View Full Version : "super" Dave Harrington class in Ohio
Outdoor Specialties has invited Dave Harrinton do an advanced class of pistol and rifle on november 4-5/2006
since most of u know who Dave is i wont post a long resume' suffice to say he and l.a.v. are some of the best in the world. they come from the same background.
the class will be in advanced tactics fire and movement
it will consist of 2 long days and 1 nite till midnite approx.
trainig skill for the class need to be intermediate or above
this will be a "hot"range and extensive fire and tactics both stationary and moving.
this is an very serious training for the serious operator.
previous experience with the the following would be good
ken hackathorn
gunsite
outdoor specialties
larry vickers
dave harrington
military and l.e. background on a case by case basis pls ask
1500 rds of carbine
1500 rds of pistol
all of the usual gear
load out upon registration +some additional gear.
due to dave's trg regimen this class is only taking 18 people
12 have signed up so far and its not been posted publicly till now.
it will be 1 group with 9 on each relay
the class will not be split up on squads as in the past
dave will be the main instructor for all trainig
2 ex military spec ops will be assisiting.
it is not on the web site yet will not be up for a few more days.
pls contact us direct at this time
fee: 475.oo includes a 25 rds of frangible ammo needed (we will sell at our cost). refunded if frangible not used or available
primary sponsers will be
surefire
peltor
underarmor
vltor
petzl
the usual gift bag of vendor items and t-shirts will be a part of the class.
www.odspec.com
1-800-508-1040
odspec@adelphia.net
good luck
b.l. farley (jjw)
jjw wanted me to let everyone know that he has just one open seat available for the "Super Dave" class.
Please feel free to contact him if your interested.
If you're within driving distance take this class. SDH is the real deal. You'll work your tail off and wish for more.
b.l. farley (jjw)
b.t.w. neat site glad i found u guys thanks for having me
I guess this is where the folks go after they get kicked off the "professional" board;)
See you there.
If you're within driving distance take this class. SDH is the real deal. You'll work your tail off and wish for more.
Ain't that the truth!
I hope we can get him back to the VA area some time soon.
Ain't that the truth!
I hope we can get him back to the VA area some time soon.
That sounds like a great idea.
heads up guys
"4 spooks" just got re-deployed a month early so we have 2 slots for "super daves" ohio class
nov 4-5 mid ohio canton area.
1500 rds of pistol
1500 rds of rifle
2 looong days the range
set up calls for 24 paper -20 steel
same range both days dave doing all the instruction with 2 support ex spec ops guys
if any one is interested
www.odspec.com
1-800-508-1040
not on the web site as it filled up too fast to post
jjw
due to 2 govt guys getting deployed we have 2 openings available again
since the class has been filled for several weeks now this is unusual and short notice. if anyone is interested please go to our web site. the dates are nov. 4-5/2006 mid ohio. canton area. we are only taking 20 people and no more.
www.odspec.com
scroll to training site and read the info if interested
good luck
jjw (b.l. farley
Hope you filled the slots. We're hosting S. Dave for this program in Atlanta 11/18-19. Be prepared to be fed with a fire hose. :D
Is anyone going to post an AAR?
To say the guy is intense, is an understatement. Had I known what I was signing up for, I wouldn’t have, but I’m glad I did. The class was good, I learned more than I could absorb, but I didn’t really consider it much “fun”, and there was no relaxing. I’ve trained with Rogers, Hackathorn, and a couple other not so well known, and the physical and mental intensity level of this class isn’t even in the same zip-code, no, Its not even in the same hemisphere.
During drills, he’s everywhere and doesn’t miss ANYTHING. He brought a couple things to my attention that I don’t know how the **** he noticed. Lets just say he never had to tell me the same thing twice.
There are no laid back funny stories, no down time, when the carbine is slung up YOU MAINTAIN POSITIVE CONTROL OF THE WEAPON! – meaning your hand is on the pistol grip and your finger indexed over the trigger guard, ready to go. And YOU ALWAYS MOVE WITH A LOADED WEAPON. And when you have positive control – make damn sure you are watching your muzzle.
