pmags that I have been beating-up in 3gun matches.
When people ask about them, I will generally toss one over my back (fully loaded) and then pick it up off the ground and hand it over for them to look at.
I would not pull that prank with aluminum or steel mags.
I've got a couple Pmags that I have been beating-up in 3gun matches.
When people ask about them, I will generally toss one over my back (fully loaded) and then pick it up off the ground and hand it over for them to look at.
I would not pull that prank with aluminum or steel mags.
Ditto. The nice thing about fiber reinforced plastic is that you know when it breaks. You can tell when it's cracked. You can't always tell with metal mags that a spot weld has popped off or it a dent is going to stop your follower from going through the whole range of motion. I've put quite a few rounds through my PMAGs and to be honest they work well enough I don't feel the need to spend anymore money on something else.
I've had four HK mags...sold them all after a couple of range sessions. I was thoroughly unimpressed. I've also seen a lot of them being used at the range and in training classes.
From my experience and observations, they are reliable when new, but heavier, less durable and 4-5x the cost of PMags. One HK mag certainly isn't worth four USGI/PMags, IMO YMMV, of course.
With the availability of the C-Products SS mag and the Magpul PMag, there isn't any compelling reason to pay the premium for par performance.
Joseywales
09-19-07, 19:04
Why is everyone having so many mag problems? I have C-products mags with Magpul followers and mag pull base plates. Never had a problem. Try spraying the internals with Moly lube.
BushmasterFanBoy
09-19-07, 19:22
Why is everyone having so many mag problems? I have C-products mags with Magpul followers and mag pull base plates. Never had a problem. Try spraying the internals with Moly lube.
I've never had any problems with my 7 GI mags (Green Followers). It's just added piece of mind knowing all the HK propaganda that is behind your magazine, plus they have really smoooooooooooooth followers.
HK mgas cannot even come close to matching the durability of simple USGI mags that cost $8. I have thrown hundreds of bad ones in the trash.
PMAGs look REAL good so far. I am hesitant to call them "the answer" because I thought the HK mags were the end-all be-all until they all crapped out on me. I don't want to make that mistake again until they're proven. They are light, and have very smooth followers, and are very impact resistant.
Get them.
They have a very nice finish which wears easy, but the finish is their maritime finish, the same used on the HK Mk. 23. .
Who cares about fit and finish and finish wear?
yeesh.
yes i own some there nice mags they work
so do my pmags and my DH and a few of my cps actually run. others havent
save the money.
Larry Vickers
09-19-07, 21:40
I have alot of experience with HK M16 mags and can no longer recommend them due to some issues the current version has - particularly at the price they sell at
I have been using some PMAGS with good results - my recommendation is buy a few (for the price of one HK mag) and try them
Good luck
Larry Vickers
www.vickerstactical.com
Larry,
I hear its alot of spring related issues?
I have alot of experience with HK M16 mags and can no longer recommend them due to some issues the current version has www.vickerstactical.com
Can someone give details about this?
Thanks.
Joe Mamma
Ok then, if the HK mags aren't worth the money, then would one be better off buying the CProducts aluminum mags with the Magpul followers at say $12.50 or the Magpul PMags at say $14.50? Are the PMags better enough for the 2 bucks per mag? As of yet, I don't really have any, so I'm starting from the ground up, and don't want a bunch of junk I just have to replace. If I buy 10 of the CProducts mags, I can get them for $11. Is it worth the $3.50 each to get the PMags?
Edited to add: I just looked at the window vs. non window PMag thread and saw the truck test. I'm pretty sure any aluminum mag would've failed that. Maybe I should just spend the 3 bucks per mag and be done with it. I don't need the window. It's either full, or I'm still pulling the trigger.
AR15barrels
09-20-07, 02:05
Ok then, if the HK mags aren't worth the money, then would one be better off buying the CProducts aluminum mags with the Magpul followers at say $12.50 or the Magpul PMags at say $14.50? Are the PMags better enough for the 2 bucks per mag? As of yet, I don't really have any, so I'm starting from the ground up, and don't want a bunch of junk I just have to replace. If I buy 10 of the CProducts mags, I can get them for $11. Is it worth the $3.50 each to get the PMags?
Get the Pmags.
Brownells and Midway offer them at dealer pricing if you can find them in-stock.
Now we are going to be called the Magpul shills :D
As said before all mags have a lifespan - toss 'em when they have issues.
To me the PMag is worth the small premium.
Even Alum mags get beat up during trg and operations - and I have yet to have a PMAG crap out on me (despite my best efforts). The fact that I ran one over and then even with a cracked spine - it still shot and functioned flawlessly really speaks volumes IMHO to their durability.
The lack of "ranger" plates is an issue I hope will soon be addressed.
