View Full Version : Vortex - differences btw PST and HS 1-4?
the Vortex Viper 1-4 PST (Precision Shooting Tactical) with Zero Stop uncapped turrets is getting some good reviews but I see there is also another 1-4 scope in the Viper line called the HS (for Hunter/Shooter) with capped turrets.
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-riflescope-with-tmcq-moa-reticle/reticle
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-hs-1-4x24-riflescope-with-illuminated-tmcq-moa-reticle/reticle
the specs show the PST offering 220 minutes of adjustment (can that be right? :confused: ) while the HS lists only 90 MOA of adjustment.
from the specs and pics they seem to be the same scope with the capped/uncapped turrets and amount of adjustment being the only difference. does anyone know of this is correct?
which would be more appropriate for an AR set up as a Recce or "general use" carbine?
Singlestack Wonder
03-15-11, 09:16
When I asked Vortex on the phone a few weeks ago they stated that the only difference was the turrents. No mention was made of a difference in adjustment capabilities.
When I asked Vortex on the phone a few weeks ago they stated that the only difference was the turrents. No mention was made of a difference in adjustment capabilities.
if they are essentially the same with capped or uncapped turrets, which do you think is more useful on an AR carried on a sling and intended for use at typical 5.56 distances.
I see the role of a 1-4 optic on an AR as bridging the capabilities of both a RDS and a magnified optic. if this already has MIL/MOA reticle, is there really a need for exposed MIL/MOA turrets?
Yep, on the 1-4 it is just the turrets. As I believe it (and looking at the pictures), other scopes in the HS range come without illumination as well - but not the case with the 1-4.
Ya know....I used to be of the impression that the enclosed turrets would be the way to go for me (and always have been up to this scope). And you are exactly right - you can indeed do it all with the reticle. However, I have to say, now I have the exposed target turrets, I am using them! It is usually in longer range shooting situations when at the square range - for instance, if there is a prevailing crosswind, I am now more prone to clicking to compensate rather than holding off. Similarly, now more prone to clicking up for distance. Amazing the difference it makes when you don't have to take a cap off.....:)
I can see the benefit of the enclosed turrets in a hunting/field environment if you are going to be dragging your rifle through the bush, the exposed turrets might inadvertently turn - however, even on the PST they are plenty stiff and it would take a lot for that to happen IMO.
Personal preference wins the day on this one I think.
The interesting option for the HS is to leave the windage turret capped and put the custom BDC turret on the elevation. This would be perfect for most applications and especially for something with robust ejection like a FAL.
Some, if not most FALs will beat hell out of an extended windage turret. With an intermediate range optic, the need for an exposed windage turret is near moot anyway.
Singlestack Wonder
03-15-11, 12:04
if they are essentially the same with capped or uncapped turrets, which do you think is more useful on an AR carried on a sling and intended for use at typical 5.56 distances.
I see the role of a 1-4 optic on an AR as bridging the capabilities of both a RDS and a magnified optic. if this already has MIL/MOA reticle, is there really a need for exposed MIL/MOA turrets?
Depends on the operator's needs...
if they are essentially the same with capped or uncapped turrets, which do you think is more useful on an AR carried on a sling and intended for use at typical 5.56 distances.
I see the role of a 1-4 optic on an AR as bridging the capabilities of both a RDS and a magnified optic. if this already has MIL/MOA reticle, is there really a need for exposed MIL/MOA turrets?
For 300+ Yds or so maximum the capped turrets would be a good choice - especially if humping long distances with a sling - possibly in wet weather. For longer ranges, the turrets, at least on top, make more sense to me (at least on a range gun) - but I have access to steel at much longer ranges (and shoot to 400+ in 3-gun).
If the adjustments on the HS prove to be precise, numbered, and finger adjustable, that would be a huge plus. Maybe Sam will jump in here.
The reticle hash marks on the PST are very fine and significantly less easy to use compared to my $1,500 NF 2.5-10x32 NP-R2. This is where you will see the difference in the more expensive scope. The PST's reticle is usable for ranging and hold overs in good conditions where the NF is usable in any reasonable light or background. The NF's stadia appear to be thicker with more separation (easier to see), even though both scopes have 2 MOA divisions.
That said - with a 200 Meter sight in there is no need to dial in or use the reticle stadia for anything from CQB to ~330 yds - for reasonable sized targets (about 10" minimum for me at 330). Going to the top edge with the 1 MOA dot at 330 gets hits - and it's much faster. I dial in for 400 & 500 meters. For a smallish target at distance, the reticle on the NF wins big if dialing in is not an option.
Shooting the CQB 3-Gun on Sunday we had 90 Yd steel from difficult shooting positions (including weak side shooting thru a port). The huge eye box on the PST is just outstanding! I pre-dialed -1 MOA (negative) to put me closer to true POA/POI, which was handy, but it was not really needed. I think you could do the same on a capped turret.
If given a choice to have a PST with capped turrets I would go for caps. If I was shooting and I needed to make adjustments you can always take them off..........I will find out soon if the adjustable exposed turrets is going to be good or bad...taking some training and will start running it in 3-gun and practical rifle matches...if I find it moving I won't be happy, I will either have to try to tape it in place or will sell it and buy something else.