IMO, as a “teacher”, I think Super Dave, not so much. He’s too hyper, too involved, and talks way too much. He (admittedly) goes off in tangents, that my little attention span could not follow(I wasn’t the only one). He would do everything except get to the point, and when he got to the point, you completely forgot what the **** the point was supposed to be. Luckily, during individual communication, he made the point very clear. As I said above, he never had to tell me the same thing twice.
You’ve heard the saying those who “can’t”, teach.
Well, Super Dave can actually “do”. I have never seen an instructor do as much shooting as Dave. Dave can shoot, and then it was up to us to follow his example. Well, his example as a guideline and it was somewhat at our discretion to MAKE A ****ING DECISION.
You should already know what to do because when its time in Dave’s class, you better be ready to MAKE A ****ING DECISION!. There is no spoon feeding how to do anything.
Not much to say that can explain what it was like. Pay total attention at all times, and everything is important. In regards to the little things, there are no little things
It was obvious to me I lacked in the shooting while moving gunteam drills, and Dave let me know it when he caught me looking everywhere except watching my team members six. Information overload – walking backwards in the dark against someone I don’t knows back, while moving towards another team coming from the opposite direction also shooting at the same targets; I had reached my comfort level and saturation point by then for the day.
It was a lot, compressed into what seemed like a little time. It was two full days, and nights. Lots of pistol shooting, which was excellent and what I was hoping for. I put 1500 rounds through my pistol, over 1000 rounds on the first day. I took 25 1911 mags and still had to stuff mags at every opportunity. My RRA ran like a champ. I got several nasty looking bruises on my inner thigh, but I’m now able to chamber a round 1 handed (even with Novaks).
My suppressed SBR ran like a champ. Steel at night, 25yds away is pretty cool – like little fireworks with all the sparks. I did pretty good except for the team stuff, and I never got the level of individual attention some others received, or as Dave would say – “Gave him the opportunity to excel” .
At the end of the class I got a “Good effort dude” from Super Dave which I really appreciated. Little things I picked up that I forgot, have been popping into my head ever since I left the range, so I’ll have bunches to pull from my tool box next trip to the range.
It was a pretty wired together group, several SWAT guys who worked well together. I don’t recall a single weapon going down, or insufficient gear issues. Everyone in this class had more than a couple classes from the other “big guys”. When he told everyone to raise their carbine, then drop it on the stones no one hesitated. All knew the difference between a toy and tool. I also noticed the lack of extensive cool guy gear. In the other classes, there were usually several who are dressed up in every piece of gear they can attach to themselves. These guys just seemed to be wearing what they needed.
By the way, stay away from his truck.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/sdpic1.jpg
It was cold, but luckily no wind. Most all of the shooting was done in a pit with almost 360 degrees of blasting berms.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/sdpic3.jpg
The pit was interesting at night with no wind. The smoke just hung and it was pretty hard to see.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/coffee.jpg
http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/sdpic2.jpg
I dont rememeber what hes saying to me, but I can tell by his posture its a good conversation(no eye contact). It probably started with "What you got goin on there dude?".
http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/rubberbands.jpg
So thats why I had to bring a bag of rubber bands.
http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/pic10.jpg
Attempt to go through SD, or go around? MAKE A DECISION!
http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/backwards.jpg
Sure looks simple....
http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/sdtruck.jpg
http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/tshirt.jpg
Souviner T-Shirt
Good review Steve and would have to agree with what you said.
Hey BL, I heard you DIDN'T stay away from the truck. :D
C4
P.S. Oh, forgot to mention Steve that you were only 15 minutes from my shop! Give a brother a call the next time your in town!
BL may have gotten close, but one guy sat on the bumper, once.
Had you only been 5 minutes away, it still would have been too far. After each day I was drained:cool:
Thanks for the post. Dave's mellowed over the last couple of years believe it or not. :D
We've got him in Atlanta next weekend. I know he'll be bringing the firehose.
Definitely stay away from the truck. ;)
BL may have gotten close, but one guy sat on the bumper, once.
