View Full Version : Sure Fire Rapid Transition Sights
heartbreakridge01
03-20-11, 20:40
Any one have these and would care to comment on them? My current set up makes my BUIS pretty much useless unless I take off the ACOG.
An Undocumented Worker
03-20-11, 23:52
http://www.surefire.com/DD-RTS-SET
I just took a look, and I gotta say. Thats Badass! Especially for those of us who use ACOGs etc. and don't want an offset miniredot.
Why no one else thought of this before, I have no idea, but I like it.
Find ManBearPig!
03-20-11, 23:59
http://www.surefire.com/DD-RTS-SET
I just took a look, and I gotta say. Thats Badass! Especially for those of us who use ACOGs etc. and don't want an offset miniredot.
Why no one else thought of this before, I have no idea, but I like it.
This is not an old idea, competition shooters have been using offset iron sights for years. However, the fact Surefire is bringing a ruggedized version out for tactical use is interesting, and for many users, could be quite useful.
Cesiumsponge
03-21-11, 00:56
Several manufacturers have sold 45 degree offset short rail segments for a setup like this (or running a mini RDS). It's nice to see an integrated BUIS that has a built in 45 degree cant instead of bolting together two pieces...one less thing to go wrong or work loose. I might consider this product for a USO 1.8-10x equipped rifle now that I've seen such a thing exists.
Great idea. I like this a lot more than my JP offset sights. The only negative I see is that Surefire seems to be charging about $100 more than they are worth imo.
I don't like the A2 rear. Adds to much bulk and complication to it. These are BUIS not National match sights. It would have been better off with a DD or Troy style rear. Probably would have cut down on cost as well.
tnguntoter
03-21-11, 08:19
I wouldn't give Surefire the credit for these. They are competitive shooter Barry Dueck's design. Check out dueckdefense.com
Surefire is just distributing them. There are several other dealers listed on his site.
I'm left eye dominant but shoot right handed. I wonder if I could mount those on the left and not even have to rotate the gun to use them?
Some muthaf**kers are always tryin' to ice-skate uphill...
Or...and I KNOW how crazy this sounds...you could cant the gun so that the sights are over the bore and you have only one axis of holds to remember (for elevation).
:eek:
I don't like the A2 rear. Adds to much bulk and complication to it. These are BUIS not National match sights. It would have been better off with a DD or Troy style rear. Probably would have cut down on cost as well.
I agree completely. It would seem that the entire concept would be for use up close and would therefore negate the need for an elevation adjustable rear sight. The front looks fine but I agree a DD A1 style rear would be simpler in manufacture and operation as well as arguably more robust and less prone to inadvertent changes in elevation and windage. In fact it would seem to me that the standard large aperture would be sufficient.
heartbreakridge01
03-21-11, 12:46
Does any one make any irons like this that do not have the A2 Apature and are a little bit cheaper?
Stay tuned for a similar offering from KAC later this year as well.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
I just picked up a set to experiment with.
Anyone else have any feedback on them yet ?
FYI, Im running them as back ups to a H-1 .
Reagans Rascals
07-23-11, 16:43
They seem like a really good idea in the event of optic failure or for use with high-powered scopes, but I do see a problem. This is a really hypothetical situation that relies on a lot of what if's but, what if you have to transition to weak-side shooting behind a barricade or if you're injured... having the sites offset to the right side wont do any good if you have to suddenly shoot lefty for some reason... just my .02
how about an offset KAC flip up set?
http://www.visualgravy.com/web/sights.jpg
I don't like the A2 rear. Adds to much bulk and complication to it. These are BUIS not National match sights. It would have been better off with a DD or Troy style rear. Probably would have cut down on cost as well.
That's my thinking as well. If the rear was akin to a DD A1.5 or Troy or even LaRue fixed setup I think they'd be about perfect. I think Barry is on to something with the rugged one piece 45 degree setup most definitely, but the A2 rear does bug me.
That said, I will probably be putting a set of these on my OBR whenever I get it. That or the KAC offset micros if I can get my hands on them at that point.
