View Full Version : BCM 14.5's are back in soooooooo?......
Guys, I ordered a new BCM 16" chrome line, NON Hammer Forged. Well, I love it but Bravo Now has the 14.5's in and I want it. My thought was just get the 14.5 and sell the 16 on gunbroker as it has never been fired.
At $399 would I be able to sell my 16 to pay for the new 14.5 and break slick? No interested in a profit but I dont want to loose any money either. The 16 inch is short, I just wanted the 14.5 and I cant get it out of my head.
Thoughts?
Thanks for the input as well.
I moved this from another thread. I got no repsonse, I want to move fast on this.
Toyoland66
03-14-11, 19:28
I see posts from people regretting their 14.5's with perm attached muzzle devices because it makes any future mods to gas blocks or handrails a serious pain.
I don't recall seeing the same posts from people with 16's that wish they had gotten a 14.5.
But, its your decision.
Buy the 14.5 and keep the 16. Two is always better than one.
Once you start it never ends.... BCM fuels BRD!!!
Stay way from uppers that have to have something permed into place.
Stay way from uppers that have to have something permed into place.
I would like to agree, but I dislike a carbine gas system in anything greater than 14.5" so my 6920 has a Colt M4 barrel and a permed Blackout. It also has a a DD LITE 12.0 FSP so I'm set for the life of that barrel.
I got an e-mail about the 14.5 LW's being back in stock, but I was on vacation out of the country, buy the time I saw it, which was all of 9 hours later, they were already sold out.
Only reason I am looking for a 14.5" and not the 16" is because I have to perm a brake onto it anyway living in a commi state, so might as well have it as short as possible. Otherwise, I would always go for the 16" since as said before, I could change anything I want on it pretty easily.
As long as you are content with the components a permed brake may not be so bad. If you are a geardo and have to have every new item thar comes to market stay I would suggest staying away. I know I've been toying with switching from my FSC556 to a BC and would hate being stuck or having to destroy a brake to remove it. Since you need to perm it might as well, go for it.
I generally don't have a problem with permanent muzzle devices. My current favorite rifle has a permed muzzle device. HOWEVER, I would not recommend a rifle with a welded flash hider if it was going to be that person's only rifle (or even their second rifle). I would also not recommend one if the person in question was relatively new to ARs. Since reconfiguring the rifle is a pain in the ass, you should try to be ABSOLUTELY sure of what you want. That means exposure to numerous configurations and knowing what works for you. Keep the 16 inch gun. Then get a SBR (if your state allows). Then you can start thinking about a permed 14.5.
alpha.kilo
03-14-11, 20:50
If you are looking for a 14.5 middy, Noveske is getting ready to change over all of their Light Carbine 14.5's to a mid length gas system. Matter of fact they have been working on the website this afternoon. The photos the 14.5 models are down, and the descriptions have already been changed to reflect the mid gas. I suspect we could see 14.5 middy carbines for sale in the chrome lined barrels soon.
AK.
I'll go against the crowd here, and say that a 14.5 with perm FH is my ideal configuration (aside from the SBR I can't have). I don't need a FF Rail, and if I would ever want one I can just mow the FSB and add a Centurian Arms C4.
You are limiting yourself with a pinned 14.5, and you already seem to be somewhat undecisive, so think about any possible configuration that you may want in the future.
I see posts from people regretting their 14.5's with perm attached muzzle devices because it makes any future mods to gas blocks or handrails a serious pain.
I don't recall seeing the same posts from people with 16's that wish they had gotten a 14.5.
But, its your decision.
So if a muzzle break is perm. attached, I can't change the handguard? Or does this only apply to the front sight/gas block combo configuration?
I've been looking to purchase a 14.5 with Battlecomp 1.5 and a VTAC TRX Handguard. I should be able to change the handguard in the future if I wanted, right? If not, I have to re-think purchase rational all over again.
The flash hider is obviously fixed, which stops the removal of the FSP/gas block. This then stops the removal of the barrel nut. You can then only use a rail that utilizes whatever barrel nut (GI or aftermarket) is on the gun.
I see posts from people regretting their 14.5's with perm attached muzzle devices because it makes any future mods to gas blocks or handrails a serious pain.
