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[davidjinks]

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[Iraqgunz]

Well let's see. You have asked a million questions. I'll try and address a few.

1. The gas systems (intermediate, carbine and rifle) have to do with the length of the gas tube, gas system and it's location.

Rifle is the longest, followed by mid length and carbine. Not sure what the deal is with intermediate.

2. Yes, you can pull down on the locking lever on the buttstock and simply remove it and slip a SOPMOD in place.

3. You really don't need a 16" and 18" unless you are simply looking to spend money. The 16" will do every bit as much as the 18". I would actually ditch the 18" for a 16".

4. 12.5" is cool, but there are only limited configurations available on the market that are quality.

As for all of the other stuff it has been covered so many times here. I suggest that if you are new to the AR you start out slow and then figure out what you need.


I have 3 builds I am trying to complete. Everything is pretty much ironed out as far as pieces and parts go.

My confusion is with barrels and their gas systems. I have read about a zillion threads here in regards to this and it seems everything is melting together…

Construction
Twist
Coating
Threads
Muzzle devices
Types of rifling
Chrome
SS
Etc…

Currently I have a MK12 MOD1 (Built by HCS). It uses the Douglas SS barrel.

My main concern is durability/corrosion resistance.

Accuracy, for me, is getting whatever hits I can, where they need to be, to do what they're intended to do. I'm no .5 MOA shooter and I don't stay at a Holiday Inn.

Would it be better for me to go with a CM barrel over a SS barrel?

Noveske has peeked my interest in barrels but I'm still not sure.

Length of the gas systems are another one that has blown my mind.

Carbine
Mid Length
Rifle
Intermediate
Etc…

I really, honestly, couldn't tell you the difference with them other than the length of tubes they use.

My 3 builds are basically going to work like this:

18" Long Range application
12.5" Room Range application
16" Whatever Range application

For the 18" barrel, I have seen about a million different style gas lengths. I would ASSume that for the 18" barrel I would want to use a rifle length gas system. For the other lengths of barrels I would ASSume to use a carbine length gas system.

What are the real differences in the gas systems?

What are the benefits of the most common systems? I.E. Carbine vs. Mid Length, Rifle vs. Mid Length, Rifle vs. Intermediate Length

What is the recommended length gas system for the length of barrels I have listed for my builds?

If it helps any…I am going to be running these weapons suppressed.

I'm kind of a simple person when it comes to guns. I just want these builds to go smooth and without headaches. KISS is preferable when it comes to this type of stuff.

One last subject…SOPMOD stock.

If I have a "Mil Spec" RE, can I just buy the stock and put it on?

I appreciate any and all advice that you share with me.

[davidjinks]

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[ZRH]

I always thought "Intermediate" was the same as "Midlength." :confused: I may be wrong, there are no standards for anything except carbine and rifle in my mind.

You really don't specify a range or what kinda optic so. The difference between 16" and 18" is almost nothing for velocity. 18" barrels tend to be more for marksmanship (stainless, 1/7, air-gauged, HBAR, what have you) because of the popularity of SPR builds. 18" is a whatever range gun, as is 16" (and arguably 20"), construction is the key rather.

There is something to be said for having what you want though. -.-

[Iraqgunz]

Look no further than this-

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-12-Upper-Receiver-Group-s/129.htm


Noveske has an 18" barrel with an Intermediate length gas system.

Not looking to just spend money on the builds. I like the 18" barrels as well as the 16" barrels. That's more of a preference thing than anything with me. Variety, the spice of life.

To be completely honest, I'm not looking for a "cool" factor. I had my days of being cool toting a rifle and blowing stuff up for a living.

What would your recommendation be for a quality setup for a 12.5" rifle?

Not new to ARs. New to building, but not new to the AR. As I stated, all the information that I am reading is sort of melting together. One of the reasons I asked specific questions pertaining to my particular needs/wants.

[bp7178]

Mid-length and intermediate as not the same.

The intermediate gas system is 11.5" from the receiver, and is similar to the KAC system.

It is longer than a mid-length, but shorter than a rifle.

It gives you the same barrel/gas ratio as running a 14.5" mid-length, but on a 16" barrel. So all the joy of a soft shooting system, w/o the pain of a fixed muzzle device.

[davidjinks]

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[jonconsiglio]

You're over thinking this. It sounds like you are new to AR's. I read a similar thread where a guy was getting into precision shooting and went way overboard. Much of that stuff ended up for sale later.

What do you think will be the difference between 16" and 18"? Seriously, I want to know where you're coming from here. I have a couple 16's that do everything I need, though I have a few others in different lengths as well. I can easily make hits all day long at 500 with my SR15's at 16".

If I were you, I'd start with a nice 16" like the KAC SR15, a BCM 16" middy or maybe a Noveske since it sounds like you'll be shooting at distance. At that point, SBR a lower and while you wait for the next 3 or 4 months for your paperwork, you'll have a better idea of what you need and want and what the hell the differences are.

