Roll your own AK

[Gutshot John]

Search feature had some general information but I had more specific questions.

I've been looking for a Khyber Pass AK for a while, not because I shoot them regularly but just because I want one. The prices involved however make this problematic in the short-term.I'm not looking for a hardcore shooter, SHTF rifle or anything similar though if I end up with an excellent rifle, all the better. I'm not looking to become a builder of AKs or even sell the build at the end of it. This will only be my rifle.

On that note I've seen on several AK parts sights receiver flats offered at a reasonable price and I have a buddy who has the appropriate jig and welding equipment. I would buy several flats to practice on and then take the best outcome to build on using a parts kit and necessary compliance parts.

A good bit of my interest in doing this is just to see if I can. If it doesn't work, no harm, no foul and hopefully I learned a bit about AKs.

1. How difficult/problematic is this to do with the right jig/equipment?

2. Have you or would you actually go this route assuming you had the above?

3. What are the potential complications that would lead to an epic fail? What are the common problem areas to focus on?

4. Since receiver flats have no markings and I am not a professional gunsmith, What are the legality issues especially if I need to take it to a gunsmith for work? How would I go about registering the weapon properly if it's only for personal use? I'm not interested in breaking the law even inadvertently, how do I stay on the right side if I do this.

I'm interesting in hearing from people who have gone this route, I can pretty well imagine the consequences of welding failures and out-of-spec and other kBs so I don't need to be told "I wouldn't do that" unless you have first-hand experience as to why.

[TOrrock]

Those receiver flats aren't properly heat treated and I honestly have an extremely low opinion of them.

With the NDS receivers being as affordable as they are, I don't see any advantage to going with a flat.

There's a lot of massaging of parts that goes into building an AK. It's not like throwing together an AR.

I would send a PM to member Sidecarnutz (https://www.m4carbine.net/member.php?u=41323), he's one of the most accomplished home builders I know. Interestingly, he's demilling all of the rifles he built onto flats and rebuilding them on NDS receivers......

Hope that helps.

[Torsion]

I strongly agree with the use of NDS receivers, they even have the Khyber Pass variant already made up. With all the cut outs and notches for the folder and latch. Sidecarnutz is a great guy. I've been to his work shop a couple times, he helped me park. my Polish build. I don't know, folding your own just seems like a lot of work. Don't get me wrong, if you can do it and it comes out good, than thats a accomplishment you can be proud of. Most of the time it dosen't workout that way. With the NDS there's no question of things being in spec. With a few simple hand tools, homemade rivet smasher, bucking blocks, hammer, punches, etc. you can make a very nice AK. The only problem may be finding a decent kit that has the original barrel intact. Good luck.

[Gutshot John]

Thanks for the input, good advice all around.

I knew about NDS but given they're out of stock I wanted to explore my options. That said the price of one completed NDS Khyber pass receiver is equivalent to 3 receiver flats which is probably what it would take to get it done properly accounting for mistakes etc.

[The Cat]

1. How difficult/problematic is this to do with the right jig/equipment?

The difficulty goes way down but you still need considerable knowledge and metalworking experience if you're wanting a safe and reliable gun when you're finished. Templar mentioned heat treating - that's a BIGGIE.

2. Have you or would you actually go this route assuming you had the above?

No. No way. Personally, I'm with Templar - with NDS receivers priced as they are, there's really no reason to fold your own.

3. What are the potential complications that would lead to an epic fail? What are the common problem areas to focus on?

The bending of the receiver, installation of the rails, heat-treating the right areas, drilling correctly-located holes for trunnion installation... almost everything I can think of about the process is critical in some way.

4. Since receiver flats have no markings and I am not a professional gunsmith, What are the legality issues especially if I need to take it to a gunsmith for work? How would I go about registering the weapon properly if it's only for personal use? I'm not interested in breaking the law even inadvertently, how do I stay on the right side if I do this.

I'm not sure about legalities, but it'd probably be hard to find a gunsmith that would want to work on such a gun.

If you look at a number of aspects, there's really no reason to fold your own nowadays. From a cash standpoint, you'll need the jigs, fixtures, and tools. You'll need a press. You'll need a quality parts kit with its original barrel - and they are ridiculously expensive nowadays. My advice: Wait for a NDS receiver, or save up and get a good gun from a reputable builder.

[Toyoland66]

Bending a flat into shape is the easy part. There is quite a bit more work involved than just bending the flat however. Sport welding the rails on isn't too hard but locating them takes some time. The top rails must be ground to the proper width and shape. The hammer and trigger pin holes must be reamed.

The big downside for me is the heat treating, doing it at home is less than scientific, and you only get spot treatment at the trigger and hammer pins. Understood that those are the big stress receiving items of the receiver, heat treated sheetmetal is stronger when it comes to bending, denting, and friction than non heat treated.

After starting two builds on flats I decided to scrap them and buy NDS receivers. For the money spent vs. the time involved building with a flat I don't see any point to building on flats unless it is a hobby and you enjoy doing it. The only debatable benefit is that a flat does not need to be transferred.

My good friend has all of the ak builder rivet jigs and between my group of friends we have built enough rifles to make the tooling economical, the jigs are fairly expensive.

Personally, to do a khyber pass build, considering the availability and price of good parts kits, and that the NDS receivers are often sold out, I would just go ahead and buy a SLR-107F and put some wood furniture on it.

http://www.arsenalinc.com/slr107fm.htm

[BR870]

1. How difficult/problematic is this to do with the right jig/equipment?

The difficulty goes way down but you still need considerable knowledge and metalworking experience if you're wanting a safe and reliable gun when you're finished. Templar mentioned heat treating - that's a BIGGIE.

2. Have you or would you actually go this route assuming you had the above?

No. No way. Personally, I'm with Templar - with NDS receivers priced as they are, there's really no reason to fold your own.

3. What are the potential complications that would lead to an epic fail? What are the common problem areas to focus on?

The bending of the receiver, installation of the rails, heat-treating the right areas, drilling correctly-located holes for trunnion installation... almost everything I can think of about the process is critical in some way.

4. Since receiver flats have no markings and I am not a professional gunsmith, What are the legality issues especially if I need to take it to a gunsmith for work? How would I go about registering the weapon properly if it's only for personal use? I'm not interested in breaking the law even inadvertently, how do I stay on the right side if I do this.

I'm not sure about legalities, but it'd probably be hard to find a gunsmith that would want to work on such a gun.

If you look at a number of aspects, there's really no reason to fold your own nowadays. From a cash standpoint, you'll need the jigs, fixtures, and tools. You'll need a press. You'll need a quality parts kit with its original barrel - and they are ridiculously expensive nowadays. My advice: Wait for a NDS receiver, or save up and get a good gun from a reputable builder.

Well you are forgetting the one major reason alot of people fold their own flats... No 4473

[The Cat]

Well you are forgetting the one major reason alot of people fold their own flats... No 4473

Nope - I didn't forget it.

Legally-registered quality firearm > the chance of having an AK bolt carrier as an ocular implant.

[TOrrock]

Well you are forgetting the one major reason alot of people fold their own flats... No 4473


Careful.......wait, are those Black Helicopters I'm hearing....?

[BR870]

Nope - I didn't forget it.

Legally-registered quality firearm > the chance of having an AK bolt carrier as an ocular implant.

Oh I agree. I no longer have any kit built AKs, and only have one AK left, and its factory built. That said, I still have several friends who enjoy building AKs, and I can tell you that a big point to them is the reddened part above. Its mostly a philosophical objection...