The few cases where people can't plan for what they are going to do with their weapon are few and far between. There is absolutely NOT a rash of pinned 14.5 owners running around wailing and gnashing their teeth. Its just not happening.
So if a muzzle break is perm. attached, I can't change the handguard? Or does this only apply to the front sight/gas block combo configuration?
I've been looking to purchase a 14.5 with Battlecomp 1.5 and a VTAC TRX Handguard. I should be able to change the handguard in the future if I wanted, right? If not, I have to re-think purchase rational all over again.
You absolutely can change your handguard, you are just more limited in what you can change it to.
The simple answer is that if you don't know what you want, don't buy it now. Wait until you figure out what you are doing, then buy it once, saving yourself time, money, and aggravation.
In a worst case scenario you would tell the smith to swap out the muzzle device when he was changing your rail at the same time.
I see no advantage to a 14.5" pinned over a 16" and plenty of disadvantage. Couple with being a first/only AR and I think it makes even less sense.
The simple answer is that if you don't know what you want, don't buy it now. Wait until you figure out what you are doing, then buy it once, saving yourself time, money, and aggravation.
There is a good point in there, wrapped in advice I don't agree with. That is that if you don't know what you want, I'd buy the platform with the most flexibility now, and get out and actually shoot the thing so that you can discover what you do want based on actual use. Focus on a quality barrel and BCG, and a basic configuration for the gun, and spend that handguard/flash hider/fancypants money on mags, ammo, and training.
Dos Cylindros
03-14-11, 22:56
I see no advantage to a 14.5" pinned over a 16" and plenty of disadvantage. Couple with being a first/only AR and I think it makes even less sense.
There is a good point in there, wrapped in advice I don't agree with. That is that if you don't know what you want, I'd buy the platform with the most flexibility now, and get out and actually shoot the thing so that you can discover what you do want based on actual use. Focus on a quality barrel and BCG, and a basic configuration for the gun, and spend that handguard/flash hider/fancypants money on mags, ammo, and training.
Quite a bit of good advice in this post. I was experienced with duty issued AR's prior to taking on building up one of my own, and I still spent plenty of money on things trying them out. A 16" with standard handguards a good red dot optic and BUIS would be the best place to start. It will be a more than capable carbine which you can shoot the crap out of and then get something a little more fancy.
My preferred gun is a 14.5 with a pinned FH.
Of course I put a LOT of thought into it before hand and configured it exactly the way I wanted it. I would not suggest doing it as an first gun. The reason we see people with 20 things hanging off their rails is that most people don't shoot their weapons enough to figure out what works and what doesn't.
As you get more trigger time you can start to figure out what fits you best. Then you can make those types of decisions with confidence.
Stay way from uppers that have to have something permed into place.
Right. People fail to realize that they cannot change/add a rail (if it is a one piece FF), gas block/FSB, and FS/MB.
What I love is when they pin a 14.5 and then 6 months later realize that they want a suppressor and are screwed (as the FS they chose won't work with the suppressor they want). :haha:
I think the real errors come from noobs buying pinned 14.5. They don't know what they don't know (meaning they haven't figured out how they like their gun configured yet). They see all the HSLD builds on here by members that have extensive background in AR's and follow their lead. What they fail to realize is that person KNOWS what they don't know and has built a gun to fit THEIR NEEDS.
C4
What they fail to realize is that person KNOWS what they don't know and has built a gun to fit THEIR NEEDS.
C4
This. The ONLY reason I bought a 14.5" LW barrel is because it is going to be a dedicated suppressor host and trunk gun. Putting a 1.1 lb suppressor on the end of a 34" rifle adds about an additional 3 pounds of totational torque if the datum is the back of the butt stock. A 16" is 3.3 pounds all other things being equal. After a long day of shooting, ounces equal pounds and having a slightly shorter barrel makes sense, but all other applications, not really.
Kind of along the same lines, I was reading yesterday about how soft the 14.5" middies shoot and how great they are and thought to myself "great, now that I just finished up my second 16" middy last week I read this sh*t".......
So I cruised over the the BCM site to see that they're out of stock on 14.5" mid length uppers like I would want (thank goodness) and then started thinking that maybe I should send one of mine off to ADCO and have them chop it down and pin a BattleComp 1.5 on the end.......