I'd be amazed if you buy a 16" and 18" and can actually see much difference. If you get a SS Noveske 16", you'll be more than covered. Personally, I don't worry about using AR's for serious precision, so I'm perfectly happy with a 2 MOA gun.

Having said all that, have you ever shot long range before, on a regular basis? If not, it won't matter what you own until you get a lot of time behind the gun. I understand the want for an SBR. They're fun and a little easier to work with in tight areas, plus they can be very accurate. Remember, longer does not mean more accurate, it means longer. It CAN lessen the hold off a bit, but it won't necessarily give you better groups. Barrel construction and material is what matters here.

One at a time, buddy. Maybe try the 16" and just get a second upper to see what you think while waiting for your stamp. Seriously, I understand the want of different guns, I've gone through many of them, but only kept a few.

Personalizing each gun to your needs is much more important than owning a number of different guns. I probably have about $3,500 to $4,000 into each SR15 alone. I'd much rather spend $8,000 on two guns and have them exactly how I want than $8,000 on 4 SR15's and not have them exactly how I want them. Get one, 16" I'd suggest, and set it up exactly how you want. From there, you can determine how the next should be set up AFTER you become proficient on that one, if you end up needing another at all. 500 yards is not that extreme, forget the 18" and spend $40 on KAC's BulletFlight, for example.

EDIT - I somehow missed that you have a Mk12. Why are you building another 18"? For me, I like the mid length gas system on 14.5" guns, KAC's "Battle Rifle" intermediate gas system on 16" guns and rifle length on 18" guns. I've starting running the VLTOR A5 and love it. I use a Sopmod and CTR's with it. Carbine gas systems for me are for less than 14.5" guns now.

For barrels, all of mine are chrome lined. I have no need for stainless precision barrels. All are 1:7 twist. I use a Triple Tap brake on one of my SR15's, though I'll be picking up two more relatively soon. I like the BattleComp as well. These fit my needs, but obviously not everyone's. Again, a properly set up 16" will do everything it sounds like you want it to.

Enjoy whatever you get.

[davidjinks]

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[jonconsiglio]

I know you're not new, I apologize about that! I read through it and somehow missed that, even missed the Mk12 at first.

I've been dealing with the "new guy going overboard" thing this week here at home so I'm in that mindset.

I honestly believe the 16" will serve you just as well as the 18 or even better, BUT, if you are doing it just to do it and not expecting a huge difference, I can't argue with that.

I like the Mk12 build for what they are. In this situation, may I suggest getting a mid length or intermediate 16" and seeing how that feels for you before going for another 18"? I understand the SBR thing, and would go 11.5". I'm working on. 10.5" (Mk18) because I want one, not because its so much better than the 11.5".

I don't know, lately I've been on this clone kick and wanting to do a few. I saw Stick's pic of his 3 clones and am liking it.

As for the gas system lengths, I like to use the longest I can for the barrel length, like I mentioned above. It's a very nice difference. Adding the A5 RE and a BC or T3 makes an even bigger difference and much easier for follow up shots.

I would stay with the 1:7 barrels. They stabilize longer (read heavier) bullets bette and since most match ammo is 75 to 77, it makes sense to go with that for your needs.

Chrome lined is what I stick with. They say it's slightly less accurate than non-lined, but to me it's not worth the trade off in maintenance and durability in ARs, plus I can't really see it since I hardly ever shoot for accuracy unless I'm testing out a new gun or optic or zeroing. If I want better accuracy, I'd go SS.

Given the choice, I'll go cold hammer forged. I have no problem going with the standard barrel though, like when BCM is out of stock on their 14.5" but have standard barrels.

For coating, whatever it comes with (as long as it's a reputable manufacturer) I'm content. I've had fine results with standard mil-spec phosphate coatings, though one of my SR15's has a good bit of surface rust. It's not damaging the barrel though, so I just wipe it down and keep an eye on it. I'm sure IonBond would be nice as I had a Nighthawk done in that finish and it's very durable, a bit more-so than Duracoat or Cerakote.

The gas system though is an important part to me. You'll find it's softer shooting, can be more reliable and has a longer life. I can't see myself buying another 14.5" or 16" with a carbine gas system.

If you don't know, with fixed front sight posts, a carbine gas gun will use a 7" hand guard, a mid length gas gun will use a 9" hand guard and a rifle length will use a 12" hand guard. Intermediate and KAC battle rifle gas lengths use low profile gas blocks. The SR15, for example, comes with a 10.75" hand guard and it stops at the beginning of the gas block.

I hope that helps a bit. I meant no offense when thinking you were newer than you are.

Jonathan

[jonconsiglio]

Hopefully this can help you understand the gas system differences.

Image linked from this page. Some info on the lower part of that page may help you a bit in understanding the differences.

http://www.ar15barrels.com/prod/operation.shtml

http://ar15barrels.com/tech/pressure-time.gif

[davidjinks]

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