Had you only been 5 minutes away, it still would have been too far. After each day I was drained:cool:
Roger and understand on being drained.
So someone actually sat on the bumper??? :eek: I am surprised no one go hurt. :D
C4
Great review and pictures Steve!
You don't realize it yet but you'll be remembering things for a long time to come. While SD's style is...odd, you learned more than you realize and in a twisted way that proves that he's a very good instructor. I was still mulling that class over three-four weeks later.
I loved the physical aspect of his class and believe it or not I had fun in a sadistic sort of way :D
I look forward to another opportunity to train under SD.
moving gunteam drills [...] walking backwards in the dark against someone I don’t knows back, while moving towards another team coming from the opposite direction also shooting at the same targets
Sounds mighty unsafe. I don't know if this class was advertised as suited for civilians, but am I the only one who thinks that team (larger than two) drills make absolutely no sense in a civilian class? "Civilian" may be defined here as a good portion of law enforcement officers too.
IMHO all it does is promote unsafe movement and muzzle control while people stumble around in teams. Weapon handling and tactics may be different from the things suited for the lone "operator". So, even with this being an advanced class, I would rather go home and have practised the techniques suitable for me under a watchful eye longer, than learn dozens of techniques of very limited value to me.
Besides- and this is a general observation from social/group psychology- forming a team with guys who will never act together is a waste of time since the experience can't be transfered 1:1 to other teams or generalized.
The class was requested by a local SWAT team. Most all the class was LE or Military. I was just along for the ride. The team members in the class I'm sure appreciated and will apply what they learned.
I totally agree with you on team training, and the application of, for folks(like me) who have no team.
Cato - It sounds like the class Steve attended was similar to the one I took.
We had a SEAL Team guy, a Force Recon Marine, a .gov guy and several Police officers. They probably got a lot out of the team stuff and those of us like me, Grant and yrac still learned something that we might not otherwise learn. Whether or not we'll ever use those skills isn't important; trigger time is trigger time, it's all GOOD.
That's why it's important for the host to vet out the students. Instructors at this level are very good at assessing the skill level of the students. As well any student that doesn't feel comfortable with a drill should cowboy up and take a break. I've seen guys sit out drills they weren't comfortable doing and nobody knocked them for it or felt less about them for doing it. Quite the opposite actually.
Here lies the key to taking the "right" class for you. In today's training world quagmire, you have some folks teaching stuff they have no business teaching, and students taking classes where they don't belong. I am seeing this more and more. Lifetime civilians using some sort of hobby cop background getting a nomex flight suit and teaching "advanced hostage rescue" courses, and Joe average guy taking "Advanced SWAT operator" classes.
Tailor the class and the instructor to each other. There are some guys who do a great job training civilians with carbines and some truely sensible, applicable skill sets with a variety of weapons. Clint Smith comes to mind here. Someday I hope to be healthy enough to take a Super Dave class. From everything I have heard from Dave's circle is he is a lousy choice for a civilian looking to take a class, but REALLY good for veteran professional trigger pullers to finely hone the basic skills they already have. Good AAR, sounds like a tough class, but worthwhile, and rewarding in being able to make it through.
Sounds mighty unsafe. I don't know if this class was advertised as suited for civilians, but am I the only one who thinks that team (larger than two) drills make absolutely no sense in a civilian class? "Civilian" may be defined here as a good portion of law enforcement officers too.
IMHO all it does is promote unsafe movement and muzzle control while people stumble around in teams. Weapon handling and tactics may be different from the things suited for the lone "operator". So, even with this being an advanced class, I would rather go home and have practised the techniques suitable for me under a watchful eye longer, than learn dozens of techniques of very limited value to me.