But I think I'll just stick with my long, awkward, hard shooting 16" barrels for now......must quit reading equipment reviews on this site :p!
I understand that I'm part of the machine that pushes these things on people, but if your 16" mid-length is doing what it's supposed to for you I wouldn't worry about it. The improvement in the 14.5" mid-length is incremental at best IMHO.
I understand that I'm part of the machine that pushes these things on people, but if your 16" mid-length is doing what it's supposed to for you I wouldn't worry about it. The improvement in the 14.5" mid-length is incremental at best IMHO.
I think this sums it up nicely.
You don't have to have the newest and greatest just because someone tells you it is the newest and greatest. As I said I prefer 14.5 inch guns. But I have two 16 inch Guns as well they are no less effective.
I own a 14.5 pinned with the BC1.5; and although I do not feel disadvantaged as far as future customization goes, I do wish I would have considered the fouling that takes place on the under side of the FH that will not be able to be removed.
If it was my only gun, I would have def. gone with a 16" barrel.
I think this sums it up nicely.
You don't have to have the newest and greatest just because someone tells you it is the newest and greatest. As I said I prefer 14.5 inch guns. But I have two 16 inch Guns as well they are no less effective.
We all don't need the latest and greatest can opener.
If you have a specific purpose for the 14.5", and don't have anything in its place right now, keep what you have. I prefer 16" guns, but a 14.5" is a great suppressor host.
Yeah went with a 14.5" carbine/pinned flash suppressor and of course that lead to having to put on a quad rail before hand. This was and is my first AR and overall I'm pretty happy with it. Just added some expense up front.
What I see in the future if I get the urge is to just buy another upper if I see the need or want. I've got sons that will need an AR down the road so another upper is definitely in the future. Would I go with a 14.5" upper again with pinned flash suppressor? No! I would definitely get an SBR and not worry about the pin/welding.
It's not like pinned muzzle devices can't be removed (by a competent gunsmith of course)...
It's not like pinned muzzle devices can't be removed (by a competent gunsmith of course)...
Ummm, duh? :p
Very little short of death or vaporization is un-doable. The issue is the ease, and expense, involved in un-doing them. Few people are going to have the skills, tools, and nerve to remove a permanently-affixed muzzle device at home. Removing one that is simply threaded on, even when secured with loctite or other thread-locker is a relatively easy process provided the user clamps the barrel and not the upper. There was a thread on another forum not too long ago about damage to an upper that was CLEARLY caused by a person who had no idea about the AR system only to be sent to another person who in turn got blamed for the damage.
Changing parts at home is easy, a good skill to acquire, and is cheaper and less time consuming. In the amount of time, and for much less cash outlaid, that it would take for your upper to ARRIVE at the 'smith to remove the device you could have the correct tool(s) in hand and be done with the work. And you'd know how to do the work. And how to un-do it when you decide you don't like it.
I have a T&E 1.45" BCM upper with a PWS muzzle device. I received it from BCM just as the Battlecomp was coming online and suggested to Paul that he look into using them if for no other reason he'd be hearing the wagonwheels requesting them as they were getting a lot of chatter. If this was my personal gun I might even look into changing it out, but at $100 sacrificed for the PWS, another $150 for the BC (only to subsequently also be trashed later when the next great thing hits the internet) plus the cost of the work to un-pin and re-pin, plus the downtime of sending off the upper/barrel... I'd just stick with what I've got. 16" upper? Remove PWS in 5 minutes, install BC in 5 minutes, net cost $0. Sell PWS on internet to offset BC price, net cost maybe $100 tops?
and then there's the issue of sacrificing a part you're happy with just to change out another. If you want to go from a Daniel Defense FF rail to try a Larue, or you want to go from MOE handguards to a VTAC, you may have to destroy and replace that $150 Battlecomp just to change the handguard.
ETA:
These arguments are really stupid as I frankly don't care what someone does with their own money. But steering newbs towards the same bad choices someone else made goes against what this site should be about. As long as people understand that:
a) without any practical experience you have no idea what you want or need
and
b) the cost in dollars to change the part(s) can be as much as 3-4x as high
and
c) you may have to sacrifice and replace a part you're happy with just to change out a different part
then by all means, it's your dollars and your donuts, so pay your money and take your chances. But do it from an informed position and don't believe the one-sentence posts that aren't worth the time it takes to hit "submit".
