View Full Version : Need guidance - my S&W 442 bites me
A lot. The cylinder release removed a fair chunk from my thumb yesterday. Can I get some grip suggestions? I've got big hands, so I suspect that's a lot of the problem. I know there's a better way, though. I've googled and looked at a few options, but I'm interested in what the membership here has to say.
I'd also like to know if there are any favorite 'smiths out there who can properly smooth and maybe (BIG maybe) lighten the trigger for me. My wife struggles with the trigger weight, and I want her to be able to shoot it well. She's very good with semi-autos and a good shooter in general, but she just doesn't have the finger for the 442. If practice is the best solution, that's fine - I'd like to know that, too.
Other than those issues, it's a great gun. I'm surprised at how accurate the short barrel is. I was shooting 2 inch squares consistently at 7-8 yds. It fits great in a pocket, as well. I prefer this to the .380 offerings I've owned.
willowofwisp
03-20-11, 09:01
Do you mean the cylinder release? If so try and move your thumb over. For the trigger wait another month or two and apex is releasing a drop in trigger kit.
The cylinder release bite is common, especially among the lightweight J frames. If you feel up to it, you can polish the lower edge and corner of the cylinder release, that should cure the problem. If not, any competent gunsmith can defang the latch for you.
Thanks, I may try getting the release re-shaped a little.
Moving the thumb is not that easy for me. It's a bigass thumb... :D
John_Wayne777
03-20-11, 10:40
I would suggest going on the Shooting USA website and looking for the revolver lessons written up by Jerry Michulek. He uses a j frame grip technique that is, in my opinion, the best small gun grip out there. It offers a level of control you just can't get with any other grip. As an added bonus, since using that grip I haven't been bitten by the cylinder release.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
When I got my first J-frame, I got a rude awakening regarding thumb bite. I just started shifting my thumb to the left, and solved the issue.
As for lightening the trigger, check out Nelson Ford in Phoenix. The man does wonders with J-frames (or any S&W wheelgun, for that matter). A friend of mine has a DAO heavy-barrel Model 10-8 .38 that is just slicker than snot, thanks to Nelson. My J-frame is night-and-day better after a visit to his shop, and the turn-around time was pretty good too.
John_Wayne777
03-21-11, 10:01
This is a decent picture of the grip I mentioned:
http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK2/Jerry2-6.gif
Video of Jerry explaining the grip:
http://www.myoutdoortv.com/shooting/shooting-usa/jerry-miculek-revolver-grip'
I modify it slightly by placing my left thumb slightly below the base of my right thumb. This helps ensure clearance when I'm shooting my LCP and helps lock down even further on the 442. This grip is also great for ensuring you can operate the laser button on the Crimson Trace LG-105 grips.
mariodsantana
03-21-11, 12:50
I'd also like to know if there are any favorite 'smiths out there who can properly smooth and maybe (BIG maybe) lighten the trigger for me. My wife struggles with the trigger weight, and I want her to be able to shoot it well. She's very good with semi-autos and a good shooter in general, but she just doesn't have the finger for the 442. If practice is the best solution, that's fine - I'd like to know that, too.
I had this same problem. I was surprised by how easy and beneficial the fix was: lots of dry-fire! When I started dry-firing daily, I would use my EDC semi-auto for 10 minutes in the morning, and the J frame in the evenings. That difficult trigger is a great workout, and keeping an empty 38spl case balanced on top of the gun is pretty difficult at first!
In any case, after a few weeks of daily dry-fire, maybe 3K trigger presses total, I started to suspect that the trigger was lighter. My wife can now pull that trigger with no problem. She still hates shooting that gun, though. I hate shooting it, too, but it's a hell of a good teacher!
A lot. The cylinder release removed a fair chunk from my thumb yesterday. Can I get some grip suggestions? I've got big hands, so I suspect that's a lot of the problem. I know there's a better way, though. I've googled and looked at a few options, but I'm interested in what the membership here has to say.
I'd also like to know if there are any favorite 'smiths out there who can properly smooth and maybe (BIG maybe) lighten the trigger for me. My wife struggles with the trigger weight, and I want her to be able to shoot it well. She's very good with semi-autos and a good shooter in general, but she just doesn't have the finger for the 442. If practice is the best solution, that's fine - I'd like to know that, too.
Other than those issues, it's a great gun. I'm surprised at how accurate the short barrel is. I was shooting 2 inch squares consistently at 7-8 yds. It fits great in a pocket, as well. I prefer this to the .380 offerings I've owned.
Send it to S&W for a factory action job. One of their gunsmiths, Gene, did an amazing job on my 27-2.
This is a decent picture of the grip I mentioned:
http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK2/Jerry2-6.gif
Video of Jerry explaining the grip:
http://www.myoutdoortv.com/shooting/shooting-usa/jerry-miculek-revolver-grip'
I modify it slightly by placing my left thumb slightly below the base of my right thumb. This helps ensure clearance when I'm shooting my LCP and helps lock down even further on the 442. This grip is also great for ensuring you can operate the laser button on the Crimson Trace LG-105 grips.