LukeMacGillie
09-20-07, 06:58
Larry,
I hear its alot of spring related issues?
Im not Larry, but yes spring issues are what I have seen. After about 6-800 rounds they no longer lock back the bolt when empty. When talking to H&K they said that they will not be offering replacement springs, as mags are an expendable item and if they go bad you should just order more mags.
The spring weakens to the point that the mags don't lock the bolt back very early in their service life. Also, if they are dropped they are prone to damage from being dropped due to their weight, and the feed lips are pretty weak and don't last much longer than the springs.
Keep in mind these mags were not designed for the AR-style rifles as someone who knows a lot more about them pointed out to me.
Can someone give details about this?
Thanks.
Joe Mamma
+1
Both mags have had problems and gone through respins. PMAGS twice in 6 months. Most know what was wrong with the PMAGS, but I would like to know about the HK mags.
I've got 40 of the pmags and they are great. no problems. you can get them from several places for less than 14.00 delivered priority if you want them. 44mag.com comes to mind. I have ordered several from there along with ordering several from Denny at GTS over on the ar15.com website. Why anyone would pay 40 bucks or more for the the same thing is beyond me, but to each his own I guess. RG
by the way. if you have problems with either of the 1st or 2nd gen pmags you can send them back and be traded like for like from pmag. who else would or does do that?
Yeah, I was kind of thinking that the PMags might be the ticket. They won't dent, no welds to pop, they're either broken or right. The sites mentioned don't have them for under $14. 44mag list them at $14.20, and GTS lists them at $14.15.
Yeah, I was kind of thinking that the PMags might be the ticket. They won't dent, no welds to pop, they're either broken or right. The sites mentioned don't have them for under $14. 44mag list them at $14.20, and GTS lists them at $14.15.
Is that too high? A quality pistol mag can not be had for that price.
The Dumb Gun Collector
09-21-07, 11:45
Mr. Vickers,
What are the issues you are seeing with the HK416 mags?
Now we are going to be called the Magpul shills :D
Given the caliber of the people responding in favor of the PMAG's and their respective credentials, I wouldn't worry about being accused of anything.
I've switched to PMAG's as well. Never actually could quite reach my ankles when it came time to pay for HK mags...I guess I'm not quite that limber. GI 30's with the proper springs and followers are absolutely GTG.
Haven't heard much about the CMMG "immortal" mags yet. The braided springs and the metal followers sound great, but nothing solid in terms of real world use.
Yeah, I was kind of thinking that the PMags might be the ticket. They won't dent, no welds to pop, they're either broken or right. The sites mentioned don't have them for under $14. 44mag list them at $14.20, and GTS lists them at $14.15.
They are less than $12/ea at Brownells if you qualify for the discount (C&R license, dealer, gunsmith, etc).
I always had an itch to buy about 7 HK mags... Glad I never did buy them now.
Nice thing about the HK mags is their trade value...at least for a little while yet. I swapped a couple HK mags and an inexpensive chest rig for an Aimpoint M2.
We got issued the HK mags. Then...
The word came out that the HK mags are are not to be used because they are damaging the AR lowers. Steel against Al?
I don't know. I have yet to see any of this in writing. I still use USGI mags and the HK mags because they are free. None have failed yet.
However, I like the PMAG!
Yes, DRich, I discovered them in the book today as I had not seen them there before. And, I do qualify. :D I will be ordering some posthaste. :cool:
I bought two P-Mags to try from Brownells.
They are about $13.00 here.
I am not growing all warm and fuzzy towards the P-Mags, they rattle when fully loaded and I don't see where the plastic is any great improvement over Orlites.
They will not drop free when installed in a rifle with a Norgon ambidextrious magazine catch either, they pop about three quarters out and stop.
Even worse if you use the left side mag release, they pop about a quarter out and stop.
These are 07-07 date code magazines, not he older "Bad" magazines either.
The magazines fed and locked open just fine but I only fired 90 rounds through each magazine so this first run wasn't exactly an endurance test.
The dust cover is cute but I can see this being easily lost and then the hunt for a replacement is required.
Right now I am still favoring my Brownell aluminum magazines over the P-Mags.
Im not Larry, but yes spring issues are what I have seen. After about 6-800 rounds they no longer lock back the bolt when empty. When talking to H&K they said that they will not be offering replacement springs, as mags are an expendable item and if they go bad you should just order more mags.
At the price, and low round count they consider them expendable?
Germans :o
I believe it was rgrgordo that told me that "HK makes money in spite of themselves" ....... cough......
I own a couple dozen of the H&K mags. never had a problem.
And they can be picked up for as little as $31 bucks. Not sure where people are getting this 4-6 times more than pmag crap. Oh and yes I own a few PMAGS too.