The few cases where people can't plan for what they are going to do with their weapon are few and far between. There is absolutely NOT a rash of pinned 14.5 owners running around wailing and gnashing their teeth. Its just not happening.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v231/sr338/Y29udGVudDovL21lZGlhL2V4dGVybmFsL2ltYWdlcy9tZWRpYS8xODU.jpg
Why oh why did I ever buy this piece of shit?!
I kid. My BCM 14.5 w/ permanent A2X upper is a great carbine - I bought it to mimic my issue M4 and you're a BCM owner already, you know the drill. They are great.
That said, it handles practically identical to my similarly equipped 16" guns. So it's your call OP. Do yo thang.
The simple answer is it's your money and get what will make you happy. I like the 14.5 middy, and for me it's easier to have a pinned muzzle device than to pay $200 for a stamp. In fact the only 2
ARs I currently own are 14.5 LW Middys with pinned FHs, one of them started off as a 16" LW middy before going to ADCO. I prefer them for all the reasons listed in multiple threads on this site and others. I have no regrets over pinned muzzle devices, but I don't regularly change out my gear either.
The caveat, you have to know what you want (not sure the OP does from his post), before you "permanently" attach anything. I figured out what works for me after a couple of seasons of TPC matches and some training classes, as well as what worked for me at work (urban LE). I don't have the budget or desire to try out every new piece of gear that comes out, so once I figured out what worked for me I was GTG.
If you think that every time you read a review you will want to try out the newest and latest, then stick with the 16". If you decide in the future that you want/need the shortest barrel you can have without a stamp then you can send it off to ADCO and still have that 14.5 in the future.
Stay Safe,
Rob
It's not like pinned muzzle devices can't be removed (by a competent gunsmith of course)...
Yes, but will most likely ruin the threads and have to cut and re-thread the barrel. This cost and the fact that you will most likely need to register the lower as an SBR will cause many folks to re-think the idea of removing the pinned FS/MB.
C4
I own a 14.5 pinned with the BC1.5; and although I do not feel disadvantaged as far as future customization goes, I do wish I would have considered the fouling that takes place on the under side of the FH that will not be able to be removed.
If it was my only gun, I would have def. gone with a 16" barrel.
So are you saying that you cannot clean the fouling off the BC?
I went with a BCM 14.5 Middy w/ permed A2 for my first and only AR. That said, I did a lot of research and new exactly what I wanted and what I wanted it for. I couldn't be happy with my choice. I got exactly what I wanted the first time out, even though it limited my ability to make some changes down the road.
Ummm, duh? :p
Very little short of death or vaporization is un-doable. The issue is the ease, and expense, involved in un-doing them. Few people are going to have the skills, tools, and nerve to remove a permanently-affixed muzzle device at home. Removing one that is simply threaded on, even when secured with loctite or other thread-locker is a relatively easy process provided the user clamps the barrel and not the upper. There was a thread on another forum not too long ago about damage to an upper that was CLEARLY caused by a person who had no idea about the AR system only to be sent to another person who in turn got blamed for the damage.
Changing parts at home is easy, a good skill to acquire, and is cheaper and less time consuming. In the amount of time, and for much less cash outlaid, that it would take for your upper to ARRIVE at the 'smith to remove the device you could have the correct tool(s) in hand and be done with the work. And you'd know how to do the work. And how to un-do it when you decide you don't like it.
I have a T&E 1.45" BCM upper with a PWS muzzle device. I received it from BCM just as the Battlecomp was coming online and suggested to Paul that he look into using them if for no other reason he'd be hearing the wagonwheels requesting them as they were getting a lot of chatter. If this was my personal gun I might even look into changing it out, but at $100 sacrificed for the PWS, another $150 for the BC (only to subsequently also be trashed later when the next great thing hits the internet) plus the cost of the work to un-pin and re-pin, plus the downtime of sending off the upper/barrel... I'd just stick with what I've got. 16" upper? Remove PWS in 5 minutes, install BC in 5 minutes, net cost $0. Sell PWS on internet to offset BC price, net cost maybe $100 tops?
and then there's the issue of sacrificing a part you're happy with just to change out another. If you want to go from a Daniel Defense FF rail to try a Larue, or you want to go from MOE handguards to a VTAC, you may have to destroy and replace that $150 Battlecomp just to change the handguard.