This grip made all the difference for me, and the trigger pull has definately smoothed/lightened with practice as well. The accuracy of the little barrel is impressive! Love my 442.
Bruce in WV
03-21-11, 16:09
Interesting article about grips for the 442.
http://actionsbyt.blogspot.com/2007/05/sw-j-frame-revolver.html
Also, suggest you look into "Actions by T" (actionsbyt.com). Teddy Jacobson is in your area (Sugarland) and is one of THE 'go to' gunsmiths for smoothing actions and reliability jobs for small street guns.
Lucky Strike
03-21-11, 19:54
I've had Teddy Jacobson do action work on my 642 and my GP100 and the results were great in both.
This is a decent picture of the grip I mentioned:
http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK2/Jerry2-6.gif
Video of Jerry explaining the grip:
http://www.myoutdoortv.com/shooting/shooting-usa/jerry-miculek-revolver-grip'
I modify it slightly by placing my left thumb slightly below the base of my right thumb. This helps ensure clearance when I'm shooting my LCP and helps lock down even further on the 442. This grip is also great for ensuring you can operate the laser button on the Crimson Trace LG-105 grips.
I had seen that picture, but missed the video. I'm going to try that grip and your modification and see how it works. I'm working stupid hours right now, so I can't get to the range, but it seems to be more effective just dry firing. I've been dry firing the crap out of it in hopes to smooth things out a little. It's building up a callous, too. :D
I think I'm going to set up an appointment with Teddy Jacobson, also. I like the idea of talking to someone face to face about what I'm looking for.
Thanks everyone for the advice! http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c250/truthseeker1106/Smilies/respect.gif
My 442 doesn't bother me but then I have a small hand. But my wife's M37 did, and I took the Dremel to the bottom edge.
After all these years and all the miles they're both about as smooth as an old bar of soap. Which is the way they should be...
Just an update on this...
I tried the grip pictured above, and that made a huge difference. I was able to keep it reined in and it quit biting my thumb. I think it still needs some minor tweaking, but it's completely shootable for me now. I wouldn't call it pleasant, but I have a LOT more confidence at this point. The web of my hand is very upset with me today, though. :sad:
A side note - I had the great opportunity to redirect a guy today who wanted to buy this exact gun for his wife "because it looks perfect for a woman to carry". It would be the first handgun she's ever shot. I told him he might want to start her off with a decent auto or a larger frame revolver. Otherwise, it might be the last gun she ever wants to shoot...
Maybe I'm off base, but I'm considering the lightweight J-frames an advanced-level firearm. IMO, you really need to have your crap together to field one effectively.
John_Wayne777
04-03-11, 22:40
There is much wisdom in your post, grasshopper...
The J frame is a no-brainer recommendation for women generally because it's hard to shoot yourself with it and it's simple to use...the thought being that the weaker sex isn't interested in shooting and isn't able to handle a complex mechanical device.
The notion that perhaps she isn't interested in shooting because you've stuck her with a handgun that has painful recoil and that's extremely hard to shoot well seems lost on many.
LonghunterCO
04-03-11, 23:06
I got a 442 from our very own Mr. Grant this past December (to get the S&W rebate). I am really liking it, and echo the accuracy comments. Soon after getting it I was running a bunch of ammo through it to check reliability, pre-carry, and to check some reloads that I was working up for practice ammo. Anyway long story short I pulled up on a milk jug at the base of the backstop (30 yards or so)., and hit it. I loaded it up again and getting about 8-9 of 10 hitting the jug and the misses being so close that the mud comming up from the bullets' impact was moving the jug.
-Thanks JW. I am going to give that grip a try.
tfltackdriver
04-04-11, 09:19
My solution was to swap the boot grip for something that let me get my pinky on the grip. This stopped the revolver from rotating so much in my hand that the cylinder latch ate my thumb knuckle. The added benefits were faster follow-ups due to sight picture coming back in quicker and much better accuracy during rapid shooting.
Some will complain that putting a longer grip on a J-frame decreases its concealability, which is the main design feature of the weapon. If you put a Pachmayr on there -- I'll agree (even if it does make shooting one a dream;) I made my own grips with some target stock blanks and a dremel tool, but I also like the Hogue monogrip and the "J Synthetic Full Size Grip with S&W Logo" you can find on the S&W website.
Wearing it tight to the body, IWB, I always found it comfortable and just as easy to conceal as with boot grips. YMMV. Good luck!
NavyDavy55
04-04-11, 10:08
I put some Pachmayr grips on my S&W 442.
I now have much better control of the recoil, and I can shoot all day without my hands hurting.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/ShipAhoy/My%20guns/4.jpg
This may be hard for you to believe with all of the hype and BS we are subjected to, but plenty of bad guys were stopped and killed before there was +P. Jack Ruby showed this to all the world.