They seem like a really good idea in the event of optic failure or for use with high-powered scopes, but I do see a problem. This is a really hypothetical situation that relies on a lot of what if's but, what if you have to transition to weak-side shooting behind a barricade or if you're injured... having the sites offset to the right side wont do any good if you have to suddenly shoot lefty for some reason... just my .02
That's a really good point....
mcmillanman5
07-23-11, 18:20
I just picked up a set to experiment with.
Anyone else have any feedback on them yet ?
FYI, Im running them as back ups to a H-1 .
Why not just run regular back up sights if using an H1?
Seems like these would work best with magnified optics, jmo.
mkmckinley
07-23-11, 19:46
I haven't used these sights but if I see them on sale somewhere I'll probably pick up a set to try out. I can think of one advantage these might have over an offset T1: they don't fog up. I've been in situations going from cold-outside to warm inside where glass gets obscured by condensation. I can see where having offset BUIS could be an advantage. Another thing to consider is that you could potentially use a tritium front in these and not be distracted by it when using your primary optic.
i run an A2 sight system with a hi powered tac-lite and have no problems with sight picture in subdued or dark lighting conditions. (this does limit dark, subdued, distance shooting though.)
I'm of the "Old school" though: K.I.S.S. :D
the A2 system, at least in my experience, has proven to be rugged, reliable and VERY accurate*. (but then, i was trained using military sights by the U.S. Army)
*if i want to "Drive tacks", or shoot in distances over 300 yards/meters i go to my BA .308 or 22-250 rifles, otherwise, the A2 iron sights work just fine yielding to me, me very adequate, closer in range, hunting/plinking accuracy. :)
Okay, that post had no bearing whatsoever on anything that anybody brought up in this thread.
-It answered no questions.
-It tied in with no other post.
-It in no way even mentioned the topic of the thread to make up for those facts.
-It amounted to "I think A2 sights are great, and I use other guns for shooting at the not-particularly-long range of 300m or greater!"
So, all we have, based on the immediate above, is biographical information; we now know that you l-l-l-love A2 irons, and that you're not a particularly good shot with them, and that you have a reading comprehension headspacing issue. Mantastic.
Don't do that drive-by shit again. Next time, take a moment to actually contribute before hitting the Submit button, or prepare to get it deleted.
Post because you have something to say, not because you feel like saying something.
That's a really good point....
It's a good point, but not a REALLY good one, ( :D ) because there's more than one way to shoot off your other shoulder.
A right-handed shooter can shoot off of the left shoulder by leaving his hands where they are on the gun and simply moving the stock to the left shoulder. If one has any sighting system in the 1 o'clock position, the weapon is naturally prone to cant to the left and put that setup right over the bore.
Why not just run regular back up sights if using an H1?
Seems like these would work best with magnified optics, jmo.
1. I like to try out stuff for myself.
2. If the optic needs dumped or is otherwise opaque (fogged up, broken, shot) these are fast and easy to transition to.
3. I have had issues with the mini Aimpoint I prefer, lower 1/3 mounts, and BUIS where a portion of the large rear peep gets blocked by the bottom of the optic. Its a flat tire, barely. And while that wont stop COM hits inside 15 yards (where you could index shoot anyway) it will **** up precise shots.
4. This would keep my FOV open and give the fastest and surest back ups all around for any concievable reason to use them
My plan for now is to get in some practice with them, do transitions to them ( you guys DO practice going to BUIS outside of class right...........) and run them in the upcoming Jason Falla Pistol/Carbine course we have here in Pittsburgh in September and decide for myself if they fit my needs or not.
I was just wondering if anyone else gave them a REAL try (not some "range report after a big 60 round day at the range) and had feedback on them.
FishingFool
07-24-11, 20:02
Have had mine since April and am enjoying them very much. I've since added the XS white strip front sight and its even easier and quicker to pick up. Other than price I can't see a whole lot of reasons why anyone WOULD NOT pair them up with a scope. The speed at which you can transition from close to far targets is awesome.
I got the 0.08" xs white strip front sight as seen here:
http://www.xssights.com/index.php?nID=sights&cID=Sights&pID=sights&sID=tactical
As far as switching shoulders its not that big of a deal. The cant is not that drastic.
