Closing of threads recently

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

I had a quick question, and hopefully I don't get banned for this as I mean no disrespect by it, so here goes...

In the GD rules section, we see the following:


Threads or posts that bash law enforcement and/or the military...or that even get close to bashing...WILL NOT BE TOLERATED on M4Carbine.net.


So why are threads being closed when they even remotely mention LE topics? Are we that sensitive now? A member was asking for help and advice on becoming a police officer, but because his post said LE in it, it had to be closed?

Why then are we not adhering to the same rules for other respected professions, such as teachers, doctors, military, and politicians? Do they not deserve the same treatment?

I can understand keeping controversial topics at bay in the other parts of M4C, but why not allow a respectful exchange of ideas in the GD? If someone (like 500grains) begins to act like a troll or starts getting out of hand, then by all means swing the ban hammer. I've been banned for acting like an ass before, I deserved it, and I didn't do it again.

Maybe Im wrong, and if I am please call me out, but this seems a little too harsh to be closing all LE related threads no matter what the subject matter.

Also, can someone point me in the direction of the rule that says no LE discussion at all?


Thanks guys,
Grant

[SWATcop556]

Due to the actions of a very small portion of our membership site staff implemented a policy of no LE related topics of any kind until further notice.

People who would more than likely have a normal civil conversation in person resort to name calling and worse over the Internet. Mods had a full time gig of just keeping those threads in line so the new policy was put in place and it was posted in GD for several weeks.

As of right now nothing has changed and the policy stands. If we enforce it for anti LE threads then unfortunately it has to be enforced equally across the board.

I regret that the actions of a few impact the whole forum but right now that is the standing order until something changes.

Thank you for understanding.

[LowSpeed_HighDrag]

Due to the actions of a very small portion of our membership site staff implemented a policy of no LE related topics of any kind until further notice.

People who would more than likely have a normal civil conversation in person resort to name calling and worse over the Internet. Mods had a full time gig of just keeping those threads in line so the new policy was put in place and it was posted in GD for several weeks.

As of right now nothing has changed and the policy stands. If we enforce it for anti LE threads then unfortunately it has to be enforced equally across the board.

I regret that the actions of a few impact the whole forum but right now that is the standing order until something changes.

Thank you for understanding.
Roger that. It's not my forum, I dont pay to stay so I certainly wont complain about the laws.

[Palmguy]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=69588

[SteyrAUG]

I'm glad this comes up from time to time because honestly I forget.

In the past couple months there have probably been about six times where I was about to post something related to LE (usually positive) or peripherally related to LE (enough that a simple detour is enough to hijack) and as I was about to hit "submit" and THANKFULLY I remembered.

Personally I think it's a shame we can't discuss certain topic and simply moderate the morons rather than the subject. But it ain't my forum so it ain't my rules.

[Skyyr]

Any chance of getting a non-LE forum (where those who have LE-forum memberships cannot gain access) and then letting people post to their hearts' contents in there? Just going for the equality factor here...

[John_Wayne777]

Chance = 0%.

The reason behind the LE thread rule is, as SWAT alluded to, because damn near every one descended into LE bashing of some sort or another because some folks can't avoid behaving badly on the topic. We chose to forbid the threads rather than lock people's accounts. It has worked fairly well so far, reducing the number of slap fights in the General Discussion area.

[D. Christopher]

It's a shame that there isn't some way to have a separate forum with rules similar to the General Discussion forum regarding either post count or how long you've been a member to allow some discussions on some topics that directly affect gun owners. I'm thinking of the closed threads regarding the Project Gun Runner fiasco, and I'm only interested in the discussions regarding elected officials and their misconduct that will result in tightening controls and taking away some of our rights as gun owners. But these threads fall under the taboo topic heading, and get shut down. There are some great minds here and many people with a great deal of experience whose opinions could be very important in the coming months, but alas this is no longer the place for those discussions. It's not my forum and I don't want to make the rules, but it's still a shame that it all comes down to the lowest common denominator. Too bad the LCD's get to control the discussion, instead of a zero-tolerance policy and the swift application of the PermaBan.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Why then are we not adhering to the same rules for other respected professions, such as teachers, doctors, military, and politicians? Do they not deserve the same treatment?


That's an interesting point. I'd think that (outside of politicians) most threads that got disrespectful in general would get locked. Why other forums have conversations about LE's and ours seem to cross a line is an interesting question too. More Libertarians here than your normal right-leaning crowds, maybe?

Plenty of other places to bitch or praise LEOs, so I don't miss it. Since most crime stories do have a police angle, it is unfortunate though.

Be nice if we had a zero response option on threads so that the OP could post a topic or link to a story and there were no options for responses. That way if there are interesting stories that don't get picked up in the general press, they could get passed around with out the possibility of things getting out of hand.

[JSantoro]

Just going for the equality factor here...