Also, I have a norgon ambi mag release on a couple different lowers. Works flawless for me for all types of mags.
It is a shame how poor H&K's customer service is, which is also nothing new.
Pat_Rogers
10-17-07, 06:15
I too used to support the hk mags. Shortly after we received a new batch we started seeing problems which the factory told us was because "we didn't know how to shoot" and a myriad of other slurs. This was rectified with the "gen 2 mag" and the firing of that individual.
They are reliable when new.
The spring will wear, as with all springs.
No replacement springs will be forthcoming (thanks Luke!)
They dent very easily.
Many of the people issued them are moving on (Based on my observations)
They are heavy- not a big issue for the hobby or occasional shooter, but an issue for others.
I have 20+ PMAG's now. The only problem was with a smoke mag, and that was not a surprise as different material was used from the conventional black mags.
They are not perfect- but nothing is (including glocks)
I have over 100 BCM magazines (from D&H) which run as well or better then any other mil type magazine that we have used.
My experiences with CProducts and Brownells mags are spotty.
Short answer- there are better magazines on the market then those made by hk, and for a lot less money.
John_Wayne777
10-17-07, 06:44
Im not Larry, but yes spring issues are what I have seen. After about 6-800 rounds they no longer lock back the bolt when empty. When talking to H&K they said that they will not be offering replacement springs, as mags are an expendable item and if they go bad you should just order more mags.
Good grief....
That's excessive even for somebody who is used to supplying government contracts....
billybronco
10-17-07, 08:09
Wanna know the cat's meow???
CMMG - SSAT 30 Rd Teflon Mags w/Braided Wire...
New from CMMG. 30rd black teflon magazine with stainless steel anti-tilt follower and braided wire spring. No other magazine offers greater performance under extreme conditions. New stainless steel ant-tilt follower features superb stability, minimal drag and unmatched durability. Nano-ceramic plated braided wire spring protects 400+ hours against salt sea spray. Multi-strand construction eliminates the magazine from ever taking a set. No single strand chrome silicon spring compares!
24.40...
BADASS....Can't beat 'em for the price.
You C&P'd that off their site, dinchya? I'm sure they'll prove to be excellent, but after the HK Experience others have reported, I'll wait and see before I go replace all my existing mags.
Don't spend your money on the HK mags. I got mine for free, and ran some of them for a while. I decided I didn't like the added weight, so then I only ran the two mags on my weapon as HK mags (figured they are most likely to get banged up, steel is more durable than alum...). Then one day at the range I had a few stoppages with them. That was the last time I carried them.
Switched back to C Products mags with Ranger plates which have never given me problems. Now I am also running P Mags that I was given. I'm not sure of the cost difference between P mags, C products, and HK mags, but I would take the Pmags or C products over the HKs anyday.
Larry Vickers
10-25-07, 16:21
At this time the HK mags are not worth the money- they have issues, and until those issues are resolved (if ever) stay away from them
I have been using PMags with good luck so far - time will tell - and good old Colt aluminum mags served me well for a very long time - but only load 28
be safe
Larry Vickers
www.vickerstactical.com
BushmasterFanBoy
10-25-07, 18:51
At this time the HK mags are not worth the money- they have issues, and until those issues are resolved (if ever) stay away from them
I have been using PMags with good luck so far - time will tell - and good old Colt aluminum mags served me well for a very long time - but only load 28
be safe
Larry Vickers
www.vickerstactical.com
What type of issues? I have 7 of these and would like to know what to look for so I can ditch them when needed.
So far mine are alright but I haven't had too many rounds through each one, nor have I abused them yet.
I have both the USGI and HK mags. I see no difference in performance of either mag. With the exception of weight! The HK mags are substantially heavier.
If you are purchasing the HK mags out of pocket then USGI mags are fine; and will perform just as well at a much lower cost.
If you are purchasing the HK mags for the name brand then that is fine too. It is your money!
It has been said before here. "Don't marry your mags." They are a consumable/disposable items. If a mag STB then trash it and move on with your life.
At this time the HK mags are not worth the money- they have issues, and until those issues are resolved (if ever) stay away from them
I have been using PMags with good luck so far - time will tell - and good old Colt aluminum mags served me well for a very long time - but only load 28
Pmags have issues too. But at least we know about them, and they are fixing them.
I keep hearing about HK mag issues, but nobody is telling. Mine work fine.
Pmags have issues too. But at least we know about them, and they are fixing them.
I keep hearing about HK mag issues, but nobody is telling. Mine work fine.
What issues are the Pmags having?
What issues are the Pmags having?
Feed problems resulting in two re-spins in the last 6 months. The first was for mags date-stamped 03/07 and earlier, the second for 06/07 and earlier. They had a free replacement program.