ShawnL ---> I hear you on the fogging. Where I live the relative humidity stays high all the time and it is an issue.
mcmillanman5
07-25-11, 00:20
1. I like to try out stuff for myself.
2. If the optic needs dumped or is otherwise opaque (fogged up, broken, shot) these are fast and easy to transition to.
3. I have had issues with the mini Aimpoint I prefer, lower 1/3 mounts, and BUIS where a portion of the large rear peep gets blocked by the bottom of the optic. Its a flat tire, barely. And while that wont stop COM hits inside 15 yards (where you could index shoot anyway) it will **** up precise shots.
4. This would keep my FOV open and give the fastest and surest back ups all around for any concievable reason to use them
My plan for now is to get in some practice with them, do transitions to them ( you guys DO practice going to BUIS outside of class right...........) and run them in the upcoming Jason Falla Pistol/Carbine course we have here in Pittsburgh in September and decide for myself if they fit my needs or not.
I was just wondering if anyone else gave them a REAL try (not some "range report after a big 60 round day at the range) and had feedback on them.
Thanks for the reply and thoughts.
how about an offset KAC flip up set?
http://www.visualgravy.com/web/sights.jpg
how is that attached?
It's a good point, but not a REALLY good one, ( :D ) because there's more than one way to shoot off your other shoulder.
A right-handed shooter can shoot off of the left shoulder by leaving his hands where they are on the gun and simply moving the stock to the left shoulder. If one has any sighting system in the 1 o'clock position, the weapon is naturally prone to cant to the left and put that setup right over the bore.
is your chin in the way of the stock if you do that?
how is that attached?
look close, and you see 'arms' that wrap over the flattop, also has setscrews that clamp underneath the sights. Sounds weird, works well.
I saw the little arms or fingers on the rail, was wondering what else was present that would make the mount rigid. i guess ill have to see one closer up to understand.
FishingFool
08-10-11, 18:15
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6197/6030766426_63837d07a7.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6184/6030212755_f9f34caf72.jpg
RadioActivity
08-11-11, 02:44
I know some people just plain ol' prefer iron sights, but I must ask:
Is the benefit of these over an offset RDS weight and price? Would there be a reason to use these instead of an offset H1 I am oblivious to?
is your chin in the way of the stock if you do that?
Huh, I didn't catch this in July.... No, because I'm not Jay Leno or Bruce Campbell. My chin is human-sized. :happy:
In those instances, it DOES rest on the back of my right hand, which is still on the FCG. About where my thumb blends into my wrist, and it's more like the front of my chin is in a socket formed by the toe of the stock and the vack of my firing hand.
I know some people just plain ol' prefer iron sights, but I must ask:
Is the benefit of these over an offset RDS weight and price? Would there be a reason to use these instead of an offset H1 I am oblivious to?
If you shoot 3 gun or uspsa multigun matches, you can only have one optic on your rifle in tactical class. The setup you describe would put you in open class... unless you are ready to go with ultra high capacity shotguns, speedloaders for the shotgun, and reddots on the pistol, it is hard to be competitive in open class.
This system was designed by Barry Duek who (among other things) is a pro 3 gunner.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-11-11, 12:23
If it is truly back up sights, I really like it because I could mount a light like an x300 at 12oclock- which is really want it for ambi control and light placement. I'd think most people would use a light more than BUIS.
This would be a great product idea for magpul to come out with at half the price.
Magic_Salad0892
08-11-11, 18:11
I really want the KAC offset sights, at first I hated that type because they always seemed awkward to me, but the KAC sights are so low profile, and still carry all the benefits of the KAC Micro sight system.
... I just can't figure out what I'd do with it. Seems like a must on a precision build.
FishingFool
08-11-11, 18:22
I know some people just plain ol' prefer iron sights, but I must ask:
Is the benefit of these over an offset RDS weight and price? Would there be a reason to use these instead of an offset H1 I am oblivious to?
Weight and iron sights don't fog up. Also 3 gun rules on optics.
I wouldn't give Surefire the credit for these. They are competitive shooter Barry Dueck's design. Check out dueckdefense.com
Surefire is just distributing them. There are several other dealers listed on his site.
Barry Dueck is the director of Surefire's suppressor division.
heartbreakridge01
08-11-11, 20:06
Damn I really like those KAC sights!! I just priced them and WOW....