ETA:
These arguments are really stupid as I frankly don't care what someone does with their own money. But steering newbs towards the same bad choices someone else made goes against what this site should be about. As long as people understand that:
a) without any practical experience you have no idea what you want or need
and
b) the cost in dollars to change the part(s) can be as much as 3-4x as high
and
c) you may have to sacrifice and replace a part you're happy with just to change out a different part
then by all means, it's your dollars and your donuts, so pay your money and take your chances. But do it from an informed position and don't believe the one-sentence posts that aren't worth the time it takes to hit "submit".
I understand your point of course, but your post almost makes me think that a permanent FH is a good recommendation for a new user. How many new folks out there have put more money into experimenting with the hottest new flash hiders/brakes and FF rail options than they spent on training ammo this year? I will wager that it is an unfortunately large percentage.
FChen17213
03-16-11, 01:02
As with most everything else, most people want to buy the latest and greatest more than they want to actually use the item to its full capacity. It's not just guns either. How many people buy Corvettes and then use them to their capability? I venture to guess that there are guys who buy a Corvette and drive them around until they get bored. Then they buy a Dodge Viper. I seriously doubt these people take their cars to 180 mph or greater speeds. Same thing for guns. First the A2 rifle, then the flattop. The flattop carbine comes next, and then the mid-length. The guy has only shot maybe 300 rounds total maybe. That's a collector, not a serious user. But why bash people for doing what they want to do? If it floats their boat, that's fine with me. It's their money after all.
Kind of along the same lines, I was reading yesterday about how soft the 14.5" middies shoot and how great they are and thought to myself "great, now that I just finished up my second 16" middy last week I read this sh*t".......
So I cruised over the the BCM site to see that they're out of stock on 14.5" mid length uppers like I would want (thank goodness) and then started thinking that maybe I should send one of mine off to ADCO and have them chop it down and pin a BattleComp 1.5 on the end.......
But I think I'll just stick with my long, awkward, hard shooting 16" barrels for now......must quit reading equipment reviews on this site !
Get ahold of Wes Grant at MSTN and get hooked up with a 16" Noveske with an intermediate (11.5") gas system. Best of both worlds. ;) Same barrel/gas ratio as a 14.5" mid-length.
So are you saying that you cannot clean the fouling off the BC?
Not just the BC, any FH/break thats perm'd, check out post #33 and on, HERE (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=60344&page=2)
Robb Jensen shows considerable carbon buildup on the underside of the FH; which would cause me to reconsider permanently fixing it if it was my ONLY gun for any foreseeable future. Like Grant pointed out, do a cost analysis on having a 'smith remove it, re-thread, etc.. its a better option to go the NFA route if you can.
BaileyMoto
03-17-11, 04:41
I find it interesting that so much time and effort is put into debating mid vs carbine and 14.5 Vs 16. In all fairness, i guess those things are what help industries and products evolve.
I've owned and shot both, I can't tell a lick of difference between either when it comes to practicality. The 14.5 carbine that I ultimately decided to keep shoots targets and kills critters just as easily and efficiently as any mid length or rifle length I own or have owned :)
I ultimately chose to keep the 14.5 carbine purely for aesthetic reasons, as I prefer something closer to the "real thing" and I noticed no legitimate differences between the other combinations. Choose what you think looks best and my guess is that it won't perform any differently than what you decided to shove to the side.
I now own a 14.5 with a 1-4 scope for "offhand" all around work and a an 18" for precision and long range varmint work. Couldn't be happier :)
2008hrs 21MAR11, In stock 14.5 middy lightweight. I ordered one just because they're my favorite configuration. thought some might want the update.
ghostman1960
03-21-11, 21:00
The few cases where people can't plan for what they are going to do with their weapon are few and far between. There is absolutely NOT a rash of pinned 14.5 owners running around wailing and gnashing their teeth. Its just not happening.
I absolutely detest mine. :D
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz159/ghostman1961/DSCF2232.jpg
This thread just saved me some money for now. Thanks.
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