I'm not sure what you think it is that goes on in the LE subforum, but I can tell you that every 3rd thread isn't an idiotic, half-baked brawl in which the LE folk baselessly bash away at rank-and-file civilians while ensconced in a warm womb of civilian non-interference.

The idea of "equality," in this idiom, just doesn't hold water, because what you're asking for isn't in any way equal.

The mods and staff are far, far more interested in keeping their work load to a certain, reasonable level, and fixed on the ACTUAL center of gravity of the forum as a whole, than in some warped view of "equal time."

In case anybody forgot, that center of gravity would be the technical subforums.

[Iraqgunz]

I occasionally want to post some LE related stuff as well. But, I saw first hand how ugly some of those LE threads turned due to the actions and inability of others to play nicely.

The General Discussion area is really just an extra bone. The real reason for this site is to discuss the AR platform and all the other weapons systems and disciplines.

It's hard enough for us to moderate thread areas that shouldn't need to be moderated. But when people want to start the 500th lube thread or ask which sling is best for their gat or even better why Colt is a POS and Bushmasters are Tier 1 well I think you get the picture.

Personally I think I would like to see the GD area get rid of politics, religion and other stuff all together.

[John_Wayne777]

Too bad the LCD's get to control the discussion, instead of a zero-tolerance policy and the swift application of the PermaBan.

That always sounds good in theory, but in reality it's much more difficult to accomplish that in an even handed manner. Moderator A is involved in a discussion where Member B has a differing opinion. Member B eventually behaves like a dweeb. Moderator A uses the banhammer, member B and others who agreed with member B whine that he was banned because of his expressed opinion rather than his bad behavior.

We strive to use bans as a last resort generally pulled out only after it's become abundantly clear that someone needs to be voted off the island, but even that generates epic amounts of whining.

[HeavyDuty]

Personally I think I would like to see the GD area get rid of politics, religion and other stuff all together.

Yup. Speaking as a long time moderator at a very large (non-shooting) forum, we found dumping politics and religion discussion in OT to be absolutely critical.

[warpigM-4]

I hate it has come to this just because of a few bad apples.
I have friends in LE and i can't stand the LE bashing.

when a lot of the posters have no ideal what a day in the shoes of LE is like, But bash and name call behind their keyboards.

I have walked away from my computer countless times ,when seeing LE threads go south ,Just because of the things I want to say to defend the LE .

It is a hard enough job with out reading a thread bashing you ,when you come to your Favorite Forum to read the Masses amounts of Knowledge On the AR Platform Here .
it is a tough call but i think the Mods are Dead on with this. enough is enough

[Artos]

I have really wanted to calmly discuss the ATF Fast & Furious fiasco here on M4, as I value some of the member's input...plus it is tied to the narco / border war I am so involved with.

I just find it sad knowing it will go down the toilet before the end of the first page instead of sticking to the main topic and staying civil.

I understand all too well why non le threads get tiresome for the mods...just kinda frustrating as we have some valuable member's opinions that will never get shared.

[J-Dub]

I'm guilty of starting one, shouldve checked the rules first.

Sorry guys, no hate from me, rules are rules.

[militarymoron]

there are just some topics that always go south, no matter who's involved. folks that will calmly discuss barrel twist rates and exterior ballistics together can end up calling each other idiots over politics, religion, etc.

these are topics that divide even the most intelligent people, families and friends. i've seen it happen, as emotions about these subjects run deep into ones' belief systems. they end up being more divisive than unifying.

i don't speak for anyone else on M4C, but as a member first, and moderator second, i'd rather that we keep M4C focused on the topics that brought us here together in the first place, and build on that common ground. if it means giving up a few taboo topics that are almost always divisive to this community, i can live with that.

[DrMark]

I'm glad this comes up from time to time because honestly I forget.
No doubt.

I'm glad this thread was started, and hasn't been locked, because I didn't know about the policy change...

[Littlelebowski]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=69588

Need that stickied, mods.

[militarymoron]

it's now stuck.

[d90king]

Personally I think I would like to see the GD area get rid of politics, religion and other stuff all together.

I would love to see this! There are plenty of places to discuss Ron Paul talking points. I just don't think a technical forum is one of them...

I enjoy political discussion however when I come to m4c I come to learn and discuss the m4 and various other weapon systems, not to discuss the "newsreel topic of the day"...

[rob_s]

Several car forums I've been a member of have similar rules. Some others offer up a dedicated section just for that, separate from GD.

The thing is that containing it rarely works, depending on the goal behind eliminating/containing it.

[SHIVAN]

We had to discuss this for months, for what we feel is an imperfect solution.

The perfect solution would be everyone acting like they would if we were all sitting at a narrow table across from one another for a friendly chat.

Unfortunately, that never materialized no matter what else we tried.

We valued a few members' accounts here, even when they seemed not to, and so we came up with this "compromise".

So far, it's working.