Paraclete comes
08-29-11, 18:40
I got a set of these bad boys and have not looked back. On our MK11's or even our M40's or the SASS these are perfect. I think our whole platoon should get these. I got rid of both my docters after getting my hands on them. Now don't get me wrong I love Docters and Jpoints but the cost is a bit much and zeroing them can be interesting.
These DD's RTS don't require battery's and everyone and their mother is familiar with how to adjust these to zero. Like someone else mentioned, there super rugged. I mean I will take these to combat and I have no doubt they will take the abuse.
So to answer the original poster, I have them, I use them and I love them. Both at work and at home, Im sure I will buy some more sets and will shoot them at the next few course I go to also to train on them some more. I highly suggest you save a few hundred bucks and try these out.
I've got about 500 rounds thru a set mounted. They work well when you can't have BUIS in the standard position. As J stated, shooting lefty is no issue. I do agree wthat they could have done away with the A2 drum set up and had a slimmer profile.
Voodoochild
03-03-12, 20:26
So you advocate buying shitty chinese airsoft shit?
MidwestRookie
03-03-12, 21:13
I wouldn't waste the money..just say no to chinese knock-offs.
Any one tried the XS XTI sights?
http://www.xssights.com/index.php?nID=sights&cID=Sights&pID=sights&sID=tactical
Failure2Stop
03-03-12, 21:36
Nice......
A few people said they liked the idea but didnt want to risk the $200 or more to try them. So here is a way to try them for less money than dinner and a movie. As far as them being shitty. Put a piece of 7075 in a monarch mill and run the program, then put in a piece of 6061 and run the program. You get the exact same parts just made of different material. 6061 may not be as strong but for consumer use it would be fine, they have been making high end scopes and rings of 6061 for years. Maybe this sight should have a section for consumers to share info with out having to deal with all the B.S. elitism. Not every one has an unlimited budget.
The problem is that it is a RIP OFF of someone else's work, concept, and even their logo. I don't care if it's made out of angel turds, that's not the point, they are literally taking money out of the pockets of those that actually worked to bring them to market at a level of quality that they are willing to put their name on.
It's theft, it's illegal, it's sending money to support those that steal our intellectual property, and it's wrong.
Guess we're just elitist like that.
The problem is that it is a RIP OFF of someone else's work, concept, and even their logo. I don't care if it's made out of angel turds, that's not the point, they are literally taking money out of the pockets of those that actually worked to bring them to market at a level of quality that they are willing to put their name on.
It's theft, it's illegal, it's sending money to support those that steal our intellectual property, and it's wrong.
Guess we're just elitist like that.
Exactly right. Its one thing if someone else decided to make a cheaper version, but to promote a knockoff item that is BS. Its stealing from an american made product and sending dollars overseas, I prefer to keep my dollars local, and to people that deserve them. Not some rip-off of someone elses hard work.
Dueck defence probably gets a licensing fee. That would be a smart business move on their part, follow in the footsteps of magpul. These are probably sold to the asian and middle eastern market for firearms due trade regulations.
Do you have any reason to believe that's true, or is it just a theory of yours.
Headcase650
03-04-12, 00:19
probably
adverb likely, perhaps, maybe, possibly, presumably, most likely, doubtless, in all probability, in all likelihood, perchance (archaic), as likely as not.
This seems to be the business plan for most company's in our global economy. If Dueck Defence isn't licensing this to them then its a bad move and lost revenue on their part.
Ok we get it. Now stay out of this thread.
probably
adverb likely, perhaps, maybe, possibly, presumably, most likely, doubtless, in all probability, in all likelihood, perchance (archaic), as likely as not.
This seems to be the business plan for most company's in our global economy. If Dueck Defence isn't licensing this to them then its a bad move and lost revenue on their part.
Headcase650
03-04-12, 00:33
loving the sensorship!
Failure2Stop
03-04-12, 05:28
loving the sensorship!
And so does our target audience.
Chunky Monkey
10-19-12, 18:47
I wouldn't waste the money..just say no to chinese knock-offs.