Besides- and this is a general observation from social/group psychology- forming a team with guys who will never act together is a waste of time since the experience can't be transfered 1:1 to other teams or generalized.
unsafe i dont think so
if people who read the thread were intimdated they stayed away. steve did a great job in spite of what he says. hell even the cops were a little put off by dave. having known and shot with him for years i knew what was coming. hi speed ? u bet.
every 1 in the class was vetted by myself and t.d.l. before he left the country. we knew exactly who was coming. steve was qualifed enough that he was only 1 of 3 civilains in the class of 19. he was never anything but a pro.
also the specifics of what was going to be taught were CLEARLY STATED in the offering. hi speed -- big boy rules apply. no 1 was at the school that we did not know the qualification of. was it fast sure. it was offered as such. go back and read my original post. if was not for kids. it was for serious players only not wannabe's and safe queens toys.
again it was not for everyone.
best
jjw (b.l. farley)
p.s.
GRANT. read the business card in the envelope tks for the heads up.
Sounds mighty unsafe. I don't know if this class was advertised as suited for civilians, but am I the only one who thinks that team (larger than two) drills make absolutely no sense in a civilian class? "Civilian" may be defined here as a good portion of law enforcement officers too.
IMHO all it does is promote unsafe movement and muzzle control while people stumble around in teams. Weapon handling and tactics may be different from the things suited for the lone "operator". So, even with this being an advanced class, I would rather go home and have practised the techniques suitable for me under a watchful eye longer, than learn dozens of techniques of very limited value to me.
Besides- and this is a general observation from social/group psychology- forming a team with guys who will never act together is a waste of time since the experience can't be transfered 1:1 to other teams or generalized.
I think Civy's should get more used to looking down the business end of a weapon. The simple reason is that when is hits the fan, that is what is going to be happening. If the Civy shooter is not comfortable with this, then they shouldn't be in these types of classes.
I am now to the point that if someone isn't shooting from behind me, I get nervous. :D
C4
unsafe i dont think so
if people who read the thread were intimdated they stayed away. steve did a great job in spite of what he says. hell even the cops were a little put off by dave. having known and shot with him for years i knew what was coming. hi speed ? u bet.
every 1 in the class was vetted by myself and t.d.l. before he left the country. we knew exactly who was coming. steve was qualifed enough that he was only 1 of 3 civilains in the class of 19. he was never anything but a pro.
also the specifics of what was going to be taught were CLEARLY STATED in the offering. hi speed -- big boy rules apply. no 1 was at the school that we did not know the qualification of. was it fast sure. it was offered as such. go back and read my original post. if was not for kids. it was for serious players only not wannabe's and safe queens toys.
again it was not for everyone.
best
jjw (b.l. farley)
p.s.
GRANT. read the business card in the envelope tks for the heads up.
Hey BL, stay away from the truck! :D
And for those of you that took SD's class via 10-8: "There is no spoon!"
C4
Boy you kids can complicate things. I wrote my AAR on the “dramatic” side to get the point across to folks that “Super Dave’s” class is not like any other class I have been to or heard of. Anyone who knows me or follows my posts, knows I am far from anything “tactical”. The “Warrior Mindset” isn’t even a twinkle in the back of my mind.
I honestly believe a majority of the “Tactical Carbine” courses being offered are nothing more than an e-command fantasy camps. An excuse for all the gear qeers to dress up in their latest combat costume and pretend they are training for TEOTWAWKI. They’re having fun, and may actually learn a thing or two.
I hope some of the e-commandos read my AAR and realized they are better off not signing up for a Super Dave class.
I hope some of the people who carry guns for a living read my AAR and jump on the opportunity if they get the chance to train under Super Dave.
Thank you BL for getting me into the class, I don’t regret it for a minute. It was well worth the time and money.
If I heard of an advanced Super Dave carbine class, I would have no interest in attending. I don’t carry a carbine for a living, and it would obviously not be a class for me.
If there is ever an advanced Super Dave handgun class, I’d be the first in line. I carry a handgun every day.
Again, Thanks BL for the class and if anyone has any specific questions shoot me an email steve@adcofirearms.com and I’ll be happy to help clear up anything else.
I totally agree with you on team training, and the application of, for folks(like me) who have no team.
Awwww, I'm not on your team? :(
:D
Awwww, I'm not on your team? :(
:D
If it comes to defending our "turf" I'll be on the roof covering you on the ground. :)
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