For 300+ Yds or so maximum the capped turrets would be a good choice - especially if humping long distances with a sling - possibly in wet weather. For longer ranges, the turrets, at least on top, make more sense to me (at least on a range gun) - but I have access to steel at much longer ranges (and shoot to 400+ in 3-gun).
If the adjustments on the HS prove to be precise, numbered, and finger adjustable, that would be a huge plus. Maybe Sam will jump in here.
The reticle hash marks on the PST are very fine and significantly less easy to use compared to my $1,500 NF 2.5-10x32 NP-R2. This is where you will see the difference in the more expensive scope. The PST's reticle is usable for ranging and hold overs in good conditions where the NF is usable in any reasonable light or background. The NF's stadia appear to be thicker with more separation (easier to see), even though both scopes have 2 MOA divisions.
That said - with a 200 Meter sight in there is no need to dial in or use the reticle stadia for anything from CQB to ~330 yds - for reasonable sized targets (about 10" minimum for me at 330). Going to the top edge with the 1 MOA dot at 330 gets hits - and it's much faster. I dial in for 400 & 500 meters. For a smallish target at distance, the reticle on the NF wins big if dialing in is not an option.
Shooting the CQB 3-Gun on Sunday we had 90 Yd steel from difficult shooting positions (including weak side shooting thru a port). The huge eye box on the PST is just outstanding! I pre-dialed -1 MOA (negative) to put me closer to true POA/POI, which was handy, but it was not really needed. I think you could do the same on a capped turret.
I think you hit the nail on the head -- If the adjustments on the HS prove to be precise, numbered, and finger adjustable, that would be a huge plus.
from pics, it looks like they are just a smaller, capped version of the tall turrets. in that case, I don't see a downside to keeping it capped for distances where dialing is not needed and uncapped when it is.
the specs page claims 90MOA of adjustment with 24MOA per revolution. do you consider that sufficient?
I think you hit the nail on the head -- If the adjustments on the HS prove to be precise, numbered, and finger adjustable, that would be a huge plus.
from pics, it looks like they are just a smaller, capped version of the tall turrets. in that case, I don't see a downside to keeping it capped for distances where dialing is not needed and uncapped when it is.
the specs page claims 90MOA of adjustment with 24MOA per revolution. do you consider that sufficient?
Absolutely. 45 MOA Up adjustment is two or three times more than you will ever need for a 4x scope on an AR.
My PST is on my 14.5" LW build right now. With 55s at ~2,700 fps zeroed at 200M, my 500 Meter adjustment is 12.5 MOA. (This has been verified on the range.) For the 18" SPR with 77 SMKs, + 11 MOA gets me to 500M.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi
I would be a little concerned with the availability of the HS due to what has happened in Japan. (The glass and some other parts are Japanese made.) I think the HS scopes are due to come out this summer, but that's from memory. Hopefully (and most likely) the Japanese people and economy will have this behind them in good time.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/shootist87122/AR15/DD145-PST03012010.jpg
I concur with shootist. With Hornady 55gr training ammo out of my Lilja-Nordic 16.5" barrel, with my 219 yard (200m) zero, I am up 12 MOA at 500 yards; plenty of adjustment on these scopes.
Absolutely. 45 MOA Up adjustment is two or three times more than you will ever need for a 4x scope on an AR.
My PST is on my 14.5" LW build right now. With 55s at ~2,700 fps zeroed at 200M, my 500 Meter adjustment is 12.5 MOA. (This has been verified on the range.) For the 18" SPR with 77 SMKs, + 11 MOA gets me to 500M.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi
I would be a little concerned with the availability of the HS due to what has happened in Japan. (The glass and some other parts are Japanese made.) I think the HS scopes are due to come out this summer, but that's from memory. Hopefully (and most likely) the Japanese people and economy will have this behind them in good time.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/shootist87122/AR15/DD145-PST03012010.jpg
thanks for the reply. It never occurred to me that the problems in Japan might affect us in this manner - I sure hope it doesn't...
good looking stick, btw. that's almost exactly how I have mine setup :D
I concur with shootist. With Hornady 55gr training ammo out of my Lilja-Nordic 16.5" barrel, with my 219 yard (200m) zero, I am up 12 MOA at 500 yards; plenty of adjustment on these scopes.
cool! now all I need to do is decide to jump on the available PST, or put in my pre-order for the HS. my desire is for the HS but my gut says get it while you can...
any word on a release date for the HS?
is anyone taking pre-orders?
any word on a release date for the HS?
is anyone taking pre-orders?
We're expecting to have them in mid to late June, but that's not a guarantee. That's just the best info we have right now.
I don't anticipate any delays due to the earthquake. All our sources were not in the area where that happened, fortunately.
As far as the tracking goes on the turrets I've tested them thoroughly and they are right on the money.
-Sam
thanks Sam. I'm saving my pennies, this will give me time to gather just a few more...
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