Any one tried the XS XTI sights?
http://www.xssights.com/index.php?nID=sights&cID=Sights&pID=sights&sID=tactical
I'm also curious if anyone has tried the XS STI sights? I have a gift certificate for a set of XS sights. Would like to get a set of these and try for 3 gun.
merder inc
11-25-12, 06:25
Great idea. I like this a lot more than my JP offset sights. The only negative I see is that Surefire seems to be charging about $100 more than they are worth imo.
I ordered a set a couple weeks ago. The front sight was full of rust all down into the threads of the sight post. The rear sight leaf had quite a bit of play in it and wouldn't sit flat. I must have gotten a returned item or something. They made it right but I thought it was pretty piss poor. It's a nice setup but a bit awkward with some optics. I do like that you can get a longer sight radius than an M4 or A2 setup.
Fast forward a few months. I purchased a used set of knights armament offset flip up sites. They are great! I prefer them to the surefire set because I do not use them much and they fold so flat when not in use, that they virtually disappear.
Of course like surefire, these are not cheap.
merder inc
11-25-12, 06:42
Nothing good ever is cheap. I haven't known Knight to do anything that wasn't awesome though. I"ll check them out thanks.
RamadiDoorkicker
11-25-12, 06:52
I got a set of these bad boys and have not looked back. On our MK11's or even our M40's or the SASS these are perfect. I think our whole platoon should get these. I got rid of both my docters after getting my hands on them. Now don't get me wrong I love Docters and Jpoints but the cost is a bit much and zeroing them can be interesting.
These DD's RTS don't require battery's and everyone and their mother is familiar with how to adjust these to zero. Like someone else mentioned, there super rugged. I mean I will take these to combat and I have no doubt they will take the abuse.
So to answer the original poster, I have them, I use them and I love them. Both at work and at home, Im sure I will buy some more sets and will shoot them at the next few course I go to also to train on them some more. I highly suggest you save a few hundred bucks and try these out.
I don't know what your occupation is in the military but do you think they would ever get used in the heat of the moment? I know from my experience that there is way too much commotion going on to use iron sites during battle...there is a point when too much flash is too much flash...IMO
Failure2Stop
11-25-12, 08:25
I don't know what your occupation is in the military but do you think they would ever get used in the heat of the moment? I know from my experience that there is way too much commotion going on to use iron sites during battle...there is a point when too much flash is too much flash...IMO
Once properly trained for, yeah, they work. Especially when the other option is nothing at all.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
RamadiDoorkicker
11-25-12, 08:34
Once properly trained for, yeah, they work. Especially when the other option is nothing at all.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
Perhaps as a backup but I can't see someone attempting to use them as an alternative for close quarter engagements when their weapon is set with a magnifying sights. For me, point shooting over the barrel is much faster and as effective than canting to a set of iron sights...idk maybe i'm just full of shit :laugh:
Failure2Stop
11-25-12, 08:51
Perhaps as a backup but I can't see someone attempting to use them as an alternative for close quarter engagements when their weapon is set with a magnifying sights. For me, point shooting over the barrel is much faster and as effective than canting to a set of iron sights...idk maybe i'm just full of shit :laugh:
I prefer the opposite, but either can be effective, depending on the precision criteria. I personally prefer irons in their normal position, but if I have to use a magnified optic that doesn't work in a specific environment, I'd rather have an aiming system than not.
I would encourage you to try it out for a while before making up your mind.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
RamadiDoorkicker
11-25-12, 08:55
I prefer the opposite, but either can be effective, depending on the precision criteria. I personally prefer irons in their normal position, but if I have to use a magnified optic that doesn't work in a specific environment, I'd rather have an aiming system than not.
I would encourage you to try it out for a while before making up your mind.
Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.
I currently use a set of back-up iron sights on the weapon systerms I have that allow it. There is no arguing their use in an emergency. It's just hard for me to see why someone would choose a set of canted iron sights over a micro-aimpoint....
It's just hard for me to see why someone would choose a set of canted iron sights over a micro-aimpoint....
Driving in light drizzle or mist, I noticed what happens to my windshield. I would imagine the same would happen to optics.
Rear offset sights as simple as the DD A1.5 or LaRue BUIS would be perfection.
Travelingchild
11-30-12, 20:01
A while back there was a thread concerning Noveske offsets specifically for troy alpha rails any feed back from the prototypes that went out?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.