More on their web page, but here is a short blurb:
It has come to the attention of Magpul Industries Corp that a number of users have experienced feeding problems with their PMAGs™ due to unusually tight magazine bodies. The primary symptom is sluggish follower response, or snagging when loaded with more than 20 rounds. These issues are a result of dimensional changes occurring after the PMAG™ left the Magpul factory, and only affect the PMAG™ body. Other PMAG™ components such as the follower, lock plate, floor plate, and impact cover are unaffected.
The Dumb Gun Collector
10-25-07, 22:47
What are the issues with the 416 mags?
:confused:
Feed problems resulting in two re-spins in the last 6 months. The first was for mags date-stamped 03/07 and earlier, the second for 06/07 and earlier. They had a free replacement program.
More on their web page, but here is a short blurb:
It has come to the attention of Magpul Industries Corp that a number of users have experienced feeding problems with their PMAGs™ due to unusually tight magazine bodies. The primary symptom is sluggish follower response, or snagging when loaded with more than 20 rounds. These issues are a result of dimensional changes occurring after the PMAG™ left the Magpul factory, and only affect the PMAG™ body. Other PMAG™ components such as the follower, lock plate, floor plate, and impact cover are unaffected.
Those issues have been resolved so its really a non-isue.
AR15barrels
10-26-07, 02:34
What are the issues with the 416 mags?
:confused:
I think it's just that they wear out and won't take the abuse of a Pmag.
Robb Jensen
10-26-07, 04:55
What are the issues with the 416 mags?
:confused:
I have 7 I used for competition. I said used because I've quit using them.
4 of the 7 won't lock the bolt back now. And 1 just caused the first double feed at the Blackwater side rifle match on Sunday (friend was shooting my rifle). So all 7 are for range-only use now. I used PMAGs Sunday with my 10" LMT which have run 100% thus far in 3K rounds.
Those issues have been resolved so its really a non-isue.
That is why I wrote "they are fixing them." Hopefully their will not be a 3rd recall.
Nathan_Bell
10-26-07, 12:15
That is why I wrote "they are fixing them." Hopefully their will not be a 3rd recall.
Hmm
Magpul has some problems with a new product, that they developed on their own dime, and are acting in a admirable manner to make sure that anyone who has a problem with the problem can get the issue fixed.
H&K has a problem with a product that a gotv't originally paid for them to develope, and will not even sell you the parts to fix it on your own dime.
I know who will be gettting my $ for mags and more.
Hmm
Magpul has some problems with a new product, that they developed on their own dime, and are acting in a admirable manner to make sure that anyone who has a problem with the problem can get the issue fixed.
H&K has a problem with a product that a gotv't originally paid for them to develope, and will not even sell you the parts to fix it on your own dime.
I know who will be gettting my $ for mags and more.
Heck, I cannot even get folks to tell me what the HK Mag problems are! They must have sworn everyone to secrecy.
I would say MAGPULs behavior is EXEMPLAR. I hope to make PMAGS my standard mag, I really like them, especially the price.
AR15barrels
10-26-07, 12:41
Heck, I cannot even get folks to tell me what the HK Mag problems are!
I think the main problem is HK's price and customer service attitude.
I wont use them any longer....
at a recent match i performed an emergency reload and bent the lips to the point of no return......
Pmags have issues too. But at least we know about them, and they are fixing them.
I keep hearing about HK mag issues, but nobody is telling. Mine work fine.
Renegade from the way you worded it it looked like they had outstanding issues and are working on fixing them. Which is why I asked because I knew of no existing issues as all of the past ones had been addressed.
Renegade from the way you worded it it looked like they had outstanding issues and are working on fixing them. Which is why I asked because I knew of no existing issues as all of the past ones had been addressed.
Yes, I should have made it more past tense. Sometimes in an effort to be brief, i do not convey the full message or it comes out harsh - not intended.
The 07/07 mags are working fine for me in multiple guns, F/A, S/A, whatever. Getting near time to start "stocking up". Of course, if something is found, it is nice to know MAGPUL will probably fix it at no cost based on previous history.
Mark Hueser
10-27-07, 21:42
I've use HK, PMAGS, USGI, CMMG, CProducts, and others, the best thing that I thinks that you can do is to test your mags and see what works for you. Some people can afford to spend what ever they want on their gear and some can't. For those that spend unlimited amount of money on their gear, see if someone will let you use some of their mags and find out what works best for you.
All mags will wear out over time and are disposable in the long term. Don't get attached to your mags, when they start to give you problems get some new ones.
Mark
Anyone want to buy 3 H&K mag's? :D
Like I have said in the past Hk products are over priced and the extra cost really isnt worth it. With one Hk mag costing around 60 bucks you could buy three new G.I. mags and ad Magpul self leveling followers for the same price. You may even save a few bucks in the process.
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