At last check, the MIM thumblatch doesn't give you much room to reshape as it is skeletonized underneath. You could reshape the old machined thumblatches to your heart's content.
GrandPooba
04-04-11, 17:17
does shooting the 442/642 kill the web of your firing hand like it does to me?
I use Jerry's grip technique and it's very controllable and I don't get bit by the cylinder latch. However, the web between the thumb and index finger gets pounded. I am wondering if a rubber grip that covers the metal backstrap (similar to the crimson trace grip, just without the laser) would help
does shooting the 442/642 kill the web of your firing hand like it does to me?
I use Jerry's grip technique and it's very controllable and I don't get bit by the cylinder latch. However, the web between the thumb and index finger gets pounded. I am wondering if a rubber grip that covers the metal backstrap (similar to the crimson trace grip, just without the laser) would help
I installed a CT LG-405 recently. I've had only one range visit with it but my impression is that it beat up the web of my hand worse than my older rubber grip (which I think was a Hogue but I'm at work and can't check.) The "recoil reduction pocket" on the 405 seemed to focus the recoil force into a smaller area so I felt it more, and I don't mean just a little bit. The other possibility is that I may have already bruised my hand or something and was primed to make it worse with the J-frame. When I switched over to my G-19 I had no problem for the rest of the day. It's only one data point but something to consider if you look for another grip.
Bruce in WV
04-14-11, 18:19
Did you take the gun to Teddy? I'd like to get your results - he did a wonderful job on a small 380 for me, and I've got a 442 for my DiL that could use it, too.
Did you take the gun to Teddy? I'd like to get your results - he did a wonderful job on a small 380 for me, and I've got a 442 for my DiL that could use it, too.
Not yet, but I still intend to. My work schedule is kind of nuts right now, so it's been difficult to make any plans. I'll be sure to post an update when I get it done, though.
Jack Ruby showed this to all the world.
That some bizarre thinking.
I agree. Perhaps I should explain my "bizarre thinking". First, it is obvious to me that the discomfort from the 442 has a lot to do with +P ammunition. I've fired a lot of non +P from my various alloy S&W snubbies and to me it was not particularly painful. +P was!
Second, in case you did not know, Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald (JFK's alleged assassin) with a snub nose .38 while on TV, and it was seen by hundreds of millions. Since there was no +P at the time (it had not been invented yet) he probably used a normal for the time load. Especially since there was obviously not a whole lot of recoil. It is easy to find a picture of this on the net and, if you do so, it will be very apparent that Oswald was very uncomfortable.
My point was this. Why this obsession with every possible foot second of velocity and every possible foot pound of energy when it probably won't make a bit of difference anyway? You're beating yourselves up for nothing! A small handgun is a pitifully weak firearm, so penetration and placement are everything. If the bullet does not go in the right place, nothing will do. If it does, anything will do.
I have carried a variety of alloy J frames over the years. I started carrying a S&W Model 38 Bodyguard in an ankle holster as a uniformed LEO some years ago and carried a 442 and later a 642 while working in corporate security. They are excellent BUG's.
However, I have never cared for the 158 gr +P SWC load. I have used and continue to use the load originally known as the Chief's Special load, when it was produced under the S&W ammo name and continue to use it from Federal. It's the standard velocity, 125 Nyclad HP.
I agree that with the 1.8 to 2" barrel, squeezing every FPS is sorta like trying to chase a ghost, either the round will work or it won't in these short barreled, small frame firearms.
I also find the Nyclad 125 grain standard velocity HP to be a good match for new shooters who are trying to learn shooting skills along with weapon control and basic tactics all at once. Without the excessive recoil of the 158 gr +P SWC they can concentrate on overall use / skills building, plus learning a tactical mindset.
Just my .02, YMMV>
Bruce in WV
04-24-11, 07:59
I'm expecting significant smooting, lighter DAO and reduced stacking.
Bruce in WV
05-20-11, 07:07
My granddaughter's S&W 351c .22mag came back from Teddy two days ago with a much improved trigger (DAO 17 pounds and gritty reduced to smooth 10 pounds) and reliability (longer firing pin to replace the short factory one that causes misfires on a rimfire). He installed the Wolf rimfire spring kit, stoned everything (!) in jigs of his own design that maintain the proper angles, and returned it in just a few weeks. We're very satisfied; the price was very reasonable for the full revolver action job ($150) and turnaround time was pretty quick. Still, its a DAO revolver and takes some practice to master. Look at Grant Cunningham's article at the PDN for some great advice on DA trigger management (http://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/articles/handguns/dealing-with-the-double-action-trigger/)
DiL's 442 goes to him next. Shipping costs sucked, but that's a FedEx/UPS issue, not his problem. Highly recommended!
If you're going to send him a gun (or carry it to him if you're in South Texas), do it sooner rather than later. He's getting on in years, is in poor health and who knows how much longer he'll continue to work his magic.
He also does one hell of a job on semi auto handguns. Contact info at actionsbyt.com.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.